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-   -   400 ci (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-performance/3437624-400-ci.html)

bluedawg 03-21-2014 10:20 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1586461317)
Placed my order. No idea on timing. Going thru a buddy of mine, that's an authorized dealer for some performance brands. I started searching Canadian performance parts, not easy. All I really specified non negotiable was the profilers. Listed both the crower and lunati cam with preference to the crower.
Out side of that I left the roller rockers, lifters, timing set, stall converter to his discretion.

Now we WAIT. Almost sick over this, feel like I just jumped over a cliff. Hope it all pans out.
I think once parts start showing ill continue this thread with pics, I'll need help. I've never touched a roller cam before.

I've been through this three times, top end yeah, why do I need a top end, 400" yeah, why do I need a 500 horse 400", blower yeah, why do I need a blower.....Does it ever really end....My name is Blue and I'm an addict...

waljr 03-21-2014 10:22 PM

just thinking aloud (and with someone else's money) would one of these 350- 395/396 stroker kits work with your new cam/head combo if required in the future.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/d...ke-in/3-875-in
i think callies do a 3.875" stroker as well.

bluedawg 03-21-2014 10:22 PM


Originally Posted by waljr (Post 1586463116)
is this still a gap filler till you build a 350?

You know what they say, once you go larger you'll never be satisfied with smaller....sounds so dirty.

bluedawg 03-21-2014 10:23 PM


Originally Posted by waljr (Post 1586464978)
just thinking aloud (and with someone else's money) would one of these 350- 395/396 stroker kits work with your new cam/head combo if required in the future.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/d...ke-in/3-875-in
i think callies do a 3.875" stroker as well.

Cam would need to be a smaller base circle.

waljr 03-21-2014 10:27 PM


Originally Posted by bluedawg (Post 1586464985)
You know what they say, once you go larger you'll never be satisfied with smaller....sounds so dirty.

and I was going to warn you against upsetting the sex fairy or she'll stop leaving it on your pillow....:willy:

bluedawg 03-21-2014 10:29 PM


Originally Posted by waljr (Post 1586465021)

and I was going to warn you against upsetting the sex fairy or she'll stop leaving it on your pillow....:willy:

I wish she would, sucks to wake up with your face stuck to the pillow..

waljr 03-21-2014 10:33 PM


Originally Posted by bluedawg (Post 1586465042)
I wish she would, sucks to wake up with your face stuck to the pillow..

:lol:

vettezobsezzed 03-21-2014 10:42 PM

I'm an addict too, but I've been in a world that only burns diesel for over 10 yrs. I'm really excited about carbs and what not these days.

bluedawg 03-22-2014 12:14 AM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1586465131)
I'm an addict too, but I've been in a world that only burns diesel for over 10 yrs. I'm really excited about carbs and what not these days.

Welcome to the darkside! I think that every one who frequents this forum is an addict of some sorts, ncrs addicts, restomod addicts and horsepower junkies... Were the worst, the guys with track marks.. beats the alternative.

76strokervette 03-22-2014 10:21 AM

Don't forget the steam holes,you'll need them with the factory block.
Maybe ask your supplier to put them in if reasonably priced.
Good luck:thumbs:

vettezobsezzed 03-22-2014 02:42 PM

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...eam-holes.html

Wasn't going to... Check out post #11.

garygnu 03-22-2014 08:54 PM

I love to read these engine build threads .OP consider some block rock to strengthen the bottom of the cylinder bores .I could meet you on the lake of the woods ,and smuggle your heads into Canada for a case of beer .

scottyp99 03-22-2014 10:45 PM


Originally Posted by garygnu (Post 1586471377)
I love to read these engine build threads .OP consider some block rock to strengthen the bottom of the cylinder bores .I could meet you on the lake of the woods ,and smuggle your heads into Canada for a case of beer .

Ya know...I used to think the "horsepower addict" thing was just a joke...but now, we are talking about smuggling things across international borders...maybe we really are addicts!!!:eek:

My brother has it kinda bad. His '97 'vette puts out 400 horsepower at the rear wheels. Nothing to sneeze at, right? Well, he's in the "I need another 100 horsepower" stage of the addiction right now. He just bought a blower.

Me? I've been there, too, many years ago. Thought I had it kicked, but...here I am...trying to save up enough money for some aluminum heads. I keep telling myself that I'll be happy with 250 rear wheel horsepower...but there's a little part of me that laughs hysterically when I say that. You don't just have a few drinks when you fall off the wagon...you go on a bender!

It's better than doing meth, I guess...:thumbs:

Scott

Kacyc3 03-22-2014 11:23 PM


Originally Posted by scottyp99 (Post 1586472153)
Ya know...I used to think the "horsepower addict" thing was just a joke...but now, we are talking about smuggling things across international borders...maybe we really are addicts!!!:eek:

My brother has it kinda bad. His '97 'vette puts out 400 horsepower at the rear wheels. Nothing to sneeze at, right? Well, he's in the "I need another 100 horsepower" stage of the addiction right now. He just bought a blower.

Me? I've been there, too, many years ago. Thought I had it kicked, but...here I am...trying to save up enough money for some aluminum heads. I keep telling myself that I'll be happy with 250 rear wheel horsepower...but there's a little part of me that laughs hysterically when I say that. You don't just have a few drinks when you fall off the wagon...you go on a bender!

It's better than doing meth, I guess...:thumbs:

Scott

its not so much the hp rating as the feel for example 250 hp in these cars isnt enough but 250 rwhp out of a 600# motorcycle is a completely different story.

vettezobsezzed 03-23-2014 12:11 AM

Been about 4 years now since I had to quit motorcycles :(. Flying down prairie roads, telephone poles go by like fence posts! The day I sold it, I took it for one last burn, I kept stopping on the freeway, let a car whiz by, then gun it, and see how far before I'd catch him from a dead stop. I miss it

bluedawg 03-23-2014 02:04 AM


Originally Posted by Kacyc3 (Post 1586472350)

its not so much the hp rating as the feel for example 250 hp in these cars isnt enough but 250 rwhp out of a 600# motorcycle is a completely different story.

250 rwhp on a bike, now that would be main lining.

Kacyc3 03-23-2014 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by bluedawg (Post 1586472947)
250 rwhp on a bike, now that would be main lining.

my addiction for them was never straight line but
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8.../Draggin11.jpg

vettezobsezzed 03-23-2014 01:59 PM

Ahem...
 
Just doing some more searching

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...a-400-a-3.html

I've done (4) 407 (400) builds in the last 2 years. On the dyno, with various head and cam combinations, these engines have put out between 475 to 535 horsepower and 450 to 530 ft/lbs of torque, and they're a complete riot to drive in a street car.

I have never:
Drilled a steam hole
Blown a head gasket
Used a larger radiator
Used a "special" head
Just simple, precise build-ups using stock-block 2-bolt 400s with stock cranks and good heads. Cost is no different than building a good 350 or 383, and the rev limit is based on your valvetrain selection - not the block or crank. An easy, cost-effective way to make a ton of torque and frightening horsepower.

Lars

Page #3 Post #52


Steam holes, I'm not thinking so. Anyone else have a thought?

vettezobsezzed 03-23-2014 02:04 PM

Back to bikes
 
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2c13f8d6.jpg

My old flame.

bluedawg 03-23-2014 06:05 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1586475969)
Just doing some more searching

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...a-400-a-3.html

I've done (4) 407 (400) builds in the last 2 years. On the dyno, with various head and cam combinations, these engines have put out between 475 to 535 horsepower and 450 to 530 ft/lbs of torque, and they're a complete riot to drive in a street car.

I have never:
Drilled a steam hole
Blown a head gasket
Used a larger radiator
Used a "special" head
Just simple, precise build-ups using stock-block 2-bolt 400s with stock cranks and good heads. Cost is no different than building a good 350 or 383, and the rev limit is based on your valvetrain selection - not the block or crank. An easy, cost-effective way to make a ton of torque and frightening horsepower.

Lars

Page #3 Post #52

Steam holes, I'm not thinking so. Anyone else have a thought?

Lars is a mechanical wizard, a rocket scientist(for real). With this being said, if I were building a 400" out of an oem block that was .06" over I'd drill steam holes onlying because the thiner the cylinder walls the greater the chance for hot spots.

cooper9811 03-23-2014 06:42 PM

I debated this myself, (dropped a 406 in my 79 last summer). I've had lots of people I trust tell me the steam holes don't really matter.

I have also heard a ton of stories about steam holes being more critical under something like 3000 RPM, and I suspect application plays a role.

I eventually opted to drill them myself - My application is A DD with good power, not a drag racer or high-RPM car. So it was simply peace of mind for me - My thought was that as long as I'm careful, it can't hurt, and it's far easier to do it now than to have to pull the heads after the motor has been installed. Maybe it wasn't needed - but it sure didn't hurt. Ultimately, I decided GM had them for some reason, and I didn't feel like second-guessing their engineers.

vettezobsezzed 03-23-2014 10:38 PM

I don't know, can't see myself taking a drill to my new heads. I just feels like a disaster waiting to happen

bluedawg 03-23-2014 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1586479835)
I don't know, can't see myself taking a drill to my new heads. I just feels like a disaster waiting to happen

You can have a machine shop drill them cheaply if your uncomfortable doing it.

cooper9811 03-23-2014 11:04 PM

I'll admit it was nerve-wracking until the first one was drilled. Go slow and cautious.
Or as BlueDawg said - most shops will do it, and its not expensive. ON the other hand, I'm not convinced it's required. Like I said, it was just peace of mind relative to cooling.

bluedawg 03-24-2014 01:15 AM


Originally Posted by cooper9811 (Post 1586480039)
I'm not convinced it's required. Like I said, it was just peace of mind relative to cooling.

I agree completely, but thinner cylinder walls will transmit more heat and it won't hurt anything either, I've not know anyone who had issues, but I've read posts on forums wear guys w ere over heating and solved the problem by steam holes, how true that is, I don't know, but it won't hurt and it's easier than tearing down the top end to drill steam holes.

63mako 03-24-2014 10:37 AM

There is a reason GM did it. My understanding is the 400 will generate excessive heat due to the siamesed cylinders design when idling or low RPM for extended periods. The steam holes allow this steam/heat buildup to escape allowing better cooling under certain specific conditions. If you get bottled up in a traffic jam or stop and go traffic in the summer you might want the steam holes. They would not be required or needed under most circumstances but they will not hurt anything. Your overbore increases the odds of cooling issues and bore stability at high temperatures. I would do it because you don't lose anything by doing it and it is a real pain to do it later.

vettezobsezzed 03-24-2014 05:50 PM

Think I'd outsource it anyways. No ill effect for use on a non 400" motor, say a. 350 block, gasket. Would cover hole, so no effect at all?

vettezobsezzed 03-24-2014 05:53 PM

Odds and ends
 
What spark plug should I be buying for this setup?

76strokervette 03-24-2014 07:13 PM

Pro-filer reccomends ngk 4091 or colder.

vettezobsezzed 03-24-2014 11:21 PM

Compression ratio and cam don't have an effect on selection then?
Never really gave it a thought until today

REELAV8R 03-25-2014 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1586488850)
Compression ratio and cam don't have an effect on selection then?
Never really gave it a thought until today

Several things can influence your plug choice. Mostly the heat range. Looking at the specs on that recommended plug it is heat range 7.
http://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=10043

It is a racing plug which means it runs a bit cooler than a street plug and will be less prone to detonation under race conditions, but it will also be more prone to fouling under street conditions.
Also notice that the ground strap is ground 1/2 way back over the electrode. Most plugs are covering the electrode.
These come gapped at .032". This smaller gap is good for high compression and rpms.

I run heat range 5 NGK's on my aluminum heads.
I also grind the ground strap back for more spark exposure to the fuel. I Gap them at .045" or .050". It will misfire if gap is too big for your compression/RPM/ignition system.
My Effective CR due to altitude is 9:1
On hot days or during the peak summer temps this is further reduced by density altitude. This allows me a larger gap without misfire.
With hot intake temps and a hot plug you may get closer to detonation or experience dieseling if the plugs retain too much heat.
What you need is the proper reach for an aluminum head which is 3/4" or 19mm. Then choose a heat range based on your application, street, street/strip, racing. Also consider the temps the engine will be running in hotter outside may need a cooler running plug.
The gap can be choosen based on your compression and the strength of your ignition system.
You may need to experiment to get the best combo.

vettezobsezzed 03-25-2014 10:12 AM

Heat Range

The term Heat Range refers to the speed with which a plug can transfer heat from the combustion chamber to the engine head. Whether the plug is to be installed in a boat, lawnmower or race car, it has been found the optimum combustion chamber temperature for gasoline engines is between 500°C–850°C. Within that range it is cool enough to avoid pre-ignition and plug tip overheating (which can cause engine damage), while still hot enough to burn off combustion deposits that cause fouling.







The spark plug design determines its ability to remove heat from the combustion chamber. The primary method used to do this is by altering the internal length of the core nose. In addition, the alloy compositions in the electrodes can be changed. This means you may not be able to visually tell a difference between heat ranges.



- When a spark plug is referred to as a “cold plug”, it is one that transfers heat rapidly from the firing tip into the engine head, keeping the firing tip cooler.



- A “hot plug” has a much slower rate of heat transfer, which keeps the firing tip hotter.





An unaltered engine will run within the optimum operating range straight from the manufacturer, but if you make modifications such as adding a turbo or supercharger, increasing compression, timing changes, use of alternate fuels, or sustained use of nitrous oxide, these can alter the plug tip temperature, necessitating a colder plug.



A good rule of thumb: use one heat range colder for every 75–100hp added.



In identical spark plug types, the difference from one full heat range to the next is the ability to remove 70°C to 100°C from the combustion chamber.





The heat range numbering system used by spark plug manufacturers is not universal.



For example, a 10 heat range in Champion is not the same as a 10 heat range in NGK nor the same in Autolite.









Some manufacturers numbering systems are opposite the other - for Champion, Autolite and Bosch, the higher the number, the hotter the plug. For NGK, Denso and Pulstar, the higher the number, the colder the plug.



It is not recommended that you make spark plug changes at the same time as another engine modification, such as injection, carburetion or timing changes. Performing too many modifications or tune-ups at once will lead to misleading and inaccurate conclusions if any issues occur (an exception would be when the alternate plugs came as part of a single pre-calibrated upgrade kit).



When making spark plug heat range changes, it is better to err on the side of too cold a plug. Running too cold a plug can only cause it to foul out, whereas running too hot a plug can cause severe engine damage.







From NGK site. There I already learned something for today, can shut Down the brain until tomorrow :cheers:
1 heat range colder for every 75-100 hp added. Any idea where that puts me?

REELAV8R 03-25-2014 11:00 AM

Given that the siamesed cylinders may run hotter I'd start with a 7 heat range in the NGK. If that fouls then move to a 6.

vettezobsezzed 04-06-2014 12:22 PM

Still waiting....
 
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps93e4227b.jpg

Playing around. Found best results with cam 4* retarded, any thoughts?

63mako 04-06-2014 02:14 PM

Don't believe it. Straight up is best. If it needs to be retarded or advanced you need a different cam. Most cams have 4 degrees advance ground in. Did you take that into account? If not that might be what your seeing.

vettezobsezzed 04-06-2014 02:29 PM

Didn't factor that in... Just playing with the DD. I used what specs I had for the parts I ordered. Then I switched back and forth with carbs I have, then played with advance/retard. This is what I got.

That's when I decided I'd better ask the forum.

63mako 04-06-2014 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1586591678)
Didn't factor that in... Just playing with the DD. I used what specs I had for the parts I ordered. Then I switched back and forth with carbs I have, then played with advance/retard. This is what I got.

That's when I decided I'd better ask the forum.

:thumbs:

vettezobsezzed 04-06-2014 11:26 PM

Ok,... I read this today and I was ok with it, but somehow I've got myself mixed up here. If the cam advance wasn't entered, so how should I interpret this, here goes, straight up is +4* and then i retard it 4* and then were @ 0*?

See what I mean... Sometimes I have more ? Than answers

When I -4* on the DD all I did was really put it dot to dot right??

cv67 04-06-2014 11:41 PM


If it needs to be retarded or advanced you need a different cam.
:yesnod:
Just line em up. Those retard/advance marks are off half the time anyway. Keep it simple

scottyp99 04-06-2014 11:43 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1586595380)
Ok,... I read this today and I was ok with it, but somehow I've got myself mixed up here. If the cam advance wasn't entered, so how should I interpret this, here goes, straight up is +4* and then i retard it 4* and then were @ 0*?

See what I mean... Sometimes I have more ? Than answers

When I -4* on the DD all I did was really put it dot to dot right??

This is something that I have wondered about for awhile now, and can't seem to get a straight answer on: If you have a camshaft with 4 degrees of advance ground in, and you install it "straight up", is it advanced 4 degrees or not?:crazy:

Scott

vettezobsezzed 04-07-2014 01:10 AM

Well, I bought a degree wheel... Guess ill figure it ou with you fellas when I got all the parts in my hands

waljr 04-07-2014 02:33 AM


Originally Posted by scottyp99 (Post 1586595456)
This is something that I have wondered about for awhile now, and can't seem to get a straight answer on: If you have a camshaft with 4 degrees of advance ground in, and you install it "straight up", is it advanced 4 degrees or not?:crazy:

Scott

you're giving me a headache, where does the intake center line fall if you ignore the dots?

scottyp99 04-07-2014 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by waljr (Post 1586595894)
you're giving me a headache, where does the intake center line fall if you ignore the dots?

When you advance or retard a camshaft, don't you usually do it by using some sort of offset timing gear? So, you still just line up the dots, don't you? Maybe there is something pretty basic that I am missing here, and I only bring it up because the OP seems to be having trouble with it, as well. Is there a good, comprehensive article on the internet that someone can point us to?

Scott

63mako 04-07-2014 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by scottyp99 (Post 1586596325)
When you advance or retard a camshaft, don't you usually do it by using some sort of offset timing gear? So, you still just line up the dots, don't you? Maybe there is something pretty basic that I am missing here, and I only bring it up because the OP seems to be having trouble with it, as well. Is there a good, comprehensive article on the internet that someone can point us to?

Scott

Two ways to do it. If the cam is ground with 4 degrees advance and you install it with the dots lined up it is 4 degrees advanced. If it is ground without 4 degrees advance or "straight up" and you install dot to dot your "straight up". To advance this cam 4 degrees you need the timing set that marks out 2 degrees, 4 degrees advance or retard on the gears. The cam that is ground 4 degrees advanced and the cam that is ground straight up but installed 4 degrees advanced will be the same. Don't believe desktop dyno on this. The only real way to tell is to build it and dyno it. Then change the advance at the timing set and dyno it again. The degree wheel will confirm timing events as speced on the cam card. Sometimes the grind is off a few degrees. Comp has an explanation of what the effects of advancing or retarding cam will be. I will see if I can find it.

63mako 04-07-2014 08:49 AM

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp

Here are a couple threads that will either clarify this or confuse you even more.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation...ce-ground.html

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271165

scottyp99 04-07-2014 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by 63mako (Post 1586596673)
Two ways to do it. If the cam is ground with 4 degrees advance and you install it with the dots lined up it is 4 degrees advanced. If it is ground without 4 degrees advance or "straight up" and you install dot to dot your "straight up". To advance this cam 4 degrees you need the timing set that marks out 2 degrees, 4 degrees advance or retard on the gears. The cam that is ground 4 degrees advanced and the cam that is ground straight up but installed 4 degrees advanced will be the same. Don't believe desktop dyno on this. The only real way to tell is to build it and dyno it. Then change the advance at the timing set and dyno it again. The degree wheel will confirm timing events as speced on the cam card. Sometimes the grind is off a few degrees. Comp has an explanation of what the effects of advancing or retarding cam will be. I will see if I can find it.

Thanks, 63mako, I had a feeling that was the case. I am now thinking that some folks use the term "straight up" as an expression, meaning to install the cam without any additional advance or retard, regardless of what is ground into the cam itself. Kind of like how many people use the term "deck height" when they mean piston-to-deck clearance. Kind of confusing until someone explains it to you.:thumbs:

Scott

vrob1 04-11-2014 09:42 AM

I installed Trick Flows 23 degree 64cc chambers on my 400 by using .072" tri metal head gaskets...I haven't started it yet however I believe it will work well...quench are will be a little bigger...My combination is 400 / 30 over / 5.7rod / my compression came in a 11.5....as I remember the gaskets are Fel-Pro....there kind of expensive however the only option I found....probably done in the past by them southern boys running 400's on the short track...

68post 04-11-2014 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by vrob1 (Post 1586630552)
I installed Trick Flows 23 degree 64cc chambers on my 400 by using .072" tri metal head gaskets...I haven't started it yet however I believe it will work well...quench are will be a little bigger...My combination is 400 / 30 over / 5.7rod / my compression came in a 11.5....as I remember the gaskets are Fel-Pro....there kind of expensive however the only option I found....probably done in the past by them southern boys running 400's on the short track...

Unless your pistons are above the deck you'd be better off running proper quench even tho' the compression will be slightly higher !

The loss of .2 compression will not make much difference , but the loss of quench certainly will.

vrob1 04-11-2014 02:22 PM

400 ci
 
as I remember compressed gasket difference from .050" standard blue to a .072" tri metal was around .018" gain in quench area...My pistons are Weisco fordgings that came in around .006" under the deck , so the total quench area should be around .024" piston to head...so whats the total increase from stock .010" to .015" approx.....I'm hoping to run half 110 and half premium...and if i'm in a bind very little less than 89....I have installed FAST 2.0 E/Z so I should be able to run E85 with the program....and dial back the spark with the FAST map or manually if necessary...Comp hyd roller that's pretty high lift .485" / .490" set at 113 deg......so it should get a really good gulp and idle pretty good....we'll see how it goes....if it's a problem there's always another option...the key here is no piston to head touchie!....Rob in Detroit

REELAV8R 04-11-2014 02:53 PM

good cam degreeing explanation and photos.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Cams...egreeACam.aspx

68post 04-16-2014 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by vrob1 (Post 1586632801)
as I remember compressed gasket difference from .050" standard blue to a .072" tri metal was around .018" gain in quench area...My pistons are Weisco fordgings that came in around .006" under the deck , so the total quench area should be around .024" piston to head...so whats the total increase from stock .010" to .015" approx.....I'm hoping to run half 110 and half premium...and if i'm in a bind very little less than 89....I have installed FAST 2.0 E/Z so I should be able to run E85 with the program....and dial back the spark with the FAST map or manually if necessary...Comp hyd roller that's pretty high lift .485" / .490" set at 113 deg......so it should get a really good gulp and idle pretty good....we'll see how it goes....if it's a problem there's always another option...the key here is no piston to head touchie!....Rob in Detroit


I misunderstood you that quench would be more than stock and you're saying that quench will be down to .024" which is too little. .040 is considered the minimum for a streetbound engine, even alittle less is considered extremely tight.
Piston rock will likely leave witness marks on their tops where they kiss the heads !

63mako 04-16-2014 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by vrob1 (Post 1586632801)
as I remember compressed gasket difference from .050" standard blue to a .072" tri metal was around .018" gain in quench area...My pistons are Weisco fordgings that came in around .006" under the deck , so the total quench area should be around .024" piston to head...so whats the total increase from stock .010" to .015" approx.....I'm hoping to run half 110 and half premium...and if i'm in a bind very little less than 89....I have installed FAST 2.0 E/Z so I should be able to run E85 with the program....and dial back the spark with the FAST map or manually if necessary...Comp hyd roller that's pretty high lift .485" / .490" set at 113 deg......so it should get a really good gulp and idle pretty good....we'll see how it goes....if it's a problem there's always another option...the key here is no piston to head touchie!....Rob in Detroit

If your pistons are .006 below the deck and your running a .072 gasket your quench is .078 not .024.

65air_coupe 06-14-2014 04:20 PM

I was faced with a similar quandary pertaining to a SBC400 and a great deal on heads, although mine was for a pair of Twisted Wedge. I had similar concerns about 64cc and too much compression, calculations came out to 10.7:1 with 0.040 gaskets. But the advice I got from those that built many 400s and similar motors was I'd be okay with 93 octane since I was running aluminum heads. And those I purchased already had the steam holes but based on my research, I would have added them anyway.

I also went hydraulic roller, XE282 and did the lifter vally mod to use OEM lifters and dogbones. That kept the cam cost down and I used my existing RPM manifold and Demon carb for more savings. I can tell you it's a beast with best estimates around 525+HP. Stock radiator, electric fan, factory A/C, stays at 180* on the hottest Florida days.

It idles at 850rpm, pulls like a mule from there to 6,000 and will smoke the tires halfway through 3rd gear. Go for it, you'll love it!

vettezobsezzed 06-15-2014 01:03 AM

Project
 
This project isn't dead, just on hold, still a month away from my first pay since I quit my job and went self employed.
Realistically, the driving season is so short here, I don't see myself doing R&R on engine until fall at this point

The car is 35 years old, it might be 36 before the new engine is in, :D

bluedawg 06-15-2014 01:24 AM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1587137205)
This project isn't dead, just on hold, still a month away from my first pay since I quit my job and went self employed.
Realistically, the driving season is so short here, I don't see myself doing R&R on engine until fall at this point

The car is 35 years old, it might be 36 before the new engine is in, :D

I hear ya on the short driving season, I'll get mine out in the middle of winter if the roads are dry. Weres here for you?

vettezobsezzed 06-15-2014 01:51 AM

Northern Alberta. Corvette season is late May to early October. No t top season is late June to late august

Pretty short window, hate to miss any of it.

Can't take it to work or anything like that, so again limited to fine weather, and babysitter availability to get out for a spin.... Lol

I managed to squeeze in 3000 Kms last year.

76strokervette 06-15-2014 09:37 AM

Life gets in the way of projects sometimes.Good luck in your new business!
I have more pictures posted on my build thread of plug to header clearance if you're interested.I'm hoping to get my 400 on the dyno soon if
my schedule and his line up somewhere.

bluedawg 06-15-2014 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1587137331)
Northern Alberta. Corvette season is late May to early October. No t top season is late June to late august

Pretty short window, hate to miss any of it.

Can't take it to work or anything like that, so again limited to fine weather, and babysitter availability to get out for a spin.... Lol

I managed to squeeze in 3000 Kms last year.

Up here in Alaska the season is usually from early to mid April till mid Oct early Nov. I had it out for 5 days in February this year cruising in -6* F, like I said as long as the roads are dry.

vettezobsezzed 06-15-2014 10:59 AM


Originally Posted by 76strokervette (Post 1587138391)
Life gets in the way of projects sometimes.Good luck in your new business!
I have more pictures posted on my build thread of plug to header clearance if you're interested.I'm hoping to get my 400 on the dyno soon if
my schedule and his line up somewhere.

I've been following:thumbs:

vettezobsezzed 06-15-2014 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by bluedawg (Post 1587138623)
Up here in Alaska the season is usually from early to mid April till mid Oct early Nov. I had it out for 5 days in February this year cruising in -6* F, like I said as long as the roads are dry.

We were still getting snow here thru the first week of May, and the snow is always back by Halloween

vettezobsezzed 06-24-2014 01:51 AM

Picked up some pieces today
 
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18ed25e8.jpg

vettezobsezzed 06-24-2014 01:57 AM

Heads weren't in, just as well, only 1 head gasket showed up.

Did it ever feel good to hold those bits and pieces tho, feels real now!:rock:


Thot I'd throw this in for a laugh...
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...psda8c3282.jpg

Been super busy lately, never gonna find time to gear this motor up, weathers been miserable, not even getting any ride time

vettezobsezzed 07-31-2014 12:39 AM

Pro Filer heads showed up today... Can't get a pic up yet, but I'm so stoked. First time in about 10 yrs I just boughtsomethin "just because"

Ok, so step 1 will be install newcam and gear... Retro fit roller, what do I need to watch for, how do I get started, I'm so psyched, :rock:

hugie82 07-31-2014 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1587205203)
Heads weren't in, just as well, only 1 head gasket showed up.

Did it ever feel good to hold those bits and pieces tho, feels real now!:rock:


Thot I'd throw this in for a laugh...
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...psda8c3282.jpg

Been super busy lately, never gonna find time to gear this motor up, weathers been miserable, not even getting any ride time

Did you scare the $hit out of a Pryius?:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

vettezobsezzed 08-26-2014 12:35 AM

Update
Just ordered obx sidepipes of eBay.
Pretty sure I've got a set of proper wheels lined up
Like to get a set of mirrored tops, in the works

Gonna be a hole new car next spring if. It all works out

Winters coming fast -1*c here this morning! Sooner it starts, the more time I'll have to execute my big plans...

augiedoggy 08-26-2014 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by 76strokervette (Post 1586437190)
I agree 100%. I have a dart shp 400 with 72cc pro-filer 210 heads and
cometic .027 mls gaskets.The .027 gaskets are the thinnest I could find.

I believe victor sells the .027 or .021 gaskets....I installed a set before pulling them and replacing with .015 felpro shim gaskets on my 355 build.

76strokervette 08-27-2014 08:41 PM

The pro-filer heads calls for a fel pro 1014 head gasket per pro-filer.This gasket has 4.200 bore to un-shroud the combustion chamber.If you have found a thinner gasket please post it.The only gasket I have seen thinner than the cometic .027 is a copper one.

vettezobsezzed 08-28-2014 01:27 AM

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...psace80d3d.jpg

vettezobsezzed 08-28-2014 01:29 AM

Couldn't get a cometic at the time, got these, what you guys think?

vettezobsezzed 08-30-2014 01:22 AM

Special thanks
 
Thanks to big Eddie for setting me up with glass t tops
Thanks to nomocrap for setting me up with original wheels

:rock: can't wait to roll out of the garage next spring...

Just a few more finishing touches on my garage restoration, & I can move fwd on this vette project

hugie82 08-30-2014 01:52 PM

I'm a believer in compression and your afr heads are aluminum so they are more forgiving than cast iron. At worst case scenario you'll have to add a little octane boost if you get a crappy tank of gas. It happens to me with my SS Silverado with an LQ9
I have a 406 on the engine stand and I did use ARP stud for the 2 bolt mains. Your engine is very strong but I would stay away from holding it over 6500rpm for long periods of time.
Do you have a high volume oil pump?

vettezobsezzed 08-30-2014 07:47 PM

Do believe its a stock oil pump, am building off a used shortblock I had built years ago. It was awesome at the time, but destroyed truck it was in. Resurrecting it again with some serious upgrades, hopefully my vette doesn't have the same fate...

I backed out on AFR heads, went with 70cc profilers. Still be running high comp, but should be ok.

vettezobsezzed 10-24-2014 12:52 AM

Think I'm in trouble!
 
Need help, somewhere along the way I bought a cam that I thought was close to what we'd discussed. It's a lunati #20120712 282/290 adv. 231/239 @ 0.050. 0.535/0.550 w/1.5 rocker. Says intake closing point is 41.5 ABDC. My math says this puts me @ about 9.4DCR. If so, it's no good, right? I believe I need to be mid 60's ABDC, right? Help! Do I need a different cam. Where did I go wrong?

REELAV8R 10-24-2014 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1588109919)
Need help, somewhere along the way I bought a cam that I thought was close to what we'd discussed. It's a lunati #20120712 282/290 adv. 231/239 @ 0.050. 0.535/0.550 w/1.5 rocker. Says intake closing point is 41.5 ABDC. My math says this puts me @ about 9.4DCR. If so, it's no good, right? I believe I need to be mid 60's ABDC, right? Help! Do I need a different cam. Where did I go wrong?

I had this same issue with Lunati cam specs. They list all the open/close points @ .050" lift. I don't remember the conversion right now Mako63 has it posted. Try a search.

Go here and put in your specs minus the intake closing point and it will give you the intake closing.

http://www.jeepstrokers.com/calculator/

63mako 10-24-2014 12:03 PM


Originally Posted by REELAV8R (Post 1588111763)
I had this same issue with Lunati cam specs. They list all the open/close points @ .050" lift. I don't remember the conversion right now Mako63 has it posted. Try a search.

Go here and put in your specs minus the intake closing point and it will give you the intake closing.

http://www.jeepstrokers.com/calculator/

Right.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...lculation.html
Just reposted this thread.

vettezobsezzed 10-24-2014 01:58 PM

Awesome
 
Ok, so I reran it in jeep strokers, after I used mako's math (which I'd already studied). All good now, closing pt of 67*. DCR @ 8.13.

I was under the impression that the cam card was the "official document" so I reran it in the stroker calc and came out @ 9.54 DCR, was almost sick in my stomach, since I'd already installed the cam.

Ok, so I feel quite relieved now. Gasket kit is in the mail, should have base pan and timing cover sealed up this week. Pushrod checker is on its way too. Will be needing some guidance when I tackle this part, just have never done it.

So, leave the cam straight up and seal it up.? I trust you fellas calculations. Just want to make sure I'm not "lost in the woods" here.:canadaflag:

Kacyc3 10-24-2014 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1588113146)
Ok, so I reran it in jeep strokers, after I used mako's math (which I'd already studied). All good now, closing pt of 67*. DCR @ 8.13.

I was under the impression that the cam card was the "official document" so I reran it in the stroker calc and came out @ 9.54 DCR, was almost sick in my stomach, since I'd already installed the cam.

Ok, so I feel quite relieved now. Gasket kit is in the mail, should have base pan and timing cover sealed up this week. Pushrod checker is on its way too. Will be needing some guidance when I tackle this part, just have never done it.

So, leave the cam straight up and seal it up.? I trust you fellas calculations. Just want to make sure I'm not "lost in the woods" here.:canadaflag:

Why would you prefer to had the DCR of 8.13?

vettezobsezzed 10-24-2014 02:47 PM

It is understanding, that u want to keep below 8.5 dcr w/aluminum heads to run pump fuel

resdoggie 10-24-2014 04:42 PM

Did you check the intake closing point with a degree wheel?

vettezobsezzed 10-25-2014 12:43 AM

Haven't got that far yet...

vettezobsezzed 11-04-2014 02:06 PM

Updates
 
Pretty well finished my garage resto...

Before
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps79d68a6f.jpg

After

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps293f28a8.jpg

vettezobsezzed 11-04-2014 02:10 PM

Engine update
 
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3f82adcc.jpg

Heads & cam are installed. Got Mr Scott Foxwell to walk me thru pushrod measurements, wow, what a help! Thanks Scott:rock:

Intake & covers are just sitting there... Still need odds and ends. Winter is here sooooo. Here we go

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...pse49c8804.jpg

vettezobsezzed 11-04-2014 02:13 PM

Misc
 
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps74ed0c15.jpg

Pipes


http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps872fc9b3.jpg

New workbench

vettezobsezzed 11-04-2014 02:17 PM

Barrett Jackson vegas
 
Our rental :flag:
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5e7bf3e4.jpg

0001 vette

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7d287526.jpg

Cutaway

http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0cd19418.jpg

vettezobsezzed 11-04-2014 02:18 PM

What a trip
 
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...psfcdb82d3.jpg

vettezobsezzed 11-04-2014 10:21 PM

911
 
For some unknown reason...summit will not ship ngk4091 plugs to my address, can someone help me pick a plug that is comparable...

ezobens 11-04-2014 10:40 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1588192943)
For some unknown reason...summit will not ship ngk4091 plugs to my address, can someone help me pick a plug that is comparable...

How about Amazon?
:cheers:

REELAV8R 11-05-2014 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1588192943)
For some unknown reason...summit will not ship ngk4091 plugs to my address, can someone help me pick a plug that is comparable...

Pretty cold heat range. Is this engine primarily for racing?
Looks like O'reilly's has them too.

vettezobsezzed 11-05-2014 02:15 PM

I have no real understanding on spark plug selection... 76stroker recommended IT earlier in the thread, so I bought it.

Actually got them on rock auto, like $1.5 each, so not bad!

cv67 11-05-2014 02:26 PM

You always leave your toys out on the front lawn like that? :D

REELAV8R 11-05-2014 03:41 PM


Originally Posted by vettezobsezzed (Post 1588197616)
I have no real understanding on spark plug selection... 76stroker recommended IT earlier in the thread, so I bought it.

Actually got them on rock auto, like $1.5 each, so not bad!

Colder heat range plugs are to remove more heat from the combustion chamber via the head and the cooling system. This helps to prevent detonation. But it also removes power from the combustion process. This is a fair trade-off to prevent detonation in high output operations.

Hotter plugs keep more heat in the combustion chamber. This is to keep the plugs from fouling in normal operations such as idling and normal street driving. It also keeps more heat for combustion for more complete combustion since less overall heat is being developed in street driving.
Also notice the plug gap on the ones you chose is .032". That is for high CR engines, with high cylinder pressures and/or weak ignition system components.
With 11:1 CR or less and normal sometimes spirited driving and a HEI ignition a gap of .040" to .050" can be run. This will give you a hotter and better fuel igniting spark.

So if you find that over time you are fouling plugs you could try something a bit hotter. You could also gap those plugs larger if running an HEI.
I run a 5 or 6 heat range in mine with a gap of .045". 5 heat range normally but maybe 6 if a cylinder(s) is running a bit hotter than the others. Fuel delivery to these engines is not the same from cylinder to cylinder so some run leaner, ergo hotter, than the others.

vettezobsezzed 11-05-2014 09:57 PM

I guess at this point, I'll be giving the 4091 a shot... What would be an indicator that I'm too cold?

Pretty sure I have all the odds and ends in need in my hands or in the mail... Except 1, how do I know if I have a short or long water pump?. There's nothing wrong with the one in the car, but I want to keep that engine complete, don't want to be robbing parts.

REELAV8R 11-06-2014 03:26 PM


What would be an indicator that I'm too cold?
Developing a miss due to plug fouling. They might run just fine. Depends on your idle to WOT ratio when you drive, and how close your mixture is to ideal.

76strokervette 11-06-2014 05:15 PM

If you look on the pro-filer website it lists the ngk 4091 or colder.So it seems like the right place to start.It looks like your build is progressing nicely.:thumbs:

vettezobsezzed 11-06-2014 10:43 PM

Ya, I'm finally putting the axe to the grindstone... Hopefully my car is repowered for spring time

vettezobsezzed 11-08-2014 12:52 AM

Help
 
http://i1358.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8699f15a.jpg

Ok, so I've been in a hotel all week, pacing, with almost all the remaining bits I need to cap off this project. Got home tonite and drop in my pushrods and start laying on rockers... Well I didn't get far! Rocker studs on #1 cyl are different from each other. It appears I have 1 oddball in the mix. Rocker nut will hardly catch a thread. Check all the others, yup, just 1 oddball. It's 11/16 at the base, all the rest are 5/8, wtf? 0.05 difference in height. I happen to have a full set of studs so I grab one, same as the oddball. It matches sum-g1675. What a kick in the teeth!

Thanks Profiler, feeling really good about your quality control right now! :mad:

vettezobsezzed 11-08-2014 01:05 AM

Anyone know where to get a rocker stud 3/8 24. 1.82 effective height. 1" of thread?

76strokervette 11-08-2014 05:14 AM

I believe the studs you have are made by pioneer products.Any 1.75 tall stud with the correct thread length should work.I personally went with 7/16 arp studs with scorpion rockers and a jomar stud girdle.Competition products in Wisconsin should carry what you need and their service is good.I f you want to run stud girdles check out Bailey engines in coldwater Michigan.He sells the jomar girdle made specifically for the pro-filer head.Scott can also hook you up with the package if you would like.I believe he still sells on ebay also.

ezobens 11-08-2014 01:07 PM

I'm not understanding your issue-
Is it that the rocker studs themselves are off or are you saying the machining height of the rocker pad or holes are off in the head?
Are you sure the valves aren't just open on #1 and that is why the studs "appear" too short?
Just trying to understand..
:cheers:

vettezobsezzed 11-09-2014 12:06 AM

I just moved on from that.. Seems to be ok, but the issue was just that there was one stud different than the rest... Someone knew they did that! Would have had to get a different socket to install.

Tonites progress: finished with rockers, studs and pushrods, installed the intake, dropped in the dizzy for a look, installed thermostat, had wrong gasket, so that will have to wait...


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