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-   C7 General Discussion (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-general-discussion-142/)
-   -   My Z51 tires have Cracks all over (https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-general-discussion/3433911-my-z51-tires-have-cracks-all-over.html)

Dan12 03-12-2014 01:11 PM

Looks like the tire was designed specifically for the C7.

Wonder if this will be a recall or just replace tires on a case by case basis?

"Michelin Talks About the C7 Stingray’s New Tires
Clifton Klaverweiden
by Clifton Klaverweiden on February 1, 2013
The importance of having the right tires on a car simply cannot be understated. So when it came time for the C7 to hit the road, Chevrolet tasked the performance tire experts at Michelin with creating an all new tire specifically for the 2014 Corvette Stingray. After months of development and testing, the result was two separate versions of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport ZP run-flat tires – one for the standard car, and the other for the optional Z51 package".

C8Jake 03-12-2014 01:15 PM


LT1xL82 03-12-2014 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by C7Jake (Post 1586382391)
Tires are okay in the garage, just don't move it below 20F
3/4" rubber pads isolate tires from the floor.

I'm not sure if they will or will not be ok if stored well below 20F. I'd guess your area's temperature range is similar to mine in upstate New York. Minus 15F is not terribly uncommon here. Please let us know how your tires fair in cold storage.

BTW, I would not only not move the car below 20F, I would not even inflate/deflate the tires. It is my understanding they are that fragile at low temperatures.

CV-4606 03-12-2014 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by TheYoungster (Post 1586377441)
My Z51 tires have hundreds of these little cracks around the entire outside diameter of all 4 tires. The tires look like they have been sitting in the junk yard for 50 years and are dry and brittle.

The car has been in a heated garage all winter. I've never had it out on any of the cold days. I'm not sure how long the cracks were there. I noticed them while washing the wheels. You have to look close. You guys might want to checks your tires.

Are these safe to drive on? The cracks appear to go thru the entire tread.

If you have a 60K plus car you should be able to drive it whenever you want. 0 degrees or 100 degrees. Give me a break GM. C7, NO WAY YET.

NSC5 03-12-2014 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by LT1xL82 (Post 1586386374)
BTW, I would not only not move the car below 20F, I would not even inflate/deflate the tires. It is my understanding they are that fragile at low temperatures.

If they are truly that fragile then the change in air pressure that occurs with significant change in temperature would be enough to cause a problem with the car just sitting.

WesC7 03-12-2014 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by CV-4606 (Post 1586386676)
If you have a 60K plus car you should be able to drive it whenever you want. 0 degrees or 100 degrees. Give me a break GM. C7, NO WAY YET.

WTFO??? Michelin is a better company than to provide this kind of product!

450hp mike9 03-12-2014 03:54 PM

There should be a Hugh warning on the door tire label about this tire cracking issue. There are going to be some heads rolling over @ Michelin. I wonder how many new owners of the C7 Z51 are aware of this protential tire problem ?

I figured the cold weather was more of a traction issue not a tire damage problem WTF !

gthal 03-12-2014 04:06 PM


Originally Posted by CV-4606 (Post 1586386676)
If you have a 60K plus car you should be able to drive it whenever you want. 0 degrees or 100 degrees. Give me a break GM. C7, NO WAY YET.


Originally Posted by WesC5 (Post 1586387255)
WTFO??? Michelin is a better company than to provide this kind of product!

This is a function of the rubber compound which, based on reports, is effectively a race compound on the outer half of the Z51 tire. This is not a new phenomenon... very aggressive summer tires from Goodyear, Yokohama, Bridgestone, etc have the exact same issue when exposed to extreme low temperatures. Yokohama warns that you can't even store (let alone use) the AD-08 below a certain temperature without permanently damaging the tire!!

In the example in this thread, we don't know what the issue is yet... could be a defective batch of tires, who knows. However, the broader "cracking" issue with the PSS is NOT a function of a poor design or indicative of a problem. It is a function of a near racing grip tire and the rubber compound necessary to achieve this level of grip. If people want mediocre summer grip and a wider range of potential operating temps, take the PSS off, sell them to me and buy a set of no-season (oops, meant all season) tires :thumbs:


Originally Posted by 450hp mike9 (Post 1586387296)
There should be a Hugh warning on the door tire label about this tire cracking issue. There are going to be some heads rolling over @ Michelin. I wonder how many new owners of the C7 Z51 are aware of this protential tire problem ?

Heads rolling? For what? Building one of the highest performing summer street tires ever made available? Yeah, I'd fire that guy for sure :D

I'm not sure why everyone is assuming the Michelin tire world is falling apart :crazy:

450hp mike9 03-12-2014 04:27 PM


Originally Posted by gthal (Post 1586387411)
This is a function of the rubber compound which, based on reports, is effectively a race compound on the outer half of the Z51 tire. This is not a new phenomenon... very aggressive summer tires from Goodyear, Yokohama, Bridgestone, etc have the exact same issue when exposed to extreme low temperatures. Yokohama warns that you can't even store (let alone use) the AD-08 below a certain temperature without permanently damaging the tire!!

In the example in this thread, we don't know what the issue is yet... could be a defective batch of tires, who knows. However, the broader "cracking" issue with the PSS is NOT a function of a poor design or indicative of a problem. It is a function of a near racing grip tire and the rubber compound necessary to achieve this level of grip. If people want mediocre summer grip and a wider range of potential operating temps, take the PSS off, sell them to me and buy a set of no-season (oops, meant all season) tires :thumbs:



Heads rolling? For what? Building one of the highest performing summer street tires ever made available? Yeah, I'd fire that guy for sure :D

I'm not sure why everyone is assuming the Michelin tire world is falling apart :crazy:

There are all kinds of people on here are you a tire engineer or is this just your opinion ? Don't take this wrong just asking .

gthal 03-12-2014 04:31 PM


Originally Posted by 450hp mike9 (Post 1586387616)
There are all kinds of people on here are you a tire engineer or is this just your opinion ? Don't take this wrong just asking .

Not an engineer... just my observations based on my experience with other tires that have similar warnings and my experience with freezing temps on r compound tires I have seen (you subject a race compound tire to -10 temps for a period of time and you often ruin the tire). Both of which are consistent with what we see with the Z51 PSS tire. This is a well documented and known characteristic of tire compounds designed to withstand the abuse of a track and excessively high tire temperatures.

Could it be a design flaw? Sure.

Based on what we know to date, do I think it is? Nope.

Is it consistent with cold temperature tire issues from other manufacturers? Yes.

I'm just trying to suggest that people should stop concluding the sky is falling at this point and overreacting. :cheers:

P.S. Re-reading my post, I should be more clear that it is all "in my opinion"... it was a little too matter of fact and, as I said, I'm not a tire engineer :D

Mr. Peabody 03-12-2014 04:39 PM

Look at it in a positive way
 
Due to geographic location (Seattle) we don’t ever see low temps like I used to when I lived in upstate NY however those of us that use our corvettes (prepare yourself for blasphemy now...) as year round daily drivers ….. are used to having two sets of wheels with two completely different tread compounds.

It’s not a secret after all that summer-only high performance tires are not supposed to be used when road temps go below 40. When I first got my 95 ten years ago it was my only vehicle and for 6 years I drove it numerous times in the snow (up and down hills even) but I was running Conti Extreme DWS tires on all 4 corners and it ran through 4" - 5" of snow with no problems.

So try looking at it this way …….. those of you who for some silly reason bought your vettes with black wheels now have the opportunity to correct that faux pas and get yourself a nice set of chromes to run your summer tires on and use the black wheels in the winter time when the car is going to get dirty anyway.:thumbs:

XEUROTRASHOWNER 03-12-2014 04:53 PM

[QUOTE=

So try looking at it this way …….. those of you who for some silly reason bought your vettes with black wheels now have the opportunity to correct that faux pas and get yourself a nice set of chromes to run your summer tires on and use the black wheels in the winter time when the car is going to get dirty anyway.:thumbs:[/QUOTE]

THIS STATEMENT SHOULD GET ALOT OF PEOPLE GOING.:hide:

Richard G. 03-12-2014 05:19 PM


Originally Posted by TheYoungster (Post 1586377441)
My Z51 tires have hundreds of these little cracks around the entire outside diameter of all 4 tires. The tires look like they have been sitting in the junk yard for 50 years and are dry and brittle.

The car has been in a heated garage all winter. I've never had it out on any of the cold days. I'm not sure how long the cracks were there. I noticed them while washing the wheels. You have to look close. You guys might want to checks your tires.

Are these safe to drive on? The cracks appear to go thru the entire tread.

I have about 50 years of buying and running tires on all sorts of vehicles. The cracks that I have seen are on old or abused tires.
Your tires are neither. If I had a new tire develop cracks I would ask for replacement. There is no way a new tire should have cracks in it.
I am not and expert or tire engineer, just based on my experience.
Take em back!!

texvette2 03-12-2014 05:42 PM

Looks like dry rotting tires.

jacsa22 03-12-2014 08:36 PM

I'm in New Jersey and have driven the car in 20 to 40 degree weather including a trip to Boston on a 27 degree weekend. I just checked my tires and there are no cracks. Just under 3K on the car Vin in the 8900s took delivery on 12/19. Car is kept in an unheated garage. Seems this does not happen to every tire which would make me think some are being produced with defects. I never knew I could be a "tire engineer". What colleges offer this degree?

LT1xL82 03-12-2014 10:05 PM


Originally Posted by NSC5 (Post 1586386751)
If they are truly that fragile then the change in air pressure that occurs with significant change in temperature would be enough to cause a problem with the car just sitting.

Yep. Scary thought...but it might be reality.

Croc999 03-13-2014 10:02 AM


Originally Posted by TheYoungster (Post 1586377542)
Pointed to them on this picture. Granted they are small and hard to see in a picture. In real life they are very obvious and they cover the entire tire. In total, the two rubber compounds have entirely separated on the tire.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/atta...ire-cracks.png

those are wear marks.
always created during hard cornering.
100% normal.

Dan12 03-13-2014 10:05 AM

The tires are like any other part made for the C7, many parts, brakes, electronics etc are made by other manufacturers and supplied to GM. The tires were designed specifically for the 2014 C7, so they are as new as the car.

This supplier obviously got it wrong. Are you kidding me, cracks in tires, is it OK? And all the way through the tread? The Z51 is meant to be tracked and run at 180 MPH.

Some are actually trying to say this is OK. Are you in some type of denial? Are there any other parts of the car you would be OK with cracks in it? Paint, glass, dashboard? Those are all cosmetic and wouldn't be a safety issue but I bet any one of them would be a much bigger concern here? I know some may not exceed 55MPH but I plan to run the car as designed now and then.

Another note is Michelin has made tires for many Formula 1 racing seasons. Every year the F1 car is new so new specific tires are designed every year. More times than not the first one out fails, blistering, cracking etc. It’s very common for them to go back to the drawing board after their first attempt. (Good thing it’s a long season)

The cold temps are an excuse. How would they ship cars in the winter? Time to fight back and demand replacement tires if yours are showing signs of cracking. Part of the prestige and excitement of getting the first is having to deal with some of these issues. It’s not that big of a deal, issues like this were expected and the warranty should cover it. But don’t say its not a problem.

Hopefully it’s a small batch and not the entire run. Next few months will tell.

A last thought: Get the dealer to put it in writing, “cracks in tires, all the way through the tread will be fine at 180MPH” Better yet get your attorney to send them a letter requesting their signature.

gthal 03-13-2014 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by Dan12 (Post 1586393591)
The tires are like any other part made for the C7, many parts, brakes, electronics etc are made by other manufacturers and supplied to GM. The tires were designed specifically for the 2014 C7, so they are as new as the car.

This supplier obviously got it wrong. Are you kidding me, cracks in tires, is it OK? And all the way through the tread? The Z51 is meant to be tracked and run at 180 MPH.

Some are actually trying to say this is OK. Are you in some type of denial? Are there any other parts of the car you would be OK with cracks in it? Paint, glass, dashboard? Those are all cosmetic and wouldn't be a safety issue but I bet any one of them would be a much bigger concern here? I know some may not exceed 55MPH but I plan to run the car as designed now and then.

Another note is Michelin has made tires for many Formula 1 racing seasons. Every year the F1 car is new so new specific tires are designed every year. More times than not the first one out fails, blistering, cracking etc. It’s very common for them to go back to the drawing board after their first attempt. (Good thing it’s a long season)

The cold temps are an excuse. How would they ship cars in the winter? Time to fight back and demand replacement tires if yours are showing signs of cracking. Part of the prestige and excitement of getting the first is having to deal with some of these issues. It’s not that big of a deal, issues like this were expected and the warranty should cover it. But don’t say its not a problem.

Hopefully it’s a small batch and not the entire run. Next few months will tell.

A last thought: Get the dealer to put it in writing, “cracks in tires, all the way through the tread will be fine at 180MPH” Better yet get your attorney to send them a letter requesting their signature.

You are absolutely right... cracked tires ARE a problem and should be replaced.

Also, IMO, GM should not be shipping cars with Z51 PSS tires in freezing temps for this very reason. As long as they replace problem tires, it is their issue and no big deal.

However, from what we know today, it is an expected characteristic of the rubber compound and not a flaw. I do not believe Michelin got it "wrong" as you state. The reason the rubber cracks in freezing temps is for the very reason you stated above... the car is meant to be tracked and the rubber compound that is best suited for that purpose is the same rubber compound that cannot deal with freezing temps.

Now, could there be another problem with the tires? Maybe. We don't know yet... what we know is that GM is warning about the impact of temperature on the rubber compound (as does Goodyear, Bridgestone, Yokohama) so what we are seeing is completely consistent with that for the moment. Time will tell if there is another issue.

2 Ag R8Cs 03-13-2014 11:54 AM

I asked about driving with these tires a few months ago and got pooped on. Apparently my concerns about driving these tires in cold weather was a real concern. Fortunately except for this past winter it almost never goes below 40 during the day. It gets cold at night but when the sun comes pun it warms right up.


If I was still living in NY I would buy a set of snow tires.


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