Originally Posted by heavychevy (Post 1585901251)

Manuals are for the sissies who want to drive the car faster, not have the car drive them faster.

Originally Posted by DaveFerrari458 (Post 1585901854)

Who knows the Auto may perform as well or better than a DCT but even for marketing & perception purposes GM should have put a DCT in this car.

I can see how some (maybe ignorant) will start talking sh*t about GM always being behind the world and blah blah. Talking all their sh*t and bringing down the entire car while totally ignoring all the rest of the cars positives. If GM didn't have a DCT ready then they could have outsourced one for a year or two.

Originally Posted by The Clevite Kid (Post 1585901912)

. . . and GM should offer an expensive DOHC engine for those who want it, and to appear super-technical - - - oh, they already did that? In 1990? Wow! :rofl:

Originally Posted by DaveFerrari458 (Post 1585901933)

GM of today is much different than GM of the 90's.

Originally Posted by glass slipper (Post 1585894798)

"Slushboxes" are from the '50s when they had fluid couplers. Those were replaced by torque converters in the '60s, lockup torque converters in the '70s, pulse width modulated (PWM) lockup torque converters in the '90s, and the 2000s brought us multi-disc PWM lockup torque converters capable of transmitting the maximum power of high performance engines in lockup mode. The 6L80 torque converter goes into lockup in 2nd gear and I'm sure the 8L90 will too. The PWM feature "pulses" the lockup clutch hydraulic pressure to achieve as much as 80-100 RPM "slippage" between the input/output of the torque converter at low RPM cruise to dampen engine vibrations due to low frequency power pulses from individual piston power strokes. The modern day torque converter has nothing in common with the old "slushbox" fluid coupler...welcome to the 21st century.

A DCT has two multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The 8L90 has multiple multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The same exact thing just different. There is no reason the 8L90 can't shift as fast as a DCT...they both use multi plate wet clutches and a hydraulic pump in conjunction with proportional "solenoid" valves that control the speed of the clutch engagement/shift.

I like the term "torque converter MCT" for the 8L90...it has more than two clutches so DCT wouldn't be proper. Plus, more is better. :D

Any standing start contest will be won handily by the 8L90 with the torque converter multiplying torque and letting the engine get up on top of its HP curve faster. They weigh about the same and efficiency will be about the same but the 8L90 will be smaller. The 8L90 will kick any DCT to the curb when it comes to drivability and you don't have to worry about the computer second guessing what you want to do. You also don't have to worry about being in the wrong gear all of a sudden since the DCT can only pre-select one gear...all gears are engaged all of the time in the 8L90.

I think if people took the time to understand 21st century automatics, we wouldn't have so many naysayers. Hopefully there will be plenty of info at the reveal but it's the proverbial "you can lead a horse to water" all over again...you can't drown them because they breathe through their butt. :lol:

Originally Posted by glass slipper (Post 1585894798)

"Slushboxes" are from the '50s when they had fluid couplers. Those were replaced by torque converters in the '60s, lockup torque converters in the '70s, pulse width modulated (PWM) lockup torque converters in the '90s, and the 2000s brought us multi-disc PWM lockup torque converters capable of transmitting the maximum power of high performance engines in lockup mode. The 6L80 torque converter goes into lockup in 2nd gear and I'm sure the 8L90 will too. The PWM feature "pulses" the lockup clutch hydraulic pressure to achieve as much as 80-100 RPM "slippage" between the input/output of the torque converter at low RPM cruise to dampen engine vibrations due to low frequency power pulses from individual piston power strokes. The modern day torque converter has nothing in common with the old "slushbox" fluid coupler...welcome to the 21st century.

A DCT has two multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The 8L90 has multiple multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The same exact thing just different. There is no reason the 8L90 can't shift as fast as a DCT...they both use multi plate wet clutches and a hydraulic pump in conjunction with proportional "solenoid" valves that control the speed of the clutch engagement/shift.

I like the term "torque converter MCT" for the 8L90...it has more than two clutches so DCT wouldn't be proper. Plus, more is better. :D

Any standing start contest will be won handily by the 8L90 with the torque converter multiplying torque and letting the engine get up on top of its HP curve faster. They weigh about the same and efficiency will be about the same but the 8L90 will be smaller. The 8L90 will kick any DCT to the curb when it comes to drivability and you don't have to worry about the computer second guessing what you want to do. You also don't have to worry about being in the wrong gear all of a sudden since the DCT can only pre-select one gear...all gears are engaged all of the time in the 8L90.

I think if people took the time to understand 21st century automatics, we wouldn't have so many naysayers. Hopefully there will be plenty of info at the reveal but it's the proverbial "you can lead a horse to water" all over again...you can't drown them because they breathe through their butt. :lol:

Originally Posted by glass slipper (Post 1585894798)

"Slushboxes" are from the '50s when they had fluid couplers. Those were replaced by torque converters in the '60s, lockup torque converters in the '70s, pulse width modulated (PWM) lockup torque converters in the '90s, and the 2000s brought us multi-disc PWM lockup torque converters capable of transmitting the maximum power of high performance engines in lockup mode. The 6L80 torque converter goes into lockup in 2nd gear and I'm sure the 8L90 will too. The PWM feature "pulses" the lockup clutch hydraulic pressure to achieve as much as 80-100 RPM "slippage" between the input/output of the torque converter at low RPM cruise to dampen engine vibrations due to low frequency power pulses from individual piston power strokes. The modern day torque converter has nothing in common with the old "slushbox" fluid coupler...welcome to the 21st century.

A DCT has two multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The 8L90 has multiple multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The same exact thing just different. There is no reason the 8L90 can't shift as fast as a DCT...they both use multi plate wet clutches and a hydraulic pump in conjunction with proportional "solenoid" valves that control the speed of the clutch engagement/shift.

I like the term "torque converter MCT" for the 8L90...it has more than two clutches so DCT wouldn't be proper. Plus, more is better. :D

Any standing start contest will be won handily by the 8L90 with the torque converter multiplying torque and letting the engine get up on top of its HP curve faster. They weigh about the same and efficiency will be about the same but the 8L90 will be smaller. The 8L90 will kick any DCT to the curb when it comes to drivability and you don't have to worry about the computer second guessing what you want to do. You also don't have to worry about being in the wrong gear all of a sudden since the DCT can only pre-select one gear...all gears are engaged all of the time in the 8L90.

I think if people took the time to understand 21st century automatics, we wouldn't have so many naysayers. Hopefully there will be plenty of info at the reveal but it's the proverbial "you can lead a horse to water" all over again...you can't drown them because they breathe through their butt. :lol:

Originally Posted by vette6799 (Post 1585901589)

It's probably not testosterone. Much of the bitching, I suspect, is from the older members who couldn't drive a Z06 unless it were to be equipped with Depends and who get their daily dose of "T" through their armpits.

Manual transmissions may be more fun, if that's your thing, but if performance is what matters, particularly serious racing, manuals won't be the transmission of choice, nor have they been for quite some time.

Originally Posted by glass slipper (Post 1585894798)

"Slushboxes" are from the '50s when they had fluid couplers. Those were replaced by torque converters in the '60s, lockup torque converters in the '70s, pulse width modulated (PWM) lockup torque converters in the '90s, and the 2000s brought us multi-disc PWM lockup torque converters capable of transmitting the maximum power of high performance engines in lockup mode. The 6L80 torque converter goes into lockup in 2nd gear and I'm sure the 8L90 will too. The PWM feature "pulses" the lockup clutch hydraulic pressure to achieve as much as 80-100 RPM "slippage" between the input/output of the torque converter at low RPM cruise to dampen engine vibrations due to low frequency power pulses from individual piston power strokes. The modern day torque converter has nothing in common with the old "slushbox" fluid coupler...welcome to the 21st century.

A DCT has two multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The 8L90 has multiple multi plate wet clutches that are hydraulically applied/released in a clutch to clutch architecture. The same exact thing just different. There is no reason the 8L90 can't shift as fast as a DCT...they both use multi plate wet clutches and a hydraulic pump in conjunction with proportional "solenoid" valves that control the speed of the clutch engagement/shift.

I like the term "torque converter MCT" for the 8L90...it has more than two clutches so DCT wouldn't be proper. Plus, more is better. :D

Any standing start contest will be won handily by the 8L90 with the torque converter multiplying torque and letting the engine get up on top of its HP curve faster. They weigh about the same and efficiency will be about the same but the 8L90 will be smaller. The 8L90 will kick any DCT to the curb when it comes to drivability and you don't have to worry about the computer second guessing what you want to do. You also don't have to worry about being in the wrong gear all of a sudden since the DCT can only pre-select one gear...all gears are engaged all of the time in the 8L90.

I think if people took the time to understand 21st century automatics, we wouldn't have so many naysayers. Hopefully there will be plenty of info at the reveal but it's the proverbial "you can lead a horse to water" all over again...you can't drown them because they breathe through their butt. :lol:

Originally Posted by Gadfly (Post 1585904201)

You make some good points, present some facts, and then spin the **** out of it. A dct or sct automated manul have many advantages over even modern torque coverters based boxes to include heat generation.

I am a fan of the dct I owned in my gtr, and I am looking forward to seeing what this "slushbox" auto will do, but I see it for what it is... a temporary solution while gm finishes thier dct development. I hope it works well, but there is no denying the car would be better served by an sct (lambo/lfa) or a high performance dct.

Originally Posted by Racer (Post 1585892816)

Won't it be embarrassing when this slushbox car, leads all cars at the drag strip, road courses and track.

Originally Posted by MHaynes772 (Post 1585892989)

The Lamborghini Aventador doesn't have DCT, it uses an automatic gearbox. They're not all bad. We should just hold out until Monday to see the details.

Originally Posted by Z06Norway (Post 1585904456)

Yes it would, but you can't ignore inefficiency of a slush box
Great for drag race, not so much for racing, ie road racing

Seen many race cars or top of the clas sportscar with slushbox ?
DCT is NOT converter automatics 👍

Rune

Originally Posted by dcbingaman (Post 1585895519)

At last, a poster who understands transmissions, as opposed to the raft of DCT zealots who don't seem to realize that the DCT is 50 years old and is not the only way to get the job done. All DCT's with any power handling capability use WET clutches - they depend on SLUSH to engage the engine and the drivetrain.

Now that we've established that SLUSH is involved in either a TC or DCT auto transmission, the question is, which performs better and where is the technology headed next. Most mechanical engineers, (of whom there are apparently just a handful on this forum - including me), understand that the technology in controls, actuation and multi-plate clutches will, inevitably, make the advanced TC auto a much better choice than a DCT for a number of reasons. The simplest is that the TC auto is lighter, can multiply the engine torque at start and low speeds, and is much more flexible than a sequential or a DCT - the computer simply has more "knobs" to turn.

The A6 in my Z51 works great. It's smooth in Touring and shifts as fast I could with an M7 in Sport or Track. I'm certain that the A8 will work even better. I'm willing to bet that the new Z06 with the A8 will put the vaunted 911 (991) GT3 back on the trailer with out breaking a sweat. And when it does, what will the DCT zealots say then ? It will "feel" faster if only it had a DCT ? Give me a break.