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Originally Posted by 1985 Corvette
(Post 1585648289)
There's a video floating on youtube of a ZR-1 vs a LS1 C5. C5 loses ground gradually in every gear change until the last gear, in which the ZR-1 begins to go for a very long walk on its own. I know the track capabilities of the C5 made the comparison even in LS1 form a different story, but on the street, no LS1 Vettes were touching a ZR-1. C5 Z06 was a different story, only thing the ZR-1 had over it was a higher top speed that's about it but you could probably count the number of places in the USA on one hand that had enough long straight road to one up a C5 Z06 in top speed.
I guess we still discuss cars from 20 years ago the same way the F car nuts still romanticize their beloved F40s to Scuderias and 458s.:D We did a different run one time (Matt the owner of the ZR-1 could attest) with no passengers in either car and we both shifted good and we were DEAD EVEN from 30mph-150+mph. Literally I could look over and see him through his window and he could see me the ENTIRE run. It was the most even race either of us has ever had which is crazy considering the different powerband, gearing, etc. of the LS1 versus LT-5. Anyway, this is a fake video that was computer generated. :D |
Originally Posted by disc0monkey
(Post 1585648729)
while i think it's great you guys still discuss a great car in its time, but this is a c7 section. There are a lot of LT5 guys in a number of threads in the c7 sections lately, preaching and comparing something or other to the c4ZR1, and I just don't see the point. its a free country so ill be quiet now. :hide:
Originally Posted by sam90lx
(Post 1585648850)
1985 Corvette adds a lot to these forums whichever section he is in. He can post if he wants, have a problem with it...contact the mods.
Originally Posted by QUIKAG
(Post 1585649707)
Since the statute of limitations has lapsed, I was the driver of the silver C5. :D :D :D Totally irrelevant to this discussion, but it was a modded LT5 ZR-1 (chip, gears, and breathing mods). My '01 C5 had intake, long-tubes, and a B&B PRT exhaust with no tune (i.e. factory stock). I was pretty happy with how my car handled this ZR-1 since I had a passenger and he didn't.
We did a different run one time (Matt the owner of the ZR-1 could attest) with no passengers in either car and we both shifted good and we were DEAD EVEN from 30mph-150+mph. Literally I could look over and see him through his window and he could see me the ENTIRE run. It was the most even race either of us has ever had which is crazy considering the different powerband, gearing, etc. of the LS1 versus LT-5. Anyway, this is a fake video that was computer generated. :D C4 ZR1 vs C5 - YouTube |
I'm waiting for gear based boost and an electrically controlled compressor....the possibility is there (and likely) with this patent.
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Originally Posted by 1985 Corvette
(Post 1585651853)
You also have another video of you chasing two black ZR-1s down a long stretch with your speedo pegged, don't you? That one is a goodun too! :D
Regarding the C7 predictions, has anyone looked at from an engineering / physics perspective? If the Z06 is 650 - 705 hp, then the ZR1 would have to be 800+ hp. Can any front engine rwd, 3500 - 3600 lbs car, put down 800+ hp? or even 705 hp? On Cup tires I have trouble with a stock LS7 out of tight corners. Heads and cams it'll be almost impossible without drag radials, which is useless on a true sportscar. HP can only go so high without AWD. This is why the latest hypercars (918 and La Ferrari) all have hybrid AWD setups. |
Originally Posted by QUIKAG
(Post 1585648641)
No, they won't. People (like me) will sell our C6 ZR1's for the C7 ZR1. Maybe some of us will jump off the C6 ZR bandwagon to the C7 Z06 as it's going to be an outstanding car, but I'll keep driving my last gen hooptie and wait for the BIG dog.
I believe that the C7 ZR1 will come out with a 6.2L twin turbo (since the TT tune is in the E92 already). But there's a possibility that the Z06 hits over 600 HP and a ZR1 doesn't make it to production. After all, a 600HP C7 would demolish the competition. If the C7 with 460HP is keeping up with a 700 HP Ferrari on the track, a 600 HP C7 is going to be king of the track. I'd imagine that with all the major upgrades and refinements of the C7, a C7 Z06 making at least 600 HP is going to have a lot of ZR1 owners picking one up. BTW, just because the ZR1 was the upgraded trim from the Z06 for the C6s, doesn't mean that will be the case for the C7s. GM has a habit of changing what trim levels are better than others. So it's not necessarily a "downgrade" to sell a "top" trim ZR1 C6 for a "top" trim Z06 C7. And considering the serious upgraded interior and refinements of the C7, I'd consider it an upgrade even if it has a little less power. My 2 cents. By the way, I let a ZR1 owner over here check out my car and sit in it... He was absolutely blown away by it. Although, he did say that he was going to try to keep both cars (his ZR1 and a C7). His wife didn't look too happy about that. LOL |
Originally Posted by 1985 Corvette
(Post 1585651853)
Small world! I watched that video over ten years ago off a download.:rofl: I actually watched it a bit, I was always intrigued by the powerbands and gearing through each gear change, as you mentioned. By far one of the more fun and memorable races. Thank you for offering a description to it and correcting me on what I thought was a stock to stock comparo. You also have another video of you chasing two black ZR-1s down a long stretch with your speedo pegged, don't you? That one is a goodun too! :D
Originally Posted by SCM_Crash
(Post 1585663520)
And how long to expect to be waiting for a ZR1 variant? How do you know there will even be one. Perhaps they don't come out with one. By the time you realize it, the C8 will be out.
I believe that the C7 ZR1 will come out with a 6.2L twin turbo (since the TT tune is in the E92 already). But there's a possibility that the Z06 hits over 600 HP and a ZR1 doesn't make it to production. After all, a 600HP C7 would demolish the competition. If the C7 with 460HP is keeping up with a 700 HP Ferrari on the track, a 600 HP C7 is going to be king of the track. I'd imagine that with all the major upgrades and refinements of the C7, a C7 Z06 making at least 600 HP is going to have a lot of ZR1 owners picking one up. BTW, just because the ZR1 was the upgraded trim from the Z06 for the C6s, doesn't mean that will be the case for the C7s. GM has a habit of changing what trim levels are better than others. So it's not necessarily a "downgrade" to sell a "top" trim ZR1 C6 for a "top" trim Z06 C7. And considering the serious upgraded interior and refinements of the C7, I'd consider it an upgrade even if it has a little less power. My 2 cents. By the way, I let a ZR1 owner over here check out my car and sit in it... He was absolutely blown away by it. Although, he did say that he was going to try to keep both cars (his ZR1 and a C7). His wife didn't look too happy about that. LOL My ZR1 is more optimized for track duty (i.e. race seats, harnesses, poly bushings, very aggressive camber, race slicks, Finspeed wheels, etc.), so I do not want to return my ZR1 to stock, buy a C7 Z06, fix it up to my liking, and then pick up a C7 ZR1 and then have to return the C7 Z06 back to stock, sell it, etc.. Too much work and hassle. I'm very happy with my C6 ZR1 in the meantimeand I think it's quite likely the C7 ZR1 will be out in a few years and I have no problem waiting another 3-4 years to pick up a second MY ZR1. I am buying a big GMPP extended warranty on the C6 ZR1 and I'm going to enjoy it in the meantime. There is just no way GM doesn't do a ZR1. It's going to be a C7 Z06 with a very special twin turbo engine, some very minor interior differentiation, some different exterior styling, some bigger wheels/tires, probably slightly better CC brakes, maybe some more weight reduction relative the Z06 with some more exotic materials, and that's probably it. Charge another $20k-$25k or so more than a loaded Z06 and they will sell a lot of them. (relatively speaking) Not much extra development bucks (especially since that engine will be shared with probably a few premium Cadillac models in some form) and some good sticker price difference = a relative winner for Chevy, not to mention being a huge halo car for GM having a 700hp+ car that run down almost any Ferrari, Lambo, Audi, Viper, on track for hundreds of thousands less. |
Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
(Post 1585623957)
Riiiiiight. GM is going to with hold performance in order to "respect" the owners of a discontinued platform. Sure thing, buddy. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by Tom400CFI
(Post 1585624468)
If you raise the inlet pressure for the stock SC, it will raise that pressure, about the same as it does with atmospheric pressure...so yes, you could compound charge that engine.
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Originally Posted by QUIKAG
(Post 1585667214)
I don't specifically remember that second video but there were two guys (Matt and Sam) that both had ZR-1 Vettes and they would both come out to play often, so if it was a silver C5 chasing them, then it was probably me. My dumb(er) younger days. :D :D D:
Dude, I don't doubt for a second that the C7 Z06 is going to be very competitive to the C6 ZR1 and quite possibly faster. Then there is no comparision between interior finishout, gadgets, etc. My ZR1 is more optimized for track duty (i.e. race seats, harnesses, poly bushings, very aggressive camber, race slicks, Finspeed wheels, etc.), so I do not want to return my ZR1 to stock, buy a C7 Z06, fix it up to my liking, and then pick up a C7 ZR1 and then have to return the C7 Z06 back to stock, sell it, etc.. Too much work and hassle. I'm very happy with my C6 ZR1 in the meantimeand I think it's quite likely the C7 ZR1 will be out in a few years and I have no problem waiting another 3-4 years to pick up a second MY ZR1. I am buying a big GMPP extended warranty on the C6 ZR1 and I'm going to enjoy it in the meantime. There is just no way GM doesn't do a ZR1. It's going to be a C7 Z06 with a very special twin turbo engine, some very minor interior differentiation, some different exterior styling, some bigger wheels/tires, probably slightly better CC brakes, maybe some more weight reduction relative the Z06 with some more exotic materials, and that's probably it. Charge another $20k-$25k or so more than a loaded Z06 and they will sell a lot of them. (relatively speaking) Not much extra development bucks (especially since that engine will be shared with probably a few premium Cadillac models in some form) and some good sticker price difference = a relative winner for Chevy, not to mention being a huge halo car for GM having a 700hp+ car that run down almost any Ferrari, Lambo, Audi, Viper, on track for hundreds of thousands less. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance. Look at it like this: The C6 was a LONG production run due to a crappy economy and a recovering company. The C7 may not be more than 6 years. The reason there were so many C6 variants was to keep demand for new Vettes up. But if the C7 isn't a long run, there may not be need to put out a ZR1 variant. They may decide to do it, but to be honest, I wouldn't hold my breath. The way that things are going for GM and CAFE standards, I imagine a C8 coming in 6-7 years with a performance-minded hybrid power plant. There may not be enough time in that situation to make a ZR1 a profitable variant. Besides research, development, retooling and marketing, you have to realize that they'll still need to sell it for x amount of years to make it worth doing at all. If they release it 4 years from now, and the generation doesn't have an extended run like the C6, they may have just wasted their money. |
They did 8 model years for the C5, 9 model years for the C6. C7 ZO6 will be a 2015 model, one year into the C7 life cycle just like the C6 Z06. The ZR1 will likely be a 2016 or 2017 MY car leave at least 3-4 years for a good ZR1 run.
Remember the twin turbo will go in at least one premium Cadillac model and that will be the big differentiator over the Z06. Everything else interior and exterior is minor tooling. Trust me there are a lot of is who would pay a nice premium for a factory twin turbo Vette. Also, those talking about putting the power down, it's doable with the electronic diff and very advanced traction control along with some special 355 specifically designed rear meats. I'm not saying it won't spin at times, but that is part of the fun. :D |
Speaking of Keeks, some of you probably weren't here during the Keeks saga. He was getting what has turned out to be very reliable info, not 100% (e.g. weight: '2014 will be lightest modern Corvette in history') but very close on almost everything else. I preserved as much of his info as I could at the time and have a website where it is captured.
Concerning the LT4, Keeks said, "2015 LT4 supercharged engine - 586hp - will be an upgrade of Camaro ZL1. I think it is called LT4 so you don't think it is from a C6." However, another miss by Keeks was his statement that the LT1 would be 430 hp, so you power-hungry folks can hope his info was also 25 hp off for the LT4 and that would get you 586 + 25 = 611 hp. This time last year even GM didn't know exactly what the official, certified power rating would be for 2015 models. Finally, a quote from Keeks that I haven't seen mentioned by anyone here was his statement that, "I am hearing that waiting for 2015 is advisable with engineering tweaks, etc. True hotrod of C7 will be 2016." He didn't, to my knowledge, elaborate on the statement above, so we were left to speculate if the "engineering tweaks" included the Z06 and the "true hotrod" was a ZR1 replacement. You can look at the 4 pages of my website noted in the link if you want direct quotes from Keeks' posts. David And just for fun, a 'granddaughter-o-shop' preview of a convertible spy shot: http://palmeter.com/wp-content/uploa...0/c7p00350.jpg |
Originally Posted by davidwp97
(Post 1585674472)
Speaking of Keeks, some of you probably weren't here during the Keeks saga. He was getting what has turned out to be very reliable info, not 100% (e.g. weight: '2014 will be lightest modern Corvette in history') but very close on almost everything else. I preserved as much of his info as I could at the time and have a website where it is captured.
Concerning the LT4, Keeks said, "2015 LT4 supercharged engine - 586hp - will be an upgrade of Camaro ZL1. I think it is called LT4 so you don't think it is from a C6." However, another miss by Keeks was his statement that the LT1 would be 430 hp, so you power-hungry folks can hope his info was also 25 hp off for the LT4 and that would get you 586 + 25 = 611 hp. This time last year even GM didn't know exactly what the official, certified power rating would be for 2015 models. Finally, a quote from Keeks that I haven't seen mentioned by anyone here was his statement that, "I am hearing that waiting for 2015 is advisable with engineering tweaks, etc. True hotrod of C7 will be 2016." He didn't, to my knowledge, elaborate on the statement above, so we were left to speculate if the "engineering tweaks" included the Z06 and the "true hotrod" was a ZR1 replacement. You can look at the 4 pages of my website noted in the link if you want direct quotes from Keeks' posts. David And just for fun, a 'granddaughter-o-shop' preview of a convertible spy shot: http://palmeter.com/wp-content/uploa...0/c7p00350.jpg From a September 2012 thread titled "Cool Stingray Logo on Fenders:" Post #241 has a summary of all the intel Keeks had provided about the upcoming C7, gathered from various threads. The vast majority of all those individual details turned out to be exactly correct. One of them was that the 2015 Z06 would be a supercharged LT4 with 586 hp (not 583, as was elsewhere misquoted). I'll bet that's spot on. Now for the really cool tease: The last intel / prediction in that summary: "The true hotrod for the C7 will be in 2016." (May be off a word or two, but I'm typing this minutes after reading it.) Which brings me to something I've posted before. On 7-15-2011 Jason posted this in the ZR1 forum: "If I was a betting man, I would put money on a 700 hp ZR1 or equivalent in 2015-2016. I'm just speculating though." Again, I'll bet he wasn't "speculating." And I'll bet the "true hotrod for the C7" will be in 2016, and will be a ZR1-type model, and will have 700-ish hp. If in 30 days the 586 number proves correct, then that will suggest my deduction is a little more likely correct. And if my deduction is correct, we all win my bet. Dave (Yes, I'm OC, and yes, the C7 performance models obviously have me pumped. :cool:) |
Originally Posted by SCM_Crash
(Post 1585671401)
The C6 was a LONG production run...The C7 may not be more than 6 years
C4 = 13 C3 = 15 The C7 will likely be around for a while...just like all the other gens have been. |
That's fair. But, about the C4, lets be honest... The C4 had complete work-overs throughout the generation. Honestly, the C3 had some big changes, but the C4 had complete overhauls. From L98 to LT1 is a BIG jump. 4+3 to 6 speed. Even the interior changed big time.
But I get your point. I'm not sure I care one way or another about the length of the C7 run. At least if it's longer, my car will stay in the "now" generation for a lot longer too. I'm hoping that in 3 years I can sell my current C7 and buy the Z06. |
Originally Posted by DDSLT5
(Post 1585610193)
High center of gravity. High weight. Heat soak monster - are they going to use liquid:air intercooler? Why not just go with turbos? Too easy?
run e85 on it and turn up the wick. a bit radical, but I like the idea. park 4 little tiny turbo in there and have it spool like mad and make a nice driveable 700 hp it would be better with turbos for sure in my book, but then I'm biased. but on the other hand this new blower design is pretty innovative and hopefully the blower impeller will be both more efficient and lighter than the old TVS monster need to see more details on the drive system but it sure looks cool the cost and packaging on this approach is good and GM is still trying to be a poor mans supercar which I'm ok with as maybe someday I can afford it!!! |
since were doing a bit of "musing" I'm hoping the next gen ZR-1 has a
v8 version of the current caddy 420 hp V6 the ZR-1 needs to be a TT DOHC rocket! that will make me sell a kidney and my current LPE LSV 95 ZR-1 to buy it. in the meantime I'm going halltech, boost by speed, and E85 on the C5 TT to get my fix until that day arrives and keeping a couple of vettes stacked in the garage. sorry to pollute the Z06 thread. can't wait to see the new Z06, but I can't wait to BUY the next gen ZR-1 if it meets my performance and price criteria. with the current ZR-1s dipping down in price they are tempting! the C7 has clearly raised the bar in a number of areas and the C7 Z06 will no doubt be spectacular. I for one hope they keep the targa. that's the one rap I have on the C5 Z06 (don't like the fixed roof design). it was a huge achilles heel on the C4, but not so much on the C7 which is pretty stiff now. :thumbs: |
Originally Posted by QUIKAG
(Post 1585649707)
We did a different run one time (Matt the owner of the ZR-1 could attest) with no passengers in either car and we both shifted good and we were DEAD EVEN from 30mph-150+mph. Literally I could look over and see him through his window and he could see me the ENTIRE run. It was the most even race either of us has ever had which is crazy considering the different powerband, gearing, etc. of the LS1 versus LT-5.
Anyway, this is a fake video that was computer generated. :D C4 ZR1 vs C5 - YouTube |
Well, with all the predictions I have to throw mine into the hat...
I think the Z06 is going to be 620HP with (compared to std. Vette)wider body, better racing seats, higher performance brakes, tires, wheels, clutch. I think it is going to be 85K in the top option package. I think GM will have a ZR1 in 2017 that will be 135K in the top option package and will be 720HP via a new engine block with more supercharger boost, higher redline than the Z06, better flowing heads, bigger carbon ceramic brakes and wheels, the hydro formed aluminum frame will be improved to be lighter without strength loss and the aero effects will be exaggerated over the Z06. I could tell you why I predict these specifics but I'd rather simply have all our predictions put into a thread for comparisons when the models come to market and choose a winner.:thumbs: GM does pay attention to the impact new models have on prior gen owners with model-to-model comparisons and their performance ratings. It's also no news to many that a steady, yet increasing, profit on a production line is better than peaks and valleys in sales charts and my predictions support that goal. Lastly, The supercar Vettes will continue to dominate or equal the competition of cars costing twice the price or better. That's what is most important to me!:cheers: I'm happy that the tradition of performance gains are continuing into the next gen. |
Originally Posted by Chicago1
(Post 1585693937)
Are you talking about a different run because in this vid that zr-1 is pulling away in every gear. Cars sound great!!!
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Originally Posted by Rkreigh
(Post 1585693737)
since were doing a bit of "musing" I'm hoping the next gen ZR-1 has a
v8 version of the current caddy 420 hp V6 the ZR-1 needs to be a TT DOHC rocket! that will make me sell a kidney and my current LPE LSV 95 ZR-1 to buy it. in the meantime I'm going halltech, boost by speed, and E85 on the C5 TT to get my fix until that day arrives and keeping a couple of vettes stacked in the garage. sorry to pollute the Z06 thread. can't wait to see the new Z06, but I can't wait to BUY the next gen ZR-1 if it meets my performance and price criteria. with the current ZR-1s dipping down in price they are tempting! the C7 has clearly raised the bar in a number of areas and the C7 Z06 will no doubt be spectacular. I for one hope they keep the targa. that's the one rap I have on the C5 Z06 (don't like the fixed roof design). it was a huge achilles heel on the C4, but not so much on the C7 which is pretty stiff now. :thumbs: K.I.S.S. Keep the rotating mass down. The moving parts at a minimum. The complexity down. The center of gravity low. The cost of production low. The cost of upgrades low. Why mess with a good thing? There's no data that shows a DOHC will help the Corvette. It will just make the motor heavier and more complex for no reason other than to spin it higher (which we don't care about). The beauty of the Chevy small block is that it manages to put out massive power and torque (greater than that of any of the exotics pound for pound) and does it without breaking a sweat, spinning far lower and putting less stress on the motor. Exactly how much more money do you want the motor to cost if they have to use more exotic materials to make the motor more high strung? I say a TT LT1 sounds like a big win. |
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