Breaking News: Is this the C7 ZR1′s Supercharged Powerplant?
 

Breaking News: Is this the C7 ZR1′s Supercharged Powerplant?
by Paul Huizenga on October 8, 2013

http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2013/10/blown-lt1-2.jpghttp://cdn.speednik.com/files/2013/1...-1-400x679.jpg

"While there has been speculation about a C7 Corvette successor to the outgoing Z06 using a small-displacement twin turbo V8, as seen in the Cadillac Elmiraj concept, we haven’t heard much about what will power the Corvette that will eventually replace the 638 horsepower C6 ZR1 lately.

And then, one of our Power Automedia fans slipped the photos you see here over the transom (if you’re under 40, there’s pretty much no chance you’ll understand that reference, but we’re keeping it) and we’re ready to fire up the rumormill once again.

The engine in the photos is definitely an LT1-style, Gen V Chevy small block, as evidenced by the injector cover shape and the fact that the throttle body is consistent with the ones used on the C7′s LT1.

And it’s clearly a twin-rotor supercharged engine with the LSA/LS9 style pulley mounted high on the front, and intercooler plumbing also bearing a resemblance to previous heat exchanger setups. Our contact says this came from a “friend of a friend” inside GM’s prototype center, and that it’s a 6.2 liter engine. Don’t get too hung up on the fact it has a conventional engine-mounted transmission instead of a torque tube and transaxle – for testing purposes it’s a lot simpler to use a conventional transmission.

Could it be a clever fake? Possibly, but take a close look at the shape of the back of the top cover, and compare it to the CAD rendering leaked what seems a lifetime ago:"

http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2013/1...-2-640x480.jpg

Bingo!! Ding, ding, ding!!!:thumbs::rock:
Talk about an exact twin to the KeeksCAD!

Hhm.

That's pretty interesting. Seems the more that trickles out the more such trickles suggest a PD huffer for the vette. Still don't know if we'll get one perf model or two.

Next few months will be fun to watch.

now things are getting interesting!

whoa.... Things thing is going to make big power

Definitely.

Love the throwback style to the C4's LT-4!

http://944hybrids.pbworks.com/f/1247899450/LT1.jpg

That's what I said. I bet it is going to be a LT-4.

i like the lt4 heritage center stripe on intake like the olde lt4's

Gee, are we going to be seeing this through a clear hood window??:D
http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2013/1...-1-400x679.jpg

no clear window i hope!!

:iagree:I could easily live without the window.:D

need ventilation if anything for if going to road race the supercharged version

That engine is going in a test mule. How do i know???

I'd tell but then I'd have to kill you.....

Avalon

I hope not. I think the thing is hideous, just hide it and let it do it's job.

Will it be called the "BlueOx Edition"?

Is that the transmission bolted up to the back of the engine? I assume it was configured that way for testing?

EDIT = Doh, this is mentioned in the article. Ignore my question.

I am thinking two.

Looks like Daddy is about to come home!

~600HP. Don't think its going go after the LS9. LS9 had lots of expensive goodies that drove the cost up. New motor will share more in common with the LT1 than the LS9 shared with the LS3.

This thing have forged pistons/rods? Piston oil squirters? What all would it lack vs. LS9?

lol

To think in 3 months or so we will really know if this is it or not:rock:

I would suggest the KeeksCAD Edition!:cheers:

PS-Don't get me wrong, I'd take it window or not!

Speaking of which, whatever resulted in that? I heard someone got canned? Can someone provide cliffs or a thread pertaining to?

I thought we would see a twin turbo, not another supercharger. Looking forward to finding out in the next few months. were getting closer to having a real Beast on our hands,

I dont think were gonna get a Z06 and a ZR1.

Was hoping it wouldnt be a pd.blower. oh well.

Suurprise. Suurprise. Goll ly Sergeant. Bet ol Tadge & the gang are thrilled to see this photo revealed. Not that it really matters. We all know the hot C7 version is on the horizon. What will be more interesting, is what kind of a ZF tranny or DCT surfaces.

Pretty awesome!

:toetap:


Where has Keeks been?

I miss ALL the excitement that was going on a year ago:crazy:

Maybe L88, they trademarked this according to GM Authority:

General Motors has recently been granted the use of two trademarks for the L88 designation, GM Authority has exclusively learned.

The automaker filed two trademark applications for the L88 name. The first was filed on August 4, 2012 for “exterior and interior badges for motor land vehicles”, while the second was filed on September 18, 2012 for “decals”. The trademarks were then published for opposition in October of 2012 and subsequently approved to the USPTO principal register on January 15, 2013.

The General used the L88 designation in a very select amount of Chevrolet Corvettes from the late 1960′s, of which currently go for over $500,000 at auctions. Essentially, it was a racing engine that could be directly ordered from GM from the factory that boasted 427-cubic-inches (7.0-liters), and is often hailed as the ultimate Corvette engine that’s ever been made to date.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/01/...#ixzz2hAYuYow4

Def LT4, as noted by the similarities to the 96 motor.

The funky thing is, assuming this is the mid-model vette with another trim higher down the road, it puts it in a tight spot, but helps us pinpoint hp numbers.

LSA is 580 in the ZL1, so if this at 600, that's only a moderate bump. LS9 is 638, and expensive, so doubt it'll hit 630hp.

So, odds are it'll be 605hp in Z06-esque tradition, and also 609hp is the middle point between 580 and 638. Relatively minor bump vs LSA, but then again LT1 vs LS3...

I say 700hp easy. If not more than 638, then why redo?

To have a High Performance version of the C7 Corvette that has an MSRP well under $100,000. It does not need to have more horsepower than the mighty C6 ZR1 to be of interest to many potential buyers. It won't be a "redo" of anything other than, possibly, in name.

I was hoping it would be N/A.

:cool:

And look just like the old lt1 4 lines in the red / aluminum and the keeks cad was spot on :cheers:

Z06, Z07, ABC, XYZ.....

If the new C7s are selling between $55,000-$68,000+, and the next version is suspected to be "about" $100,000, wouldn't it be easier to slap another $20k on top of the base model and yeild much more than the suspected 600 hp in the next version (widebody or otherwise)?

ON ANOTHER NOTE:
As I sat and waited for the local Chevrolet to open this morning, I was extremely excited to witness the first set of C7s roll into El Paso!!! Right place, right time!!! So, first and foremost, congrats to the three newest owners!! They were delivered to the dealership I was waiting at so it was a good morning! Unfortunately, no owners would be available before I left to say CONGRATS!!!

:woohoo::rock: Wow ........... Are Ox and I going to have some fantastic low mileage pre owned to choose from once this baby hits the street. :D

Please GM...PLEASE!!! NO STUPID WINDOW!!!!!

I say 1000 rwhp...after all, isn't that enough?:D

But you'll have to deal with ill fitting interiors, poorly fitted rear wing, LED's out in the information system, pink, leaking fluid under the front fender, orange peel paint (well, you are probably use to that one already:D)...did I forget anything?:lol:

:thumbs:Yup!:cheers:

Add me to that list! :rofl:

Because they want to sell the cars and not make a super expensive car no-one will buy. Seriously - $130k corvette?

The LS9 in the ZR1 only share a block with the normal corvette ls(3); everything else is unique: crank, rods, pistons, valves, heads, etc. This and the fact the engines are hand built, drive up the cost significantly.

Now imagine taking the same short block of the LT1, and throwing a different intake/heads/cam on it? You know, like what they did on the LS1 vs LS6?


600 HP is nothing to sneeze at . . .

Awesome, I love this stuff. As things were dying off we got a little spark. Thanks OP! Question is whether a Z06 will be on the line or not. Hoping its in excess of 600hp.

Is the assembly attached to the back of this the clutch housing that transitions into the torque tube?

Compare with real deal LT1 setup:

http://speed-tech.zorly.com/pictures...n-w-wheels.jpg

Yup, Looks like the new ZR1-LT4 motor to me. Notice the lettering Font on the supercharger top is exactly like the font on the LT1 motor. It is an exact match.

it will be called ''L88''

Obviously a ZR1 engine, since it's a supercharged LT1. The better question is if the Z06 is dead or not. Or at least the GS. There's no way we're going to see all 3 back. And the one that makes more sense to ax is the Z06, since a larger engine just doesn't make sense at this time. We'll find out soon enough :D.

I tend to agree. It is well known that the 2009 ZR1 only came to be (in addition to the then already existing Z06), because GM wasn't ready to do the C7 yet and was trying to re-energize popularity of the C6 run for a few more years. (and I am very happy they did :yesnod:)

I too believe there will only be one Z06/ZR1-level high-performance model C7 (unless of course we see a nine or ten-year run for the C7...), and I believe it will be called the Stingray L88 Code and will have this "LT4" PD SC'd motor. :thumbs:

IF we see 2 more models, I think this will be the Z06 model engine. I think the ZR1 will have an LT5. Same engine name as the original ZR1's of the 90's.

I was hoping N/A motor (lighter, less heat), but will see the final product

The ZR1 was well into development long before the economy crashed. It was not a spur of the moment decision in 2008 to produce another model for the 2009 model year.

If you mean a DOHC engine, maybe, but it seems like it would be very difficult to fit one in the low hood profile existing now. I believe that was one of the reasons they stated when asked about sticking with the pushrod.

Back in Jan/Feb there was some info out that they planned this generation for a five year run, true or not, who knows? However, if that's the case then I would expect only one Hi Po version. Keep in mind that the ZR1 exists only because the C7 project was shelved back in '08. The ZR1 was designed and produced to keep fresh blood in the Corvette line up. This from Juechter on vid from Carlysle back in '11 or '12. It's in the vid section I think. I believe that they will not neccessarily set out to outpower the ZR1 and leave it as the classic it is. This would be good news for those current ZR1 owners down the road.

While I too have a much greater appreciation for N/A engines, Forced Induction is here to stay. It is simply the most efficient way to boost power levels and maintain acceptable fuel economy. Which is a factor like it or not. If gas jumps this coming summer like it did last summer, we will be looking at premium fuel flirting with $5/gal. If they want to keep Corvette affordable and obtainable, a huge factor in it's success, it must also be affordable to own and drive. Forced induction is how they make that happen without adding cubes and increasing fuel demands. The supercharger is the probably the most effective and reliable way to do that. I would look for this engine to produce about 100-120 more HP than the LT1.

If they can then put it into the current chassis, adding perhaps carbon ceramic brakes and fitting for a little more tire, maybe they can sell it for a base price of $75-$80K, or just a slightly more than the Z06.

This is just my opinion based on observation of the auto industry, and I do reserve my American Right to be full of Sh*t. :D

This is not true. The ZR1 was in development well before the crash/great recession BS.

As for this motor... I think people are off-base trying to compare to the existing base/Z06/ZR1 structure of the C6. I think we're going to see the standard Stingray and one hi-po variant. GM would be stupid to make a $130k Corvette in this economy. Just look at how well the Vipers are selling.

Dying off? It's all just ramping up! We're just a month into deliveries!:rofl:

:iagree:

To be pedantic, the original ZR1's were in the 70's (1970-1972).

This engine is already in one of those mules we have seen running around.

The fact that we know more about that super charged version almost guarantees my inclination to believe that there will only be 2 Hipo versions of the Stingray. We already have the Z51 which is quite the capable performer to takcle most exotics and then there will be the ZR1 to kill off the rest of the pack....I doubt very much there is need for a Z06 version to fill in the gap in the middle.

Like I said in the article, don't get hung up on the fact it has a transmission bolted to it instead of a torque tube bellhousing. I would bet that they are running these around in a Silverado test mule, since that truck is already set up for the Gen V engine, there'd be a lot of room under the hood for better access, and nobody would give a pickup truck a second glance on the street.

I'm gonna challenge my readers to do some CSI work on the top-down photo; it should be possible to determine the pulley diameter by counting pixels and comparing it to objects of known size (throttle body, for one) and figure out how much boost they could be running.

since when is the Z51 a hi-po version?????

I highly doubt this will be designated L88, I think that will be saved for something more exceptional. The original L88, only 20 units were sold.

Actually that's the number from 1967 production.

There were 80 Corvette's produced with the L88 in 1968, and 116 more in 1969, for a total of 216.

911 say wha?

Originally Posted by Stingray23
... Same engine name as the original ZR1's of the 90's.

The ZR1 package never referred to the engine although the engine is part of it. Z refers to suspension and the other letters and numbers after the Z refer to sub RPO requirements. Sometimes, Vettes use the engine code for the name plate such as L88, L98, LT1 etc, but it is not the RPO code.
The 70-72 ZR1 RPO received the LT1 engine, the 90-94 ZR1 received the LT5 engine, and the last ZR1 got the LS9.
Build codes and option codes have been with Chevy since the 60s and they haven't changed. New components get sub codes.

:iagree:

(and I believe there were only 53 original ZR1's?)

Actually, GM does reuse option codes. In 1965 the Z16 was for the 396 Malibu SS. In 1978 Z16 was for the Sport Décor/Black Knight( El Camino). Since 2010 the Z16 is for the Grand Sport.

In 1978 the LS9 was a 350 V8 with a 4 Bbl carburetor. Since 2009, it has been a 6.2L V8 with a supercharger.

In 1963, the Z06 was for a special performance package on the Corvette. In 1978 the Z06 was for luxury interior Equipment(non corvette). Then it was special model C5 and again with the C6.

I could go on for hours, but you get my point.

:rofl::rofl:

What motor does everyone think the Wide Body vert we have seen spy pics of is getting?

The C7 Z51 is pretty tricked out...much more so than any previous gen. The electronic diff itself is a huge performance improvement. Look at the brakes too. There is a reason why this car performs as well as it does....the #'s at various tracks show this too. Search the threads if you still doubt it.

Funny right!...it'll run circles around your GS that's for sure.

Oh great... did you really just go there, again... :crazy:

just playin with Sam :D

The lt4 engine (supercharged) is going in the wide body vert.

...and only 3 ZL1s were put in a Vette in 69 which was a L88 with an aluminum block at Jim Hall and Bruce McLaren's request. Only two exist, both in Florida, one with an auto.
69 ZL1 Camaros were made in 69. Yenko got some.
Since the high performance LT1 is all aluminum, it should be a ZL1 if it is naturally aspirated.
Since they have re registered L88, that will be cool also. Many engine codes have been revived even the LS6.
It would be a shame to use the L88 code for a blown engine as it would be to use LT5 if it didn't have double OHCs.

The blown engine in the picture is the Cadillac CTV engine for release in 2014. Both Caddy and Vette will have their V and Z cars at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show in January.

http://www.autoline.tv/journal/?cat=1513

Start the vid half way at 0:30:00and again at 1:00:00

I hope there are two high performance engines, one blown and the other not, same as the C6. 560hp L88/ZL1 and a 700hp LT4.

But will it out run it in a straight?

The pics of the rotors would say otherwise.

yeah, thanks for the "Search for the threads" tip....your answer still doesn't explain how the Z51 which has 460 hp (with optional NPP)is a high power variant of the base LT4 460 hp (with optional NPP) engine.

Ahhhh, there's the rub. High PERFORMANCE is a broader term than high POWER.

again, no one disputes the ediff, brakes, Mag-Rheo shocks, PTM etc..are a huge leap forward for the base (well, actually just trickle-down tech from my car) BUT that does not make it a high horsepower variant ......Z06 (505hp) and ZR1(638hp) were also "tricked out" but also added significant hp to the base/GS(436hp). Get It now?

I meant that they would use the engine designation LT5 like they did for the 90's ZR1, and as they are using LT1 and LT4 for the stingray and Z. We'll see

Drivers race.

Yet another substitute for the non-synonymous term high PERFORMANCE :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Nothing you mentioned is any better than the C6 Z51. I'd say the performance increase we see (on track #'s) for the C7 Z51 is due to running Michelin tires.

:iagree:

so, hi-per instead of hi-po? or HYPER!! for a ZR1/Z06 model:cheers:

whether or not we get two HI-PO C7s depends on whether GM needs forged internals to max out the LT line of engines on 91 octane.

Forged bits are what made the ZR1 expensive. Ok, carbon fiber too but most of it comes stock now, and the rest can be a package. The difference between the best LSA and the LS9 was only 60hp. With better castings, who knows, there may be no reason for GM to spend $$, and therefore could offer the ZR1 at Zo6 prices.

Question is do we really need two hi-po versions of the Corvette, remember NEED, not WANT?

The only reason to "need" 2 is price.

Most don't mind ponying up some extra cash for something "better" than what the masses have, but going over $100k or even getting close to it for that matter is for those who have true disposable cash.
2 levels of bad asses is a win win for all if you ask me.

Besides, as Americans we have come accustomed to having all things offered in small, medium, and large....GM may as well take advantage of this pre-programmed state of mind.

Z07=supercharged ZR1=twinturbo.

:yesnod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

At 2:18, the the ZR1 was never in the plan for the C6, it exists as the result of the extended lifecycle, economy, crash, bankruptcy, etc.

I think that's kind of a... vague statement.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...k/viewall.html

"An hour with chief engineer Tadge Juechter reveals that this is indeed a Z06 upgraded with the best tech in GM's arsenal. A ZR1 was never part of the original C6 plan, but, at an early program review, the Z06's proposed aluminum frame, carbon-fiber parts, and LS7 engine so impressed CEO Rick Wagoner that he reportedly wondered aloud, "Geez, if that's what you can do with $60,000, I wonder what a $100,000 Corvette would look like?" With no more formal authorization than that, Juechter's posse launched a skunkworks effort dubbed "Blue Devil" -- a nod to the boss's Duke alma mater."

I remember reading that awhile ago. I also remember reading somewhere else that said conversation happened at the after party for the c6 Z06 premier. Which would mean even if they planned on say, 2011 as the last model year, they could have gotten two years out of the zr1.

Well, of course we can speculate what he really meant all we want, and who really knows? However, I take it as if the the C7 were on target as originally planned, they would've never actually produced the ZR1, I mean, that is what the chief engineer said in this vid. Sure, it was in 'development', I remember reading plenty about the blue devil. But he did say that if it were not for the extended run, the ZR1 would not exist, not really that vague to me.

Anyway, I just posted the vid to cite my source behind the post he quoted. :cheers:

I guess in your world high performance is only measured by high horse power :crazy2:

The answer to that turned out to be....just like the other wide body C6's, only with a dumb window that we will spend way to much $$ on a coating for.

I too, would like to see what a $100,000 Corvette could LOOK like.
Instead of letting just the techies have all the fun with R&D, how about letting the design team give us something truly exotic looking...something sexy and sinister :yesnod:

I think it would even be cool to let the public have some say in part of the process...... The next American Corvette Idol!!!:lol: