I used to have a Porsche. Sold it. Now I'm buying the C7. Like others said in this thread, because I like it. I really don't care what others think, and at 54, I don't need to compare Pen!$ sizes with others. I personally think German cars, while good cars, are tremendously overpriced. Ferraris are stupid expensive, but if you want to spend the money, knock yourself out. To each his own.

[QUOTE=B747VET;1585174661]There are so many things wrong with ings.

Why?

You insult a post and give no reason.

Anyone who thinks ego does not drive nearly every human action is blind to reality. How many buildings have names on them? Roads? We swim in ego soup everyday. If you find my post objectionable or any particular of it, I'd be glad to respond at length.

I took the time to express WHY I find certain nation's vehicles as unacceptable. Maybe it was the Japanese POW that broke his hands rather than dig any more coal for the WWII Japanese Navy that convinced me of my stance to GTRs, but I told you. What have you told me?

How often do you shave? Do you change your clothes with any frequency? When do you wash your car? Only when it's dirty?

Ego allows us to function with others and maintain standards that others can rely on. Respecting others is a form of egotism. 'I will allow you your space but I want mine.', is a function of ego.

Not acknowledging that ego drives nearly everything is preposterous. Look at the back of all those mini-vans with the family, cats and dogs. Do you believe that this does not slake an ego need? Do you think the stances taken on tail lights is a form of artistic discernment and the issuance of that opinion some type of necessary stand?

It's EGO.

Otherwise we are reduced to mechanistic actions and our purposes driven by only logic and needs noted. We would not be here in this meta-space. We would be looking for the most efficient means to transport us in the terrain we travel. We would be physicists trapped in a college of humanity. (Ego, ego, ego. Did I mention ego.)

Ego is everything. It just needs to be tempered to allow other egos, with their predilections, to discover their way. Otherwise we descend into unloving uniformity or complete asocial independence.

Philosophically, it is that allowance which permits us to co-exist and profit from our interactions. I do not defend hubris. I defend our differences.

Oh, and Poopschers are still UGLY. Yep.

It does. The 911 has been around nearly 2 years now, and the C7 is brand new. When the GT-R first came out, it too stole attention from Corvettes and even some Ferraris at car shows, especially among the F&F or Grand Turismo crowd. Same thing in group tests between the LFA and 458/etc in the UK. Doesn't necessarily mean it was styled better. People's easy attraction to the new, overtly aggressive styling, plus heartfelt affinity toward a hometown hero newly reborn, can often draw a larger crowd than understated elegance.
You'll also note that C&D had reservations about Corvette's transmission performance (and noted none for the Porsche's PDK)...yet they both scored the same score for transmission.

Not really. Thanks to a lower price, the Corvette had a 19-point lead going into this test before the engines are even fired up.

I'm having such a grand time expressing myself, I figured I'd comment on this.

It was a new frog against a used prince. A legitimate test will come but when it does, the frog will be revealed for what it is. An impractical, overpriced device.

The Corvette is at least not overpriced. That is why they told you the Poopscher has little value, at all, in any way, ever. They do not assign the value ratings until after the performances are evaluated. This is known to make the opinion expressed more valid. That is, the Poopscher is an invalid choice if you think that money has worth.

Many of us do. This platform actually drives economic theory in a competitive world. Perhaps not at the pyramid's top but certainly for the caravans passing by.

So, you are whining about this. There are many fans of the Poopscher and they have many outlets so folks such as yourself, can be bitter about being proved, in non-judgmental terms, effing wrong. Go there and drink your designer waters. It will suit you and allow the bruises to heal.

IMHO, the 2013 911 looks, more or less, the same as Butzi's sketch in 1962. Not bad, but not new. The C7 Stingray looks NEW. I would have given the 911 a "1" for external style and the Stingray a "10" !!

Also, the 911 got 5 points for having a backseat for toddlers. Give me a break. No self-respecting Porschephile takes the kids in the 911, thats what the SUV is for !!

I have taken my twin 7 year olds in mine plenty of times, they love it.

Style is subjective. I hate contemporary, to me that is what the Vette represents. I think the Vette looks good, but I am not confident it will age well, I also think it is over-styled, to many lines. I prefer Classic looks that never go out of style, and that is the 911 all day long. The fact they have not had to make any drastic changes to its body style speaks for itself.

The nicest Vette's are from the 60's. No recent Vette has aged well, actually I can not think of any recent car from GM that has aged well. Cadillacs are the worst, 5-7 years after they come out they look dated.

The Corvette had a 19-point lead going into the comparison, before a single wheel was turned. At the end, after wheels were turned, that 19-point advantage was dimineshed to only a 5-point lead. 5 points out of 207 points to the winner. You don't think there's value there in the Porsche? Do you think that's a huge difference in value?
The value of some items on that Porsche (dynamic cornering lights, rear wiper, built-in roof rack attachment points, higher safety content, traction in wet/cold conditions, etc) doesn't even enter into their equation. You cannot claim that it doesn't ever enter into other people's equations.
That's not whining. That's just pointing out a fact about this test.

Bottom line in a free market is that a product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. Porsche produces a car that starts at $85k because people are willing to pay for it. GM's Corvette starts at a much lower price because people aren't willing to pay $85k for it.

One other thing: Just because the Corvette is a great objective performance value, that doesn't necessarily make other cars overpriced. It could mean those other things (911, SL, BMW 6er, Jaguar XK/F-Type) are priced about right for their market segment, while the Corvette is the exception (in both performance and overall fit & finish quality).

That's why there are lower and upper tether attachment points for child seats in the back of the 911. :rofl:
http://www.porscheownersmanuals.com/.../pg_45_img.jpg
The standard front passenger seat has them built in too. Believe it or not, the 911 appeals beyond the Porschephile demographic too...
Just because an SUV does something better, that doesn't negate the 911 doing some things better than another car. Besides, SUVs tend to score consistently lower in Powertrain, Chassis, and Fun to Drive scores than either of these cars.
In terms of "engineered for purpose," I'd wager there are many more instances of 911 back seats being used for kids than there are instances of people tracking bone stock Corvettes to 10/10ths and replicating magazine test results.

As a special comment this one is. "The Corvette had a 19-point lead going into the comparison, before a single wheel was turned."

You think that they made a value comparison before they ran the cars? Really? Even with the journalistic standards in decline that is a fully incredible statement.

Support that. If you are just chatting, it's OK. You still have to be able to work around giving value to a mechanical assembly without testing it. I mean, what car mag just views a vehicle and gives a total comparison valuation. Jeez!

Get that Poopcher taste out of your mouth and spew sense.

Oh and it's ugly. Like any other aging eccentric. Like me, but I can drive beauty.

I do admit that the popularity, shown by purchasing, favors the Teuton-mobile over the past four years. If anything they sell like clockwork in the high 20Ks. Corvette looks to be almost spastic in comparison. That's because the money at the top never suffers. It's the 'A' list versus the 'B' list. But as the one fellow said, "You ask me why, if I am so smart, I'm not rich. I ask you, if you're so rich, why aren't you smart."

Where did I say that? The 19-point lead was for As-Tested Price. There was no Value category, though it's reasonable to assume that's what the final score means.

1. It depends.
2. This also depends.
3. When it's dirty and I'm in the mood.
4. See #3.

Bragging about credentials (your car included) is probably the most disgusting form of ego worship.

http://i39.tinypic.com/20gb3og.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/wv24qt.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/35cpr2p.jpg

After reading this test I've come to the conclusion that the author ramped up 6 of the 10 subjective catagories to help the 911 in final tally. I have now spent enough time in both cars to realize both cars are equal in driver comfort. The C7 was extremely comfortable when I spent time just sitting in it as well as driving around in it. I even went to the Porsche dealership and sat in a new 911 to validate that. The ergonomics is clearly in favor of the Corvette since it is a driver centric layout with everything angled towards the driver so that everything is logically located and within easy reach. The center screen on the 911 will certainly have glare on it during certain sun washed light, where the Corvette will never have that problem. The very definition of the term ergonomics is exemplified in the Corvette interior. The features/amenities is also in favor of the Corvette. It is far more sophisticated on the electronics front with Heads Up display, track data recorders, Onstar, Mylink Nav, Magnetic Selective Ride Control, etc. etc. Interior and Exterior design is obviously in favor of the Corvette as almost all reviews I've read indicate what I've always thought. The 911 is a massive design compromise and will continue to look older, dated, and further out of touch with current avant garde design trends. Porsche just cannot design. They are incapable of exciting automotive design.

How many miles did you drive the Corvette? Your admission that you didn't drive the 911 renders your opinion almost useless.
HUD and OnStar are nice features, but they aren't a replacement for proper night lighting nor seating capacity, nor better sightlines to the road. Porsches with Sport Chrono also have data recording, and the electronics in the 911 aren't behind overall. You can put the nav right in front of you, allowing less time and refocusing to what's happening on the road.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8020/7...8d7246ecb6.jpg

"The DVD-audio drive plays CDs and audio DVDs and is MP3-compatible. Audio playback of video DVDs is also supported. A six-disc CD/DVD autochanger integrated into PCM is available as an option.
You can download the performance display data from the Sport Chrono Package and data from the electronic logbook via the USB port. You can also transfer up to 10,000 tracks in MP3 format to the internal hard drive (or Jukebox)* of the PCM and play them from there."

MSRC didn't seem to do anything notably better than Porsche's combination of PASM and PDCC.
Then there are the other things you can't get on the Corvette at any price (adaptive cruise, folding mirrors with reverse tilt function, parking sensors, etc.).

How about that back-up camera and the dual fresnel technology tail lights that the 911 doesn't have! All linked to that Hi resolution screen which is ergonomically canted towards the corvette driver.

How about you tell me how many miles you actually drove the C7.
The back up camera isn't going to help you much at the front. Nor will it tell you if that Dodge Charger five carlengths back is interested in giving you a ticket. The rear widow wiper on the 911 does, as well as making backing up much easier.
Tell me the real-world benefit of dual fresnel technology over what the 911 has. Which are active with respect to braking power, and will automatically go into emergency mode following a panic stop to warn approaching cars about a dangerous situation.

Right...

http://i41.tinypic.com/9qadc8.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/29xc043.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/15z5iqw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2jb47br.jpg

Gotta be honest here....... despite the idea that it's been the same theme for so very long now....... I do happen to agree that the Porsche is a better looking car than the "edgy" risks GM took on and failed to deliver with in the C7.:hide:

Oh and before anyone condemns me for that thought......appearance of any car is........ SUBJECTIVE!

You can point to the measured testing and say, "there is no argument here!"

But you can't make that comment on appearance.

I like the clean lines and new take on the traditional 911.....even if it is a pretty timid take on the up-dates and changes.

The new Corvette styling gets a 10 out of 10 for courage and willingness to take a risk........but so much of it falls flat with me. Some of it is flat out UGLY. The C6 it replaces was a much better looking car IMO.

Okay show of hands, who participating in this thread and or other threads involving Porsche is paid directly or indirectly by Porsche AG?