That was already addressed in Other Cars section.
You're not going to get Porsche levels of build quality in everything else (interior fit & finish, panel gaps, etc) for a $1000 investment into your Corvette (which have their own share of issues).

If you want a wider view of overall quality, consider this from 2011:
"J.D. Power and Associates has named the Porsche 911 sports coupe as the most dependable vehicle on the road in the 2011 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS).
The 2011 VDS analyzed issues with vehicles from the 2008 model year during a recent 12-month period, tracking how many problems were reported for every 100 vehicles of a given model. While the average model had 151 problems per 100 vehicles, or about 1.5 problems per vehicle, the Porsche 911 line had only 68 problems per 100 vehicles, less than half the average. The performance of the 911 suggests that many vehicles had no issues reported."
http://www.luxurycarsnewengland.com/?p=100

This is silly guys....
The C7 will be hitting the streets, track, and strip in growing numbers... as owners and "reviewers" get used to it, they will probably gain the "confidence" that they seemed to be lacking in the pre-production cars.

The C7 wins in Price and Objective assessments.... the Subjective stuff will come in time.

The reality is that more folks can afford a $55K C7 than a $65K+ Porsche... but those that want the Porsche and can afford it, will more than likely buy it.

No different than it has always been, except this time, they are buying the "Objectively" lesser car.

Nothing to see... move along.

*Edit*
Currently, in ALMS GT Championship Standings:
1. Chevrolet - 151
2. BMW - 124
3. SRT - 115
4. Ferrari - 89
5. Porsche - 79

But BE PREPARED! When ALMS switches to Subjective assessment for the Championship... Porsche will be #1.
Despite being in 5th place, the Drivers are having a better experience while doing it.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That model is over 10 years old, Porsche should be ashamed the way they handled it. That said GM is handling the LS7 in the same manner so slow down and look in the mirror. 2009 and up has no issues and 2006 and up has so few it is not even worth talking about. Anyone that buys a 996 Porsche besides the Turbo is rolling the dice, that is why they are so cheap. Worst 911 ever made IMO.

Then you're not old enough. There were NUMEROUS reviews complaining about 911's becoming too civilized. Since you love being literal, you are correct, no one ever bemoaned the trailing throttle oversteer demon by name being exorcised , but there is NO DOUBT that it is what every rag was talking about. And yes, Porsche has (and does) get a pass on the Boxster/Cayman need for more power except for Car and Driver. Certainly, the chassis is not stressed based on the amount of power that Porsche is WILLING to offer in the Boxster/Cayman. The same can be said of the Miata and the Subaru/Toyota twins.
Reality is that high powered sports cars will be laden with electronic "nannies", the electronics, at a level, re-write the rules of physics. Look at the GT-R.... does that car do ANYTHING approaching it's very high limits without the electronics? Obviously, no. Look at modern combat planes which are not flyable without the myriad of electronics.

Jimmy

Nah, they really don't.

There you go again submitting opinion as fact. Wrong.
First, you have no way to know this. Second, there is no difference. And quite honestly, (I'm guessing you have never played team sports) - Umpires very often DO call plays based on personal bias.. ie. trends of a player/team , personal bias etc. Umps are human too - just as you are biased, other humans are too.

Ridiculous statement. Look up the definition of Cabal please. By it's very definition a company can't be a Cabal.

Valid to who? To you? To the overwhelming majority of potential customers who buy a 911, Cayman, C7, or any other sports car?
You are either delusional and/or dishonest. I would wager all the money I have less than 1% of people who buy a 911 do so specifically because of a backseat, and it's all weather performance.

Is it a good car? sure. But you hit the nail on the head with the second sentence.

I think you assume too much when reading my posts. If what I say upsets you, I apologize. But I never really did like when people post on forums like this just to 'stir the pot'. Being attached to a nameplate is fine, but going to the extent you do on this forum is a little much.

Or it could be that the C7 is a better drivers car. Why do you even bother addressing this?


There you go again, trying to tell other people what they just said. Does this ever stop? How can you expect people to take anything you write seriously when you constantly try to frame their statements in a way that is disingenuous.
I know this is your 'shtick', but c'mon. All those quotes were from only like 2 of your posts. Try addressing what people say, not what you wish they said. You aren't running for office in here. :lol:

Exactly.
Well, as defined by who? Subjective feel based on personal perception?
Journalists opinions? You mean the same journalists who survive on ad revenue from companies who spend a huge amount on marketing with the same entities that put out the articles?
I have already seen comparisons where the 'journalist' places the C7 above cars that have been judged 'better' than a 911 in many of the categories that have been mentioned. Yet somehow that changes when another journalist from another organization 'tests' these two cars?
I think we can all agree that 'subjective' is the key word here. I merely state that the 'subjective' aspect is part of a process that started many decades ago, and won't change overnight.


Quoting MT is a bad start.
Are you really trying to disprove what I said by asking if a 60k CTS-V luxury sedan is less popular as a weekend track car than a 2 seat Miata (that costs half the price or less)? In what world does that statement even make sense? Not only are there far fewer CTS-Vs simply because of price, but it is a car from a completely different segment. How bout comparing a Boxster to a Miata - which do you see more on the autocross scene?


Key words there - 'to me'. What is 'reasonable' to you does not mean it is reasonable to others who buy cars for a different reason than you.

Why yes, I can be sure of it. :)

That's because most people don't buy a Porsche to 'drive' it -which is exactly my point.

Exactly. I don't want to hear about Porsche's superior quality when the aforementioned model years 911, Cayman and Boxster have had a major issue. Everyone acts like Porsche or other German brands have no dents and are perfect and never have any problems. They are no different than any other manufacturer around the world. No one is perfect. Not GM. Not Ferrari. Not Porsche. Not Tesla. Not MB. Not anyone. The way GM has handled the LS7 issues is a disgrace, in the same fashion as Porsche with their problem. But, somehow, with Porsche, it gets swept under the covers and everyone acts like they're bulletproof and the best thing since sliced bread. Yet, American cars are garbage. Please.

:iagree: You nailed it! :thumbs:

:cheers:

$1000 (actually, the quote said $650 to $1000) for an engine tear down, mainshaft replacement and bearings in a Porsche engine?

In the words of one of my favorite actors, Sam Elliott - "Ah doubt it" !

I'll believe that when I see a copy of an invoice, not some undocumented second hand quote. :toetap:

Are you opining that the IMS issue means there is no build quality in the rest of the car??

Yea, they really do.

And let me be more direct in what I said (re: "I think"); I know it to be true.

BTW, if you use the "quote" function the name of who you are quoting is included in the quote, making it much easier to know who you are posting to.

Proof??

ca·bal noun \kə-ˈbäl, -ˈbal\ : a small group of people who work together secretly

Same Apples and Oranges Comparisons!
 

Slow and Steady Wins the Race

The 2014 Chevrolet Corvette is fast. Terrifyingly fast at times. It dares even the best drivers to dial back the electronic nannies. And whatever your skill level, the Stingray's safety nets remove the driver from the equation in a way that also removes some small bit of the experience.

The 2014 Porsche Cayman S is the sports car distilled down to its most pure components. It mixes power and handling in such perfect proportion that driver aids are laughably unnecessary. And its higher build standard yields a sophistication the Stingray can't match. The little Porsche lacks the Corvette's bravado (it won't even do burnouts), and it struggles in any objective measure of speed relative to the Stingray.

But it doesn't matter. The Cayman S is a masterfully executed sports car that makes the numbers virtually irrelevant. It lulls its driver into a state of oneness unmatched by the Stingray. And in doing so it wins this test.

They are at least putting there finger on it! Race cars use TC! Cars now use AWD which is a form of TC. AWSteering is a handling and traction aid. They should be setting the cars up to their liking and letting the resulting times be secondary! They are getting it, since, these variables are spliting hairs to a smaller and smaller degree. And that makes that excuse less and less significant.:thumbs:

:rock:

Race cars = road cars? Here's a racer, Dario Franchitti, telling you why that's not necessarily the case.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/6...ofranchitt.jpg

You've hit the nail on the head with this statement. Been racing Corvettes for many years... compete against lots of Vipers. People who think the cars can't handle don't know squat. When you're going that much faster and have that much more power at your disposal it's more demanding to drive. I've hopped back in a SpecMiata and Honda S2000s and I sort of chuckle when I'm driving fast laps... it's so easy.

!
 

But, lets face it the ideal scene would be for a Vette to still have a 5.7L(less low end power under the curve) and be making 500hp and 400lb of TORQUE.:thumbs::hide: BUT, THAT WOULDN'T BE SO GOOD FOR THE TRUCKS AND MPG(I guess?) THOUGH!:ack:

:rock:

If there are numerous than you should be able to find at least two. Make sure they say the 911 is less of a driver's car because of it too.

They don't get a pass. It's because the Cayman's power is properly matched to what the chassis can do. Chris Harris doesn't seem to have problems getting it sideways when he wants:
Obviously, if you're going to be attacking the Nurburgring with its 100 mph average speeds (have you?), then the Toyobarus will seem underpowered. But on the road, where conditions and visibility limit your pace, that's less of an issue. It has no problems overpowering its tires here:

The electronics don't re-write anything about the rules of physics. They just require us to think beyond simplistic power/wt ratios; they are simply using the rules of physics that previously hadn't been employed before.
As for the GT-R, only the AWD is not defeatable (as well as the ABS, but that's true for practically all cars). It sets its fastest times on the Nurburgring with the stability/traction systems off.
Combat planes...the analogy seems to apply to various Ferraris and to the F12 in particular. Autocar, Motor Trend, and TopGear didn't give the F12 a free pass on that. Why do you think they would give it to Porsche? Oh, that's right: The point your missing is that the Cayman/911 doesn't appear to knife its partner in the back, even with the stability/traction systems off.

Could be, but unlike you I rely on more than one source before making a conclusion. The C7 could be better suited to Laguna Seca than the Cayman.

There you go again, trying to answer for others rather than letting them answer for themselves. They are more than welcome to answer them, as are you (good luck of that happening!).

I did address what they said. The poster, in his post, insinuated that journalists somehow give Porsche a free pass for its lack of power in the Boxster/Cayman. Yet in the same post he described how they complained about Porsches getting soft.
I'm no running for office anywhere. I'm just talking about cars.