No matter the result, NO MATTER THE RESULT,
The C7 WINS BIGTIME
even being seriously compared with those two rigs./
:party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

I agree 100%. Haters get it out of your head...the 991 is a totally different animal. I too find the twistes early in the AM too!

I also ran 11.7 and my best trap was 118.5

That's right at what I ran with my C6 Z06 when it was stock (at +3000 DA). Pretty good for the P-car considering the hp/torque differential.

Yeah this kid probably spends all day watching youtube videos,and gets the rest of his information on Google..

Lee...he doesn't have any, but he once drove a V6 Mustang rental car in 2005.
:lolg:
S.

F12 is a GT, not a track-biased hardened version of an already very sporty car. Which the AMG Black Series is. The Ferrari equivalent would be the HGTE pack or GTO version that comes down the road. You have a point about MT's penchant for focusing on track manners, rather than giving more insight on how these cars behave on the road. I'm not sure Randy even drives any of these cars on the road. In the past, the various C6s have fared better on the track than they have on the road.
Randy's bias illustrates a point. Going into this matchup, the Corvette already had 3 distinct advantages (for him) over the Porsche. Yet he still felt the Porsche earned its top spot. Which suggests that the 911 really is that good.

My bad. I read your question wrong.

...and from CF members who have owned both cars and can appreciate what each brings to the market. Unlike you (I'm guessing?).
Lee, why don't you answer the question: Do you have any problem whatsoever with a test that shows a Viper to be 4-5s ahead of a Corvette, yet the Corvette beats the Viper even before price is factored into the equation?

If GM comes back and say 50k for the c7 but 100K for the same vette but with much better craftsmanship, more refined, better feel, better handling, better materials and comes with a neat dragon symbol- would you go for the 100K Vette?

If you say no, the c7 is perfect for you. If you opted for the 100K, the 911 is up your alley. Not all but most of the decision are related to economics and perception. Most C7 owners will never understand why someone would spend 250K on a car while the c7 can eat it alive. But there are people out there that will pay extra for other things besides 0-60 times and 1/4mile times. Sure the C7 is a magnificent sports car, but its really a bang for the bucks sports and that's really the main targeted audience. With the bang for the bucks concept, you will not have cool toys the other manufacturers overcharge for.

Just keeping it real.

Slower less powerful cars usually are more comfortable to drive at their limit. ;) ...

I agree the 911s inspires confidence.

Take a look at Scott's response to the Skanks observations:

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9567...3.html#9494396

Hey Scott,

There is an individual over at CorvetteForum.com who reported last month that this test was coming. He was at the track and talked to, at least, a few of you guys. Don't worry, he didn't say much.

The reason I bring it up because there are some interesting things that occurred there, none of which was mentioned in your piece. Here is written quote from the poster:

"I knew the minute that Corvette matched the F12 at Laguna that this car was a rock star...They told me that the steering was better than the 911 and that the handling was a toss up. The car did not have the latest suspension settings since it was a pre-production car on display at Laguna all weekend. The engineers reset the new software settings and immediatly [sic] went out and matched the F-car. On one hot lap I watched what Porsche does best, swap ends and spin out at turn 11 after entering too hot."

My question is how can you say the 911 is the best driver's car when it spun out? I understand the Corvette has snap oversteer at the limit and is liable to spin out, especially since it's a RWD sports car. But I don't understand how you can say it inspires confidence all the time, everywhere, yet it's apparent the driver lost control of the 911 at turn 11. One would think the best driver's car that gives off no fear can compose itself, even when entering a corner too hot. Your thoughts?

Here is another written quote from the poster:

"Gentlemen. I was there for this test. I talked to Jonny for a half hour on the 911 vs C7. He told me this was going to be very very close. So close in fact that it will be a personal preference call. When I posted the 911 vs C7 thread a while back I couldn't talk about it much as I told Jonny I wouldn't give out the results. That thread went ballistic with anticipation of this test. One thing that happened that they didn't report was a second run around the track by the engineers from Corvette that matched the F12 time. After the Motor Trend guys finished up and also Pobst, the Corvette engineers reset the computer handling parameters and went out and reset a time which was faster and also matched the Ferrari time. The engineers called out to see if they wanted to accept that time and the MT guys said no. They had already done their lap timing and that the new time by Corvette would not be used. That's probably fair since Porsche and Ferrari did not have their testing engineers there to extract a better time. Overall a great result for Corvette. Jonny didn't give out his final results to me but I think he was having a real time of it making a decision on this. All of the MT guys were there and I'm sure it was a consensus of all, but could be nothing more than 911 fanboys vs Corvette fanboys in the group. I know Angus is a Porsche guy. I forgot to mention that the Corvette was a pre-production car without the the latest handling parameters. The Corvette engineers indicated that and then changed it to their latest settings. Hence, the faster lap time!!!"

I get that you didn't use the lap time that matched the F12. But don't you think it would be fair to compare a production C7 to the 911 and F12 and then determine if it's handling characteristics are as you say they are?

Your thoughts, sir.

Yeah, I saw him posting over there but I don't post on any car forums but this one.

To his first post, he saw the 911 spin out when it was being driven for photography and was attempting to get a big drift. When you try to get sideways, you sometimes end up backwards. The Corvette is actually MUCH harder to drift than the 911 and spun out many, many more times trying to get a drift picture, with all different drivers at the wheel. I don't recall exactly who was driving the 911 when it spun, but it was one of our editors, not Randy. I myself drifted the 911 a number of times for camera at a different photo shoot and never spun it. When hot-lapping the 911, I never had it come anywhere close to spinning on me. The most I could get it to do, when I was really trying, was to do a nice little drift exiting the hairpin, turn 2. The Corvette was far more tail happy.

As to the second post, when the Corvette went back out to try a different suspension setting, we didn't have time left in our track day to rig it up with all the equipment. It was either go now or forget about it. We decided to go, and one editor's stop watch said it was quicker, but that's hardly scientific. He's usually pretty good, but we don't actually know whether the Corvette matched the Ferrari's lap time or not.

I'd also like to address this recalibration that he brings up. The Corvette engineers informed us there was a software update they'd like to install and we let them do it, but it was not a night-and-day change. It was, per the Corvette engineers, a small tweaking of the magnetic ride control settings. Per Randy, the real difference he felt was in running a hot lap in Sport mode rather than Race. He felt the Race mode shock settings were too stiff and caused the car to be more loose. Sport was softer and let it hook up better. But again, by the time he did that lap, we weren't able to rig it with data collection equipment.

Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9567...#ixzz2g1oaR0y1

That seems a bit counterintuitive. Aren't all the best drift cars front-engined? I've been told time and again here (and specifically by skank) that the rear-engine layout does nothing more than ensure a hastier retreat into the scenery. Then again, edmunds raved how they could circulate the skidpad almost purely on the throttle with very little steering input at all. Then there's this with the new GT3 (watch from 0:43):


CorvetteFerrariFTW:
I've read that Automobile Mag test you referenced, and it came down to which was the better overall sports car in a way that most people use them (on the road). While the SLS Black may be faster and, yes, even better on a dry, smooth track, that has almost no bearing on how these cars are used by the vast majority of their customers. The AMG's Cup tires were also poorly suited to the rain that they encountered. So while the Mercedes may have been more exciting and composed in a best driver's car comparo at Laguna Seca, that advantage doesn't necessarily translate to the real world. Mercedes knows this. That's why each of their Black Series cars are so limited in production (~300-ish?). Meanwhile, Ferrari will sell around 4-5000 units of the F12 at even higher prices, if past front-engined V12s are anything to go by. But they too realize the market for a hardcore front-engined GT is fairly limited. Thus the GTO was limited to only 599 units.

Pobst Snubs C7!?
 

It was almost as fast as the original ZR1 at Laguna Seca!:toetap:

He wants to be able to run a torquey Corvette on small street tires without the electronics then he should disconnect the 911s rear steering and front drive. I would like to see him in a F1 or C7R without traction control racing!:rofl:

He basically said the C6 Zs are better overall probably including the track tires, and they never made "Best Drivers Car", or close.:smash:

And he wasn’t driving the C7 like he was the F12 and 911, which, was damn insulting in my book!:toetap:

:crazy2: Very Confused!

It would be interesting to see what the C7 engineers do with the suspension to address the C7 tail snap oversteer at its limits.

Will they come up with their PDCC version for the C7?

Time will tell

pretty much yeah, if I wanted a nice interior, good fuel mileage, premium fit and finish I'd go buy a Honda Accord, but I don't.

Porsche City!
 

http://www.randypobst.com/index.cfm?...y&form_years=5 :yesnod: I think the 991 would have made me happy too!

So, you're saying the C7 is overpriced and not worth it because you can build a Mustang that's as fast or faster in the 1/4 mile for a fraction of the price. Is that what I'm hearing?

Holy smokes... Guibo, I'm not interesting in debating anything or suggesting anything you are saying is wrong... BUT... holy cow you take the fun out of every thread you get involved in. The discussion just goes off of the rails and becomes a never ending and circular debate. I know you are only one side of the debate (and you need two or more to argue) but you are always the consistent part. You have way too much time on your hands devoted to arguing for Porsche on non-Porsche forums. Again, not saying you are right or wrong but it is painful... to me at least. :rofl:

Not so sure this one is circular. It looks like we've gotten to an answer, and it's that GM is making a huge mistake in pricing the C7 way higher than modified Mustangs. :D
If you'll notice, I'm not just arguing for Porsche. I'm making the case for Ferrari in this thread too. I've made the case for the Ford GT, Nissan GT-R, FR-S/BRZ, Lexus LFA, and Corvette elsewhere as well. I've also argued in favor of GM's new comitment to overall quality too, the fruits of which are borne in the C7 and Cadillac. If it's too painful, you can put me on ignore. I won't be offended. :cheers:

Putting you on ignore is useless when you derail and wreck nearly every thread in which you and your alter ego participate.
We already know you glean all of your info from magazines and internet searches, so you have nothing of interest to say to those of us who have and race various cars and can read it on our own if we are interested. Most of us aren't interested in the rambling, multi-paragraph clusterphucks you post here for the apparent sport of trying to prove your opinion correct.
I suppose you don't post on Rennlist or 6speed because the owners of the cars you worship would likely run you off the board or ban you. Here, they're much more tolerant, to the dismay of many of us.
S.

With as much time as he spends here promoting and defending the Porsche brand, you'd almost think he was getting paid for it......:rolleyes:

http://reputationx.com/

No, I'm saying that I would sacrifice cargo space, NAV, a sunroof and other non-performance enhancing dodads for a fast car, I didn't really think my original statement was so vague. :confused: