But 50% of 10 is still a smaller number than 10% of 150. :D

This thread has outlived its usefulness. Both cars are good cars. :thumbs:

Precisely! You know what else is hand built? Civics tuned in people's garages. You know what else burns its own bumpers? You got it, home built civics.

The engineering put into the car as a whole is what makes it or breaks it. That is why many folks bought a Cayman, S2000, R8, etc over a C6. Not everyone is a keyboard warrior waxer that drives the Vette in the sticks once a week to beat hwy mpg records.

Stop the presses! Guibo and I agree on something!!! :willy:

Dan that Viper was not an under-performing poor example in the ZR1 test. It was running comparable tires. It turned in an excellent time (again the 6th fastest they recorded). The ZR1 just did slightly better. This helped inspire team Viper into making the TA version to come out and beat the Vette. Which it DID. If the car used in the test was demonstrably inferior to the normal examples, team Viper would have simply re-ran the test with another GTS instead of engineering a new package. Team Viper didn't take the loss sitting down. They rose to the challenge.

What the comparison with the C7 says to me regarding the Viper is that team Viper is going to have to make some tough choices. Part of the Viper's appeal is that it is a pure drivers car. It has been very slow to adopt a lot of technological add-ons like ABS and stability controls. Not because they lack the engineering knowledge, but because they feel it dilutes the experience. The C7 on the other hand shows a concerted engineering effort to incorporate as much technology as they can (while staying within their traditional layout and budget) to enhance performance. They've also tried to enhance the driving experience as well. The Vipers problem is that competitors that continue to enhance the synergy of technology and platform will continue to push the performance envelope at a faster pace. They could do that, but would it alienate their base? Would it cease being what a Viper was envisioned to be? I don't know. It's a tough question.

Viper vs. C7 depends completely on what you want out of a car. Honestly I doubt there is a lot of cross shopping based on their price points. It's disappointing to see folks attacking posters and demeaning one car or the other. I prefer the Corvette for my own reasons. Doesn't mean I wouldn't love to own or drive a Viper. Putting down the other side doesn't raise yours.

:yesnod:

Now you have to bring in other cars, btw none of the cars you mentioned are mass produced, and yes many people on here are keyboard warriors, just look at all the , magazine times, speaking of time, there is a nice topic about corvette owners and what kind of Rolex they wear:lol:

There has never been an issue with viper fit and finish, no orange peel on those cars.

Home built civics? , now you are really reaching its not even a sports car, are s2000's even made anymore ?

Like I said you are :crazy2:

I simply look at SRT's response to the ZR1 test and it says it all

1. They say its pre-production and not "up to par" (who does that KNOWING it'll be tested versus it's #1 competitor!)
2. Then why did you rush out a new model with more aero...why not just show up with a production car and hush the naysayers?
3. Ralph posting ridiculous remarks about Randy being a subpar driver and being "scared" to push it.

That's the answer right there...the Viper lost to an outgoing model. Stevie Wonder himself can see the facts clear as day.

The LFA displays excellence, and in case you've missed holds a Nurburgring record for what is essentially the fastest TRUE street car. Vipers stripped out version of its car, Porsches racecar and then the Gumpert, Radical and all that is hardly a street car. The Lexus Nurburgring car WILL deliver the best performance, with a radio, ac and comfy seats. A true daily driver capable exotic that owned everything.

The Aventador....speaks for itself....nothing really compares to its looks, it's excellence....shy of cars in the 7 figures and beyond. The Aventador is a bargain if you ask me...only thing that can steal that cars thunder in a parking lot is a Zonda, Veyron and one of the new Ferraris....all of which cost the price of 3 aventadors or more.

In their own respects...they do kill everything in their path.

Then, you bring up the sport cup tires, like that's something special. That's the production tire! No one said Viper couldn't put on their own sport cups from the factory! They made the tire choice to go to war with.

This is the only part I'll moderately agree with. More Viper owners are "drivers", but I think this is merely due to the release date of the Viper. The mid 90's had the Viper on the walls of the highschool kids...guys in college, etc. They grabbed a younger demographic because of it, so you have a younger avg base of ownership.

I TRY to appreciate all cars for what they are. I have been a professional racecar/custom car builder for 15 years, started automotive based websites starting in the late 90's, and have been a (what I consider diseased/sick) car enthusiast since literally my birth. I studied sports/custom/exotic/racing car mags before I was 10 and never quit to this day. I've road raced/track tested vintage Corvettes, Z06, ZR1, CTS-V, (the yellow) LFA prototype/mule in 2010, Factory Five GTM's, BMW M3's, Viper GTS, built Honda's, S2k, Ferrari's and more. The FACT is, the Viper is a disappointment....I'm sorry.

If you look at the case objectively, the car doesn't hit its marks. It simply rides it's looks to the bank, that's the bottom line. The car NEVER did anything exceptional besides LOOK unique, and that was mostly because they barely sold any. Without having put a monster engine in there, you have nothing. There's never been refinement, there's never been a true representation of excellence with the car and to date there still isn't. The gaps on the rear panels are hideous...I can only hope there is some strange aero phenominon responsible...but I still wouldn't have let it hit production that way.

Funny last sentence...I LOL'd.

On another note...I've built Honda Civics that will spank that Viper and that C7...:yesnod::lol:

Viper is a status car, Corvette is a drivers car....end of story.

Honda has something for your Viper real soon bud...that baby will be takin another ass whippin by the new NSX.

First hybrid supercar...KERS on board...AWD...that cars gonna be wicked. Toyota...they can do it right....Honda....they can do it right....GM/Corvette....they can do it right....Viper.....can't get right.

Interesting listening to these guys discuss cars
 

Take the time to find Edmunds on Twitter and listen to their interaction with each other. I was surprised to see that they did not seem like the "gearheads" of old. I will value their opinions less than in the past.

FYI-A 10 ACR is no more or less of a street car than the LFA ring edition. The ACR-X is obviously a differnt story.

I'll take one of each

0-60 in 4.3 and 113.96? Hahaha. The new C7 is treading on Mustang territory!

You are 100% correct, why guys (especially knowledgeable car guys) insist that the ACR is stripped down baffles me.

My ACR has a/c, a radio full insulation, etc. As you mentioned the
ACR-X is not a street car.

I'm kind of surprised to read what you wrote, you are way too knowledgeable to make a statement like sport cups aren't something special. I'll respond simply with if SC's aren't so special than why did SRT shave another 2 seconds off the TA right after they set the record at LS with Pirellis by running the SC's? We already know the answer to that one, it's a better tire and that's not to say the Pirellis are junk but they are not Michelins. I do agree with you as to why they're on the car, my guess is it's an Italian thing with Fiat and Pirelli.

:lurk:

Yep...and your ACR isn't the one with the Nurburgring record either. The silver/black car that DOES have it has no carpet, no ac, no radio, no sound deadening...no nothing. In addition, the 7:22 car was tuned by SRT, the car that ran 7:12 was tuned by a German racing team prior to it's run at the ring. Can you say...sell out?

WITH that said, I WILL say that the ONLY Viper I'd EVER own is the ACR. IMO it's the best Viper ever built to date and the only model that does the brand any justice.

Dude, your logic is ridiculous...lol.

I guess the ZR1 is special because it has a supercharger too. It's also special because it has magnetic ride. It's also special because it has carbon brakes.

It was a FACTORY equipped car bro...period....straight from the dealership down the road.

Just to add...

In my true opinion, the Viper needs to be a 200k dollar car to compete with Corvettes top model...plain and simple. They don't sell enough cars to do necessary development. The Viper needs to step into the upper tier somehow and gamble a bigger pricetag or it's gonna lose in the magazines. Maybe Fiat can bring something to the table for them...who knows. If SRT has enough models...maybe they can spread that load for R&D but...at the 125k'ish pricepoint...the car is just unrefined in many ways, and that's not going to change. Like I said...not a bad machine, but if I'm looking at the new Viper vs the new Z06/7...pshhh...even for the SAME money I'm buying Corvette ALL DAY. If you don't make that same choice...then you're driven by look...by status...end of story.

Okay you're right, I remember that now. So the car was 40 pounds lighter, also going by memory all they did was put a few turns in the KW adjustable suspension. What else did they do to "tune" it? And to use your words, it's factory bro, straight out of the box if they didn't change anything right? lol

Now if you're going to tell me that 40 pounds would have changed the outcome I'm going to have to send the little bus your way. JK...lol

Another poster posted the high altitude of the test as a possible reason why acceleration figures were off from the norm. I'm sure it affected both cars performance. It's posted a few pages back.

If it didn't change the outcome then why take it out in the first place...lol? If you don't think 40lbs makes a difference...sheesh...I don't know what to tell you...lol. Over a 7+ minute lap, it makes a hell of a difference.

They add 15lbs of ballast to the C6R and Tommy says that while he can't perceptibly FEEL it...the car is damn sure slower on the stopwatch. Add 30lbs and they were losing 2 car lengths on the straights to the Vipers earlier this year. Maybe you should check the length of the straights at the ring. 40 lbs makes a HELL of difference....less weight to slow down, less weight to turn, less to accelerate equals heat management in the tires, brakes, shock oil, etc.

And I mean...dude...honestly...I'm seriously a fan of the ACR, but the fact is it has KW adjustable coilovers on it! I mean...that's just...it's an aftermarket car for gods sake. Doesn't make it bad...it just makes it much more...ehhh...kit car. Adjustable wing, adjustable suspension...it's all good fun...but you really gonna call that a street car? 99.9% of ownership doesn't have the FIRST clue what to do with that sh*t. They put that car out there to simply justify the "records" they wanted because it was technically production car status...but please dude. Let's get Fran up in here with the SL-C cause that's what the ACR is competing with in my book...SL-C will wax that ass for less money. Callin that a street car is calling the SL-C a street car...I mean...yeah...technically...but its a racecar to the world who has a clue.

What can they "tune" you say?? Try...everything. The race team analyzes the data, tire temps, drag/downforce management, damper adjustment, alignment, gear selection vs corner distance and who knows what other little trickery thrown in there. Yet again, the ZR1 at the Nurburgring used the FACTORY alignment settings, factory ride height, suspension based on selection in the cockpit, etc.

You seriously don't see the difference? Is the ACR bad...no. Is your ACR representative of the ACR at the ring....Haaaayelllllll NO.