Vette/Viper
 

So my buddy just bought a Viper, ... and has already challenged me to a race when it arrives next week...
So my question to experienced Z06 guys is this:

We are going to a closed private event in a few months, to hash out the winner...

My Car has CAI and Corsa Exhaust, How do I compare to his 600HP beast!

Do I have a fighting chance!

I know the Z06 is lighter and revs higher and is somewhat comparable...

40MPH-130MPH comparison... :willy: if we both leave at 40 what's my chances? Should I stay in 1st, or start in 2nd.... shift at 6000rpm? 7000RPM....etc.

I Don't care if he beats me... just want to give myself and my z06 the best chance we can!

Anyway any advice will be appreciated....:cheers:

If you guys are close in driver ability, I would say he is going to win. He's only about 200lbs heavier (curbweight) than you, but has about 100HP advantage. How close, it's too hard to tell without knowing how well each of you can drive. I would shift close to redline , but that's just me.

I think it's good to race cars you know are, or may be faster , IMO it makes you a better driver. I always laugh at guys in our cars that beat up on ricers , or slower Audi's and BMW's .. try racing a Viper or GTR, or Porsche Turbo... our cars are very fast, but there are plenty of faster cars around.

With re to your CAI and exhaust, depending on which CAI, you are going to pick up minimal gains without tuning , you'd be lucky to pick up 10-12 HP without tuning.

Good luck and stay safe

You have a fighting chance. Especially if you are the better driver. On paper his car should be faster. But your car has better gearing. I believe the Viper has 3.07 gears compared to your 3.42s. Get plenty of seat time in I've seen plenty of good drivers beat faster cars with their superior driving ability. Good Luck:thumbs:

:iagree: I would say fighting chance is a good way to put it, I was going to put that in my post too. And they are going from a roll, so no worries about trying to figure out launch etc.. If OP is clearly the better driver and gets some practice he may take him. Should be a good race. If they are equal drivers, my bet still goes with the Viper.

:iagree: All else being equal the Viper should win by just a bit. However, with 0-60 and 1/4 mile times being only about .2 different, it's close enough to be called a driver's race. It's one I'd love to watch. Just a slight zing of the tires or balky gear change could turn the tables either way.

If you are on the stock run flats, you should consider upgrading to a decent tire.

The standing start of the 1/4 will be slow with the stock tire. Hell, you may even spin when you punch it at 40mph, depending on the surface you race on.

A good tire is the easiest way to maximize performance. Racing the Viper aside, you should be happy with that purchase.

:iagree:

FrankTank is right on. I have to go with the Viper also if you both have equal driving ability or if he is the better driver.

Make sure you video it please :)

I rode in an second Gen viper at a trackday about a month ago. I was appalled at what a hunking piece of sh*t it was.

Going back to my viper days, if his car has stock gearing, you have a fighting chance. If not, get the anal lube ready.

Thanks for al the Advice... Sounds like the majority so far instead of giving me rpm, or shifting advice just feel I feel I will loose...

Guess I will Hammer the **** out of it and shift at 6800RPM and hope for the best...

Shift as close as you can to redline without hitting the rev limiter.

FYI red line is 7100

I took my neighbors out for a spin before I bought my Z06.........realized I really disliked the car within a block.......loved the looks of the Viper though.....didn't like the sound mostly...

I loved my Viper but it is a bare bones vehicle with the driver mod seriously required while doing any type of competition with it. Corvettes typically have more nanny systems built in and are a bit more liveable daily.

6800 rpm shifts won't get it done if it's as close as folks here think.

Suggest to him that you start from 60 mph. Then use 2nd for the start. A start at 40 mph could cause both of you to break traction.

get heads and cam in your z06 done and he is then toast!

This is true.

I would say go get a tune, it will really really help, and get a drag radial. You will need a drag radial without a doubt. You will only spin and spin on the stock goodyear run flat. If you have a tune a drag radial, and go out and practice on your launches you WILL win. The launch is a big deal, you need to go out and practice, but oh well it will be fun. If you guys get the race done post a video somewhere and let us know what happens. Dont race him on the run flat, you will lose for sure.

I agree.

But, I'd also get a tune, then add a pair of Nitto's....:thumbs:

I did 5/6 second gear roll ons with a Viper from 60mph. Strong car....first to get the hit stayed out front.

All in the saftey of a closed course.......

My 2010 made the = of 584 HP/528 TQ flywheel according to a mustang dyno with Halltech MF103 and Corsa mufflers if this helps. Then we have the weight advantage.

Also, ask for a fair race with both of you running street tires, drag radials, slicks. as long as you both have the equivalent of the same tire.

This guy I know's z06 with headers/cai and 484whp lost by 2-3 car lengths to a stock 08 Viper.

its on youtube "2008 Viper SRT-10 Coupe vs. 2007 C6 Z06"

WOT box and power shifting it will keep you door to door. When all else fails, hundred shot. No question about the outcome there. I'd say screw it and dig race. No traction control in the Viper. You should kill him everytime...as long as you know how to drive.

Ask "Ranger" to drive your car for you and as they say "That's that"!

no but seriously, it should be close with a slight edge to the viper just for the fact that even though it is 200Lbs heavier it has 100hp more and more torque. if you guys have = driving skills then the winner should be him. If you drove like the famous "Ranger" then you'd be seeing your friends Viper in the rear view.

take him to a road course instead.

No, redline is at 7000.

7100 is 'hey dummy, redline was at 7000, now I'm turning stuff off/down so you don't blow me up', AKA 'fuel cutoff'.

http://www.corvettemuseum.org/specs/2006/LS7.shtml

The Viper is only a tenth or two faster. C&D has a good write-up of these cars, head-to-head a few years ago. Why don't you sneak a CAI and a tune on your car? Then I'd bet on the Z for sure.:thumbs:

:nono:The Viper is a very good road course car and easier to drive at the limit.

Just an observation I personally have seen. Every dyno sheet I have seen it shows the z losing power after 6800-6900 rpm. If you shift at about 6800 then it prob will get up to 6900 or 7000 before the shift. On the power curve I see the power drop. Now this is just my observation and I set my shift light to 6800. Can anyone post their dyno sheet to show this?

Get your heads done because your going to have to get it done anyway and do a cam and your set.

Whoever has the better (newer, stickier, etc.) set of tires...

:iagree: 1000%. I just sold my 2006 C6 Z06 for a 2009 Viper Coupe, just 3 weeks ago, having owned my C6 Z for 3.25 years. The 2008-10 SRT 10 Vipers with their 600HP and 560 ft lbs of torque are a little bit faster on paper in just about every performance category, BUT, they are close and definitely a driver's race. :cheers:

jump on the second honk lol. no really let us know what happens.. and if ya lose, no biggie do a cam and heads and blow him away :D

:lurk: for vids

:lurk: for vids.

they are going from 40 mph and what about the viper s traction problems?It makes a lot more torque than the vette and will spin even more.The race should be a very close one.Rolling races dont require that much skill,all you do is put the pedal down wait for 7000 rpm and shift.No big deal.The standing start is where this race would be won or lost but this is irrelevant since they are going from a roll.

:iagree: Jimmy is spot on here, and having literally just traded his Z06 for his 09 Viper he's got a very accurate perception having now driven both cars back to back recently.

:rock:

At 40 mph the Viper won't have any traction problems it will hook up and go (just like the vette) as obviously there will not be any down shifting in this race and lets assume both cars start in the proper gear.

The Viper's massive torque is an issue getting it out of the hole as you reference above and I like the C6 Zs chances better if it was a drag race from a standing stop, as that takes more driver skill and better driver wins that race.

Either way, both cars are close enough to make this a driver's race, but Viper chances will increase from a 40 mile an hour to 150 mph race. :cheers:

the viper is a much more difficult car to ring out on the road course. That is where driver difference can make a LOT of difference.
Dont get me wrong the newer Viper is a force to be reckoned with--but things like lift throttle oversteer are much more prominent on the viper. The viper has come a long way though.
For example Car and driver lighting laps at vir has the viper srt 10 turning a 2:57, the corvette zo6 a 2:53. That is a huge difference

Two chances, slim and none

My money is on the Viper. It's not a drivers race unless your buddy sucks at driving.

Now mod your car and get another 100 HP! :thumbs:

Guys I am going to disagree. I had an 08 Viper vert for a while and I also have a ls7 c5 with cam and bolt ons. I raced a couple z06's and got walked hard. Both were not stock. My c5 ls7 would leave the viper like it was sitting still and they dynoed the same power within a few horsepower.

And the viper will spin at 40 mph if it is in first gear. Mine would easy on stock tires. They are also hard to shift fast with stock shifter, the throw was always weird to me and seemed like it was WAY too long.

Same day, same driver? When they were tested at VIR, same day/driver, the Viper edged out the Vette and was much easier to drive at the limit. (according to C&D, Oct., 2007).:cheers:

I was there the night malu59rt went 10.9@129 and my buddies bolt-on C6Z went 10.9@129 at the same track...what rpm was that race started at, what was he shifting at and did the viper have a passenger as well? Should be a drivers race at that level. Heck my h/c FRC trapped 127mph with only 422rwhp and I've beaten a bolt-on Gen3 Viper.

Just roll 1 st gear to get traction ,then redline second and third on your Z . That viper won't know what him him .

First run was against a Viper... Last run I had a terrible launch, but still had faster MPH, which is all that matters at these events. Car had a vararam and tune only then.
My car also dynoed higher than a GTS viper did, he had more Tq, but less HP. My car was stock, he had an intake and exhaust. Both the viper and my car were on my old mustang dyno, so....
Here's some GoPro footage

No one has still really answered his question. I'd find out what speed the Viper tops out at in 1st gear and adjust your starting speed to that. If you can start out in 1st gear while he's in 2nd gear that could give you an edge. I doubt his car will do 60 in 1st gear, but I really don't know for sure.

I would definitely shift at 7K. Yes, I know that power drops off before 7K, but you have to remember that a little less power with a lower gear is better than more power with a steep gear.

I do know for a fact that the 2008 to 2010, Viper SRT 10s, achieve 62 miles per hour in first gear. I have both read up on that fact and verified that in my 2009 Viper SRT 10 Coupe. :thumbs:


JNV255,

That is an awesome 1/2 mile event you attended great video and that Georgia scenery looks great as the straight way does also (sweet)! :cheers:

What year Viper is that that you ran and beat from a standing stop? The 2008-10 Vipers are a bear to hook up out of the hole with the 560 ft lbs gobs of torque they make along with their 600 ponies. Ask me how I know. :D In a straigtline last night with oem tires I had to get out of the throttle hammering my 2009 Viper in 2nd gear, after coming in strong from 1st gear, or I would have ended up in a ditch.

Equal drivers the 2008-10 Viper SRT 10s are a little bit faster in all performance catergorys vs a C6 Z, but they are definintely close enough to be a drivers race, and as I posted earlier the OP stands a much better chance winning in a drag race from a standing stop versus the roll race he talks about starting at around 40 miles per hour. Still a driver's race though, all about who starts off in the best/proper gear for the speed they start their roll race from and who is the better driver. :thumbs:

Not sure on the year, but you're right, they have a hard time hooking up. The OP would have a better chance from a dig, but as I said, the GTS viper I dynoed 2yrs ago made less HP with an intake and exhaust than my car did stock, but not by much.... He had me Tq wise. It would be a drivers race.
Hopefully my car will be finished for the next half mile next month as ill have another 130hp than what I had last go around... It's gonna be close on making it

The reasn I ask b/c Viper got a 90 HP increase in 2008 where the HP went from 510 ponies (2003, 2004, etc) up to 600 ponies in the 2008-10 model years. THe brand new Viper GTS now out as a 2013 model makes 640 n/a ponies. :thumbs:

Good luck with your Z and your future plans for it, they are truely AWESEOME cars :cheers: but the valve train issue was definitely one factor that eventually made me recently go to the dark side after 20 years. This was also another factor in not getting a ZR1, b/c the LS9 issues looks like they might be also be suffering from premature valve guide ware. An looking forward to the future I would have liked the C7 but that UGLY entire rear end makes me not like the C7 at all (not to mention its underpowered, ridicoulus the C7 did not have 500 ponies).

:iagree:

Here is a youtube video of a stock 2008 Viper walking pretty easily a 2007 C6 Z06 with headers and a tune, from a roll race.

Several important variables here such as did the vette start off in the proper gear etc., but the OP certainly has an up hill battle from a roll race if the Viper owner knows how to drive.

Have fun, we want more video. :cheers:

z06 was in the wrong gear for sure.I dont doubt the viper would creep away slowly had they had a fair start but this is not representative of what really happens when two of these cars meet.If you look at their trap speeds in the quarter mile they are pretty close.

that porsche turbo was fast.

Exactly!
 

I was just thinking that! Given it’s not a race from a "dig" rather a 40 roll, that'll help. I'd start in 2nd gear and shift at 7K RPM. But definitely get a set of NT05R drag radial (Nitto 345/30/19's) AND A TUNE! I think you'll do fine.

Do you know if he's driven a Viper before? It's a TOTALLY different animal. Its BRUT FORCE! Entirely uncontrollable for the average driver. I don't even think it has traction control. My guess is the car will be too much for him and even if you don't have a lot of driver's skill, the traction control (Competitive Driving Mode) will be a huge advantage to you.

Again, if he's new to that car without much experience driving specifically a Viper.... Then I'd wager on your driving skill that you'll walk his A$$. Call me over confident in our Z's but I stand by that if you get a tune and some DR tires and ditch the "Run Craps"

Let us know how it goes... :steering:

Give me a break. The valve train issue is way overblown if you talk to any of the mechanics - and it's easily fixed. The $3K it costs to fix is less than you'd lose on a trade in.

I bought mine knowing of the issue just a few weeks ago. I just figured in the cost of new heads in the cost of ownership.

If you can't afford to put a few $$$ into your car then you just can't afford the car anyway, sorry just the facts.

To me, it's an opportunity to port the heads and change the cam at the same time.