Key VATS
 

Last week posted message regarding son losing key. Since then went to dealer who made me a key which was for resistance 14, it did not work.
I hired a locksmith with an "interegator" box, he could not find the resistance. He said that possible a wire broke from lock.
This I find hard as my son moved my car just before he lost the keys.
Without having to tow the car to the dealer, then get charged $$$$ has anyone installed the VATS bypass? I saw on a previous thread that there is a guy on ebay that sells them. However, while mechanically fairy capable, i have very little understanding of electrical and don't own a metering device.
Has anyone installed the VATS bypass, i also understand you have to bypass the starter Enable Relay?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-VATS-or-PASSkey-II-Bypass-Module-For-LS1-and-LT1-/271223021636?vxp=mtr
Should i take my steering column apart first to check the wiring?

How did the dealer conclude it was a key #14? did he use the interrogator first. The ign lock cylinder reads the resistance in the key pellet, it has two thin wires (usually yellow) with a connector that runs to the anti theft. If it is indeed a key 14 and of the correct resistance, and the cylinder is in good shape and the wire is intact the car should start?

You could just have it programmed out with a piggyback chip, or have yours reprogrammed.

There is a Central Control Module test to verify if the key pellet resistance can be read. This tells you the key cylinder contacts and wiring are good.

Short pin A to G on the diagnostic connector above the drivers right knee with a piece of wire or paper clip. Turn the ignition On don't start the engine.
Look at the dash cluster LCD.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps069e53f3.gif

After the numbers cycle 1.0 will be displayed. Press ODO button on the driver information center until 1.2 is displayed. Press Eng/Met button until 06xxx displays in the odometer area. Note the value of xxx.

Example if the key code is 14 the xxx value should be a number between 199-204.
That tells you the key cylinder contacts and wiring to the CCM are good.

Since you're this far into it let's confirm some things.

You did a VIN request from the GM dealer and the response came back with a VATS code. If that's the case and the key rotates the cylinder it's unlikely that anything has been changed. Have the dealer "drop the key" in their "Interrogator" to confirm the resistance of the key that they made you. Stranger things have happened, maybe it's not the correct key. It's unusual for a VATS code to be returned with an older VIN but someone else mentioned a week ago that he did a '91 and it was included. It is an "exception" rather than the rule!

The VATS code would have been included as a two letter code not a number and the letter codes changed through the years. It's possible that the person had the correct letter code but misinterpreted the chart which gives the values. I'd start back at the dealer with the key you have and the information the dealer requested.

In this post column 7 displays VATS resistance and in (XX) there's 2 letter codes that would have come back with the key request to GM - those codes aren't the same for all years. The dealer can access a chart for the years and confirm the 2 letter code that was on your key request. Is the chart correct that's included in this link? For a '93 I'm not sure, that chart is posted allover the Internet by locksmiths etc but for a fact there are different charts for various years. I thought there maybe 2 for single sided and 2 for double sided VATS. Is there only 1 for single sided? I don't recall.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1557847121-post4.html

START AT THE DEALER IF THE KEY ROTATED THE CYLINDER !!!

Does the door key work also?

Wrong ! That will only do the "fuel enable" aspect. Once that's done the starter enable relay needs to be by-passed also to completely remove VATS. That is also quite simple BUT it is NOT included in the piggyback or a PROM programmed by someone.

I took my title/id to the dealer and he submitted a request through GM $48. Then it came back with the code and for $60 i got 2 keys that did not work.

Only fixes the fuel supply part.

Still have to manually bypass the starter enable relay also operated by VATS

The door and the ignition both didn't work? Ask the dealer to confirm their work and cut you the ignition on a "work-key" blank GM # 26007687. If that doesn't rotate the cylinder then this is a possibility. The ignition cylinder was replaced because of wear and the code is different for the mechanical aspect BUT likely not the VATS.

The key that the dealer cut did rotate the ignition cylinder.
However the security light is on.
When the locksmith used his interegator, i take it the key just has to be turned on? the clutch does not need to be depressed?
I have a separate key for the door vs ignition.

You are correct, however if no fault is found at the ignition the VATS module will not set the starter enable relay. There must be a fault in the VATS module, or starter relay once it is programmed out of the ignition, or the system operates fine.

See above.
RIGHT, if in fact it is the ignition. Otherwise, bypass the starter enable relay.

OK - The key rotates the cylinder. The locksmith I don't believe can use his Interrogator with anything other than a work-key unless it's a type that you slide in on both sides of the key. A GM Interrogator installs under the dash and plugs into the car harness and the cylinder leads. If the car is a manual yes the clutch would still need depressed to crank the car unless it has been defeated earlier.

Regardless start at the dealer and have all work checked. Ask to see the key request from GM and get the VATS letter code, compare it to the chart in the thread I posted and I'm trying to find the balance of the charts.

It seems the entire routine from the locksmith may have been in vain if the clutch was never depressed to confirm crank. How long did he wait between requests?

If the key rotated do the test that "Hooked On Vettes" posted and see what that value is. Do that test/check a couple times and make sure you're doing it with a charged battery. A low battery can be a serious detriment to all of this. Charge the battery well!!!

[IMG]http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/...psb18c8432.jpg[/IMG]

Here's a second chart and I was quite confident there was at least one more but I can't put my hands on it maybe it just rotated by year and single/double and there were several columns of the same repetitive information! There's an obvious error in this chart also! The #1 was only used in 1986.

All very good information, especially the specific value resistors on ebay. These resistors are simply doing the job the Interrogator does. I don't think the dealer or GM has the resistor values (though i'm not positive of this), that is why they designed the Interrogator.
Again, how did the dealer come up with the #14 key???, if this was a random selection that he just cut the key code on, you probably have the wrong key. I have used the interrogator and it works, just faster then building resistor packs to duplicate the key pellet value. Why the locksmith could not get the values is a mystery, however "Hooked" and "WVR" gave you some good info on how to eliminate the cylinder and wiring.

Your original comment is just WRONG and your attempts to cover it in your other posts just confirms your ignorance of the system. There is NO VATS module in this car! NONE - it's CCM controlled.

You "blew it" - learn from it and move on!!

I still disagree, If the key is programmed out, and is not directed to set a fault, it does not send a signal to the starter enable relay.

Your claim is this simple. You're claiming that in a perfectly working system if the VATS is programmed out the starter enable relay will remain open and not allow the starter to engage? Please feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong, but if there's no fault to detect the system functions.

The locksmith cut a key from mine which rotated, then attached 1 piece metal to each side, the attached wires to a black box that had 15 setting. He waited 3 min between settings, he did all 15 twice.

His key was then likely a work-key (just brass), do you have that key? I'd guess that he maybe didn't wait nearly long enough. The delay is debated 3 - 5 minutes and real early CCM's after four failed attempts it defaulted to 10 minutes I believe. Yours isn't that early, don't be concerned. Regardless start at the dealer first by having them "drop" the key that they sold you to confirm it's code. You'll see I posted another chart with codes. I really thought there was another but maybe not. If they've trashed your response from GM have them redo it for you.

I've never used that type Interrogator and I don't know anyone with one to ask how effective they are.

FROM A QUITE REPUTABLE PROGRAMMER:

Need a chip to bypass the VATS security in your 1986-1993 TPI V8 F-body or Corvette? We have a chip just to do that certain thing. You will be mailed a piggyback adpater that plugs in between your stock chip and stock computer. Instructions included. Be aware there are two VATS systems in most GM cars; a starter interrupt and PCM/Injector security. We can only disable what is inside the PCM. To disable the starter interrupt you will need to find the starter relay and bypass it by jumping pins 87 and 30. You must provide your stock prom code in the text field next to buy now or your order may be delayed. Your stock prom code will consist of 3-4 only letters, no numbers. Example BDZL, BUC, BAFL. It is found on your stock chip and/or on your stock computer. TBI cars are not supported.

There is your problem. All he did was check the KEY value and not what is imbedded in the anti theft module. Take that car to someone who knows how to use the interrogator on your car. Drop the hush panel, disconnect the small connector that is part of the lock cylinder (see Above picture). Connect the Interrogator to the connector on the harness side, go thru the steps and the interrogator will determine the resistor value stored in the Module. You then get the proper key either 1-15, the Interrogator will tell you this. you cant look at the module and see any form of coding etc. don't waste your time. Use the interrogator and your done. If he took a multimeter and touched each side of the key pellet he could have determined the key value in about a min..??

:iagree:

Obviously had no idea of what he was doing if he was waiting 3 min each time for the resistor in the key to time out :crazy2:

I didn't see anyone (maybe I missed it) that suggested checking the VATS harness in the column. You do this by inserting the key and measuring the resistance on the VATS harness connector at the bottom of the column. See post #4 to see what the harness looks like.

If you measure the resistance of the key pellet resistor you're OK. If you measure open (usually "OL") then the harness wiring is broken or the contacts in the ignition switch are dirty/bad.

Thank you all for your help.
"Hooked on vettes", I did your test. I connected jumped A-G on the CCM, it worked exactly how you said with the various codes and prompts. in the end it came up 06 203 which you said the values for #14 were 199-204.
I assume at this point i verified that my key was #14 and I don't have a wiring problem in my steering column.
I called the locksmith back and told him that i was going to try unplugging the connection at the bottom of the steering column and use resistors. He stated that his machine was the various resistors and i could borrow it for a night that way i could wait as long as needed between trys when i mentions that some were feeling it required 5 min rather than the 2 min. Just have to lay upside down to get it connected....
BTW, i have to admit you guys on this forum are amazing with your electronics knowledge, where did your learn all the various codes and diagnostics tricks? I am use to replacing 5 parts before finding the fix. Thank you all!!

Maybe just a reset of the alarm and do it all from scratch first thing. The key seemed to pass the CCM check so reset the theft system I believe on a '93 you open the drivers door with the passenger closed, depress the lock button and the security light should come on solid I believe, close the door the security light I believe should go off.

Sit down, insert key, depress clutch and start the car! Simple as that and drive off!

And if tapping your head and rubbing your belly doesn't fix it, you now know the real solution.

That's nice of the guy to lend you his resistor box.

When you test each resistor value if it fails (Security light stays on) run the
diagnostic and verify the xxx value corresponds to what the chart shows.
This will tell you the resistor was read correctly and not out of tolerance
but is not the resistance value the CCM is looking for.

Remove the key and wait 5 minutes and try a different key code.

Here's a table showing the different xxx values.
You already know it's not Key code 1 or 14.

Key code #1 should be 033-038
#2 042-047
#3 052-058
#4 064-070
#5 076-083
#6 091-098
#7 106-113
#8 121-128
#9 136-143
#10 149-156
#11 164-170
#12 177-183
#13 188-194
#14 199-204
#15 208-213

Your profile does not indicate where you are located, if by chance you are in southeast Florida send me a PM, I have a GM VATS Interrogator you can borrow.

That is good news. simply plug the interrogator into the harness side of the lock cylinder wires. Two small thin wires, disconnect it and plug into the end towards the front of the car. Select #1 try to start the car in the normal fashion, let it time out if it does not start and go to the next one and so on. After it starts note the selector # and get that key from the dealer, have it cut for your car and your good to go. #5 may be the lucky one, just a guess.:cheers:

The car alarm went off soon as the guy started testing. He unplugged the horn, does this affect the circuit which would make it impossible to get a code, does this have to be plugged in?
I am located in Denver Colorado, thanks for the offer toptechx6 FL.

The factory alarm can be armed by the Key fob or if you lock the doors with the power door lock switch and then close both doors. You can reset the alarm by using the power door lock switch again before you close the door which will cancel the alarm.

An indication the alarm is set is the Security light is on Solid when
the door is open. When you close the door the Security light goes off. This is not the same as when you insert the key, turn the
ignition On and the Security light is on solid.

You can reset the alarm by using the door key and rotate the key to to lock and unlock.

You can also reset it by inserting the ignition key and I think you need to turn the ignition On. Since you don't have the proper key pellet resistance that may not work.

The alarm does not affect the key reading by the CCM.
All the alarm does is pulse the horn. The alarm is only triggered
by the two door ajar switches or the hatch ajar switch.

I, too, am totally amazed at the collective knowledge on the forum. You guys rock.

In reference to the PCM there are two check boxes in the ECM switch table. Mine happens to have the first not checked "VATS Diagnostic (Error 46).

The second is checked. "VATS Select x=enabled".

MrWillys, what does checking or unchecking do in this case?

My Corvette only has 39,000 miles but my 93 FBody has 140,000 and the resistors in at least one of my three keys I believe is getting spotty as sometimes the key will rotate the lock cylinder and it will not start, in fact everything is totally silent, so I suspect the VATS is at play.

BTW, I suspect it might be a blue moon over Arizona before your son takes off in the Corvette with the only key again,ken93Vette.

Personally, when I program a No VATS file I uncheck both boxes. I have read other memcals from other programmers who only turn off the X=enabled. By doing this the ecm doesn't look for the resistance value, and allows the vehicle to start. However, if there's a fault in the VATS module (or whatever you want to call it), or the starter enable relay it is possible to shut down the starter. In this case you simply ground the signal from the VATS module at the relay, or bypass it altogether.

In the OP's case: You would simply uncheck the X=enabled box, and reprogram the memcal and the vehicle will start. If he has a custom tune do to engine modifications he should just ask the tuner to do this and problem solved.

Here's a pic of the switches table for a 92 BDBK / Auto file for clarity.
http://www.scotthansen.net/images/bdbk.jpg

Whoa Nellie! VATs cable sheath coming down from the ignition key cylinder is Orange! Yellow is used for the Air Bag connector!

yes, you are correct, my error.

THANK YOU to all for your advice. GOT IT KEY #15 !!
I knew 14 didn't work, so did 13, 12, then 15. Was shocked as hell when i noticed security light didn't show up, turn key an started first crank.
One of those experience i learned a lot but could have done without.
Cheers to everyone celebrating this 4th!!

That's good! Did you ever go back to the dealer and confirm what was actually sent by GM for the "key request"? Did they just miss the chart when converting or was it actually the wrong code transmitted to them. I'd be wanting to know. Certainly at the price point you paid!

If it was misinterpreted on the chart by the dealer then I'd say a couple correct keys should "BE ON THEM"!!!

The reason I ask is if they/GM are purging old data bases to make the VATS available for these requests now it would be important to know the reliability of the data base. It wasn't available for years, you and another documented that it was transmitted from GM to the dealer. It could be interesting information to keep in mind.