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KBow_Photo 06-23-2013 07:31 PM


Originally Posted by US Icon (Post 1584225502)
I watched a hour of it yesterday and the final 30 minutes today. This was the first non NASCAR race I have ever watched and I did it only to see how the Vettes were doing. That had to be the most boring race I have seen. Everything about the race was foreign to me. From the relaxed pit stops, the red flashing brake lights, to what looked like the cars coasting across the finish line. Then on the podium there's 10 drivers being honored and nobody really seems to be happily celebrating and they're all wearing flower wreaths. Ghey.

What a contrast from NASCAR were they bump, bang, and dump each other at 200 mph, and the winner whips into victory lane, someone slams a 12 pack of beer on the roof, and everyone is high fiving.

At least the Vettes finished respectable, and ahead of the viper :lol:



Ah NASCRAP fans

Relaxed pit stops = safety, someone will eventually die in NASCAR because of their terrible form of pit stops, mark my words

Flashing brake lights, they dont actually flash, its because of the frequency between the HD TV and the LED's in the lights.

Cars coasting across finish line, its called tradition,

No one seemed happy because 3 laps into the race, a driver was killed.

So its ghey that the winners get flowers? really?

NASCAR is a joke, its funny a fan of NASCAR would complain about passing and bring up Daytona and Talladega when Daytona was a single file joke.

GuyFromLeMans 06-23-2013 08:18 PM


Originally Posted by BWF07 (Post 1584228890)
With that said, we all know that driving a car at high speeds is a dangerous business and this can happen at any time.

That is the bottom line about racing. And every pilot knows it.
You are right about the crash (and btw for those interested in seeing how it happened, I posted the youtube clip of the Corvette cam shot on the first page of this thread).
He did go wide on the connection the the straightaway and lost traction on the blue paint.

BWF07: Did you ever go to the 12hrs of Sebring? Does it work like Le Mans with a mix of prototypes and production cars? How do Corvettes do there?

z28lt1 06-23-2013 08:23 PM


Originally Posted by BWF07 (Post 1584227894)
Next as for the Corvette and performance issue. I am not aware of any added weight, as I understand it they were 15 Kg lighter then the weight mandated in the ALMS series. What I did hear, is that although they always run on Michelin tires, they were given a compound they have never run before in the ALMS series. These were the ones that the WEC ( the World Endurance Series)teams which were the top runs in the GT class this year run have been using. So with the bad weather and limited testing at Le Mans the Corvette team started off handicapped. Now they may have had other restriction and maybe weight was added, but I do know that they were originally set to weight less then they do min ALMS.

IMSA gave Corvette season-long weight penalty addition as well. Le Mans rules allowed them to be 25kg lighter, but Le Mans added in 10kg last week -- that's the odd part, because they weren't fast in practice, so why the addition? That said, it's all a big formula, because each car has different weight and different restrictor requirements to "balance the power". The Aston's were set up to do well, being allowed to be 25kg less than the Corvette's, having a bigger restrictor, and a taller wing. If they weren't faster, they were bad engineers at that point.

KBow_Photo 06-23-2013 09:11 PM


Originally Posted by GuyFromLeMans (Post 1584229563)
That is the bottom line about racing. And every pilot knows it.
You are right about the crash (and btw for those interested in seeing how it happened, I posted the youtube clip of the Corvette cam shot on the first page of this thread).
He did go wide on the connection the the straightaway and lost traction on the blue paint.

BWF07: Did you ever go to the 12hrs of Sebring? Does it work like Le Mans with a mix of prototypes and production cars? How do Corvettes do there?

Corvette won at the 12 Hours though most WEC teams did not participate

GuyFromLeMans 06-23-2013 10:30 PM

Cool. Thanks!

phileaglesfan 06-23-2013 10:41 PM


Originally Posted by BWF07 (Post 1584228324)
You cannot judge how one accident to another, there are many factors in the outcome. I will say, however that the AM yesterday seemed to have bent a lot more then other chassis and they may (and I am sure they will) look at the chassis for any issue that may have caused it to deform as it did.
I as well as many other send out our prayers to the Simonson family on their lose.

:iagree: But the AM car has a wicked sudden lost of control problem. First the fatal accident on lap 4 and the car 99 accident with 5 hours left. Both cars snapped back when the drivers were applying power after a turn in the wet. Neither accident was at near top speed otherwise we might have two dead drivers.

TBIRD57 06-23-2013 10:48 PM

aston martin!
 

Originally Posted by Rocketmanwpb (Post 1584225331)
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GTE Pro PORSCHE 911 RSR PILET P. PORSCHE

GTE Pro ASTON MARTIN VANTAGE V8 MÜCKE S. ASTON MARTIN RACING

GTE Pro CHEVROLET CORVETTE C6 ZR1 TAYLOR J. CORVETTE RACING

GTE Pro FERRARI 458 ITALIA VILANDER T.

GTE Pro FERRARI 458 ITALIA

GTE Pro CHEVROLET CORVETTE C6 ZR1 GAVIN O. CORVETTE RACING

GTE Pro SRT VIPER GTS-R GOOSSENS M. SRT MOTORSPORTS

SRT VIPER GTS-R WITTMER K. SRT MOTORSPORTS

GTE Pro FERRARI 458 ITALIA JMW MOTORSPORT

GTE Pro PORSCHE 911 GT3 RSR PERRODO F. PROSPEED COMPETITION

GTE Pro ASTON MARTIN VANTAGE V8 MAKOWIECKI F. ASTON MARTIN RACING

now "we" lose to aston martin! aston martin!

maxp 06-24-2013 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by oldstyleGS (Post 1584230042)
Corvette won at the 12 Hours though most WEC teams did not participate

they won if you mean second and fifth place


20
GT #62 Risi Competizione Gianmaria Bruni 1:58.815 20

21
GT #4 Corvette Racing Oliver Gavin 1:58.934 21

22
GT #97 Aston Martin Racing Stefan Mücke 1:58.990 22

23
GT #007 Aston Martin Racing Pedro Lamy 1:59.208 23

24
GT #3 Corvette Racing Antonio García 1:59.348 24

25
GT #93 SRT Motorsports Jonathan Bomarito 1:59.430 25

Iconic 06-24-2013 07:41 AM


Originally Posted by oldstyleGS (Post 1584229211)
Ah NASCRAP fans

Relaxed pit stops = safety, someone will eventually die in NASCAR because of their terrible form of pit stops, mark my words

Flashing brake lights, they dont actually flash, its because of the frequency between the HD TV and the LED's in the lights.

Cars coasting across finish line, its called tradition,

No one seemed happy because 3 laps into the race, a driver was killed.

So its ghey that the winners get flowers? really?

NASCAR is a joke, its funny a fan of NASCAR would complain about passing and bring up Daytona and Talladega when Daytona was a single file joke.

I guess I had the wrong expectations in watching lemans for the first time. I caught the last hour thinking that would be some hard racing to the finish line. Turns out tbat the previous 23 hours had a lot to do with that. I guess I can chalk it up to much like an NFL game that is a blowout in the 4th quarter and the winning team is coasting so to speak. Thanks for the lesson on lemans and I will tune in next years with a better understanding and be pulling for the vettes. Cheers.

BWF07 06-24-2013 07:51 AM


Originally Posted by GuyFromLeMans (Post 1584229563)
That is the bottom line about racing. And every pilot knows it.
You are right about the crash (and btw for those interested in seeing how it happened, I posted the youtube clip of the Corvette cam shot on the first page of this thread).
He did go wide on the connection the the straightaway and lost traction on the blue paint.

BWF07: Did you ever go to the 12hrs of Sebring? Does it work like Le Mans with a mix of prototypes and production cars? How do Corvettes do there?

Yes I have been many times and yes there are actually 5 different classes running at the same time there are three prototype classes, P1, P2 and PC plus two GT classes the GT and the GTC. The difference in ALMS and WEC is there is no PC class and there is no GTC class. The PC class in a spec prototype class called Prototype Challenge and the GTC class is a class of spec type Porsche, where as the GTA class in Europe is a class that is made up of one year old or older GTE class cars and in the GTA you are only allowed to have one professional driver and two as they call them gentleman drivers.


Originally Posted by z28lt1 (Post 1584229605)
IMSA gave Corvette season-long weight penalty addition as well. Le Mans rules allowed them to be 25kg lighter, but Le Mans added in 10kg last week -- that's the odd part, because they weren't fast in practice, so why the addition? That said, it's all a big formula, because each car has different weight and different restrictor requirements to "balance the power". The Aston's were set up to do well, being allowed to be 25kg less than the Corvette's, having a bigger restrictor, and a taller wing. If they weren't faster, they were bad engineers at that point.

I did see the Le Mans BoP after I posted, but I believe that they were originally set to be at the minimum weight of 1245Kg and then had 15Kg added on June 6th. Whereas in the ALMS series they started the year off with a 15Kg additional weight and then they received an additional 15Kg so in their ALMS series they are carrying 30Kg over the minimum weight.
Also at Le Mans the Aston martin's were given a weight break of 20Kg and the Porsches 35Kg, so the AM only weight 1225Kg and the Porsche 1210Kg. That is why it looked like the Corvette's were dragging an anchor.


Originally Posted by maxp (Post 1584232123)
they won if you mean second and fifth place


20
GT #62 Risi Competizione Gianmaria Bruni 1:58.815 20

21
GT #4 Corvette Racing Oliver Gavin 1:58.934 21

22
GT #97 Aston Martin Racing Stefan Mücke 1:58.990 22

23
GT #007 Aston Martin Racing Pedro Lamy 1:59.208 23

24
GT #3 Corvette Racing Antonio García 1:59.348 24

25
GT #93 SRT Motorsports Jonathan Bomarito 1:59.430 25

Not sure where these figures are coming from, but Corvette won the GT class outright this past year at Sebring, passing the Ferrari with about 17 minutes left in the race. I believe those are the 2012 results. The Ferrari did finish ahead of the Corvette in 2012, but because it was a WEC car, the Corvette took the top points in the ALMS series as WEC cars cannot earn ALMS points when only running in 1 or 2 races, same as the ALMS cars cannot earn points at Le mans.

BWF07 06-24-2013 07:55 AM


Originally Posted by US Icon (Post 1584232191)
I guess I had the wrong expectations in watching lemans for the first time. I caught the last hour thinking that would be some hard racing to the finish line. Turns out tbat the previous 23 hours had a lot to do with that. I guess I can chalk it up to much like an NFL game that is a blowout in the 4th quarter and the winning team is coasting so to speak. Thanks for the lesson on lemans and I will tune in next years with a better understanding and be pulling for the vettes. Cheers.

Don't wait until next year, checkout some of the ALMS races. You live in Wisconsin see about attend the race at Road America or watch the petit Le Mans from Road Atlanta in Oct. it is a 10 or 1,000Km race. One thing you will need to know, is all the cars that you saw at Le Mans will not be in the ALMS races. Le mans is a combined WEC and ALMS event.

not08crmanymore 06-24-2013 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by US Icon
I guess I had the wrong expectations in watching lemans for the first time. I caught the last hour thinking that would be some hard racing to the finish line. Turns out tbat the previous 23 hours had a lot to do with that. I guess I can chalk it up to much like an NFL game that is a blowout in the 4th quarter and the winning team is coasting so to speak. Thanks for the lesson on lemans and I will tune in next years with a better understanding and be pulling for the vettes. Cheers.
You never know what will happen in this race.It's one of those you need to watch as much of as possible and record the rest...I mean,from the first 5 minutes to the last hour anything can happen and it does!!:thumbs:

maxp 06-24-2013 08:20 AM

Not sure where these figures are coming from, but Corvette won the GT class outright this past year at Sebring, passing the Ferrari with about 17 minutes left in the race. I believe those are the 2012 results. The Ferrari did finish ahead of the Corvette in 2012, but because it was a WEC car, the Corvette took the top points in the ALMS series as WEC cars cannot earn ALMS points when only running in 1 or 2 races, same as the ALMS cars cannot earn points at Le mans.[/QUOTE]


you are correct Sir! - that was 2012, 2013 below - first and eleventh this year


15 21 1 GT 4 Oliver Gavin / Tommy Milner / Richard Westbrook 2:00.216 333
16 20 2 GT 62 Gianmaria Bruni / Olivier Beretta / Matteo Malucelli 2:00.348 333
17 31 3 GT 17 Wolf Henzler / Bryan Sellers / Nick Tandy 2:01.549 332
18 27 4 GT 55 Bill Auberlen / Maxime Martin / Jörg Müller 2:01.176 330
19 29 5 GT 91 Ryan Dalziel / Dominik Farnbacher / Marc Goossens 2:00.057 329
20 26 6 GT 48 Bryce Miller / Marco Holzer / Richard Lietz 2:01.290 329
21 19 6 PC 7 Tomy Drissi / Rusty Mitchell / Chapman Ducote 1:56.802 326
22 28 7 GT 56 Dirk Müller / Joey Hand / John Edwards 2:00.691 321
23 22 8 GT 97 Darren Turner / Stefan Mucke / Bruno Senna 1:59.780 318
24 33 1 GTC 22 Cooper MacNeil / Jeroen Bleekemolen / Dion von Moltke 2:07.015 315
25 35 2 GTC 45 Nelson Canache, Jr. / Spencer Pumpelly / Brian Wong 2:07.402 315
26 34 3 GTC 30 Henrique Cisneros / Marco Seefried / Sean Edwards 2:07.496 314
27 37 4 GTC 11 Mike Hedlund / Jan Heylen / Jon Fogarty 2:07.320 314
28 36 5 GTC 66 Ben Keating / Damien Faulkner / Craig Stanton 2:08.245 313
29 32 6 GTC 27 Patrick Dempsey / Andy Lally / Joe Foster 2:06.933 311
30 39 7 GTC 10 Michael Avenatti / Andrew Davis / Bob Faieta 2:07.768 311
31 42 8 GTC 99 David Calvert-Jones / Eric Curran / Lawson Aschenbach 2:09.689 309
32 38 9 GTC 44 Pierre Ehret / Alexandre Imperatori / Brett Sandberg 2:08.179 309
33 23 9 GT 007 Paul Dalla Lana / Billy Johnson / Pedro Lamy 2:00.996 307
34 25 10 GT 93 Jonathan Bomarito / Tommy Kendall / Kuno Wittmer 2:00.679 303
35 41 10 GTC 31 Carlos Gomez / Mario Farnbacher / Kuba Giermaziak 2:07.658 301
36 14 7 PC 81 Mirco Schultis / Patrick Simon / Pierre Kaffer 1:55.769 286
37 10 5 P2 01 Scott Sharp / Guy Cosmo / David Brabham 1:53.502 281
38 40 11 GTC 68 Al Carter / Kevin Estre / Carlos de Quesada 2:06.550 269
39 24 11 GT 3 Jan Magnussen / Antonio Garcia / Jordan Taylor 2:00.525 213
40 30 12 GT 23 / Townsend Bell / Leh Keen 2:02.202 209

Johnny@MTI 06-24-2013 08:41 AM

what an awesome race. toyata's sandbagging got them a sweet advantage over the Audis. right at the beginning, when Audi couldn't pull away and toyota was nipping at 1st place!!

The corvettes need the C7R. The C6R is getting fairly dated and having a hard time keeping up.

fyreline 06-24-2013 08:57 AM

Whether it's the Daytona 500 or LeMans, as long as the AHD (Authorities Having Jurisdiction) attempt to "level the playing field" with ever-changing and unevenly-applied restrictions, regulations and assorted other douchebaggery, the racing will suffer. Leave the racing to the racers . . . They are the ones taking the risks, and they are the ones who will know what they need to do to win. History is replete with artificial attempts to make the races "more competitive", and few if any of these ruses has ever had the desired intent. Let the boys (and girls) run, let's see whose car is really faster, better handling, more reliable, etc.

Having said all that, a very heartfelt BRAVO to this years LeMans effort by the Corvettes. They did well under difficult circumstances. The tragic loss of a fellow competitor cast a pall over the race, but in true racer fashion, everyone soldiered on. Here's looking forward to the C7R, less interference by sanctioning bodies foreign and domestic, and a drag race from the final corner to the checkered flag. Now, THAT's racing!

BWF07 06-24-2013 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by Johnny@MTI (Post 1584232493)
what an awesome race. toyata's sandbagging got them a sweet advantage over the Audis. right at the beginning, when Audi couldn't pull away and toyota was nipping at 1st place!!

The corvettes need the C7R. The C6R is getting fairly dated and having a hard time keeping up.

I might agree with you on the Toyota's possible have an advantage, but we will never know because of all the full course cautions.

As for the Corvette being dated, is incorrect. It was nothing more then the BoP and a new tire they had no data on. First off Corvette Racing was given an additional 15Kg of weight bring the weight up to 1260Kg whereas as the Aston Martin was given a 20kg weight reduction and the Porsche was given a 35Kg weight reduction bringing it down to 1210Kg. Also Michelin released a new 2013 tire to the WEC cars (Aston Martin and I believe Porsche) for the April race in at Spa, but did not bring it to America for the ALMS race in May at Laguna Sega, so therefore Corvette Racing had no data as to how the tire would work on their cars and to make matters worse, the amount of test and qualifying was hampered by the inconsistent weather at Le Mans this year. So as you can see Corvette racing was behind the 8-ball from the get go.

Johnny@MTI 06-24-2013 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by BWF07 (Post 1584232792)
I might agree with you on the Toyota's possible have an advantage, but we will never know because of all the full course cautions.

As for the Corvette being dated, is incorrect. It was nothing more then the BoP and a new tire they had no data on. First off Corvette Racing was given an additional 15Kg of weight bring the weight up to 1260Kg whereas as the Aston Martin was given a 20kg weight reduction and the Porsche was given a 35Kg weight reduction bringing it down to 1210Kg. Also Michelin released a new 2013 tire to the WEC cars (Aston Martin and I believe Porsche) for the April race in at Spa, but did not bring it to America for the ALMS race in May at Laguna Sega, so therefore Corvette Racing had no data as to how the tire would work on their cars and to make matters worse, the amount of test and qualifying was hampered by the inconsistent weather at Le Mans this year. So as you can see Corvette racing was behind the 8-ball from the get go.

the contaminators said that the C6R was having it's budget moved towards the building the C7R. if GM wanted to Get testing on tires and other things i really doubt they would struggle renting a track and getting a few hundred sets of tires. Any way it's good marketing if the C7R can massively outperform the C6R. so it would make sense that gm would suck a little bit of performance out of the C6R.
if you watched the interviews with the Corvette team principals they seemed to be in no big rush to go for the win. That's what leads me to believe that something was a cooking.

The new C7R has to be almost finished by now. I wish someone would get some spy shots of that car.

GuyFromLeMans 06-24-2013 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by fyreline (Post 1584232602)
Whether it's the Daytona 500 or LeMans, as long as the AHD (Authorities Having Jurisdiction) attempt to "level the playing field" with ever-changing and unevenly-applied restrictions, regulations and assorted other douchebaggery, the racing will suffer. Leave the racing to the racers . . . They are the ones taking the risks, and they are the ones who will know what they need to do to win. History is replete with artificial attempts to make the races "more competitive", and few if any of these ruses has ever had the desired intent. Let the boys (and girls) run, let's see whose car is really faster, better handling, more reliable, etc.

Don't forget the origins of Le Mans.
This started as an equivalent to the US Open, where the only requirement for competitors, aside from qualifying, was to bring a fully street legal car to the track.
The focus was comparing performance and endurance of sport cars sold to the public. Then the technological progress made on cars, prompted AHD to create the prototype class, and mix them up together, and I agree that since then, we have seen too many convoluted regulations around the weight-power ratio, some of which can be debated in terms of their merit.
With that said, I for one, think that SOME of these regulations are a good thing: Without a limitation in the parts you can change throughout the race, you might just as well hand the trophy over to the factory with the most available cash before the racing begins.
The "Endurance" meaning would then be completely lost if you gave me 10 motors to complete the race. I think everyone agrees with that.
I also think fuel and tire limitations are a good thing, because I like the idea of transfer of technology from the race track to my own vette.
The pressure applied on Manufacturers to consider efficiency in addition to performance, has a great impact on the cars you and I drive everyday, and this is what the Le Mans spirit has always been about, and to some extent always will be about.

:cheers:

BWF07 06-24-2013 11:18 AM


Originally Posted by Johnny@MTI (Post 1584233074)
the contaminators said that the C6R was having it's budget moved towards the building the C7R. if GM wanted to Get testing on tires and other things i really doubt they would struggle renting a track and getting a few hundred sets of tires. Any way it's good marketing if the C7R can massively outperform the C6R. so it would make sense that gm would suck a little bit of performance out of the C6R.
if you watched the interviews with the Corvette team principals they seemed to be in no big rush to go for the win. That's what leads me to believe that something was a cooking.

The new C7R has to be almost finished by now. I wish someone would get some spy shots of that car.

The question on the tires, was not that they did not have the money for testing, it was that the tires were not made available to any Michelin team from the US until they arrived in Le mans. As for "Corvette team principals they seemed to be in no big rush to go for the win", was because they knew they were not as fast as the Aston Martins or the Porsche that were WEC cars due to the fact of the tires as well as the added weight to Corvette and reduced weight to the Aston and Porsche WEC teams. So it was much more prudent to run consistently and have both cars finish and just maybe those running ahead of CR would have issues and drop out as did happen to the leading AM around the 5 hour to go mark.

As far as the idea that the C7R outperforming the C6R is really not an issue. Seeing the C7 will be out in the market place for more then 6 months before the C7R turns a competitive lap on the track. Beside the street version of the C6 is nothing like the C6R, except for the frame and a few other item. The engine is not even available in and model of the current C6 and they are going to be using that same engine design they have now in the C7R with the exception of the DI. So I am not believing that they are simply going through the motions this year and spend the majority of their 2013 budget on the C7R .

z28lt1 06-24-2013 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by BWF07 (Post 1584233676)
As far as the idea that the C7R outperforming the C6R is really not an issue. Seeing the C7 will be out in the market place for more then 6 months before the C7R turns a competitive lap on the track. Beside the street version of the C6 is nothing like the C6R, except for the frame and a few other item. The engine is not even available in and model of the current C6 and they are going to be using that same engine design they have now in the C7R with the exception of the DI. So I am not believing that they are simply going through the motions this year and spend the majority of their 2013 budget on the C7R .

The team manager agreed with you, despite what the announcers said. When he was interviewed, he stated that there preparations have been 100% the same as previous years, and that the C7 was being designed by the design team (at Pratt and Miller), and the track team had nothing to do with the design, other than the input of what works and doesn't based upon the experience with the current car.


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