Originally Posted by FlyBono24 (Post 1583773769)

Wow... get any of the nice options and you're looking at $70k+

Originally Posted by drmustang (Post 1583775982)

Exactly, crazy for a Coupe isn't it. Is that pricing going to work. Obviously not outside of the initial rush from the got be first guys. The discounts, rebates, financing incentives, etc will come to the rescue as always.

Originally Posted by FlyBono24 (Post 1583773769)

Wow... get any of the nice options and you're looking at $70k+

Originally Posted by GM'er (Post 1583742847)

For Release: Friday, April 26, 2013, 12:30 p.m. EDT
2014 Corvette Stingray Starts at $51,995

DETROIT – The 2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray coupe will have a suggested starting retail price of $51,995, and the Corvette Stingray Convertible will start at $56,995. Both prices include a $995 destination fee but exclude tax, title, and license. “The 2014 Corvette Stingray perfectly embodies Chevrolet’s mission to deliver more than
expected for our customers,” said Chris Perry, vice president, Chevrolet marketing. “The Corvette Stingray delivers a combination of performance, design and technology that very few manufacturers can match, and none can even come close for $52,000.”

Standard features on the all-new 2014 Corvette Stingray include:
�� Seating with lightweight magnesium frames for exceptional support, and eight-way power adjustment
�� Five-position Drive Mode Selector that tailors up to 12 vehicle attributes
�� New seven-speed manual transmission with Active Rev Matching
�� 6.2L LT1 V-8 engine with direct injection, Active Fuel Management, continuously variable valve timing and an advanced combustion system
�� Carbon fiber hood on all models, and a carbon fiber removable roof panel on coupes
�� Aluminum frame that is 99 pounds lighter (45 kg) and 57-percent stiffer than the previous model’s structure
�� Advanced, high-intensity discharge (HID) and light-emitting diode (LED) lighting
�� Dual, eight-inch configurable driver/infotainment screens, with next-generation Chevrolet MyLink infotainment system and rear vision camera
�� Bose nine-speaker audio system with SiriusXM Satellite radio, Bluetooth connectivity, USB and SD card and auxiliary input jack
�� Keyless access with push-button start
�� Power tilt/telescope steering wheel
�� An all-new, fully electronic top on the convertible that can be lowered remotely using the key fob

As shown at the North American International Auto Show, the Stingray coupe fitted with the
major available options would be $73,360, including:
�� 3LT interior package, with leather-wrapped interior ($8,005)
�� Z51 Performance Package ($2,800)
�� Competition sports seats ($2,495)
�� Exposed-carbon-fiber roof panel ($1,995)
�� Magnetic Ride Control with Performance Traction Management ($1,795)
�� Dual-mode exhaust system ($1,195)
�� Carbon fiber interior trim ($995)
�� Sueded, microfiber-wrapped upper interior trim ($995)
�� Red-painted calipers ($595)
�� Black-painted wheels ($495)

The 3LT interior package includes: Bose, 10-speaker surround-sound audio system; SiriusXM Satellite radio with one-year subscription and HD radio receiver; color head-up display; memory package; navigation system; heated and ventilated seats with power lumbar and bolster adjustment; premium Napa leather seating surfaces; and leather-wrapped dash and instrument panel, console and door panels.

The Z51 Performance Package includes: high-performance gear ratios; transmission-cooling system; larger 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels and tires; larger, slotted rotors and brakecooling ducts; electronic limited-slip differential and differential cooling system; unique chassis tuning; and available Magnetic Ride Control active-handling system with Performance Traction Management.

Equipped with the Z51 package, the Corvette Stingray is capable of accelerating from 0–60 mph in under four seconds, and more than 1 g in cornering.

About Chevrolet
Founded in 1911 in Detroit, Chevrolet is now one of the world's largest car brands, doing business in more than 140 countries and selling more than 4.5 million cars and trucks a year. Chevrolet provides customers with fuel-efficient vehicles that feature spirited performance, expressive design and high quality. More information on Chevrolet models can be found at www.chevrolet.com.###

Originally Posted by 05dsom (Post 1583779946)

thats a bit high for the base (non-ZO6/ZR1/GS) coupe isn't it?

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583770768)

Have you ever driven a Ferrari 458, or a 997 Turbo, or an Audi A8?

Do you know what it is like to have the disposable income that allows you to spend $180-300k on a car and not worry about the money?

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583792360)

... That's pretty much my point.

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583794133)

How so? You said..."they have more money than sense". What is it about having enough disposable income to be able to afford a $180-300k car that indicates someone doesn't have any sense? I'd offer that having a job and managing investments to be able to have that amount of disposable income indicates just the opposite.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583794513)

You basically said that the money means nothing to them, and they're looking for ways to burn it, and those cars make the cut....I think those cars exemplify overindulgence and greed, and just a large part of what is wrong with the world, to be honest.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583766585)

I certainly have seen that happen... More than once. The latest that comes to mind is a C&D comparo between the ZR1, R8, 911 Turbo, and an A-Mart of some kind IIRC. Not that those magazine comparos mean very much to me.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583766585)

That's the thing, those differences are entirely subjective and debatable. Maybe some people legitimately prefer the look and feel of a 911 over a Corvette by an amount significant enough to justify the price to them, but who are you [or anyone] to tell someone who preferred the look and feel of a Corvette that they are wrong?
Also, there is a reason that Porsche (last I checked) has by far the highest margins of any car manufacturer. A large part of what you're paying for when you buy a Porsche is the badge.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583794513)

To be clear, though, I am not at all saying that those who buy Ferrari's, A-Marts, or Porsches are all bad people. I mean hell, as a car enthusiast, it's hard for me not to drool at the sights and sounds from some of those cars myself. I can understand the appeal. I just consider them objectively wasteful purchases. For almost anyone.

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583794955)

So you're an "Occupy Wall Street" guy. OK. Now I get it.

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583794955)

I'll ask you again: Have you driven a Ferrrari 458? How about an Audi R8 V10, or a GT3RS 4.0? All these cars bring what I consider to be HUGE driver sanctification to the driving experience, primarily in the subjective assessment areas. It takes a large amount of disposable income to be able to buy any of these cars; however, neither having the disposable income or being smart enough to appreciate what these cars bring to the game, indicates someone has "more money than sense".

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583794955)

BTW, let me add that I know people who have to stretch to be able to buy a used and beat up old pickup truck. Some of them think anyone who has the disposable income to be able to buy a new C7 in the same frame of reference you think about those who have hte disposable income to buy a +$180k sports car. It's all relative.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583795597)

So when someone says something you don't like or don't agree with, you come back with meaningless platitudes.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583795597)

But again, objectively speaking, you run into the law of diminishing returns by almost every measurable quality around the price of the Corvette, and certainly well before the price of a 458 Italia or a GT3RS.

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583795704)

Nope. I'm just calling it like it is. You are the one who posts negatively about behaviors of people "with money", and your comments echo OWS sentiments.

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583795730)

And this is where you continue to miss the point: it's not all about the objective data.

Originally Posted by Guibo (Post 1583795253)

Last test between a ZR1 and 911 Turbo in C&D saw the Porsche winning, and that was even with price factored in. And C&D, being an American magazine, looks at things more from a bang/buck perspective than other countries. Do the same test in UK/Europe and the outcome isn't so nice.


He's not saying anything about those people being wrong. He's saying that subjective traits matter (and Tadge Juechter himself will back him up on this).
And is that badge prestige not warranted? Step inside a 997 or C6 (or Panamera vs CTS) and it should be abundantly clear who sweated the details. If you believe in the free market system, in which consumers vote with their money to determine what an item is worth, then you would have to admit that it is warranted. And that is an objective measure that trumps magazine racetrack stats: Compare volume of Porsches sold vs an equivalently priced Corvette.

And why should performance criteria be the only objective measure? We could consider:

• JD Power customer survey results
• JD Power quality survey results
• Best Driver's Car results
• Torsional stiffness, which helps produce a tighter car, one less prone to creaks and rattles
• Economy and emissions, which can have a tax implication for the customer
• The fact that a 911 can carry 2 extra passengers in a pinch
• The fact that if you live in a RHD market, you have a car that meets your needs
• Better convertible rollover protection

Still think the Corvette is automatically the better car?

Then, there are the subjective traits found on a road but which you find in the test sheet from a racetrack (where maybe 1% of the driving population spends maybe 1% of its time):

• Traction in cold/damp/snowy conditions
• Composure over bumps
• Ride quality
• Better seats that provide better support

When you buy a Porsche, it's not just the racetrack experience you're paying for. There, if it is slower than the Corvette, it's still within maybe a 95 percentile. In these other areas, the Corvette has traditionally been far below that (although the C7 could change some things).

Originally Posted by Guibo (Post 1583795253)

So you're saying it's better for them to give up on a car that appeals to them by sight and sound (how about smell? Maybe they find the smell of resins objectionable), and suppress what they really want in a car, even though they can easily afford it? In other words, they should settle and not do what makes them truly happy as an automotive enthusiast.
You did say they have more money than sense, and whether you realize it or not, reverse snobbery can be a form of snobbery too.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583796008)

If people want all those things (traction, ride quality, two extra seats, etc) and are not terribly interested in performance, there are better options than a Porsche that also won't even sacrifice much performance and will be cheaper. Also, economy and emissions are not any better in most Porsches than the Corvette.
However, you make a fair point that the Porsche allows you to make slightly fewer compromises, and I can't deny that there are things almost every Porsche does better than almost every Corvette (or Mustang, etc). I just think that the price difference is more significant than the quality difference in those areas. I never said Porsches were bad cars... I just believe they are overpriced, especially for people whose primary interest is performance.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583796008)

. I dislike what I consider wastefulness.

Originally Posted by Guibo (Post 1583796215)

I think some perspective is in order: I don't think anyone is saying that performance doesn't matter or that these people don't buy these cars for performance. I'm personally talking about the neglible differences between 10/10ths differences that can only be found on a smooth, dry track. On the road, there's not going to be shred of difference between them, and many road tests suggest that it is the Corvette that struggles to keep up in conditions outside of a track.
If it is your belief that the primary interest of these people is these fractional differences, then that ultimately is the problem: These people are not after that. If they were, they wouldn't have bought a Porsche. A GT500 or ZL1/Z28 could objectively outperform a Corvette on a track; are you going to admit, then, that those cars are better? By your standards, you'd have no other choice.

Originally Posted by Guibo (Post 1583796215)

The price differences seem more significant to you, but you are not the sole decider of worth. The free market decides that.

Originally Posted by Guibo (Post 1583796215)

Economy and emissions are better in the Porsches, especially those with PDK. The outgoing Cayman got EPA 20/29 and emitted 225 g/km of CO2. The C6 gets 16/26 and 277 g/km.

Originally Posted by Guibo (Post 1583796215)

That there may be better options for people who want Porsche pace, with 2 extra seats, better ride quality, better interior quality and customization, better build quality, overall refinement (are there really? Like what?) doesn't make the Corvette the better car.

Originally Posted by Notch (Post 1583796491)

And if owners of these cars don't consider the money spent on these cars wastefull??

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583796707)

Now you're starting down that slippery slope. If we're talking about "street" performance, then yeah, there isn't much difference between a Porche and a Vette. Nor is there much difference between a Porsche and a GT86.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583796707)

I never said we should ban the sale of Porsches... I am merely expressing my personal [strong] opinion on the value of Porsches.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583796707)

I was speaking of the C7, not the C6. We don't officially know the final mileage numbers, but the speculated/rumored values are very good.

Originally Posted by RocketGuy3 (Post 1583796707)

It won't be exactly as fast as a Porsche all-around (just like a Porsche isn't exactly as fast as a Corvette), but they can give better benefits in those areas of practicality while not sacrificing much performance. Like a 335i or a CTS-V. Obviously there are some tradeoffs, but again, my point is just that the price difference for the Porsche outweighs the benefits IMO.