Interesting opinions on PRC 265 heads from different shops...
 

Im getting ready to start ordering parts for my H/C build which hopefully will start late next month or early June. I reached out to 3 different shops(all are vendors here). All 3 werent in favor of PRCs. As soon as i mention them they'd recommend against them. I started asking as to why they dont like PRC and here are couple of the reasons.

Shop A: "Because their chamber design is terrible and are very sensitive to detonation, and don’t come close to running as well as the WCCH heads do"

Shop B: "On a couple of the cammed cars, there has been as much as 12-14 rwhp difference"....further explained that same exact parts were used and bla bla bla

Shop C: "In my honest opinion, they are hacks and I have seen so many issues with their engines over the years that I'm honestly suprised they are still in business."

Anyways, i was 100% set on going with PRCs this way my car doesnt have to be down for any amount of time and net cost after i sell my stock heads is roughly the same. Now, im not so sure anymore as these shops have done god knows how many cam/heads packages on LS7s.

As of late, a lot of CF members have gone with PRC heads and im curious the shops that you have used if they had any kinda opinion on PRCs?

Reading other threads it does appear that perhaps WCCH ported heads make more power than PRCs which is kinda what bugs me a bit as im trying to get close to 600whp.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Hold on...let me get ready....

ok...http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/popcorn.gif

I got no complaints with mine. My car actually made exactly the same power as the guy who I sold my stock heads to who sent them to wcch for their stage 2 setup. We have same exact setup.
Granted different dynos BUT both seem to read similar and aren't happy dynos as we both made 488whp with full bolt ons and heads no cam.

600whp is prolly only reachable on a dyno on the happy side to be honest or with a very max effort H/C/I upped compression build

Does anyone else besides Texas Speed even sell the PRC's?

No issues with mine. A lot of shops like to talk bad about other places. I've heard bad stuff about mast heads, and others. It seems people just badmouth what they don't sell.

well I don't know if Every case if I would call it badmouth persay maybe some do but ... more, certain shops may just prefer certain products based on the experience they've had here... just like we as forum members may prefer to stick with a certain product or vendor ourselves over another.

600rwhp NA will need a pretty big cam, more compression, or a happy dyno. Very doable but I think there will be some compromises in street manners. Maybe not a big deal for your needs but just saying.

Doubt you'd see any difference with PRC265s or WCCH2s (my new short name for WCCH Stage 2 heads). I don't see how they can be that different since they're modeled off the OE heads and just run through a TPS port/polish program. They're also 6 bolt if you plan on FI down the line.

I've got a set of WCCH2s on my car and they work great and I do have a slight preference on keeping an OE head, but I think I would have been just as satisfied with PRC265s if I were to go down that path. I did strongly consider a set of PRCs in my build though.

With all of that said, I don't have any first hand experience with these heads but I did get to ride in Drews car that has PRC265s and they seemed just fine to me. I think he just finished an air strip event without issue, so they have been driven hard. It is possible that the shops have some knowledge or possibly motive which influences their recommendation for heads, but based on the research I've done, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the differences between the two sets of heads.

At this point in time, I'll take my chances on PRC's vs. what I keep reading on poor oem machining. Maybe they're ticked they don't make them so it's easy to cut up others........not good for business though.........and besides, if the shops send the oem's out, they can profit of them, probably not so much on PRC's as I doubt they get a jobber cost.

EDIT required ???

Without anything concrete I'm not too worried. My race instructor has a fully Texas-speed built engine in his C5 track car and he beats the hell out of it relentlessly. He's blown.up plenty of motors but his Texas speed motor is going strong.

Boy, I've been gone for a few weeks for treatment and now I’m back and stumbled upon this thread :crazy:

Many things changed, but a lot remains the same :sadangel:

Okay, on the subject of the heads:
Both units: the stock modified by WCCH and the Texas Speed PCR heads are fine. Both are great upgrades from the stock unmolested units. I repeat stock unmolested units.:blueangel:

I have successfully sold, installed and tuned both units with great results. In fact, just three weeks, ago a local guy stopped by for a Speed Density tune on his super clean forged pistons 2008 C6Z. He purchased one of our cams; he order a set of the PRC heads and completed the install himself with the help of his younger son. I believe his final CR was in the 12.1 range and after dyno tuning it, we managed to get him 608rwhp avg. the highest pull was 610.4…all on 93oct Shell gas. The combination worked well and he was really happy. :cool:

I’ve seen a few of the PRC heads and they are good quality. However, I would suggest getting a good quality milling job followed with good tuning to recognize all available power. Any two of these heads will eliminate any of those heads issues/concerns seen from the stock unmolested units. Again, noticed I said unmolested!!! The stock units, once modified/molested properly are perfectly fine.:yesnod:

We sell and install the WCCH units and had great success with them dating back to our LS1 days. The WCCH units never let me down and when modified, they offer great power, flexibility and reliability. I am great friends with the guys at Texas Speed, they have good stuff and they definitely helped me out on numerous occasions including visits at the track. This is no secret, I had a long term relationship with Richard at WCCH and I love the fact that he allows me to try out any ideas without much fuss. Geez, who knows how many set of heads I’ve sent to him for R&D…some become junk but most were success stories; it’s the price you pay for exploring – I am not afraid to explore.

In summary, I’ve seen and tuned both heads from both companies and never experienced any issues. Just do yourself a favor and choose one over your unmolested heads because you could suffer head failures which can potentially lead to a lot more repair cost. :ack:

Thanks,
Carlos:thumbs:

Why does it always seem that you need to have 100% identical results of two cars to fully see the true picture. The only way we will truly know if one is better then the other is if 2 cars with the exact same mods except for heads dyno on the same day same shop. I have not heard one bad thing about the PRC's until now. Due to not prefering the downtime they were the route I planned to go when the time comes...STILL IS!!!
This could be header wars all over again.

Thanks Carlos :thumbs:

A buddy of mine just made 922rwhp with a LSX 440 and a YSI. It maxed out the MAF at 6,000rmp. He is switching to a Speed Density Tune and a 2 bar map. It should make 1,000HP Plus after the swap.

I bought the PRC 265's for my setup. I should have dyno numbers and track times in a few weeks.


In my opinion the over priced shops have to bad mouth the competitively priced shops to justify their extra fees.

I've been racing and building setups for 13 years, and all of my setups have run better than they should because I put max effort into the setup. I didn't just buy heads and cam and expect huge numbers. I bought every bolt-on that was offered on the car plus the heads and cam. As a result my car ran better than every other heads/ cam car.


My 1997 LS1 Swap TransAm , has a stock bottom end 346 LS1 that made 507rwhp and 445rwtq with a set of PRC 5.3 Heads and a G5X4 Cam and every bolt-on. Not bad for a little stock LS1..


Best of Luck with your build.

PRC:

I've seen their ported LS3 heads. Look like s%^t.

The LS7 heads looked pretty good.

PRC is Texas Speed. Texas Speed makes the PRC heads, and also has distributors other than themselves that sell them.

Thank you all for opinions, much appreciated it!

Point of this thread was to help someone like me or perhaps someone in similar boat as me. I obviously was in favor of PRC heads hence why i almost went with them. I still might as im still undecided.

All these shops i talked to just offered their opinion and were open for me to bring my own PRC heads just to clarify that.

It appears that perhaps its a close tie and personal preference or just one of those never ending debates.

I used Speed Inc in Illinois and they work with PRC and have done over 30 ls7s with the setup and have never had issues.

Just for my .02, both Z's in my avatar are running stock heads that have been worked by Texas Speed, and i am pleased with both. That said, don't forget Darin Morgan @ Reher Morrison. He's an option I'd have used if it could've been a turn key deal.

It all comes down to whether you care about down time for sending the heads out and waiting the month or whatever it is people are having to wait now. Or just having a set of heads ready to go and not wait. I went with PRC for that reason alone I did not want to let my car sit at a shop for 2+wks, instead I had the heads swapped to the PRCs in 1day.

Also brand new Ti intake valves is a nice plus, not that it is needed just a plus

Spot on :iagree: 100% . Either way I don't think you can really go wrong. Just a matter like you said of personal preference

Seem's a lot of people bad mouth TSP and or PRC for some reason. I have a 402ci short block/Cam/Heads I got built by them that is still living and has been ran hard for 5 years. Never had an issue. In fact my car with less mods than others have ran as good or better at the track and or street. I did this all with stage 1 ls6 heads (Old CNC program) and a smaller cam than most (MS3). I eventually went with a bigger cam and made some extra power but I remember everyone was hating that I was using a MS3 in a stroker. TSP said it would be a great cam and my Dynamic CR and Quench were perfect with it.

I am a big fan personally and honestly wouldn't hesitate when I have to build another motor though I have friends that dont like TSP for there own reasons...

Dont forget they do all there own motors now and most of there old motors were always farmed out.

+2

He worked over my WCCH 2 heads and really got them to their best potential.

I ordered them. And they were never touched by anyone at GM or their suppliers so that is a selling point for me.

I have only seen 1 bad piece of info about them after scouring the interwebz for hours. And it was from a LONG time ago. 1 piece of bad info from 10+ years ago from 1 internet warrior... i discounted that and order the 265s. can't wait for them to arrive already.

Not to discredit you but I've heard similar things, like what the OP is saying, from shops who perform work but don't sell any inhouse products.


None of it has been about their LS7 line but none the less I can understand his concern. I saw PRC ported OE LS3 castings 2 weeks ago. I was soooo surprised they put our a port job like that. Looked like hell to be completely honest.

Do you mind sharing this? Would be interested in seeing it.

Hi Mookster, I know you are interested in PRC, but I have Brodix Br7 WCCH ported heads on my car and we are near each other if you want to see them up close (installed).

DUDE!!!!!! I forgot your username and deleted all the PMs ...PM en route

It was very minimal porting and not very much of the port was a actually touched.

The spring pad boss that protrudes in the port was ported slightly but left a protruding sharp edge right before the valve guide boss. The heads were waiting for a customers car. I asked the shop staff about them and they were disappointed in the work too.

^ I read the whole thread, how does that pertain, other than being Texas Speed?

Just doing some additional research on Tx Sp to see how their products are

I'm very pleased with the PRC's I installed on my 07. I would recommend the TI intake valves. I went with the hollow stem SS and they are a bit noisy. Also make sure you change the oil after about 500miles and you will be very happy with the results.

I could add plenty of info to this thread and quite a few very interesting experiences with one of the vendors in question, but I ain't one to gossip. :lol:

I'm guessing that one vendor is not WCCH:lurk:

I have WCCH heads on my car and we encourage people to use them, based on personal and professional experience so........

Hey Mookster, I also have Brodix BR7 heads from WCCH... If you want pics let me know...

Interesting thread Mookster linked to. I had read it before and it made me glad that I had chosen WCCH heads instead.

Not saying that there is anything necessarily wrong with PRCs.

But after reading that, I'd hope they got whatever issue causing that, sorted out.

I had WCCH on my car too, then I....

As someone else mentioned, have you considered the Brodix heads from WCCH?

for what its worth. I just had PRC 265 heads (w/ Hollow-Stem intake/exhaust valves) put on my otherwise stock 07 Z. actually its not bone stock, it has borla s-type exhaust and custom x-pipe. all the work was done by Cordes Performance Racing in Mesa, AZ.

anyways, the valvetrain is still a little noisy (which was explained to me that it probably would be beforehand due to the higher springrate in the PRC heads). but other than that they seem legit. I have ran it pretty hard a few times on the street and it runs strong.

i didn't get a before dyno, but with those heads, the exhaust, and a custom Nic D tune, it made 476whp 440tq.

I am very happy with it. this was really a preventative ordeal for me. so the peace of mind helps me sleep, and helps me pound the gas pedal without fear.

So you have both hollow stemmed intake and exhaust valves?

Hmm im not totally sure. I went with the 300.00 upgrade on the heads based on the recommendations of the shop and texas speed.. There were the middle ones. The titanium ones were best but like 600 bones. Im not an expert.

:iagree: Huh?

Oh also the shop ported the intake manifold.

Texas speeds website says. "Hollow stem 2.20" intake/stainless exhaust vavle add 300.00" I went with thay.

Like I said. Im not even close to being an expert. I just wanted some peace of mind after reading all these scary stories

I'm reading that as the intake valves being hollow stemmed titanium, solid stainless steel, or hollow stemmed stainless steel.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that PRC 265 cylinder heads use solid stainless steel exhaust valves.

Mookster, have the PRC's installed, I have read of many members here doing just the same, as far as 600 rwhp, very hard to achieve , I have a aluminum 440" LMR with almost every bolt on money can buy!! I'm not there, I have had a cam installed that would have gotten me close, but, the drivability was so bad, I had it taken out immediately!! if your ready to devote your car too the track!!! get the nastiest cam you can buy, if your going to enjoy and drive on the street, buy a cam that goes along with your driving style, don't be hung up on numbers! and enjoy the hell out of it!! cam / heads and a couple bolt ons are all you need to achieveve a seriously fast street car , I couldn't love mine more, so fast!! Enjoy...

Personal example of Richard's (WCCH) customer server:

I purchased a set of (used) LS1 heads that had been worked over by WCCH circa 2004/5. After running the heads for a period of time one of the valve springs broke.

I called Richard to inquire about the springs and what I should replace them with. I told him that I purchased on the used market.

Richard explained that there had been a manufacturing issue with the springs (not his fault) and mailed me a couple replacement springs at no cost.

I think you know who will get my business when I do a heads/cam package on my Z. :cheers:

:eek: WOW.

So you didn't even originally purchase the heads from Richard back in 2004-2005.

Yet he still made good on them years later, a set of heads that you didn't even originally buy from him?

That kind of customer service, gets you noticed quickly. Just by giving you those springs, he got himself a customer for a larger item.

Had this been anyone else, I can just see it now. "Uh, sir, we don't know you and you didn't originally buy the heads from us, so get lost."

Not Richard though.

Exactly. I purchased them off the web used and a year (at least) after running them in my heads/cam/turbo C5 a spring broke.