The people that spend double on something else need to find something to justify the cost. They cant justify it on looks nor performance or maintenance costs.

If you like B e e m e r's so much, go find a Beemer board. Jeez.

Maybe some of us like our cars.:thumbs:

:iagree:

Lets all go over to the BMW forum and argue with those Nancy's. :crazy: :rofl:

Yea, I started to go in that direction. The specific wife/girlfriend going with you on the 2000 mile drive could without question affect the overall assessment of the car.

Driving 2000 miles with this...

http://i44.tinypic.com/24mhngn.jpg

would put me in a different mood about the car I'm driving, than driving 2000 with this...it's the "subjective" stuff all over again.

http://i41.tinypic.com/167mo2p.jpg

:rofl::rofl:

We can all agree with that. :yesnod:

Cruel example, but I would agree with that. :lol:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e...00/cowboy3.gif

http://resources3.news.com.au/images...n-m1-nov22.jpg

Got my loaded M3 with 13k miles on it for $52K.

I'm on them already, thanks. I stay here because I still like the widebody C6's. I'm on the Porsche sites as well because I like the 911 and Cayman S. Unlike many of you here, I don't bow at the alter or swing on the nutsack of any particular manufacturer.

I'm glad that you like your car. Honestly. I just hope for a better interior/seats/etc. in the next version.

Nancy's :crazy2:

Just trying to point out your absolute nonsense.

Now why would I even own a car that I see absolutely no value in?

I've driven, and driven in enough of them to know that they're just a "glorified status symbol". Nothing about the 650 vert or hard top, M3 or even their "luxury" 7 series impresses me.

Two words sum them up...overpriced crap!!!

This is just too hilarious!!!

Are you are dreaming? I think it's more like a nightmare :eek:...quick, somebody toss some cold water on this boy!!!

M3 seat's have good support but no better than the sport seats with adjustable bolsters that come in every 3ZR package ZR1.

As far as comfort...they just come up far short of reaching any kind of comfort. sorry:(

They're like sitting on a wooden park bench with a thin sheet of leather covering the top of it. If you're calling that a seat, then you just need to get out more...:lol:

WHY?.......:rofl:

And you will admit to that?? OMG!!!!!! :crazy2: :rofl:

I was thinking salvage title price myself. :thumbs:

They would have to pay me for a "pristine" M3... then I'd donate it to charity.

At least it would be worth something then...:cheers:

Funny how you take a shot at General Motors, yet every brand they make beats BMW's in quality. Every brand of GM cars beats BMW in dependability for 2011.

So it actually looks like you keep accepting the **** BMW throws at you just for pure status. That is indeed sad in more ways then one.


http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/17/j...incoln-best-b/

Looks as if that has already been done. :thumbs:

From the forum alone there are several Corvette owners that can afford a 458 and choose the Vette. All you need to do is take a moment to read and learn. It really is not all that hard.:eek:

Yeah sure:rofl:.....Do some research and educate yourself before running your yap and letting everyone know what an imbecile you are.

One owner with tons of warranty left. Just had it at VIR last Saturday for a private day track rental. Drove 4.5 hours there; drove this piss out of it on Saturday for four hours on the track. Drove it back home Sunday morning. FLAWLESS.

Unlike you waxers and poseurs, I drive mine like its supposed to be driven.

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/...m3zcpblack.jpg

Hey Junior --- BMW M3 was #1 in the Sporty (See GT) Category. BMW numbers were dragged down by the N54 engine with the HPFP issues. ON top of that the S65 engine in the BMW has won engine of the year EVERY year it has been in existance. Sorry to burst your bubble sport.

Last time I checked, BMW was not bankrupt and bailed out by it's Government either.

To each his own. Vette is shock and awe, rock and roll. Porsche is surgical strike, symphony (and it looks the part, boring!). I love rock and roll, would fall a sleep in a symphony concert (I simply do not waste my time buying tickets for it, my bed is paid for it). 65K vs 97K?....Not only I am laughing all the way to the bank, try to DIY on the porsche or get more horsepower out of it?, forget it, it is already almost tapped out. Vette?...another 200-600HP on tap for mere 10-25K. Spend the 30K difference on the vette (including the custom leather competition interior), you would have a car that would compete with cars costing 8 times more. A true hotrodders dream!

Maybe BMW should subcontract GM to build there cars. Quality would go up and MSRP would go down.

I've never owned a vehicle not made in the US. Just the way I feel about where I spend my money. Wouldn't matter how good the BMW is. I take some pleasure in chasing them down on the track.

And if I'm paying $100K for a car you can bet your ass it won't be a Chevy with ****** seats and a tupperware/fisher price looking interior.

No, you see BMW is in business to make a profit; not get bailed out by it's Government, wipe out the Bond holders and line the pockets of the UAW. Just wouldn't work.

Must have hit a sore spot I see. Name calling is in effect. :thumbs:

I drive mine to the track and drive home too. Your car looked like one I chased down and he pulled off the track as I was going to pass him.

Well, I bought mine to drive hard, not to showoff.

To each his own. Vette is shock and awe, rock and roll. Porsche is surgical strike, symphony (and it looks the part, boring!). I love rock and roll, would fall a sleep in a symphony concert (I simply do not waste my time buying tickets for it, my bed is paid for it). 65K vs 97K?....Not only I am laughing all the way to the bank, try to DIY on the porsche or get more horsepower out of it?, forget it, it is already almost tapped out. Vette?...another 200-600HP on tap for mere 10-25K. Spend the 30K difference on the vette (including the custom leather competition interior), you would have a car that would compete with cars costing 8 times more. A true hotrodders dream!....:salute:

:iagree:x1000.....:cheers:

:flag:

Yeah but you're not so......:leaving:

Beautiful car.:thumbs:

You brought up the smart ass "salvage title" comment sporto. Deal with it.

I won't comment too much on the "pulling off the track" comment as I am smart enough to know that the biggest factor at the track is the guy behind the steering wheel....... Just ask the novice in the 2010 C6 Z06 that finished next to last in our little group of six last weekend.

:iagree:now yer talkin', my friend,...in the sad, sordid little life i lead,...[it's just pitiful,...] i LIVE for racer's avatars!!!,..but seriously,..i've sat in many a friends 911's,..and vettes, and even have a friend who's been lucky enough in life to be able to afford a couple of ferrari's,..[he NEVER buys them new,..i'll tell ya that!],..and my observation has always been,..that just like everything in life,..ya get what ya pay for,..of course the porsches and ferrari's have higher quality interiors,...they cost more!,...having said that, i've never found the vettes interiors to be terrible,..they seem perfectly fine to me,..[i'm kinda a little guy,..5 ft 7., so they all fit me just fine!],...quality isn't quite as nice as a 911,..but it more than makes up for that in being a performance bargain by comparo,..as i said,..at the vettes price point, ya can't have everything,..it is an awesome sportscar,..that,..thankfully,..like the 911, still comes with a manual transmission,..my ultimate buying point now on these cars!:cheers:

I couldn't agree more. Actually, the only thing that bugs me is the outdated NAV, but if that's your issue, fix is very easy :)

My first Corvette was a C5, and even though it had OK interior, its fit and finish could noticeably be better. It's not really the case with C6, though. My brother owns a Mercedes S500, and it is not much different than what we have in Corvettes. I sincerely believe C6s are still judged per old memories of 90s American cars, C5s, etc.

I have to agree with OnPoint, it is a beauty!!!

Just not for me on many many levels...:cheers:

And what is that supposed to mean?

:lol: :rofl:notch,..back in the day [before marriage, in other words],..i dated both types,...and let me say, in my humble opinion,..there is something to be said for,..."the bigger the cushion,..the better the pushin"!,...i had girlfriends that were ALL skin and bones!,...found i prefered a little meat on them there bones!,...but yer so right bout the drivin' companion, my friend!:cheers:

You must be on one hell of a ego trip. You come on here bashing the Corvette, insulting people along with poor excuses for a car that suffers poor quality.


Also for the last 2 years the entire BMW line has performed below industry standards. That is the last 2 years. In 2009 they performed at industry standards. Each year they perform under that is under Hyundai of all cars.

Maybe you should educate yourself before spouting off some excuse about a engine.


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/17/j...-lead-imports/

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/18/p...-2010-vehicle/

As for the BK. Do you really want to get into history of automakers? I think not. Also maybe if you took time to learn, many of the greatest companies in the world have filed for BK at some point in their history.

Some of the greatest companies in the world have filed BK in the past including.
Hershey's
Ford
Heinz
Walt Disney
Among others.
http://www.law-margulies.com/CM/Bank...yArticles3.asp

You seem to bashing GM pretty bad so even if you had the means why would you spend $100K on one?...

This means walk: :leaving:

:iagree:....:lol:

So how is that calling someone names? Little dig got to ya?

No doubt driver makes a difference. I did actually see a real poser one day at the track. Brand new Z06, drivers suit, helmet, gloves and shoes. First time on the track and he only was out several times and he had someone taking photos of him next to the car holding his helmet and then in the car. Only stayed for 1/2 the day in the beginner group and left.

The driver of the BMW was good, I think the GS just had a little more to give.

:iagree:

At last we find common ground !

Absolutely.

I can only deam of one day growing up to be just like you and over pay for my cars

:rofl::willy::rofl:

First off, I said the Corvette C6 is the best bang for the buck out there in performance. I've owned three of them. Their interiors suck ass. It's a fact. Sorry if I don't sugarcoat it.

Show me where the M3 has not been at the top on reliability in it's segment. I have already agreed with the less than stellar ratings of BMW...IN GENERAL.. due to the HPFP. In addition, I never AT ANY TIME said that the C6 Corvette was unreliable. In fact, the three C6 versioned Vettes I have owned never gave me an ounce of trouble (granted, they were all brand new and I only kept them for 7-12 months each).

All of those companies above "Re-organized" which is precisely what GM and Chrysler should have done instead of the Gov't stepping in, throwing the bond holders out on their ear and lining the Union's pockets. They should have been forced to cut costs and re-organize on their own.

Look at what Ford did recently.

Overpay?:rofl:......yeah, I bought a $76K car barely used for $52K because the guy was moving to Hong Kong and had to move it. I sure overpaid.

Actually, the only car I ever overpaid for was my '07 Z06. Got it for $600 over invoice (was a deal back then before they started giving them away). Had it for six months and sold it for...............alot less than I paid.

Not at all impressive for the price of the car. Listed as slightly above average.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/BMW/2010/

No fan of the bailout. Yet it happened and GM is still making the Corvette.:thumbs:

Maybe it did get to me:(...my apologies for the name calling.

I never had the chance to get my GS on the track. I really would like to have known how it compares to the M3 in all facets at the track. My guess is a slight edge to the GS. The back road spirited driving I did with it,... I loved how flat it was in the corners.

I really wish the Z06 driver in our group was more experienced because I really wanted to see it perform. I wanted to see how close I could TRY to keep up.

No problem on the name calling. Just trash talking.

The M3 was fast, but the GS could pull a little on it. I think the brakes and cornering were pretty equal. I run the experienced group with a lot of old race cars, big buck exotics. You can pass anywere on the track and only rule is don't block or run into someone. I think the brakes on the GS are marginal without better pads and fluid. The handling is fine and like you said, the car doesn't nosedive and stays flat in the corners.
I should have gone with the Z06, but plan was to supercharge the GS anyways.

It's always fun to chase someone faster or run with your friends on the track.

:thumbs:

I knew we could find something to agree on !!

:cheers:

:iagree:

Good post !

:cheers:

Wow. Sorry you took it in the ass on the Z. Looking at all of your posts in this thread, you seem so angry.

What's the deal ?

That's an easy one...he's Vette-less, for now...:D

Did I guess right ALMS21?

All the banter is in good fun. I don't hate other sports cars and yours happens to be very sweet, but "I" just would never personally own any car that wasn't based and built here, period...:cheers:

:flag:

Nah man. Not angry at all. Just a bit more emphatic than most to get my point across. Not the first time someobody has said that. No worries here. Please don't take my "loss" on the Z06 as a sign of any bitterness towards the Vette. It happens sometimes. Still think it is an awesome performer.

Good one:thumbs: Like I said earlier I am not angry at all.

Thanks for the kudos on the car. You are a man of principle with the American cars. Even though I don't share the same opinion, I can certainly appreciate yours. It is all in good fun.

Your avatar of the white ZR1 looks fantastic.

I'm glad we in the U.S. have a wide range of products (including cars) available that are build by companies from other countries. Trade between countries is a good thing.

If Germany decided to buy computer software produced only in their country, it would have a negative impact on U.S. software companies; Germany imports approximately 75% of their computer software from the U.S.

It's the trade imbalance in general that's part of what has this country in a death spiral, not the fact that Germany blesses us with purchasing software from us.

Washington D.C. is so corrupt....wait a minute, I'm getting into a long long story that has no short term solution, but I can certainly think of several long term solutions that would make many people very unhappy (but many more would have big smiles on their faces)...

I digress, back to the topic, where were we?...:flag:

I think that is a great point.

I prefer American built cars. But I also know that without foreign competition, domestic makes would not have improved.

Based on what they built up through the 80's - they needed to improve. And indeed they have.

:yesnod:

:iagree:


I have to agree with this. I find their interiors unattractive and until very recently cheap looking.

About two years ago I rode in the front of 7 series sedan and the seat was painful. The thigh extender leaves two hard ridges under your legs; really uncomfortable. Mercedes and Lexus do that much better and I find the Vette does not need it.

Yes indeed.

:iagree:this^,...says it all!:cheers:

They may have improved, but not enough in my opinion. According to the January 2012 non-truck sales numbers (that is, passenger cars) for the month of January, the top five manufactures, in terms of total sales, were foreign companies.

If U.S. car manufacturers want to cut into the automobile trade deficit with foreign manufacturers, they need to adapt and build cars with the qualities and price point Americans want.

I coudn't disagree more. My '02 M3 looked and felt better than the '11 Grand Sport with 4LT that I sold in September.

The '06 M5 I had was equipped with alcantara headliner, very high grade of leather on the dash and throughout the car. Not cheap looking/feeling in the least. I will agree Benz was/is more "luxurious" looking but that is not what BMW is after. I guess that is why I prefer it....not overly done but of very good quality.

'06 M6 interior

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/...m5interior.jpg

Do you really think the NAV on the Porsche is world class ? You must be kidding.

There are at least five seperate interior considerations at play here: looks, quality of materials, fit and finish, functionality, and personal fit.

In terms of personal fit, everything hinges on how the specific individual is built. Seat adjustability can obviously play a very important role in getting a seat to fit comfortably, but adjustability can only go so far. There are some people who just won't fit comfortably in a seat even within the range of the seat's adjustability. These people will probably label XYZ's seats as "crap" regardless of how good the materials are, how good the seats look, or how high a quality the materials and fit/finish are.

Never ceases to amaze me at how some like to take shots at this great country and even more so when they are incorrect.

You're kidding? American cars are on par if not surpassing almost every foreign automaker in quality.

Buick, Jaguar dethrone Lexus in J.D. Power reliability study - ABC ...
abcnews.go.com › Money
Buick, Jaguar dethrone Lexus in J.D. Power reliability study. ... Buick and Jaguar, two brands not always top of mind in car buyers' perceptions of quality, tied for ...



CNBC Behind The Wheel Blog — LeBeau: Buick Tops Lexus — Yes ...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41870602/Buic...exus_Yes_Lexus

Mar 2, 2011 – Admit it, the headline made you chuckle. You probably thought to yourself, "Yeah right, there is no way Buick could catch the #1 luxury brand in ...

Buick Sales Surpass Lexus, May Become America's Top Luxury ...
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...y-become-ameri...

Mar 7, 2011 – It's not too hard to remember the days when Buick was the butt of jokes, with many suggesting that Buick be killed off during the General Motors ...

Buick Outsold Lexus, Audi and Acura Last Month (The Torque Report)

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...udi_and_a.html
Mar 8, 2011 – This news is great for GM and Buick fans, since Lexus has been the top selling luxury brand in the US since 2000. Last month Buick sold 15807 ...

I'm not taking shots at any country.

And BTW, prople vote with their wallets, not surveys. The following are January 2012 numbers:

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/pag...autosales.html

That looks like an M6, it's not a M5.

In the past a lot of cars lived and survived based on legend. Today there is so much info available now that people are making choices now based on fact. Expensive foreign cars are no longer desireable based on the symbol on their hoods like it used to be. People actually have to live with their cars in the real world now: and if it's crap; they can sit in their living room and let the world know. I love the exotics just like the next guy but it still has to be reliable and somewhat of a good value to me. No hate for foreign cars as I do own 2 including bmw. The vette interior is ok with me as well especially the 4lt package (which I don't have):D

It is indeed an M6. I've corrected my post. In any regard, it's the last model year body styling from 2006. The point was that somebody stated that until just recently BMW interiors were cheap. I'm simply stating they are/were not.

:cheers:hey all,...just got back from the invitation only event that our local p dealer put on to launch the new generation 911,..the 991,...first off,..let me say,..they're must be some really pent-up demand among the 1%'s to at least look at these things!,..there were 300 rsvp's,..500 showed up!,..'course they weren't turned away,..and with free food and champagne,..porsche knows how ta coddle the 1%,...so, now, my impessions of the new one,...bloated,..BIG,...these were all carrera s's,..all pdk's,...and that puppy has got one big ass on her now!,...it's just REALLY big!,...and while i didn't like that,...wife loved it,..so,...subjective, obviously,...can't stand all the badging!,..it's freakin' EVERYWHERE on this new 911,...overdone in the extreme,...hated the "outside the frame" new sun-roof,...again, really ugly,..ant that got the most complaints,...they're gonna fix that from what the dealers were sayin',...cock-pit much more "lux",...very panamera,...buttons everywhere,..but definately more spacious,...i didn't like it so much,...wife again LOVED it!,...back end IS very aston martin looking,..critisism is correct 'bout that!,..just doesn't look 911-ish to me any more,...again,..many complaints 'bout that!,...now,...we all had to put our names in a hat for a test drive,..and mine luckily came up,...so here's that impression,...blisteringly fast!!!,..I MEAN, really fast!,..this was the pdk, with everything on it,..sport chrono pac,..sports exhaust,..everything,...the thing moves, my friends!,..i WON'T be buying it as a pdk,..but can see how many will,...they claim 0-60 in 3.7 secs,..dealers said it's actually 3.5,..and it felt every bit of it!,...feels a little heavy, not such sublime steering feel anymore,..and a little "numb-er" than the previous s,...but that thing is a bullet when ya juice the gas a bit,...i expect the new turbo's to now be in the 2.5 sec. to 60,..and dealers confirmed AT LEAST THAT!,..if not 2.3!,...overall,..not my cup of tea,..other than sheer speed,..felt very bloated and heavy[in spite of them saying it's actually lighter,..], it is the bench mark for all sportscars to measure up to,...i feel the new vette will be up to the task though!,...and equal it in performance at least,...fit and finish were superb, as expected on a now WHOPPING 126,000 dollar vehicle..[yes, ya read that right,...126k for the carrera s!!],..granted this one had every bell and whistle on it,..but that shocked even alot of these 1%'s!,...that's a freakin' lot of bucks now for sort of not the high end 911!,...it's now becoming out of our reach now,..and based on comments i heard from alot of folks there, there was a lot of similiar feelings,...porsche seems to know it's market very well,..but i think they're REALLY pushin' it now!....hope some of you fellow car buffs find this useful,...sort of "insde the bubble" info,..as it were!:cheers:

M5/M6 are up there around $80-100k. Sorry the 3 series does look cheap inside for its price range. You also don't get much bang for your buck for options. German companies are real good at offering options galore for such things as a rear window wiper or folding rear seats. If the BMW didn't have its badge on the front then it would get slammed by critics. And now with some BMWs you MUST see the dealer to change the battery so they can program it right.

The car can be ordered with "designation delete" and there won't be any rear badging.

The sunroof is an option, so those that don't care for the way it looks don't have to order it.

The sunroof is design so that no interior headroom is sacrificed. Unlike previous 911s, there is no difference in headroom between a sunroof optioned car and a non-sunroof optioned car. In the past, the sunroof on the 911 reduced headroom by approx. 1.5 inches.

That's because of the electric power steering.

Actually ...

BMW only has limited options in their offerings. I think when I bought my last m3 in 2004 i had 4 or 5 options - price from absolute base to totally loaded runs about 10k or so ... Like the vettes ...
see here,
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...+jF4uIIH0lrq8=

Now Porsche on the other hand ...
My girlfriend ordered a Cayenne S and had about 3 pages (approx 500 or so) option decisions to make on her order. There is about 30-40k in price difference between the absolute base Cayenne S and a fully loaded one. On the P cars I agree. Not so much with the Bimmers

I drove my M3s for about 150k miles and approx 15 years before I moved to the Vette.
I only had 1 mechanical failure in all that time. a Right front hub bearing went bad and cost me about 300 bucks to fix. Pretty good results from such a crappy car (if you ask some of the prior posts above).

In my 3 years of Corvette use I have had rear axle bearings replaced as the rattle sounded like the rear axle was going to fall off (not alone amongst vette owners with this problem), the glove compartment handle broke off in my hand (seems to happen to many people - ****** plastic mold), and the Nav system has issues recognizing cds.
Overall the vette too, is just a car, but to say the M3 interior is cheap ... well, you must be blind ... Go have a good hard look at your plastic armrest or center console lid for instance (I replaced mine with aftermarket parts from vendors here). Not the case with the Bimmers, any Bimmers.
As for reliability, at least in my case, the BMW was much more reliable than my vette so far.

On a side note,
I test drove a Maserati GrandSport yesterday.
Frankly, it had a great interior, but the car itself kind of sucked. poor turn in with a wierd front wheel squat to initiate the turn, lagging power off the bottom, and the highly touted F1 paddleshift transmission lagged poorly.
Too bad because I had high hopes of getting one, but the power off the bottom was lacking, the interior was too short on leg room for my 6', and about it's only redeeming factor was the exhaust note of the Fcar engine. The power however sucked compared to my lowly LS3 in stock config.

So, point being, there are cars for everyone, and I like my vette fine for now

Then again there are close-minded arse that have spewed much ill-founded dribble in the prior pages, seemingly because they need affirmation, from themselves or others, that their car is best (as if anyone really gives a schtip ...).

Gets kind of old in this neighborhood all the childish crap. Too bad as the vette is a great car and doesn't need the BS to substantiate it's position. just drive it, enjoy it, and get something else if you like, it is your money after all.

Out.

:iagree:

This is for the entire year of 2011. 6 of the top 10 are Domestics.:thumbs:


Top of the Charts: The Best-Selling Vehicles of 2011 - WOT on Motor ...
wot.motortrend.com/top-of-the-charts-the-best-selling-vehicles-of-20...Jan 5, 2012 – We round up the top 10 best-sellers of 2011. The names are familiar, but the pecking order isn't. Read more on 2011's chart-toppers.

Actually BMW's option list is long and you have to get the cold weather package to get a folding rear seat.

Check out edmunds for the 335i, there are around 20 options which can quickly boost the MSRP up to close to $55k or so. Is the 335 worth that much? That is all up to the individual owner. A non M3 though costing $55k?

In 2011, the 3-series was #1 in total sales as compared to the following cars:

#2 Lexus RX
#3 Mercedes-Benz C-Class
#4 Mercedes-Benz E-Class
#5 Infiniti G
#6 Cadillac SRX
#7 Cadillac CTS
#8 BMW 5-Series
#9 Acura MDX
#10 Lexus ES
#11 BMW X5
#12 Mercedes-Benz M-Class
#13 Audi A4
#14 Hyundai Genesis
#15 Acura TL
#16 Acura TSX
#17 Lexus IS
#18 BMW X3
#19 Lincoln MKZ
#20 Cadillac Escalade
#21 Mercedes-Benz GL-Class
#22 Audi Q5
#23 Mercedes-Benz GLK-Class
#24 Lincoln MKX
#25 Volvo S60
#26 Audi A5
#27 Land Rover Range Rover Sport
#28 Acura RDX
#29 Lexus CT200h
#30 Infiniti QX56

Actually, 5 of the top 10 are american

or
According to the page you posted,

1 of the top 7 selling cars are American cars (and it is a Ford F series pickup - been that way for years)

Gotta be careful of statistics, it is easy to make them look how the writer wants.

Like the saying goes, stats don't lie, but liars use stats to make a point

Apparently you didn't read the link I clearly posted earlier.

:iagree: Spot on...

Sir, please remove the rose colored glasses, they are not becoming on you ...

If you take out the Ram it is 5. I have a feeling you would be more then happy to count foreign trucks if they were in the top ten.:crazy:

For calendar year 2011, excluding trucks, seven of the top ten selling cars in the U.S. were imports. The best selling passenger car for 2011 was the Toyota Camry.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/01...-year-end.html

And in terms of the 2011 total auto market share, U.S. manufacturers didn't even garner 50% (they only grabbed 47.1%).

http://i40.tinypic.com/16gy8hf.png

LOL, you're killin' me smalls!

Go take a deep breath, have a cold one, and calm down buddy!

Do you think if the critics had slammed the 3-series, it wouldn't have ended up #1 in the sales list I posted above?

1. Ford F - Series PU 38,493 7.5 38,493 7.5
2. Toyota Camry / Solara 28,295 55.9 28,295 55.9
3. Chevrolet Silverado PU 26,850 -4.7 26,850 -4.7
4. Nissan Altima 22,357 35.9 22,357 35.9
5. Honda Civic 21,883 49.5 21,883 49.5
6. Honda CR-V 18,960 16.0 18,960 16.0
7. Toyota Corolla / Matrix 17,988 -12.6 17,988 -12.6
8. Dodge Ram PU 17,909 46.8 17,909 46.8
9. Ford Escape 17,259 23.5 17,259 23.5
10. Chevrolet Impala 16,009 5.4 16,009 5.4

That makes 5 out of 10, and that is including the Ram, and the F150
again, like I said, it is 1 of the top 7.
How is that dominating exactly??? please explain.

Regarding your little nationalist crack,

I happen to own a Vette, a Ford truck and a Harley

And,
I have 3 Italian motorcycles (Ducatis, 2 are my track bikes, 1 commuter), 2 Asian bikes (Yamaha dirt bike, and a old skewl 2smoker), and a vintage Henderson for good measure.
really would like to get a hold of a old (British) Matchless at some point too - sure hope I don't ruin the country by my purchase ...

So yes, I buy American, but it isn't up to just me to save this country. So I also buy what I want. That is why I got edjamakated so I can work so damned hard and get what I like.
If you feel so strongly (which it seems you do), why don't you go ahead and throw away your (Asian made) television.

Now don't get all butt hurt, it isn't meant to be personal and I don't want you to throw away your tele, but I did mean to emphasize the point.

Still, the stats were yours, I just pointed out the obvious you were not bothering to add to your post.

I believe in the American way, but i am not one to blow smoke, or to throw on my rosy glasses and tell myself everything is alright - especially when that isn't the case

If you want to split hairs then fine. Instead of cars it should be vehicles. It was my poor use of words. So 5 of the top 10 vehicles sold in 2011 were domestics if you do not include the Ram vehicle,

Dude it was a joke. You said rose glasses so I printed in blue. Seriously chill out. No big deal. It's just a forum about vehicles not religion or world peace..:cheers:

Nope, that would be 4 of the top 10 at least according to the above posted chart

This conversation has bored me at this point. back to tinkering on the Henderson and having a cold one.

Out,

For now ...

:cheers:

Love the Stone products, especially Arrogant Bastard and Ruination Ale!

Not sure what chart you are reading but here are 2 with the links provided.

http://wot.motortrend.com/top-of-the...11-153551.html
1. Ford F-Series — 584,917 sales
2. Chevrolet Silverado — 415,130 sales
3. Toyota Camry — 308,510 sales
4. Nissan Altima — 268,981 sales
5. Ford Escape — 254,293
6. Ford Fusion — 248,067 sales
7. Ram 1500/2500/3500 — 244,763
8. Toyota Corolla — 240,259 sales
9. Honda Accord — 235,625 sales
10. Chevrolet Cruze — 231,732 sales




New car sales in October recovered from a summertime lull, fueled by pent-up demand for new models and a better selection of Japanese brand cars following last spring’s devastating earthquake. If the rebound continues, car makers will finish the year with their best sales since 2008.

Unlike in previous years, however, when import-brand vehicles dominated the list of best-selling cars in America, this year has seen a surge in popularity for domestic models. Six of the 10 most popular vehicles in America through October are made by General Motors, Ford Motor or Chrysler Group, compared to just three last year. Tumbling out of the Top 10 are the Honda Civic and CR-V, two perennial favorites whose sales have been hurt by natural disasters in Asia, and the Hyundai Sonata, which was nudged out by more popular vehicles from Ford and GM. Pushing their way into the Top 10 are the Ford Fusion and Escape, and GM’s new compact, the Chevrolet Cruze.



Ram pickup 10. Ram pickup
Spun off from Dodge, Ram pickups stand on their own now.

9. Chevrolet Cruze
Chevy's new small car has strong sales momentum.

8. Toyota Corolla
Corolla is down 11% this year amid tougher small car competition and dealer shortages.

7. Honda Accord
The only Honda model still in the top 10 due to inventory shortages.

Ford Fusion 6. Ford Fusion
Ford's mid-size sedans have led a product revolution at Ford.

5. Ford Escape
Escape sales stayed strong, even with a redesign on the way for 2012.

4. Nissan Altima
Nissan's mid-sized sedan shot up the list as other Japanese makers struggled.

Toyota Camry 3. Toyota Camry
Camry is still the nation's best-selling car, and a redesign is coming for 2012.

2. Chevrolet Silverado pickup
Chevy pickups are overdue for an update, but still selling well.

1. Ford F-150 pickup
Ford's workhorse pickups are the perennial best seller.


http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-best...s-of-2011.html

Unfortunately most people still consider Mopar as an American product. It hasn't been since Daimler, and now Fiat bought Chrysler out...:(

We now have the "Big Two"

The future Viper is an Italian sports car.

I'm thinking they'll wanna charge more for the EYEtalian Viper :lol:

:iagree: Actually, I often slip and still think of Chrysler as a American company. Look at all the controversy over the Super Bowl commercial.

But I'm glad I was able to back up my post with not only 1 but 2 confirmations with links. Personally, I think it is great the 2 domestic car makers have 5 of the top 10 vehicles sold in America. :thumbs:

You have a point.:lol: Maybe they can do like Cadillac did. Paint the body in Italy, and fly it over to America.:crazy:

[QUOTE=PittMD1;1579965580 Or compare a miata to the GS?[/QUOTE]

tahe 2k and put it in the miata suspension take another 6k and put it in the cosworth supercharger and now for 30K you got a miata to take on
he gs hands down the miata for every day dd. th miata would run circles around rhat vette.just not in atraight line.i kmow brcaude had ome.






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Had a few of these huh >>>...:cheers::cheers::cheers::eek:

It seriously gives me pain to read posts like this. Do you have a cat typing along with you? :)

no i have a ambien with me. any better know?

actually, know, it is knot.

:lol:

better now. boy it was a longer ambien night than i thought.

American and domestic are not actually the same thing..

Any brand assembled in North America (US, Mexico, and Canada) with at least 50% North American parts is domestic.. That includes lots of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mazda cars. So Dodge may no longer be American it is domestic.

And while Mexican and Canadian built Fords are still American, not all are domestic. Not sure about current models but a few year back the Canadian built Crown Vic was made with less than 50% North American made parts, officially was considered an import so did not count against Ford's domestic fleet gas mileage requirement.

For the sake of argument most people in the auto world consider Ford & GM domestic car (vehicle for a few members:crazy:) companies.

Almost everyone is aware that many foreign companies build their cars/vehicles here, and that is truly a great thing. This means a consumer who buys certain foreign cars/vehicles can be assured that at least some of the profits from the car/vehicle are invested back into America or her workers.

We can debate this all day long. But I'm sticking with GM & Ford as American car/vehicle companies based right here in America. I would bet a large percentage of Americans would agree with that. :cheers:

CORVETTE! :flag: :flag: :flag: Nuff said!

My feeling is that the GS and Base Vette is more in competition against the Cayman models where as the 911 models were more of a comparison against the Z06 and ZR1.

BREAKING NEWS!!! - We can debate all day long but me and, I'm betting most Americans: 92%, will tell you Chrysler is an AMERICAN car company. Therefore a "large percentage of Americans" disagree with you.