Professional Products, Pro Comp and plain old copies...
 

I know when it comes to parts, especially heads etc, a lot of people say to stay away from the cheaper end of the market and I guess it goes for all things.

Im looking for a 'cheap' vortec style intake and was looking at getting a 2nd hand Edelbrock 2116 but am having difficulty finding a seller who is willing to even talk to an international buyer.

I then started looking at the Professional Products 52007 Cyclone intake at summit. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-52007/ at $146.95 + shipping.

I then looked on ebay for the same product and found other makes using the same or almost the same part #s.
KMJ Performance

ProComp

There were others.
Are any of these any good quality wise? Some say about permanent steel molds to ensure great accuracy and no core shift.

Just wondering about my options. Im not building a high HP monster, just a decent fun machine and wondered if it was worth waiting for a decent used intake or trying one of these.

I do know this...regardless of its origin if Summit sells it they will stand behind it. You may find an identical product on ebay and you may also pay a little less than from Summit but may run into problems if and when you need to return it...that won't happen with Summit.

I hear you on that but what ever I do its going to cost me around $80 to get this in to the UK, then possibly taxes on top of it. If I have to send it back, its going to cost me big time!

I guess if I had one shipped to my friend in CA, he could at least give it the once over to check for any obvious damage and then after that, it will be up to me.

I would rather have a used Edelbrock or Weiand than a copy.

I understand the situation getting parts there...
:cheers:

Ive seen a couple of the edelbrock 2116's on craigslist but I guess people are wary about being scammed.
I had a lead on one in CA but that went cold. One in Saginaw....

Do Weiand make a Vortec intake? I havent checked that out, may offer up some more possibilities.

Yes they do,Real Steel has them for sale at £137.

Just looked, its the 8121 which is the squarebore, Im looking for a spreadbore as I want to keep the qjet for now.

Oh well back to the drawing board then.

After actually looking at the pictures I did notice that that intake is missing the four bolt holes between the intake ports. As much of a penchant as Chevys have for sucking oil up into the intake ports I really think I'd avoid that piece...

Next door neighbor bought a set of new pro comp heads off a company doing business on e-bay.$900.00 complete oval port BBC heads. They come in valve covers won't even fit without him grinding on them to make them fit. No telling what else is wrong quality wise. So i convince him to send them back. He calls the E-bay vendor company they want a $250.00 restocking fee to take them back. What these people are doing is buying the cheap chinese junk could care less if theres a problem they make 25 perecent you send it back.

One of my relatives put his daughter into the salon business, She finds a good price on the internet for some mirrors over at a warehouse in garland texas. They are delivered to her place she makes the mistake of not opening them up looking at them before signing for them. Later we open the boxes three of the four mirrors have smudge marks inbeded into the mirror (chinese mirrors) can't be wiped off. Relative and i load them up haul them back over to the warehouse in his yukon. Get there say there defective show them the imbeded smudge marks. They don't care they want a $250.00 restocking fee. The blood pressure is getting pretty steamed now. Realative has a wife that just works for lawyers he gets ahold of her on his cell phone says ill let you talk to my lawyer. They talk to her on the phone she's now pretending to be a lawyer. They finally took them back still would not do it for less then $35.00 for boxes. So now the loss is $35.00, Gas for the fuel hog, some lost time.

If i lived in europe id pay a hair more up front for a proven edelbrock and no chance in hell buy off e-bay.

Vortec heads don't have bolt hole there, just the two at each corner. Yeah, I know, it's kinda weird, but there it is.


Scott

I've seen many ProProd 52007 & also have one.
52007 is made in China ... BUT ... it meets all requirements of "Form, Fit & Function" ... AND it is wee bit shorter than any aftermarket spreadbore Vortec intake. It is shorter than EB 2116. Although they are quite similar, 52007 is Not a copy of 2116.

From what I can tell, Pro Comp is different kettle of fish.

Some China parts are junk, some are not. It depends primarily on what our American importers contract for.

I've worked on and flown in two Red Chinese fighter-trainers; very sturdy piece!

Do a bit of internet searching on Procomp.... You will get the idea.
Seen some heads, Look like melted down coke cans.
Lots of holes need die grinding just to line up.

I would hate to see you buy it twice.

There is really nothing wrong with buying and selling on EBay. Some people are just too paranoid around here.
I'm eyeballing the Hurricane and Typhoon intakes as well.

I have bought several Professional Products intakes and have 1 right now ready to install, I like the crosswind model.
I will not pay Edelbrock prices just for the sake of paying to fill his summer pool and drain and paint the winter pool!

No way to I put inferior chinese parts on my car just to save 20%! :willy::willy: A new 2116 is what $175.00 from Summit?! You get what you pay for! To me $30 is worth it! :thumbs:

Well some people don't have to or can't manage money like most have to.
I can look up parts in a Summit parts catalog also.
Edelbrock Polished RPM intake #75011= $349.95
Professional Products crosswinds intake polished #52025= $251.95.
Thats $98 that could be used to buy some more goodies.
But some need Edelbrock to tell them what pockets to stick their money in.

I'll buy the Edelbrock. I'll pay the extra $ to buy the product from the company that actually did the research and development and then had their product manufactured in the USA. I don't care if the owner of that company is rich now. Isn't success the the whole point of building a business?

You can save a few dollars if need be, and buy the one from the company that had a china-man reverse engineer the Edelbrock manifold and is now having them built in China.

Just remember, the next job shipped to China may be yours.

:flag:

The Chinese can make quality parts and equipment but they know we won't pay the price for something that actually performs well. So we buy their junk at cut-rate prices.

They are experts at copying anything from a hammer to sophisticated electronic equipment. Everything looks perfect, problem is it doesn't work as well as the copied part and in some cases the parts don't even work at all and the hammer head ends up embedded in your wall.

I bought a $200 bluetooth cell phone ear piece. The best on the market about 5 years ago from Ebay for $50. The packaging, instructions and the ear piece itself where identical to what I saw in the stores, you could not tell the difference.

I sent it back to the manufacturer Jabra because it didn't work. I got it back un-repaired with a note from then saying they did not make the earpiece, they didn't say who did but I have a good idea who made it.

As far as intakes go, it's not what it looks like on the outside, it's what's going on in the inside, they most likely flow like crap. So you could have a set of real nice heads that flow 275cfm by themselves and you bolt on a Lucky Hurricane manifold and you lose %30 of your flow.

I had my AFR227's port matched to a Vic Jr intake by AFR and had the heads flowed with and without the Vic Jr intake. There was a 3% loss with the Vic Jr bolted to the head on the flow bench.

Bottom line don't buy the Chinese junk :canadaflag::flag:

That would be hard to do, I work for the city I live in!
As for the "buy Vics stuff because he did the research", ho hum!
Lets take time and break this down.
Japan makes it
The intake is ordered by an 1"America company" and 2"shipped" over here and unloaded by Americans. 3 trucked to a warehouse. 4 distributed to a parts store. 5 Sells rep sells it over the phone. 6 UPs delivers it.
Thats 6 Americans to 1 Japanese involved in the intake, not to mention gas and paper products used to box, ship, fuel, and handling.
That cheaper intake put several Americans to work that day I ordered it verses deciding not buying an Edelbrock because its grossly over priced due to name brand loyalty.
I will not buy a new Edelbrock anything.
I will pickup a used Edelbrock intake clean it up and sell for a nice profit from brand loyalty.

I want vic to drive the finest of mercedes, couple of rolls royce, 10 homes. Or if he does not have atleast this much now improve to this level or higher.

I bet the taxation and wages are redicules in california. Why he does not simply leave california and manufacture in another state is beyond me.

Id like to see the amount he pays in taxes in california with four business locations in Cal. His Cal. labor cost compaired to a chinese worker.

Lets see if he were in texas both vic and his employes would have no state income tax to pay. California has a state capital gains tax texas does not have along with the normal federal capital gains to pay. His wages again in california have to be high compaired to a lot of other states. I think he should pack up move out of california like business have been doing for yrs to other states or other countries. No one wants to pay for american labor costs in his parts. What he should do is go to china set up shop i'm sure he could make more overall profit that way.

First of all, Japan isnt involved here. China is.
Second, if you compare the non-polished versions of those same intakes you mentioned, the price is almost identical.
When there is no more Edelbrock you wont buy the Chinese version either.
ProComp only has it to sale because they copied it from an Edelbrock original.
Once the American performace parts innovators are gone, so are your options.

If more Mfg jobs go to China we will not have tax payers to pay taxes to keep city employees or their benefits.

Hey guys, I really didnt mean this thread to start in to a pissing match. I know we all have our views about quality issues.

I guess, I really would like the edelbrock intake but for me cost is the problem.
If someone would have it delivered to their house then drop it of at the post office to ship to me, thats the way I would go.

I posted a wanted ad on the forum, had a couple of offers then both people pulled out.
Found a couple of items on craigslist but sellers didnt want to know an international bidder.
Even asked in the regional sections for some help.

Happy to help out Americans by buying American if someone is happy to help me out. More than happy to pay gas money to the post office and buy you a beer for filling out the customs form ( name, address, conyents etc )
:flag:

$36 difference.
And I want the polished version.
My old 77 ran pretty good with the cheap Chinese version and the money saved bought me all kinds of other goodies!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/pict...ictureid=89939

I actually own, have used and have installed EDELBROCK, PROCOMP and PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT intake manifolds in the engines I have built. The two last brands are more and less identical, but the box it is transported in is different. From what I have experienced, the quality of the EDELBROCK is NOT superior to the other brands and costs much more. They are all cheap mass produced items and are absolutely no expensive racing parts, regardless if they are made in China or in the USA. All three brands can offer more than identical product lines for most applications and performance.
Here is an EDELBROCK 27164 (Summit sells for $255.95), which I use in a 385CI SBC:

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...4012007064.jpg

This is a EPS Vortec with 8 bolts installation:

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...4012007065.jpg

Two runners on one side had some very bad moulds and had to be port matched to fit. The fix doesn’t take much time, however this is what you have to accept when you buy such mass produced parts regardless of origin.

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/DSC00151.jpg

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/DSC00156.jpg

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...e/DSC00160.jpg

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...Picture058.jpg

Arne

Manifold issues
 

Let's clear the air on a few things. The Edelbrock Performer manifold is a direct copy of a G.M. factory high performance manifold offered back in the '60's. I think it might have been a Z-28 manifold. Anyway, I have one of them and have compared it point to point to an Edelbrock and they are almost identical.

Then Professional Products started producing a version of this manifold called the Cyclone. Did they copy the G.M. manifold like Edelbrock or did they copy the Edelbrock? Who knows. Then after Professional Products invested a significant amount of money in tooling and also in educating the Chinese factory on how to make manifolds, even sending a polishing expert there for a month to teach them how to polish manifolds, the factory got greedy and started selling the manifolds to ProComp. Who never invested one dime in tooling or anything else. They just ripped off Professional Products. Don't try to ask anybody at ProComp any kind of tech question however.

The gm stuff isnt a direct port match either

Get yourself an Edelbrock i will pay more all day long to keep money in America where it belongs. KNow a few that swear their Chinese pieces are the best they wouldnt know a good part from a bad one all they know is they bought it and its cheap

Even the new "good brand" ir weiand for example is alloverseas now. They weight next to notihing as theres hardly any metal in them.

Id hate to put one on only to find the dist. pad wasnt the right height/straight or some stupid thing like that. Summit does have good return policy I wlll say just returned wheels and tires that were bad they sent a call tag out so shipping cost me notihign are even reimbursing me mount/balace charges I had. Cant complain.

It was over $100 difference between let's say an edelbrock or dart branded intake vs the pro comp polished intake I bought... car craft and hot rod use these intakes all the time in budget builds as they found they perform just as well.... I'd rather buy a Chinese product knowing its a Chinese product that pay twice as much for big name brand stuff which is the same Chinese products rebranded half the time... (examples are Timken,auto lite frame Xerox Levis magnavox Phillips craftsman general motors and the list goes on)
I know that's not the case with most of edelbrock products Except things like the Weber/carter /edelbrok knock off carbs where they even still have the Weber markings on them (if those aren't knockoffs being branded as edelbrock I don't know what is).
I have a performer on there now that's coming off for the polished intake...to go with my elebrock/ carter/Weber? Carb. figure I already have an eagle crank which is a Chinese product (almost all including the new GM ones are) and many here have no issues with crate engines that are riddled with Mexican and Chinese components....
As far as knockoffs... I was guilty of that the moment I mixed tyco blocks with my legos when I was 5 and repeated the crime when I bought the store brand products at the grocery store.... look at the aftermarket heads and blocks... they are all knock offs.. I lot of people need to get off their horses... the word economy has changed.... I used to hear it from my buddy who works at GM all the time, till I informed him that his daily driver he bought he bought with his company discount (Chevy aveo) was actually a Korean made deawoo... marketing has become a tool to sell products almost all the big companies have changed and sold out to global marketing and manufacturing at one level or another...eventually that will be a good thing. Right now we reap what we let the politicians and unions sow.
Without competition you could bet edelbrock would charge $500 for that $300 intake. We could be saving you edelbrock guys a bundle...
What about all the Holley knockoff carbs out there?
Most of us are on a budget and have been forced to buy replacement parts and restoration parts... much of that comes from overseas... If I were rich maybe I'd do things differently.... then again I'd have a few cars in the garage... and not just American ones.
Just my 2 cents

This is off topic but related.... I had to do work at the tonawanda GM plant last year and when I pulled up to the gate the guard told me to back up to the post before the guard shack and ignored me... when I went inside to ask why he told me he couldn't let that non union POS into the plant... ( my company supplied car is a US made Camry) when I told him I had a dodge at home I could go exchange but it was made in Mexico he stated it doesn't matter were its made or who makes it as long as its a UAW product.... I ended up coming back with my corvette instead and the guy was super nice and even taking pics.... I still couldn't help thinking how ignorant he was. especially since camrys and Chevy/Geo prisms were once made in the same factory in California.... they even sold chevy cavaliers as Toyota's in japan.... I should have told him how the machines in the plant I was going to fix were made by non union people in china mylasia and Singapore.....

Made in China parts is a little something called market competition. And when two producers within a market compete, the consumer wins.


That's Econ 101, gents. Get over it.

An interesting point, but one that you will probably have a tough time selling to this audience, friend. :yesnod:

Chinese aluminm is not as good as eldebrocks read about kmj on the web

had a profressional products intake ,the ports where junk.I had to use alot of expoxy to get them close to matching the heads.it took 1 hr to file fit my elderbrock air gap ,to match the head ports.saw a dyno comparison of dual plane intakes , the air gap did a little better.the chinese stuff is not engineered ,just a copy of the good stuff.

Everytime I buy a Chinese product I get stung. I try to buy local , then Canadian ,then American. Why are you guys whining about Vic? So he's rich. He's supporting the American economy ! He has to buy a house and everything that goes with it. So does everyone of his employees. They all pay taxes. Buy Chinese and support the Chinese communist government. To save $30 you'll support a communist government? By law I think EVERYTHING made in China should say "made in the Communist Republic of China". Everyone would give a second thought about where their money and their jobs were going. If you can't affort an extra $30 for your intake to support American jobs , then you shouldn't be buying that product until you can !




:salute:

How big of a hurry are you in? I ship engines and blocks to London a few times a year, I'm sure by contact over there wouldn't mind an intake being dropped into one of the crates...plus it'll put you in touch with one of the best engine shops in England.

err..
1. this post is 2 years old...hope he has an intake by now :D

2. I am not sure why people seem to think that buying American means better quality, in my experience, the majority of the time, it doesn't guarantee better products.

A lot of parts that we "think" are American are actually manufactured outside of the US, and just assembled here (I can name at least 3 "US" wheel companies that cast and do the intial machine work on wheels in China, then ship here for assembly)

And anyone that tells me they can tell the HP difference on a street small block between a chinese intake and a US one...is err...smoking something!

Oreilly sells Edelbrock components. So lets say that....Oreilly buys X amount of Edelbrock intake manifolds. So, intake is ordered by 1 "Oreilly" company, and 2"shipped" from (lets say) Texas to California and unloaded by Americans in California. In CA it is 3 "trucked" to an Oreilly warehouse. 4 "distributed. You order it online at oreillyauto.com, and 6 ups delivers it. Oh, and the initial cost goes to an American company, which hires real life Americans to make and sell their products? Hmmm..that's 7 to your 6.

-Damon :flag:

Thank you Tim. I hate when people come on here and say you get what you pay for. A friend has Pro Comp heads straight from E Bay and have had no problems. If I can get them I buy Jegs or Summit parts and save some cash. I never had a problem with any of their stuff. And I have bought parts from E Bay and never had any problems also. I also like the people that chime in here saying something is junk and they never used it, just heard third party that it was no good.

But then I have bought reproduction parts from big name companies that don´t fit. I guess I didn´t get what I paid for.

Why don´t you look around your house and tell me how much chinese junk you have in there. And if you say none you are lying.

I have no problem with my Edelbrock tall valve covers . They fit my pro comp heads perfect.. Absolutly no issues with my pro-comp heads,they fit perfect..No issues with my Edelbrock air-gap fitting to the heads.. Attachment 47727340


:salute:[/QUOTE]

there is no real way to not have chinese, japanese, taiwanese or any other foreign products in your house, our "leaders" have chased industry off shore with taxing them to death!

Yeah just about everything is made there but whenever I can I want to do my part to support jobs HERE. For me its about doing my part thats all:salute:

Noone has to but dont bitch abou the economy or how everything you buy is junk. More you buy the less choices you have YOUR fault.

i have no issue with pro-comp etc get a die grinder and tidy it up a bit.
(which i do with any brand). i do have an issue with ( california ) products, they have done soo much for the car hobby . the emissions regulations that start there and move across the country , the environmental regulations that do nothing but put money into politicians campaigns. the state taxes passed on to the consumer. no , i have less issue with the chinese than some do. i won't however bash Vic Edelbrock, he makes a good product and has done much for the industry and he deserves what he has. his father he and his daughters worked hard to get what they have. i only wish s.e.m.a would have held a harder line against state and federal regulation than to just appease.:D

Made in China products is not what has, or is truly hurting the American economy. What's killing us is the fact that there is less and less competition within the various facets of the market. Something like 85% of all industry in this country is owned and controlled by less than 1% of the population. This means that the so called competition that is so vital for a healthy, "free" market, is really just staged, subsidiary companies all owned by the same parent. Couple that to the fact that these days, CEOs are gents that did NOT start low and work their way up, but have their jobs more by virtue of birth rather than true ability, which cuts their attachment to the companies they lead, which tends to lead them to make decisions that value short term gains at the expense of long term viability, all in the name of getting the share price just a littler higher...and if the company and its many lower employees suffer for it? Whatever. The CEO just made themself and the board a couple million more, so who cares about the company, right?

So, yeah. I'll buy from the actual competition, overseas. Sue me.

we have a winner!
Look at home paints for example.... one company ones like 10 competing brands.... its like a game of monopoly only were getting towards the end of the game when there's only a couple players left.
I've seen this in the industry I've worked it for years.... that and one brand selling the competitors product rebranded as their own.... Example Epson /Seiko printers sold as HP printers Xerox selling Samsung ,Fuji and Kip products under their own name... Its just a marketing game to buy older highly respected names and close the factories and exploit the name to make as much as possible while burning it to the ground then buying another company to dismantle.. sad part is most of these crooks are in that "1% " of AMERICANS..... more power to the Chinese for selling the stuff direct.... at least this way the problem becomes more exposed and more people are enlightened....

Personally, I don't care who buys what where. Our own government borrows money from communist China and when we can't pay it back, they will come calling. I do have an issue with some of their products, such as sheet rock with lead in it, coming into our country. My daughter and son in law built a house 5 years ago and just today, had to buy their 3rd air conditioner because of the lead. All of the wiring in the circuit breaker box is black. Its going to cost upwards of 100,000.00 to have all of the sheet rock replaced and pack their belongings and move for 6 months while all of this is done. Our government doesn't give a damn as long as China keeps writing the USA a check.

They would put people in jail if th drywall were made in this country

Truth is no one is without blame its just the way things are... we send our lead and mercury to third world countries in giant containers so little kids can sort through it and peasents can melt it down with no safety equipment..we send our old ships to India.to be ran aground and cut up on a beach...I read recently that the US government has even recently been caught selling the ships to a dummy company to get around proper disposal costs by having them disposed of in this way by barefoot workers in deplorable conditions....everything is dumped in the water or on the beach.
And we were no saints to china when Britain and the US sold them opiates basically crippling their whole country almost a century ago.