Originally Posted by whatcop? (Post 1577956661)

I noticed that too but if you watch again he is just holding speed and not accelerating. I think GM told him to hold it because he was going to beat the ZR1 and that would be a big no no when it comes to pushing sales of the ZR1.

Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners (Post 1577956699)

First let me preface this by saying that this is amazing for corvette and the time is incredible.

The ZR1 is only 3 seconds faster than the Z06 on a mid 7 minute track?

Come on! The ZR1 should be much faster than the Z06 over such a long track.

What it goes to show is that these track times are meaningless for comparison.

Driver and track conditions really make a huge difference over such a long track.

I'd love to see actual track data to compare apex speeds of both cars. They SHOULD be identical however I'm guessing the Z06 averaged a higher apex speed than the ZR1 to achieve such a close time to the ZR1.

Originally Posted by nhpln (Post 1577956736)

The 5th gear 0.74 ratio on the Z06 kills acceleration. Anybody who's done a mile+ acceleration run knows this. Also, there's an obvious incline on the second half of the straight.

Originally Posted by blackvetterzo6 (Post 1577956955)

20 seconds is a big difference. That sounds kinda crazy to me. I know the tires are awesome and all, but even with suspension upgrades and tires that's still an awful lot of time. Just count to 20 and it makes you think " there's no way that could be right" just sayin :D

Originally Posted by blackvetterzo6 (Post 1577956955)

20 seconds is a big difference. That sounds kinda crazy to me. I know the tires are awesome and all, but even with suspension upgrades and tires that's still an awful lot of time. Just count to 20 and it makes you think " there's no way that could be right" just sayin :D

Originally Posted by Keith@VetteFinders (Post 1577956348)

How's that for fast! The Z06's time was better than the 2009 Corvette ZR1's 7:26.4 lap and comes within 3 seconds of the 2012 Corvette ZR1's lap of 7:19.63. And were talking about a car that costs under $100,000!

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2011/...z06nurburgring

Here is GM's Press Release for the 2012 Corvette Z06 Nurburgring run:

Corvette Z06 Establishes Performance Benchmark
New content enables increased performance at Germany’s famed testing ground

DETROIT – Corvette engineers provided another exclusive peek inside the extensive testing that is instrumental in creating one of the world’s highest performing cars. During Corvette’s recent return to the world’s most-demanding testing ground – Germany’s famed Nurburgring — the Z06 model, as detailed on video recorded a lap time of 7:22.68.

The Z06 is the lightest and most balanced Corvette model, positioned below the range-topping ZR1 supercar model. The 2012 Corvette Z06 model shown includes the Z07 chassis package, featuring new optional Michelin® Pilot® Sport Cup Zero Pressure tires, Brembo carbon ceramic brakes, Performance Traction Management and Magnetic Selective Ride Control, as well as carbon fiber components (hood, front splitter and rockers) and aerodynamic improvements. All of those features are regular production options for the 2012 Corvette Z06, and substantial enablers for the car’s elevated performance level.

The lap time is 20 seconds faster than the previous-best Z06 lap time, recorded in 2005, which was recorded from a standing start rather than the generally-accepted rolling start technique now used. The Z06 lap time is only 3 seconds behind the fastest Corvette lap time ever, the 2012 Corvette ZR1.

While lap times at the Nurburgring’s Nordschliefe (”north loop”) are unofficial, these times are a frequent, if informal, benchmark for some of the world’s highest performing cars. The recent Corvette Z06 performance there is notable in that few, if any, production models in the sub-$100,000 range have recorded such a strong lap time.

“There’s a lot of legend and speculation about Nurburgring lap times, so we wanted to provide sports car fans with a video look inside one complete lap in the new Z06,” said Tadge Juechter, Corvette vehicle line director and chief engineer. “This is just one of a multitude of ways we test, but there’s nothing like the Nurburgring in terms of severity, speed and notoriety around the world. In this particular test in Germany, we were validating new content for 2012, doing many days’ worth of tuning and development work. As a small part of that effort, we had a brief opportunity for Jim Mero to record lap times with a clear track. We ran three of those complete and continuous laps, two in the ZR1 and one in the Z06, captured by on-board videos.”

Measuring 12.9 miles (20.8 km) and including some 154 turns, the Nurburgring’s Nordschleife is widely considered the world’s most-demanding course. The test car was driven by Corvette engineer Jim Mero and was a full production model with no performance modifications.

Corvette’s improved performance for 2012 begins with the new, optional Michelin® Pilot® Sport Cup Zero Pressure tires, which are available on the two highest-performing models, the lightweight, 505-hp (377 kW) Z06 and the maximum-performance, 638-hp (476 kW) supercharged ZR1. They are competition-oriented tires, optimized for warm, dry conditions to increase cornering and handling capability.

When combined with the Corvette’s exclusive Performance Traction Management (PTM) technology – which manages torque delivery for maximum performance – the tires set new benchmarks for Corvette performance. Engineers estimate an 8-percent gain in maximum lateral acceleration, to more than 1.1g, and improved braking distance.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/image.../062311_15.jpg

Originally Posted by HyperX (Post 1577957146)

This is fantastic!! I wonder if the Zr1 people are a bit disappointed that the difference is now 3 seconds.

Originally Posted by Silver05GTO (Post 1577957234)

Doubt it, the ZR1 still has the top spot.

Now the last one would be IMO the most interesting....how far behind is the Grand Sport from the 2 Z cars??

GM has not tested a GS at all at the Ring.

Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners (Post 1577956699)

First let me preface this by saying that this is amazing for corvette and the time is incredible.

The ZR1 is only 3 seconds faster than the Z06 on a mid 7 minute track?

Come on! The ZR1 should be much faster than the Z06 over such a long track.

What it goes to show is that these track times are meaningless for comparison.

Driver and track conditions really make a huge difference over such a long track.

I'd love to see actual track data to compare apex speeds of both cars. They SHOULD be identical however I'm guessing the Z06 averaged a higher apex speed than the ZR1 to achieve such a close time to the ZR1.

Originally Posted by whatcop? (Post 1577956661)

I noticed that too but if you watch again he is just holding speed and not accelerating. I think GM told him to hold it because he was going to beat the ZR1 and that would be a big no no when it comes to pushing sales of the ZR1.

Originally Posted by Silver05GTO (Post 1577956765)

Not gonna get all into it here but facts are the Z06 is a bit lighter then the ZR1 and also suffers less from heatsoak. The times are legit, you can't fake it unless your saying GM is purposely sandbagging the ZR1

Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners (Post 1577957588)

Both these cars were on the same tire, driven by the same driver I think. The weight couldn't have been more than 100lb's difference?

Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners (Post 1577957588)

What I'm saying here is that the ZR1 should be more than just 3 seconds faster than the Z06. It should be 10+ seconds, probably 20+ considering 100hp+ over such a long track.

Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners (Post 1577957588)

I'm not suggesting that at all.

I've been road racing via HPDE's for 3 years or so. It's not much but I've learned a lot about how slight differences in cars equate to corner speeds, straights, etc.. and overall lap times.

Both these cars were on the same tire, driven by the same driver I think. The weight couldn't have been more than 100lb's difference?

I'm assuming their suspension was almost identical.

The above facts suggest to me that their apex speeds should be identical as corner grip isn't determined by horsepower, its determined by tires, suspension and weight.

With the assumption that these cars corner the same, the ZR1 has over 100 more hp? Look at the speeds on the straights in the ZR1 vs the Z06. Those MPH differences are HUGE and would make up a few seconds on every semi-straight over the Z06.

The ring is packed with mini straights, soft bends that are flat out, and long straights where the added HP of the ZR1 should really pull away from the Z06.

Now this is all assuming they can apex at the same speeds.

If someone had the patience the data could be extracted from the videos, but that would take quite some time.

What I'm saying here is that the ZR1 should be more than just 3 seconds faster than the Z06. It should be 10+ seconds, probably 20+ considering 100hp+ over such a long track.

But, because in this case there is only a 3 second difference between what I assume are cars that can corner identically with the only major difference being over 100hp, the lap times cannot be compared as the end all be all between two separate cars driven on two separate days.

The relationship between the times of the two cars just doesn't equate as I would expect it.

Now, again let me say I am not doubting the times at all and think its amazing the Z06 ran those #'s which I believe. That is flying!