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Originally Posted by Frizlefrak
(Post 1577950539)
:iagree: Ya know....THAT would be cool....and it would look like an original smoked top. The ideas for this car are limitless. :yesnod:
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Absolutely Amazing!!! :cheers:
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Lot of interesting ideas....
Thanks Guys! MO |
So how much did the conversion cost?
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Hey Jeff,
Not counting "labor" nor the car ( it's paid for) I'm into it for about $12,000 but there are things I purchased that were high performance such as the controller which alone was $6,000 Generally a conversion will run about $8,000 Mo |
Originally Posted by mgroshong
(Post 1577932849)
We need you tube videos stat!!!
walk around: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwERrQGHFss drive passes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCu66M-tJM I have a cruising one to come... Enjoy MO |
Simply amazing....This setup actually LOOKS like it belongs under the hood. :thumbs:
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Very cool video's MO .... Could this setup do a 50-75 mile round trip commute? I'm thinking actually the perfect donor car would be my 97 3.8 camaro since I commute every day to San Bernardino for work and out to Moreno Valley to get my son 2 times a week.
I believe my Camaro has room for more batteries then your vette being I have the spare tire well in the trunk that could probably hold an additional 6-8 batteries as well, granted rear spring changes might be needed for the additional weight in back. The back seats are never used so addional battery could be put there. how many batteries would you say it would take to make this car actually do the daily commute it currently does? I think I could recharge at work if I asked. Does you insurance change at all being it's an electric vette? What is the range difference driving with the lights on? How far can it go on a full charge? How does it do in rain driving conditions? How does it do at sustained freeway speeds? How many hours to get a full charge? Have you considered a small gas/diesel generator for extended range? What is involved in the EV sign off? is a automatic harder on battery range then the manual? Mine is a 4l60e with 3.42 gears I assume the 6 bangers came with a 5 speed in my era of camaro, I'm curious though how the 4l60e would even do without inputs lost in the conversion or would a 700r4 be the replacement? How would you say a 100hp motor like your would compare to my 200hp v-6 in say driving. No aggresive driving just grocery getting type driving. |
I really enjoyed reading about the conversion, the photos and the videos.:thumbs:
Awesome job. Excellent craftsmanship. :cheers::cheers: Keep us posted on updates. |
Hi Jeff,
how many batteries would you say it would take to make this car actually do the daily commute it currently does? I think I could recharge at work if I asked. Jeff, what i would probably suggest would be to run 12 batteries (my batteries are only 50Ah I would suggest for that kind of distance probably in the range of 110Ah or like a group 31 or run 24 in parallel. You canPM me we can probably go into this in greater detail. Or since you are close come by and we can discuss in greater detail. Obviously for range Lithiums would be the way but you are talking at least 10K in batteries vs 1500 -2000 for lead Does you insurance change at all being it's an electric vette? No Not at all What is the range difference driving with the lights on? Lights are insignificant what sucks my batteries is the electric power sterring it draws a continuous 25 amps How far can it go on a full charge? If you are speaking of my car at about 55 mph I'm good for about 20 miles ( this is dependent on batteries and the type of car) How does it do in rain driving conditions? People drive in all kinds of weather including snow, it just means you need to seal up components under the hood so that you don't get some of the components wet. ( I chose not to do that) How does it do at sustained freeway speeds? It will hold sustained speeds well as long as you have juice the higher rpms cool the motor and at higher rpm's you are drawing less current so it's a win -win... How many hours to get a full charge?Depends on the charger and how deep the batteries are discharged, ( i have a small onboard 120V charger that takesa bout 4 hours) if you are able to charge at work you would be probably fully charged with a full work day Have you considered a small gas/diesel generator for extended range? People do that, they are called "pushers" I could see getting a car to an extended place with one, but for everyday I think "realistically" if you have to rely on a pusher, then it's best to stay with what you have... What is involved in the EV sign off?I performed the conversion, made an appointment with the smog referee, they signed it off, went to DMV and they changed the registration to "E" which now exempts me from Smog as a BEV is a automatic harder on battery range then the manual?I ran my 4L60E for almost a year with no problems, it "eats" a little more juice only in that you have to Idle the motor ( ~ 300 rpm) to keep the fluid pressure up. I just used the stock ECM to handle the shifts etc but I generally ran the trans in second gear ( I have a 3.07) The automatic is a little heavier and also will run cooler since it no longer has the engine heat transfer Mine is a 4l60e with 3.42 gears I assume the 6 bangers came with a 5 speed in my era of camaro, I'm curious though how the 4l60e would even do without inputs lost in the conversion or would a 700r4 be the replacement?As I mentioned you can keep what you have, I just "ganged" the TPS with the "pot box" ( which is essentially the same thing) since the ECM used the throttle and RPM / speed for shifting and ABS (all of that stays in tact). The Tach can be substituted with a 4 pole magnet at the end of the motor shaft with the ECM the tach will still work with the stock guages... How would you say a 100hp motor like your would compare to my 200hp v-6 in say driving. No aggresive driving just grocery getting type driving. Personally I would say it would suit you fine, there are guys with S-10's laden down with batteries running the same 100 HP motor that I'm running and a Curtis controller that is about 275 Amps average... They may lack a little horsepower but they make good low end torque which makes up for the lack of HP. There are some hills that you will prbably need to deal with in your area, so a manual in a donor car might help with the hills as most auotmatics are programmed to shift out of 1st at about 35 mph which would be right about where the motor would like it, going up a hill Hope this helps! MO |
Originally Posted by deerra
(Post 1577982097)
I really enjoyed reading about the conversion, the photos and the videos.:thumbs:
Awesome job. Excellent craftsmanship. :cheers::cheers: Keep us posted on updates. Mo |
Add my admiration to all the other kudos you have recieved. Heck, I took longer replacing the carpet in my vette than you spent on your initial build! :ack:
I admire your work!:thumbs: |
I can understand just saying "F-it" to the man so you don't have to smog test your vette anymore, but I think I would do a different car if I set out to buy one rather than convert something I have already. But, oh, the choices of picking up a 1980-something car for nothing because it can't pass smog anymore...
for me, i guess I would have to be able to steal juice at work for the thing to be really economical. Since CA pays about 25 cents a KWh, how much has plugging in raised up your electric bill every month? How much has your gas bill gone down? Is this a labor of love and should I stop asking such questions? Do they make 100 hp AC motors light enough yet? Typically they would be about 900 lbs for the average 100hp one. We make ac drives- I could probably adapt some leftover stuff if there is some kind of traction motor that would work in a car. |
Originally Posted by mike100
(Post 1577987057)
I can understand just saying "F-it" to the man so you don't have to smog test your vette anymore, but I think I would do a different car if I set out to buy one rather than convert something I have already. But, oh, the choices of picking up a 1980-something car for nothing because it can't pass smog anymore...
for me, i guess I would have to be able to steal juice at work for the thing to be really economical. Since CA pays about 25 cents a KWh, how much has plugging in raised up your electric bill every month? How much has your gas bill gone down? Is this a labor of love and should I stop asking such questions? Do they make 100 hp AC motors light enough yet? Typically they would be about 900 lbs for the average 100hp one. We make ac drives- I could probably adapt some leftover stuff if there is some kind of traction motor that would work in a car. Everyones priorities are different. LOL I do agree that there are better choices for a conversion car / truck... I agree Electric may not be for everyone, I mainly did it to be different... I really like this car , so yes it is a "labor of love" and a blast to drive. It costs about $1.69 to charge the car, so really it is insignificant in terms of electricity... I drive it around town and my other cars for when i have to go longer distances... I went with DC for the cost, as you suggested the AC motors are heavier and require higher voltages ( than most DC setups)... My 100HP DC motor weighs 173 pounds. But yes I would think you could adapt an AC system for a donor car of your choice... MO |
Originally Posted by Bob M
(Post 1577984322)
Add my admiration to all the other kudos you have recieved. Heck, I took longer replacing the carpet in my vette than you spent on your initial build! :ack:
I admire your work!:thumbs: MO |
Yeah, not sure what to say that hasn't been said. I am impressed with your dedication to the engineering, research and hard work to get this done. I'm blown away by the attention to detail. That install is so super clean it looks like your 10th conversion. :thumbs:
It would be fun as hell to do a "pusher"/tire trailer, show up at an autox, bolt on some slicks and romp through the course without a sound. If you don't mind my asking, what do you do for a living? Did you have a background that helped accelerate this project? I ask because I want to build an electric go cart for the kids and while I'm mechanically sound, it's all the rest of the engineering (physical and electrical) that makes me hesitant. |
Steve,
Again thank you the compliments are overwhelming :) Yes even locally going through parking lots at the malls freak out people. I had to have the rear tire fixed at a local Goodyear Shop and I even drew a crowd there LOL The car actually handles pretty good I'm only about 180 pound heavier on the front, only due to 8 batteries in the front and 10 in the rear. I have kiced around a pusher to get me to car shows and meets, i just haven't "got there yet"... I do Virtual Reality for a living, I help design and sell projection systems for the military, car design , medical, and so forth wher you wear the 3D glasses, a nother group in our company does Digital Cinema. My father was a mechanic and I am a former Marine and was in electronics, so obviously the combination of the two certainly helped with this project... As I mentioned in the past aside from the off the shelf parts and a little machine work I did all the mechanical and electrical wiring on the car. If you can read schematics and have a basic understanding of DC, you should be in good shape... ;) Certainly anyone feel free to PM i you have questions or off the wall questions... I will certainly try to share what I can ... Regards, MO |
Pretty cool stuff!! :thumbs:
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Thanks!
MO |
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Thanks 86!
MO |
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
(Post 1577976727)
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Originally Posted by shakedown067
(Post 1578017844)
That was fantastic! So freakin' cool. :cheers: I've never wanted an electric car so bad...but I'll have to stick with gas for now.
Thank you ! Actually I have about 4 press releases just released Monday as well, I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post those links... All very positive press. MO |
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
(Post 1578018075)
Thank you !
Actually I have about 4 press releases just released Monday as well, I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post those links... All very positive press. MO |
I have always been interested in electric powered vehicles. I have been following your build for some time. I started a little lower on the totem pole and built a electric mountain bike. I ordered a 700 watt "Hub" motor and 36v controller. It came with controls. I built a battery rack for 3 12v 3.3 AH lead acid batteries and wired it up. It will go 16 mph without pedaling and will go 20 miles or so (mileage will vary as you know). If you hit the throttle, with no one on it, it will smoke the front tire. I have a feeling a car build is in my future....as for the go cart guy, you should look into some of the bicycle hub motors you can get online. Way to go Mo...I love your car!
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/dec10015.jpg http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/dec10014.jpg |
Originally Posted by powerpigz-51
(Post 1578019111)
I have always been interested in electric powered vehicles. I have been following your build for some time. I started a little lower on the totem pole and built a electric mountain bike. I ordered a 700 watt "Hub" motor and 36v controller. It came with controls. I built a battery rack for 3 12v 3.3 AH lead acid batteries and wired it up. It will go 16 mph without pedaling and will go 20 miles or so (mileage will vary as you know). If you hit the throttle, with no one on it, it will smoke the front tire. I have a feeling a car build is in my future....as for the go cart guy, you should look into some of the bicycle hub motors you can get online. Way to go Mo...I love your car!
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/dec10015.jpg http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/dec10014.jpg MO |
Unbelievable follow through, attention to detail and just plain balls to attempt this and complete with success.
Congrats, great youtube videos of it too. |
Originally Posted by powerpigz-51
(Post 1578019111)
I have always been interested in electric powered vehicles. I have been following your build for some time. I started a little lower on the totem pole and built a electric mountain bike.
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Not exactly sure on the charge time Friz....anytime I am not riding it, it is on the charger, as keeping it topped off really helps the battery life. I don't think it takes much longer than charging a car battery. I built it 3 years ago and it cost about 375 for the kit, and 100 for the batteries. The place I got everything, Ampedbikes.com, is now selling a lithium battery pack. My Bike is heavy....the motor is 26 pounds and the batteries are 36 pounds. I think the Lith pack weighs 9. They sell hubmotors for the front or rear...it would be fun to run both through one controller. Or make a 4 wheel buggy with a motor on each wheel. I think the future of electric powered vehicles will be scaled down from what we are used to in the cars we drive now, 1-2 passenger....lightness in vehicle and batteries are key to extended range. I have one extreme, Mo has the other. Did you guys know Edison made batteries that do not use lead or acid and last forever? (iron phosphate?) Jay Leno has them in his 1910 Baker electric and they are 100 years old. Some lead battery company holds the patents on them. Go figure.
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This has been a great thread Mo,thanks for taking the time to share so much information. If you have any more pictures or videos in the future feel free to share them because I know there others like me that find this very interesting. I know it's been said may times already but I want to say terrific job on a very cool project. :cheers:
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Originally Posted by mrmtrtrnd
(Post 1578025761)
This has been a great thread Mo,thanks for taking the time to share so much information. If you have any more pictures or videos in the future feel free to share them because I know there others like me that find this very interesting. I know it's been said may times already but I want to say terrific job on a very cool project. :cheers:
The batteries are about broke in ( charge cycles) so time to start ramping up the controller ( its programmable) also next phase is a larger motor, initally and the reason for such a small motor was I was going to run two 9" motors but after looking at the frame and machining it would cost more than a 11" motor and would have weighed more... the have a HV version that will take the full pack power 288 volts and 1400 amps... almost twice the power of this motor... MO |
Its a very neat electric car conversion done by you with a C4 Corvette.
Its the beginning of the end for gasoline internal combustion engine performance also I am thinking tonight. Its what the Green tree huggers want. Electric cars. The power to weight ratio( energy BTU content per 1 gallon) of gasoline engine will never be matched by electric cars I believe. Unless Nuclear - atomic batteries are allowed into public hands. Nuclear batteries do exist. They have been around since the 1960's. Used only by the Military & NASA. No recharging required for many years. But dangerous of course. Accident crash. Nuclear batteries were used in 1st generation pacemakers implanted in patients chests. Guinea pigs. LOL Nice workmanship by you on your C4 electric Vette. BR |
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
(Post 1577904348)
Close to about 2 years ago, I was having issues getting my Supercharged 396 Corvette through California Emissions testing.
I posted a few pictures long ago. I was actually bumped by Agent 86 to give an update on my "Jetson Car" LOL I don't need to hear the flames ( although everyone has been quite kind about this.) I love this car and I love the power, so to beat the emissions I converted the car to complete battery power. It was a choice of only being able to run at the strip or converting and get to drive anytime I want, AND smog exempt! I can throw as much amperage and batteries at this that I want and not have to worry about failing a smog test . I'll answer a bunch of questions then add some comments with the pictures as well. When I embarked on this 2 years ago I took baby steps rather than just blowing money... I started out with a 500Amp controller and was running 144v using 12 -12v batteries with the 4L60E automatic. Two years later I have received a battery sponsorship and I'm continuing to move forward with performance. I now am running 288 volts 16 16 volt batteries and have a water cooled 2000Amp controller. The motor is only rated for 100 HP ( for now)... I'm still contemplating a second motor or a larger higher voltage version. To date at 100 rpm's I'm hitting 739 ft/lbs of torque which settles to about 240 ft/lbs at about 1400, averages out at about 195 ft/lbs to about 3200 RPM's and 150 ft /lbs through to about 5500 RPM I'm squeezing 133 HP ( out of a 100 rated motor ) at 3500 rpm'd I redline at 5500 RPM"s About a year ago I pulled out the 4L60E and put in a ZF6 manual transmission. so that I would not have to idle the motor at stop lights. At about 50 mph I get about 22 miles to a charge... Around town it is closer to about 30 miles. ( For those to compare a Prius without the motor running gets 40 miles.) top speed is about 85 mph thus far. I'm still breaking in the batteries. It take about 4 hours to charge depending on how far down I run the batteries, it charges from either 120 or 220 volt outlets. I pulled 938 pounds from the car, 8 pounds of wire under the hood alone which was strictly engine wiring. I replaced with 1089 pounds so the car os only 150 pounds over stock weight. 0-60 is about 8 seconds right now... That is with only 600 amps being pulled from the batteries and a 1-2 without a clutch http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/1.jpg The 386 Supercharged LT4 with a T-trim http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/2.jpg After the engine was pulled only the automatic remained. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/3.jpg Everything was pulled from the engine compartment. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/4.jpg The electric motor adapter is fitted to the 4L60E http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/5.jpg http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/6.jpg The car is up for pulling out all the emissions parts. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/7.jpg Fuel tank is removed. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/8.jpg The ADC FB1-4001 100 peak HP electric motor. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/9.jpg The shaft adapter to adapt the flex plate to the motor. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/10.jpg Motor with the adapter plate http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/11.jpg Crankshaft adapter added to the rear of the motor. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/12.jpg Flex plate added... http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/13.jpg Everything assembled. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/14.jpg Battery racks for the lower front 4 batteries. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/15.jpg Electric Power steering pump. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/16.jpg Power steering pump and motor is in. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/17.jpg The "old" Curtis Controller maximum 500 Amps http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/18.jpg As I mentioned after about a year I swapped out the automatic to save juice so at a light I did not have to idle the motor to keep transmission pressure. This is the new "clutchless" adapter... http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/19.jpg The adapter essentially couples the transmission input shaft to the motor. The spline and springs were retained to absorb torsional spikes. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/20.jpg The motor is mated to the ZF6 6 speed transmission, I kept my D36 differential ( for now) and changed the input shaft on the drive shaft, this didn't require any cutting to the driveshaft, nor modifications to the C-Beam http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/21.jpg ZF6 Just about in... http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/22.jpg Fuel tank removed and rear battery rack which will now hold 10 batteries. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/23.jpg 20 New XS Power XP1000 16 volt batteries. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/24.jpg These are capable of 2400 amp draw ( I have thus far only pulled about 900 amps from them. they weigh 46 pounds. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/25.jpg Lower 4 XP1000 batteries installed. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/26.jpg 10 XP1000 batteries installed in the rear. I use 2/0 welding cables to connect the batteries. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/27.jpg Wasn't planned this way, but looks pretty cool! With the rear bumper back on the car. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/28.jpg 2/0 cable connecting the rear battery pack to the front batteries. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/29.jpg Gast Vacuum pump and Square D pressure switch handle the power brakes and vacuum elsewhere in the car. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/30.jpg Fuses block for the controller, the red cap is an inertia switch in the event of an accident it disconnects power to the system. The silver square to the right is the "Pot box" this is essentially the throttle control. Look at it as a light dimmer control... More the accelerator is pushed the brighter the lights, or the faster I go .... Below the pot box it a Dakota digital speedometer box. It connects to the Vss sensor in the transmission and feed the speed to the stock speedometer. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/31.jpg The top 4 batteries in the front, the car has a total of 18 batteries the weigh 46 pounds each. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/32.jpg In the foreground is the Cafe' Zilla Controller HV-2000 it is water cooled capable of 2000 amps and can control 2 motors with a nominal 300 volts... The black box with fins is the on-board El con Battery charger that will charge all the batteries simultaneously. The far side is the main power breaker and the green smaller box is the "hairball" which is the brains for the controller, it can log runs , sets the high and low voltages as well as rev limit the motor. http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/33.jpg Side view http://www.ndneyes.com/forum/34.jpg Rear view It is interesting driving around and people are looking to hear a rumble. The comments of most who have ridden in the car is that it is like a them park ride, you feel it pull you back in the seat, but there is no noise... almost eerie quiet. Thanks for letting me share... MO |
Very cool Mo wow !!! I must say that is well done and awesome. So did you do this to pass strict emissions and just swap the sc motor back in whenever you please or permanent mod?
I always wondered... if you made room for a tiny gas or diesel engine like lawnmower sized and hooked it up to an alternator how much juice would you be able to pump back into the batteries as long as the mini gas tank would last? I figured i would be cool with a little fuel you could overdrive an alternator to pump some power back in while driving. Perhaps its negligible but i always thought about it when cutting the grass. if the lawnmower can cut grass for 2 hours for $3-4 of fuel how much juice could it put back in the batteries .. |
Originally Posted by richauto
(Post 1578030377)
WOW!:cheers:
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That's one impressive piece of engineering. Congrat's!!! :thumbs:
But I'd rather listen to the V8 rhumble...:cool: (Is your original LT4 for sale.....? :D:D:D ) |
Originally Posted by ajax6
(Post 1578031628)
That's one impressive piece of engineering. Congrat's!!! :thumbs:
But I'd rather listen to the V8 rhumble...:cool: (Is your original LT4 for sale.....? :D:D:D ) Actually there is a company that makes a sound module that plugs into the cigarette lighter, ( add a 200W amplifier LOL) Unfortunately, I have already sold the motor. Regards, MO |
Originally Posted by 5abivt
(Post 1578030522)
Very cool Mo wow !!! I must say that is well done and awesome. So did you do this to pass strict emissions and just swap the sc motor back in whenever you please or permanent mod?
I always wondered... if you made room for a tiny gas or diesel engine like lawnmower sized and hooked it up to an alternator how much juice would you be able to pump back into the batteries as long as the mini gas tank would last? I figured i would be cool with a little fuel you could overdrive an alternator to pump some power back in while driving. Perhaps its negligible but i always thought about it when cutting the grass. if the lawnmower can cut grass for 2 hours for $3-4 of fuel how much juice could it put back in the batteries .. After spending a ton of money to "chase" 4 points of Nox @15 mph and still failing, I decided I had enough of trying to get a supercharged car through smog... I'm an engineer and had been looking at electric conversions for some time and at that point decided if I was going to do the swap then now was the perfect opportunity to do "something different" (2 years ago). The car has been registered as a BEV in California, so no there is no turning back, the mod is permanent. I sold the motor over a year ago. The car is still a work in progress, but the great thing is I can have literally more torque than my supercharged engine had and not have to worry about passing smog. So this has actually been my motivation. I am either adding a second motor or going to a larger 11" motor for more horsepower and torque. The controller and batteries I have are well in excess of what the current motor can handle at this point. As I start ramping up the amps, and increasing the torque, then I'm pushing what the ZF6 transmission input shaft will take , so then comes the decision to go direct drive, which then means running like 4.88's in the rear end. Yes there are people who make "pushers" that are generators that continue to charge the batteries when driving long distances. They have to be temporarily attached to the car as in a trailer, anything that has a gas powered motor that would be permanently attached to the car such as in a trunk or under the hood is considered a hybrid, and the engine would then have to pass smog. Which creates another can of worms LOL. So this is not a real popular thing to do for that reason, but there are folks out there who do... With lithium batteries you do have the ability to extend your range substantially, at a price. Regards, MO |
because of the direct coupling (no clutch), you never had to chase down the clutch pedal or hydraulics for that did you? just mounted the ZF6 and changed the console cover?
BTW, my friend has a supercharged L98 355 that has the lowest NOx I have ever seen, but he used dished pistons to run 8:1 compression...bit of a dog off boost, but it is ridiculously clean on the smog test with the low comp and valve overlap from the cam. |
Originally Posted by mike100
(Post 1578034881)
because of the direct coupling (no clutch), you never had to chase down the clutch pedal or hydraulics for that did you? just mounted the ZF6 and changed the console cover?
BTW, my friend has a supercharged L98 355 that has the lowest NOx I have ever seen, but he used dished pistons to run 8:1 compression...bit of a dog off boost, but it is ridiculously clean on the smog test with the low comp and valve overlap from the cam. Correct. I actually do have the hydraulics, but I never put them in. I was looking into the whole conversion with the pedal assy, but the cost of the flywheel etc. seemed cost prohibitive in comparison to making a coupler... I of course still have the ability revert back if I find the need... So yes I loose some time in the 1-2 shift ( say speed shifting), however I have never run into an issue with shifting gears. Yes on my 396 they were "butterfly" cut flat tops and was a touch high for an ideal supercharged engine, the compression ratio was (9.7 :1) for I was shooting for 9 -9.5 :1 the engine builder didn't quite get that heh. I was running a lunati cam that was cut very close to an LT1 "hot cam" so the cam actually was pretty tame... Aside from the Nox @ q5 mph the engine was very respectable everywhere else in terms of smog... MO |
Originally Posted by pologreen1
(Post 1578020499)
Unbelievable follow through, attention to detail and just plain balls to attempt this and complete with success.
Congrats, great youtube videos of it too. MO |
Originally Posted by 87 vette 81 big girl
(Post 1578028548)
Its a very neat electric car conversion done by you with a C4 Corvette.
Its the beginning of the end for gasoline internal combustion engine performance also I am thinking tonight. Its what the Green tree huggers want. Electric cars. The power to weight ratio( energy BTU content per 1 gallon) of gasoline engine will never be matched by electric cars I believe. Unless Nuclear - atomic batteries are allowed into public hands. Nuclear batteries do exist. They have been around since the 1960's. Used only by the Military & NASA. No recharging required for many years. But dangerous of course. Accident crash. Nuclear batteries were used in 1st generation pacemakers implanted in patients chests. Guinea pigs. LOL Nice workmanship by you on your C4 electric Vette. BR Thank you! Yes I quickly found this out LOL Lead will never compete with Lithiums for sure ( or a gallon of gas), most of the oil and gas industry are buying up the patents and research on the next generation of batteries as we know... While I know a lot of performance folks look on in "horror" this is REALLY a fun project... It is by no means "finished" I wanted to at least get this out into the open for others to see. I started the project 2 years ago , had it on the road in less than 3 months looking into the viability , rather than socking 15K into something an "fail"... It is like any other project you build and refine, and keep upping the power. I'm not using the controller to even a 1/4 of its capacity yet. As you have seen me mention many times, I'm at the decision point of whether to go with a second 9" motor or jump to a larger 11" motor. Both have their strong points... The second 9" will require some machining an moving things around while the 11" would really be just a drop in solution... I agree we are going to see more and more hybrids for sure,as you have seen me post before, this can also be performed, but in California if the motor is permanently installed in the car, then you have to run the car through smog for the motor... thus the reason I have gone strictly battery... I have two other sports cars , so if I feel the need for speed I can do so... Regards, MO |
That is some fine work!! I am impressed. Do you have an engineering background?
Eddie :rock: |
:iagree::thumbs:
Originally Posted by Vette Daddy
(Post 1577909831)
That is absolutely amazing.:thumbs:
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what that...............
what ever happend to that nice original supercharge motor. ??? if you dont waned. you can alwasy give it to me. |
Reading this thread was the most fun I've had in a long time. I love attention to detail and you have demonstrated this beyond belief.
I watched a video a while back that had an all electric drag car that ran amazing times, below 10 second 1/4 mile runs. I believe it had the electric motors directly attached to the wheels, no transmission. Have you thought about the loss of power through the tranny and differential? (I'm sure you have) I'm retired but work at the local "Zone" to keep busy. One of my customers does the converions. When he drives his latest vehicle in, the store empties to see his master pieces. He's been all over and has done some really nice work. BUT, from what I've seen, your attention to detail is tops, and you picked a nice car to convert. How about "Sparky" for a plate? I'm sure we'll see you on TV showing the world your master piece. I'm envious of creative people. Keep at it and don't let the oil companies get to you. :salute: |
Originally Posted by MK 82
(Post 1578532487)
That is some fine work!! I am impressed. Do you have an engineering background?
Eddie :rock: |
Originally Posted by indallas1978
(Post 1578533001)
:iagree::thumbs:
|
Originally Posted by hitmanpty
(Post 1578533620)
what that...............
what ever happend to that nice original supercharge motor. ??? if you dont waned. you can alwasy give it to me. :thumbs: Cheers MO |
Originally Posted by Strick
(Post 1578536717)
Reading this thread was the most fun I've had in a long time. I love attention to detail and you have demonstrated this beyond belief.
I watched a video a while back that had an all electric drag car that ran amazing times, below 10 second 1/4 mile runs. I believe it had the electric motors directly attached to the wheels, no transmission. Have you thought about the loss of power through the tranny and differential? (I'm sure you have) I'm retired but work at the local "Zone" to keep busy. One of my customers does the converions. When he drives his latest vehicle in, the store empties to see his master pieces. He's been all over and has done some really nice work. BUT, from what I've seen, your attention to detail is tops, and you picked a nice car to convert. How about "Sparky" for a plate? I'm sure we'll see you on TV showing the world your master piece. I'm envious of creative people. Keep at it and don't let the oil companies get to you. :salute: Yes I have kicked around the direct drive approach, they work great for 1/4 mile runs, but as a " daily driver" you have to force air to the motor to keep the motor cool as they are designed to run at about 3-4000 rpm's continuous. So the lower RPM's ~ 800 RPM (at cruise)would heat the motor due to the high current at the low RPM's... Another solution it to "siamese " two motors together which many folks do this increases the torque this requiring less amperage to drive the motors. I was going to do with the current 9" motor. I actually JUST ordered a Netgain 11.5 HV motor that will handle 288v and 1400 amps,( if the batteries do not sag) the motor is capable of bursts of 540 HP! It should be in mid September so there will be some more videos and pictures coming. If you do a Google search "Wayne Bickley Electric Corvette" there are over 50 Google pages of online magazines and blogs of coverage on the car. Including links to my You Tube videos. After posting I recieved over 22,000 views. The press, some good some "bad" but I don't expect everyone to have the same "opinions " or vision that I have. I agree it may not be for everyone , but I tell you it is a blast! Especially the poice looking for a rumble LOL This car is a blast and you are correct, the stores empty and the garages empty by simply pulling up to get a tire fixed. Currently I'm doing 0-60 on about 8.9 seconds with a 100 peak HP motor. When I install the 11" motor I should be AT least where the car was "stock" with the exception I will have probably well over 800 ft/ lbs of torque! ( I'm makeing around 700 Ft/ Lbs now at 200 RPM's based on the logs. with the controller set to 900 amps to the motor which is that max on this current motor. This is a project car, so it is still a work in progress. Thanks for the encouragement... I have plates coming "MO AMPS " :lol: Best regards, MO |
For those who are following this, here is the new MOtor which is due any time now...
Net Gain Warp 11HV 288V * 1400 Amps= 403200 watts 341600/ 746 = ~540 HP :D Calculatedworse case battery sag 212V *1000 amps=212000 watts 212000/746 = ~284 HP https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...77bc5639d0.jpg MO |
I wish you were back east so I could watch you do this. My nephew and I are watching every post you make. I'll be starting a top end build this fall and your perfectionist quality is rubbing off on me.
|
:lurk:
:thumbs::thumbs: |
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
(Post 1578543404)
For those who are following this, here is the new MOtor which is due any time now...
Net Gain Warp 11HV 288V * 1400 Amps= 403200 watts 341600/ 746 = ~540 HP :D Calculatedworse case battery sag 212V *1000 amps=212000 watts 212000/746 = ~284 HP http://www.evsource.com/images/netga.../showcase1.jpg MO Next time I'm in SoCal....I'll buy dinner and drinks for a ride in your car. I'm just so impressed by your work...I want to see how this car evolves over time. :cheers: |
Dare to be different :thumbs:
Need to take that to dragstrip and see what it does. Should be pretty good in the 1/8th |
Originally Posted by Frizlefrak
(Post 1578549391)
I'm glad you put the conversion formula into HP in there. With amps, volts and watts, my head was spinning (which isn't hard to do) :lol:
Next time I'm in SoCal....I'll buy dinner and drinks for a ride in your car. I'm just so impressed by your work...I want to see how this car evolves over time. :cheers: As everyone knows it take time and MONEY to do these projects... I'm building and recording data as I go. As I was ording the new motor, the customer service guy was like WHAT? That will really wake the car up :D Regards, MO |
Originally Posted by BrianCunningham
(Post 1578552243)
Dare to be different :thumbs:
Need to take that to dragstrip and see what it does. Should be pretty good in the 1/8th Regards, MO |
Please keep us up to date on this project as it evolves over the years. A tip of the cap to you, sir, on a job well done. Mighty impressive. And this comes from one who's not easily impressed.
Live well, SJW |
Originally Posted by SJW
(Post 1578554388)
Please keep us up to date on this project as it evolves over the years. A tip of the cap to you, sir, on a job well done. Mighty impressive. And this comes from one who's not easily impressed.
Live well, SJW |
As an EE myself (65 and retired) I can state with certainty that you've done a hell of a job. That install looks flawless. A little extra juice and you can say that you have a half a megawatt.:D I'll bet that those batteries will not last too long at Wide open throttle with the new motor. The 1/8 mile speed will be great but the 1/4 would take forever......literally. Run out of juice at the 3/16ths mark.
Beautiful job. Now if I could just get my electricians at the plant to do that kind of work we'd have it made. |
New Netgain 11HV
Hi folks!
Well for those of you following my updates, the motor came in last week and I installed it over the weekend. Below are some pictures... Enjoy! https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...c5ef40391c.jpg In the box! https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...970c4bfe93.jpg Pulling the 223 LB motor out with the cherry picker... https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...4c64c060dd.jpg Out with the 9" motor.... https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...76102a3094.jpg Side by side comparision... HEH https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...463ffda66b.jpg Wired to 16 volts breaking in the brushes and checking the runout on the flywheel and clutch/ pressure plate. (Fidanza and Zoom 11" clutch pressure plate if you're curious...) https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...11bcd4fbc8.jpg Ready to install... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...fdb039f99f.jpg On it's way home... https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...fa2a485c86.jpg Resting in place, waiting for the front mount to arrive... ( passenger side view) https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...cf32de6f82.jpg Drivers side view ( note the controller and other components are still not installed yet.) So some quick stats on the motor: 11.45" in diameter 223 pounds Max voltage 288 volts Maximum Current 1400amps The older motor: 9" in diameter 173 pounds Max voltage 150V Max current 900 amps Enjoy! MO |
What are the spade lugs on the motor for. A thermistor or something?
|
how about getting a photovoltic cell for the roof panel to extend some range?
|
The new motor looks like a beast in comparison. :cool:
Looking forward to some new video updates. :canadaflag: |
The size difference between the two motors is like a 283 and a 502.
|
Originally Posted by 1963SS
(Post 1578893208)
What are the spade lugs on the motor for. A thermistor or something?
MO |
Originally Posted by dolbnyc
(Post 1578893378)
how about getting a photovoltic cell for the roof panel to extend some range?
MO |
Originally Posted by AGENT 86
(Post 1578896456)
The new motor looks like a beast in comparison. :cool:
thank you! Looking forward to some new video updates. :canadaflag: As I was breaking in the brushes with 16 volts attached to the motor, I of course was also checking the run out on the flywheel and clutch assy, it was so smooth you could probably balance a dime on its end... Yes there was about a 80 pound weight penalty, however... This this is a torque monster.... |
Originally Posted by mrmtrtrnd
(Post 1578896525)
The size difference between the two motors is like a 283 and a 502.
Once I see how this works out, future plans would be to buy a second Trans 11"HV and go direct drive, up the rear end to like a 4.88 or there abouts... MO |
Hey Mo, (I always wanted to say that:D), get busy and install that puppy. Since electric motors make the most torque at 0 RPM you should be able to post up a mean video of tires smoking. Just for fun, have you figured how long the batteries would last at WOT or Wide Open Potentiometer? (WOP?)
What is an acceptable level to discharge those batteries to? Does a full discharge affect their life expectancy? Let's see a tire smokin' vid.:thumbs: |
Originally Posted by 1963SS
(Post 1578898323)
Hey Mo, (I always wanted to say that:D), get busy and install that puppy. Since electric motors make the most torque at 0 RPM you should be able to post up a mean video of tires smoking. Just for fun, have you figured how long the batteries would last at WOT or Wide Open Potentiometer? (WOP?)
What is an acceptable level to discharge those batteries to? Does a full discharge affect their life expectancy? Let's see a tire smokin' vid.:thumbs: Yes the estimated torque from 0-about 1600 RPM is going to be in the neighborhood of about 700 ft/lbs LOL all depends ( as you know) on how much voltage and amps I can draw and throw at the motor :D The batteries can go to about 80% depth of discharge. I have 315-35's on the back and an additional 250 pounds of batteries where the tank used to be. So it will either smoke tires... HOOK ... or make pretzel's out of the half shafts LOL Regards, MO |
Totally badazz project!
:rock: |
Pretty cool car, that'd be perfect on my 3 mile comute back and forth to work, keep us updated. :cool::cheers:
|
VERY cool update! Congrats once again on one killer corvette! I just keeps getting better and better.
|
Thanks for the update and excellent pics. The side-by-side of the two motors is the most telling shot of all! The Warp looks like a monster next to the old one!
|
Great Job! Probably here in Michigan in the winter, one would probably only get 2 bocks before needing a charge!
|
Originally Posted by scotth48
(Post 1578901588)
Great Job! Probably here in Michigan in the winter, one would probably only get 2 bocks before needing a charge!
I was raised in Northern Ohio, i feel your pain... If I were there i would have the batteries in battery boxes, and set the heaters for about 85 F then the cold would noot significantly affect the range. Mo |
Hi Folks,
For those of you who subscribed to this thread my apologies, I started a new thread on the progress of the car with some additional pictures. I wasn't sure if people wanted to wade through 9 pages of posts. I will keep to the same thread the next time. So if you were looking for updates on the build, the new link is: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-g...-pictures.html Regards, MO |
you know what I love to see. a video of this car running.
|
No apology needed, but the link is a good idea.
|
Originally Posted by hitmanpty
(Post 1579098026)
you know what I love to see. a video of this car running.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYCu66M-tJM Do a search on "Wayne Bickley " in your tube there is a walk around an a couple drive. Sorry no tire smoke but even with the 9" motor the car was fairly quick. Stay tuned, MO |
Mo's Electric Corvette MOre updates
Hi Folks,
It has been a while since I have posted any updates... After installing the new Netgain 11HV I had tested it, put time on it breaking in the brushes, as soon as I put the car on the ground and went to back out of the garage, the motor let out a large bang and that was all she wrote :( I sent the motor back for repair it was covered under warranty :) I received the motor and went back to re-installing, and decided to go "OCD" on the motor compartment, I still have to cleanup a little bit of wiring, but that is what a project car is : never finished !!! LOL Again I re-installed the motor coupler, flywheel, clutch pressure plate, throw out bearing put everything back together, I put the hairball and the DC-DC converter into a electrical box and moved the zilla 2000A controller and the battery charger over the motor using 1.5" aluminum angle iron and lexan to give the car a bit of depth... I have been slowly stepping up the motor as the brushes are being seated... I'm setting at 310V pack voltage, and pulling 700 amps from the batteries and running the motor at 192 volts and 1200 amps. Or roughly about 280 - 300 HP :) The car is running quite healthy needless to say! I am now pretty much driving in 2nd and 3rd gear, as expected the car is exhibiting a ton of torque. I'm still dialing thinkgs in as I get better logs I will post some HP torque numbers... but based on my spread starting in 3rd gear I have as much torques as a stock LT1 in first gear. I have not installed a clutch pedal yet ( was originally an automatic) so I have no clutch to "dump". However I have punched the car which will pin you to the back of the seat quite nicely even though I'm a bit cautious of how the drive train will handle the torque as rear wheels are still the 315/35-17 Goodyear Eagle Ones.. Some pictures to enjoy.... MO Once I have some time I will post some videos to You tube https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...256430a633.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...a9d2f3a2b8.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...24f15adc08.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...888598306d.jpg |
What's your expected range with the new setup, fully broken in?
This is very cool, thanks for sharing! :thumbs: |
Originally Posted by 96GS#007
(Post 1579658844)
What's your expected range with the new setup, fully broken in?
This is very cool, thanks for sharing! :thumbs: I'm still at about 30 miles, I'm looking into lithiums, which will shed about 300 pounds and almost triple the range range. Best regards, MO |
Way too cool! LOVE seeing the updates. Wish I could turn my truck into a MONSTER electric hauler (bagged C1500), but know it weights too much. Much less no budget for such a conversion. Keep it up Mo...still wish we could find you a sponsor for those lithium batteries!
|
Thanks for the support Shakedown :)
MO |
Mo, This is a fantastic Corvette. I love it and wish you good fortune with further upgrades.
A few questions though, how much trouble would it be to put a pressure switch in the brakes and add a controller to the motor to turn it into a generator to do generate power while braking? How much power could be gained? Would this simple approach even work? If not could regenerative braking be done just for the rears and keep the fronts the same for safety? What am I missing? I am sure you have considered something, what are your ideas? Thanks for all the updates as well. |
Thanks for the update Mo.... :cheers:
You said before the Lithiums were quite spendy. Has the price come down any.....or are they just getting toooooo tempting? :D I'm still dying to see it in person. Maybe this summer. :cheers: |
Originally Posted by 95tripleblack
(Post 1579667471)
Mo, This is a fantastic Corvette. I love it and wish you good fortune with further upgrades.
A few questions though, how much trouble would it be to put a pressure switch in the brakes and add a controller to the motor to turn it into a generator to do generate power while braking? How much power could be gained? Would this simple approach even work? If not could regenerative braking be done just for the rears and keep the fronts the same for safety? What am I missing? I am sure you have considered something, what are your ideas? Thanks for all the updates as well. I live in a pretty flat area, however i could see it very viable in hilly areas where you could recoup more energy . Also very few DC series controllers support regenerative braking, the AC motors / controllers however do support regenerative braking so like anything it depends on where your priorities lie... Regards, MO |
Originally Posted by Frizlefrak
(Post 1579667599)
Thanks for the update Mo.... :cheers:
You said before the Lithiums were quite spendy. Has the price come down any.....or are they just getting toooooo tempting? :D I'm still dying to see it in person. Maybe this summer. :cheers: Happy new years! Well they are dropping to about a buck an amp hour LOL so they are getting pretty close, maybe i can stand on a corner and beg with a sign " will work for lithium batteries" LOL You have an open invitation to stop by anytime, just let me know and we can make it happen ! If the weather holds maybe i can get some videos up on you tube this weekend ;) Regards, MO |
Still following this.... any up to date videos, inside and out of the car driving?
|
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
(Post 1579667974)
" will work for lithium batteries" LOL
If you'll build it, I'll help panhandle. :rock: Can't wait to see some more video. I think about this project a lot and am astonished at how professional your install looks, no less performs. If the factory had built an electric Corvette, this is how it would look. Still shooting for coming to SoCal sometime in spring or early summer to go on a Bomber Run with PLRX and the SoCal crew. I definitely want to see your car. :cheers: |
Originally Posted by popo8
(Post 1579668061)
Still following this.... any up to date videos, inside and out of the car driving?
So as before I plan more drive by videos as well as some in car and a walk around ;) Regards, MO |
:thumbs: Keep up the good work and keep us posted.
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how long dos the car drive for be for you have to recharge the car ?
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Geez I can't believe I haven't looked at this thread yet!
I guess I must've thought it was just a thread on the guy with the 87 (which I had seen before). This is soooo dang cool! :cool: I love Frizlefrak's name suggestion... Corvolt!!!!!!!! LOL!!! You should trademark that name! :) |
Originally Posted by jon1all
(Post 1579820067)
Geez I can't believe I haven't looked at this thread yet!
I guess I must've thought it was just a thread on the guy with the 87 (which I had seen before). This is soooo dang cool! :cool: I love Frizlefrak's name suggestion... Corvolt!!!!!!!! LOL!!! You should trademark that name! :) So the plan in going lithium's with should put me in the 75 miles or so category, I'm still at about 30 miles but a whole lot more oooomph :D Regards, MO |
Originally Posted by Mo_Bandy
(Post 1579849833)
Very Cool name! Yes this is one of 3 in North America that I know of... The 87 is in Minnesota, he beat me by about 6 months of being the first...
So the plan in going lithium's with should put me in the 75 miles or so category, I'm still at about 30 miles but a whole lot more oooomph :D Regards, MO |
Originally Posted by pmihaltian
(Post 1579850130)
Wow ! What a project :thumbs: YOU are a fine engineer, Mo. :cheers:
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