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I first posted this fuel pump how-to about 10 years ago and I have moved on from the C6 Vette world. Motörhead-47 should be called Motorhead-59 now! Anyhow, there are plenty of smart guys on this forum who hopefully can chime in and give you some words of wisdom on your issues. Best of luck
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Just read this post with great interest and I hope, 9 years later you're still active on this forum.
I have a 2003 base C5 AUTO with the same fuel pump/system. The pump has stopped working so I need to replace it. I started investigating before finding your thread and, although everything looks very similar, I just wondered if you know of any differences in the method for the C5. Reading further responses it seems it's a good idea to remove the exhaust. Also, where can i get the fuel line connector tool? Any guidance gratefully received. |
BJMSAM, I'm about to do this job. Maybe it'll become obvious when I do it but I don't understand why I need to pull these wires out of the plug to connect to the sender. Shouldn't the connections be the same and I just re-connect the plug?
By the way, mine's a 2003 C5 Auto with this later fuel system. I hope the process is very similar. |
Installed new pump but won’t start
What happens or could happen if you don’t disconnect the negative terminal to the battery? I’ve installed a new fuel pump assembly but now it won’t start. Just tries to turn over. Every 10 turns it sounds like it’s barely starting to get fuel. I’m wondering if I fried the pump, have it installed wrong or what. I installed the upgraded fuel pump assembly part # 19149687 Model # M10059 that I guess is what’s in a Z06. Mine is just a standard 3LT. Any help would be appreciated. Oh, and I did put about a little less than a gallon of bad gas in after the install...I had in a gas can that was a little old. But I’ve added 4 more gallons of fresh gas. or could my o-rings be bad?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...7a26962a1.jpeg
Originally Posted by Motorhead-47
(Post 1576005614)
Post #2
- To get to the fuel pump the driver's side tank must be removed from the vehicle...there is absolutely no other way to get to it. It has to come out of the top of the tank and no, you can not cut a hole from above to access it. - You really want to start the job with as close to an empty fuel system as reasonably possible. Absolutely do not work with more than 1/2 a tank because I know of no way to easily get the fuel out of the passenger side tank. - You need about 24" of clearance under the car to get the tank out. A set of 6 ton or larger jack stands should get you there. I have a set of 12 tons that are total beasts that I use under the rear cradle. - If you are pulling both tanks than you need to remove both rear wheels. You don't need to drop the passenger side tank to remove the pump in the driver's side though - Assuming you have less than 1/2 tank the technique I use to remove the rest of the fuel in the driver's tank is to let the fuel pump do the work for me. Of course this doesn't work if you have a dead pump. In that case you are stuck with the siphon it out as best you can method. Each gallon weighs about 7lbs and works against you later in the effort so best to get as much out now as you can. - If your current pump is still working what I do is disconnect the fuel line under the hood at the metal pipe at the firewall. I then slip a 5' piece of rubber 3/8" fuel line over that metal line and put the other end in a large gas can setting on the floor. - To get the fuel pump to run continuously without the car running you will have to jumper across two terminals of the fuel pump relay under the hood in the fuse box. Once you've done this you simply turn the ignition to the start position (don't crank the motor over) and let the fuel pump run the driver's side tank dry for you. The pump relay is #55 in the fuse box. Attachment 48153870 Jumper from here Attachment 48153871 to diagonally across to the terminal here to get the pump to run continuously Attachment 48153872 When the tank is dry shut the car off and DISCONNECT THE BATTERY NEGATIVE TERMINAL! - Reconnect the fuel line to the fuel rail and store the gas can in a safe place. |
Originally Posted by gfox
(Post 1601333027)
What happens or could happen if you don’t disconnect the negative terminal to the battery? I’ve installed a new fuel pump assembly but now it won’t start. Just tries to turn over. Every 10 turns it sounds like it’s barely starting to get fuel. I’m wondering if I fried the pump, have it installed wrong or what. I installed the upgraded fuel pump assembly part # 19149687 Model # M10059 that I guess is what’s in a Z06. Mine is just a standard 3LT. Any help would be appreciated. Oh, and I did put about a little less than a gallon of bad gas in after the install...I had in a gas can that was a little old. But I’ve added 4 more gallons of fresh gas. or could my o-rings be bad?
you can also use a multimeter to test voltage at the harness to make sure you're getting what you should be.. I doubt it's bad gas, I just fired up an old bike with three year old gas and it had no problem rolling around the block a few times... also, most threads I've read have suggested just buying a new cross over tube... I think it was like 100 bucks and people said it made life easier when trying to reinstall... https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/ac...fuel+hose,6352 |
No, it cannot. These cars do not have fuel pressure sensors (unless you have a ZR1). The ECM always assumes the fuel pressure regulator is working correctly and that it has 58psi..
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gfox - if you installed the cross over tube the way the pic in ur last thread looks... you have no fuel pressure... You left out the sleeve on the bottom tube. The top tube has it installed but the bottom doesn't. Sometimes it stays on the cross over tube side when taken apart, other time it blows apart and rolls across the garage floor. When you don't have the o'rings and sleeves installed properly all it does is fill up the passenger side tank but the entire system doesn't have pressure to the injectors.
:cheers: |
You wouldn't happen to have or know where I can quickly get the O-rings for the two inner fuel lines inside the driver side fuel tank?
I tried replacing my O-rings with non-OEM fuel rated types but apparently they were just a hair too small for the upper pressurized line. Hard start after reassembly...won't hold pressure between startups. :-/ |
I found all the bits you pointed out...put it all back together. But I tried replacing the O-rings with non-OEM type that must have been a hair too small for that upper pressurized line so it won't hold pressure in between startups...hard start. Know where I can get replacement O-rings? There was a green and yellow on the upper and a larger yellow on the bottom from what I swept up off my garage floor.
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I figured it out....it was the O-rings in the two fuel lines inside the tank...they got flung out, I found them and reinstalled...except the yellow ones were damage on my attempts of removal or reinstallation...
Do you have a part number for the O-rings or the fuel lines that go inside the tank? Thats what I need....new o-rings. |
Originally Posted by bmfvette
(Post 1601349977)
gfox - if you installed the cross over tube the way the pic in ur last thread looks... you have no fuel pressure... You left out the sleeve on the bottom tube. The top tube has it installed but the bottom doesn't. Sometimes it stays on the cross over tube side when taken apart, other time it blows apart and rolls across the garage floor. When you don't have the o'rings and sleeves installed properly all it does is fill up the passenger side tank but the entire system doesn't have pressure to the injectors.
:cheers: https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.cor...4bd882129.jpeg
Originally Posted by gfox
(Post 1601367879)
I figured it out....it was the O-rings in the two fuel lines inside the tank...they got flung out, I found them and reinstalled...except the yellow ones were damage on my attempts of removal or reinstallation...
Do you have a part number for the O-rings or the fuel lines that go inside the tank? Thats what I need....new o-rings. |
Uncertain if you can just purchase the oem o-rings separately. If so, a search on here should net you the part #'s as I recall reading others asking in past threads.
I'm getting ready to drop both tanks..purchased new plastic lines and they both came with the black ferrels and o-rings. |
Seems like I ran across a thread awhile back that someone purchased the o-rings. They do come with the cross over tube though (even though they install on the tank side). Theirs threads that say the crossover can only be taken apart once and after that you have to replace. I've found that not to be true as I've had them out multiple times and as long as you don't kink/bend (main tube) or break the lines inside and retain all the parts their fine.
Drew yes, If you pulled it apart and all stayed together like your pic, your one of the lucky ones. Both tubes require the sleeve. Sometimes they blow across the floor, stay on the cross over side, or blow across the garage. Also, the top line has a small spacer along with the 3 rings and the sleeve. :cheers: |
This is an excellent thread. Follow it carefully and methodically and it's certainly possible to remove the fuel tank without lowering the rear axle.
Mine is a 2003 C5 Auto and it is definitely possible to remove the driver side tank with the transaxle in situ. (If you need to remove the passenger side tank (eg to change the sender unit) I'm not sure that's possible on the auto as there is other stuff in the way of the cross-tube on that side. I didn't need to do this so didn't spend any time trying. There may be a way of doing it. If you have a sender issue you could try a fuel additive first. I've heard that can be successful). So, back to changing the pump. Follow the procedure at the start of this thread but note the following: 1. Stating the obvious, make absolutely sure the pump needs replacing! I did all this only to find that when I connected the pump directly to the battery it worked. My problem was a different electrical issue. If your pump doesn't work, first check and clean all the relevant earth connections. Try a direct battery connection to the two larger wires in the harness plug behind the rear wheel arch cover (grey live, black earth). If that works remove the pump relay and bridge where terminals 87 and 30 would go. This should operate the pump for when the ignition is on. This could also work as a get-you-home if your relay packs up. See this for relay testing info: //youtu.be/z_E8-D2IVKs 2. If your pump is running but noisy or you want to upgrade it for a modified engine, use the pump to drain the fuel first as described in the link. As my pump wasn't working I tried various combinations of tubes to try to syphon out the fuel only to find that there is an anti-syphon device blocking the way and I couldn't get past it. Removing the tank with 6 gallons of fuel is not fun. I used a trolley jack to take the weight but it's certainly easier if empty. 3. Jack the car up as far as possible. The tank is nearly 2 feet tall. Use axle stands. Don't rely on a hydraulic jack. My 30 year old jack gave out just as I was lowering the car back down. 4. Disconnect both rear silencers, loosen the centre hangar, disconnect the driver side rear exhaust mount and move the tail pipe out of the way. 5. When you get to the point of disconnecting the cross-tube, have patience. It's not easy, you'll swear a lot, when you can't do it first time (or second or third....) best to have a tea-break and go back to it. The link's description of moving the black clip and undoing the cross-tube collar is puzzling to read but clearer when you're doing it. It's pulling the cross-tube out that feels impossible! The cross-tube is corrugated but almost impossible to pull back the required approx 20mm. In addition to the above link, undo the passenger side tank cover bolts and wedge something between that tank and the chassis to pull the cross-tube over as far as possible. I then looped a small rope around the middle of the cross-tube and over the diff. If you go feet first from the back of the car so your head is under the diff you can pull the rope with your right hand to put a bend on the tube while pulling the cross tube out with your left. 6. With the cross tube out you can then see the vent pipe connection above it. That is also difficult to disconnect. Spray with WD40, practice on the similar connection by the filler neck. I selotaped a screwdriver bit to my thumb so I could depress the latch enough to remove it, had another tea break and finally got it off. It's a bugger of a job but I got there. Have patience and it can be done. (But best avoided if possible) |
I'm sure you can do it yourself on a truck that common, look on YouTube and see if you can find some videos on it. I kind of doubt the harness and pump would die at the same time personally. He's probably trying to be sure he finds the problem so it's safer to just replace both.
The pump/filter are one assembly on most newer cars.. not sure about that particular one. Do some searching on google/YouTube and I'm sure you can find some instructions on it. |
So I just finished replacing my FP on a C6 GS. No codes but the gauge maxed at 1/2 tank but help 16 gallons at fillip so I know both tanks are full. After driving approximately 40 miles, the gauge is now below 1/2 which means it is only pulling from the driver tank,correct? If this were the case, shouldn’t a code be thrown because the level sensor in pass tank resistance is inaccurate to what it should be if the fuel is being pulled from the drivers side first? What is the best way to troubleshoot the issue? Disconnected the battery for several hours but it didn’t resolve. Any connections that I could’ve missed or fuses to check? I’m stumped at this point. Had to drop the tank twice because the brand new FP assembly came with a fuel level sensor that was defective. After removing and inspecting, I notice the float arm connector was wobbly and on the low end, the brushes didn’t make full contact. I replaced my original to the new. Tested the resistance change with the sweep of the float prior to installing. Now the car runs as it should, zero codes but shows 1/2 at full. Any ideas?
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Personally I would connect a scanner (or HPTuners) capable of reading the voltages from both senders. I would run it down to what I think is fairly close to empty, maybe 1/4 of a tank or so and record the voltage during a fill up to see what is going on. That will at least tell you whether the senders are moving or not.
It almost sounds like the sender in the passenger side is stuck at the bottom. Did you have to mess with that side at all? That would match the behavior at least, but if you haven't touched it then it doesn't seem all that likely. Yes, if the passenger tank is staying "full" and the driver side is emptying, it should throw a code for that, though I'm not sure how long it takes for it to actually do so. |
Originally Posted by schpenxel
(Post 1603597738)
Personally I would connect a scanner (or HPTuners) capable of reading the voltages from both senders. I would run it down to what I think is fairly close to empty, maybe 1/4 of a tank or so and record the voltage during a fill up to see what is going on. That will at least tell you whether the senders are moving or not.
It almost sounds like the sender in the passenger side is stuck at the bottom. Did you have to mess with that side at all? That would match the behavior at least, but if you haven't touched it then it doesn't seem all that likely. Yes, if the passenger tank is staying "full" and the driver side is emptying, it should throw a code for that, though I'm not sure how long it takes for it to actually do so. |
FYI newer fuel level sensor isn't compatible with the older rheostat. You either have to reuse the older rheostat, or change the calibration settings.
If L tank is accessible I would continue to drop right tank and replace that level sensor as well. It's prone to fail. |
Originally Posted by DSOMC6
(Post 1603598737)
FYI newer fuel level sensor isn't compatible with the older rheostat. You either have to reuse the older rheostat, or change the calibration settings.
If L tank is accessible I would continue to drop right tank and replace that level sensor as well. It's prone to fail. |
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