Wish I could answer your question, but haven't had car out on the road to see how well paddles will help when auto crossing. While I believe the paddles will help my car when auto crossing since I have a close ratio 6 speed automatic, and the paddles should be of benefit since I have 2nd - 5th gears to choose from that are very similar to that of GM21 close ratio manual trans.

If I had an electronic A4 automatic like a 4L65/70 or 4L80E, I don't think paddles would be of much help since they only have 1st and 2nd gear to choose from to keep engine in it's power band when auto crossing. Lot of courses are set up so max MPH is around 35-40 MPH so a good manual shifter with postive detents would probably be just as good.

Spend the money on a good TQ converted setup for auto crossing first, then add the paddles later on if you think they will help and you will be autocrossing a lot. Another thing to take into cosideration is your rear end gearing. If its tall so your cruise RPM in OD is low, you may only need to lock it in 1st gear on most courses.

TCI 6X automatic
1st gear 2.93
2nd gear 2.23
3rd gear 1.57
4th gear 1.18
5th gear 1.00
6th gear 0.75

M21 close ratio 4 sp manual
1st gear 2.20
2nd gear 1.64
3rd gear 1.28
4th gear 1.00


4L65/70E 4 sp auto
1st gear 3.06
2nd gear 1.62
3rd gear 1.00
4th gear .070

4L80E 4sp auto
1st gear 2.48
2nd gear 1.48
3rd gear 1.00
4th gear .075

What you run into is RPM lost between shifts both in straight line racing or auto crossing. TQ converter stall is very important in making the car fun, and shocking the guys with manuals...:D

TCI 6X (4L80E based)
2.93
2.23 -- 76.10% (high) RPM Retention -- 23.90% RPM DROP
1.57 -- 70.40% (high) RPM Retention -- 29.60% RPM DROP
1.18 -- 75.16% (high) RPM Retention -- 24.84% RPM DROP
1.00 -- 84.745% (high) RPM Retention -- 15.255% RPM DROP
0.75 -- 75.00% (high) RPM Retention -- 25.00% RPM DROP

4l65/70E
3.06
1.62 -- 52.94% (high) RPM Retention 47.06% RPM DROP
1.00 -- 61.73% (high) RPM Retention 38.27% RPM DROP

4l80/85E
2.48
1.48 -- 59.68% (high) RPM Retention 40.32% RPM DROP
1.00 -- 67.57% (high) RPM Retention 32.43% RPM DROP

In all honesty, the Paddles are more for "WOW" factor for the younger crowd when they are looking the car over. I've seen at shows, that when they notice the car has paddles when checking out the interior, they really start to go over the car to see what else has been changed. Same thing can be said for the four, 4.0" inch exhaust tips when they see those too. They help get the attentions of C5 & C6 vette owners as well...LOL

PS: I'm running a light weight billet aluminum dual clutch converter that is designed to flash to around 2500-2700 RPM. Stall of converter is only slightly higher than a stock converter and with it's tight STR (Stall TQ Ratio) and dual clutches there is very little slip. I'm able to do this because of percent of RPM lost between shifts is almost half of what A4 autos are so I don't need a higher stalled converter to flash RPM to try and get engine back in it's power band between shifts that also generate a lot of fluid heating in doing that.

Great Info, Thanks for sharing.


Riggs

====================================
Your research on this is terrific. Were you able to find this at one web site, or did it require many different sites information to compile?

If it was one site, would you mind listing the address, I would love to have the link to use for further builds.

Thanks a million for the information.

Ty O'Neal

Ty,

To my knowledge there is no one single source for the above. What you see above, most came from a thread were I took to task most auto experts take on the GM/Ford 6 Speed automatic and a couple of Transmission builders comments about it not having the the least amount of RPM Drop between shifts when compared to the A4 autos. I didn't know how to prove my point, so I posted Max MPH at 6500 RPM to try and prove my point by the spread between the max speed base on gearing. A drag racer posted the correct way to prove my point.

IF you want to know what the % of RPM lost between shift is, for a manual or auto trans, you divide the gear ratio of the gear you're shifting INTO by the gear you're coming OUT OF.

When you dyno your engine, look at what RPM it makes it max TQ at. Thats the RPM you don't want your RPM to drop below between shifts manual or auto. That why you practice speed shifting a manual transmission, or like Corvette Racing team so they could be competitive with the cars in their classes on road courses that have paddle shift manual transmission went to paddle shifting last year too...LOL

Also lets them keep both hands on the steering wheel when doing all the up and down shifting. :D

If you want to learn about automatic transmissions and TQ converters, just start reading transmission section of any car forum. Takes a lot of searching and reading. Don't forget to read the stickies.

I like LS1tech Forum as they have several Transmission shops and TQ converter shops as sponsors as well as lot of drag racers so you get a lot of takes on subjects.

Pro Touring Forum has the best take on automatics and auto crossing them. Read ManualMatic sticky.

Thank you very much for responding. The automatics have come a long way, and I hoping one day that they will behave something like a sequential gear box as far as the shifting is quick and precise,.

This time around I'm trying the T-56 Close Ratio "Dogbox" from Keisler.

It wasn't cheap, but I think my shifts will be a lot faster. (I hope)

Ty

Caught in action ....laying down on the job. Getting the bugs off is not as much fun as putting them on there.



http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...0135767084.jpg

Think he finally got the bill and is looking for someone to run him over... :rofl:

I hoping getting run over will save me from having to pay one bill I've been avoiding.:D

If COPO doesn't get off his butt and crank'er up I guess I'll have to pay up, that is if and when I get tired of laying there. Maybe I should lay behind car so he can't load the trailer until he backs the car over me.:rofl:

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...0135767084.jpg

Hey!!! are you holding out on us? What are the other two rollers for?:D

you must have a lift??.....easier on the bod.:yesnod:

Looks like the shop where Andy works :D :D :D

Any updates on the '66?

Just two, there are more than that sitting around Street Shop Inc shop. One of them is fixing to be taken across the border into Canada.

I'm cleaning on the car since it's going up to Blooming Gold in St Charles, IL. It will be on display in Street Shop booth. Had a little road grime on it from 280 mile trip over to shop.

PS: I don't have a lift either.

The 66 now has exhaust and new top on it. Drove it to Goodguys show in Nashville without a top. Transmission lost it's tune when I lost cooling fans to engine and trans cooler. Shifts into 6th gear at very low MPH.

If I remember correctly, Engine ECM shuts the trans TCM down before it shuts down. If not it causes a problem. When I lost cooling fans, engine went into limp mode and TCM shutdown at same time as ECM. This is something I need to look into. I've been looking for thread a thread on LS1 tech, I think discussed problem when doing a conversion.

BLOWNZ is helping me to get trans tune straightened out. We just have to find time when we can both be there to work on it.

66 & 64 at Hotel in Nashville.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...4/IMG_1653.jpg

Cars look killer...

Sent you a PM about the tuning and timing.

:thumbs:

That is two great looking cars :thumbs:

Sent you a email Jere

Did get him a chair ...sitting down on the


http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...0290383253.jpg

Do you have any pictures of the car outside after completion? I am debating on whether to use charcoal gray with a black stinger or midnight blue metallic with a charcoal stinger.

Thanks

I'm not sure my paint is a good choice to try and make a stripe decision from. The paint I used is Pearlized Gunmetal color used on R8 AUDI and it's all over the place depending on light conditions inside or out.

Below are pictures of hood on car outside. Hood has been buffed out. You see depending on how sun hits paint, the paint goes from almost black to shade almost as light as the hood stripe's paint. Then in the third picture it's taken on a blue hue.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...4/P8050553.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...4/P8050574.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h.../DSC0039-L.jpg

Here is link to some photos taken by shop.

http://brod.smugmug.com/Other/Corvet...0581&k=9Qxrg3S

Car you may want to look at is Toddlin's 64 Coupe. His paint is another one that shows better in person than in will in pictures too. It gives car a classy look.

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eima.../DSC_00032.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eima...in/HoodsUp.jpg

Thanks! Those really help. Paint decisions are so difficult.

Any update on the other car?

Tom,

The 66 has been sitting since Nashville, Tn Goodguys show. I shorted out a relay and lost power to cooling fans, after driving over from Knoxville, TN in it. Not sure what happened when it overheated, but for some reason transmission programming seems to have gone awry. It started shifting way to early into 6th gear, but will cruise OK, except doesn't want to down shift into 5th or 4th when accelerating, so it lugs engine. Haven't been able to get it checked out. Part of that is due to alternator going out on the 64 at Nashville so had to swap one off the 66 on it.

Just got new one off prototype aluminum billet housing alternator back on the 64 to replace one on it and new 66 alternator I was using on 64 back on the 66 couple of weeks ago:willy:

Problem now is finding someone in my area with any knowledge of 6L80E and tuning software to see if it's programing issue. Computers are not trowing any trouble codes.

When it was running, it was a sweet ride over to Nashville from Knoxville...:D No muffler drone and it's very, very quiet unless you get on it. Then it's very loud to people behind you, but not to you.:D

Fun while it lasted.:D Driving over and at hotel.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...4/IMG_1652.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...4/IMG_1653.jpg