Dart Pro 1 vs AFR 195 Eliminators
Hello, just pricing out some combo's. The Dart Pro 1 200 and the AFR 195 Eliminators are almost the same price. ($1,400). Both of these are very popular high quality performance heads. Which head is the best, do you even need such high performance heads for, say a 450hp 383 or a stout 355? All opinions welcome. :flag:
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Originally Posted by Al Davis
(Post 1570055990)
Hello, just pricing out some combo's. The Dart Pro 1 200 and the AFR 195 Eliminators are almost the same price. ($1,400). Both of these are very popular high quality performance heads. Which head is the best, do you even need such high performance heads for, say a 450hp 383 or a stout 355? All opinions welcome. :flag:
:lurk: imho |
Originally Posted by pauldana
(Post 1570056293)
450 HP IS HIGH PERFORMANCE. and not only will you need to purchase such heads, but afterwards you will have to have them ported, polished, and port-matched to get this HP, along with headers cam intake, and so-forth.
:lurk: imho IŽll say you are completely wrong regarding the AFR Eliminators. Joe Sherman made a 383-combo with exactly the 195 afr:s and managed to get out nearly 620hp out of it if i didnŽt remeber this wrong in a couple of hp or so. All for pump gas and all was at around 6400rpm so the 7000+ rpm wasnt even needed, ofcourse youŽll need to have all other parts top notch as well but iŽll figure out you do so... The heads was also the regular race-ready not even the cnc-version of them so iŽll say go for the AFR:s they are KILLERS without comparisons. :cheers: not trying to master anyone, please remember that... |
Brodix makes a fine product as well.
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AFR 195 eliminators, bolt them on ,and hang on to your AZZ.
Finest heads I have ever owned, my 383 loves them |
I have the old version of the 195 head and I make about 570 hp on pump gas. I think the new 195 eliminator head is supposed to be good for another 25 to 30 hp.
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If you ask any high performance engine builder he will tell you the potential HP for any heads N/A and pump gas friendly. A simple math formula is used, cfm X2 so for the AFR 195's you get about 280cfm and you get about 560HP on an engine dyno.
This formula has been around for years and I believe it, my previous 406ci had Vic Jr heads that flowed 280cfm and made 548HP on an engine dyno To make more HP you up the compression and put in a bigger cam but it becomes "unstreetable" :thumbs: The 195 Eliminators are big numbers flowing heads you can get well north of 500HP with the correct parts. Don't be fooled by 195cc intake runner these are big heads and you have to match parts accordingly :cheers: |
Originally Posted by AnTra
(Post 1570056458)
IŽll say you are completely wrong regarding the AFR Eliminators. Joe Sherman made a 383-combo with exactly the 195 afr:s and managed to get out nearly 620hp out of it if i didnŽt remeber this wrong in a couple of hp or so. All for pump gas and all was at around 6400rpm so the 7000+ rpm wasnt even needed, ofcourse youŽll need to have all other parts top notch as well but iŽll figure out you do so...
The heads was also the regular race-ready not even the cnc-version of them so iŽll say go for the AFR:s they are KILLERS without comparisons. :cheers: not trying to master anyone, please remember that... |
I have new in the box Brodix SB Track 1 heads set up for roller cam.1400.00 shipped.
Also,before you pull the trigger whichever route that you go....shoot me a pm,and will beat all the big boy mail order companies on the Darts,Brodix,AFRs,Edelbrock,Worlds,etc.: thumbs: ANYTHING performance related...I carry,and will save you some coin.:cheers: |
Joe Sherman did it. Copied from another site.
The highlights below: 383ci 11:1 compression 259° @ 0.050" roller cam, 106° LSA AFR 195 heads (new design - out of the box) 850 BG carb Super Victor intake 91 octane pump fuel 615 HP @ 6700 RPM, 528 lbs/ft torque @ 5200 RPM |
i have new 195 eliminators on a 350 with a mild roller and 10.6-1cr with 770 holley and i dynoed 453@ crank.
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Originally Posted by L79racer
(Post 1570072803)
Joe Sherman did it. Copied from another site.
The highlights below: 383ci 11:1 compression 259° @ 0.050" roller cam, 106° LSA AFR 195 heads (new design - out of the box) 850 BG carb Super Victor intake 91 octane pump fuel 615 HP @ 6700 RPM, 528 lbs/ft torque @ 5200 RPM |
Originally Posted by steve dalla
(Post 1570073431)
i have new 195 eliminators on a 350 with a mild roller and 10.6-1cr with 770 holley and i dynoed 453@ crank.
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
(Post 1570073491)
Don't believe everything you read on the internet, they are good heads but really won't support 600+ HP, especially with 11:1 compression and pump gas. Dyno's can be setup to spit out any number you want :nono:
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Originally Posted by MotorHead
(Post 1570073491)
Don't believe everything you read on the internet, they are good heads but really won't support 600+ HP, especially with 11:1 compression and pump gas. Dyno's can be setup to spit out any number you want :nono:
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I think Motorhead and L79 Racer are actually both right or very close. Check this site out. It is the most comprehensive I have found and gives you flow numbers and projected maximum HP at 3 different build levels. Street High Performance, Competition and Pro Stock. Street High performance is a little over double the intake flow at the lift you run on almost everything tested. This would be under ideal, perfectly matched build specs which rarely happen. According to a flow bench test by David Vizard (on this chart) the AFR 195 eliminators flow 295 CFM @ .600 lift. and are capable of supporting 601 HP in a street high performance build.
These heads are incredible for a 195 head. The race version is insane for the port size. The AFR 195 Eliminators are far superior to any other 195 head made and actually out flow a lot of 200, 210 heads. The I/E ratio is one of the highest also. http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy |
Originally Posted by 63mako
(Post 1570077600)
According to a flow bench test by David Vizard (on this chart) the AFR 195 eliminators flow 295 CFM @ .600 lift. and are capable of supporting 601 HP in a street high performance build.
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm#Chevy |
Originally Posted by pauldana
(Post 1570078948)
The key word here is SUPPORTING....... It does not mean you will have this HP..I think it was gkall that had all the specifics.... but he showed that there was no N/A 383 doing 550HP... I will try and find that thread and post :lurk:
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This is a copy of a post from Beach Bum...
Something to think about..... if you add 15% to your chassis dyno numbers (by dividing .85) to get the flywheel, and then I create a 2500 rpm based upon the linear curve, and then for the 6500, assume that it just remains flat from 6000 to 6500 rpm.... your flywheel dyno numbers look like the below: rpm............TQ..........HP 2500..........555.........264 3000..........607.........347 3500..........626.........417 4000..........625.........476 4500..........616.........528 5000..........603.........574 5500..........567.........594 6000..........533.........609 6500..........492.........609 As you can see, out of your 383, world products, roller cam, edelbrock intake, 2" exhaust, your motor would be listed as a 609 HP @ 6000-6500 - 626 ftlbs @ 3500-4000 rpm..... As they do in the Engine Masters Challenge, they take the average tq and hp between 2500-6500 rpm, add them together, then divide by the cubic inches and then multiple by 1000 to get their final points score. In your case, your motor would have scored = 2797 points based upon your averaging right around 580 ftlbs & 490 HP....... The winning 2008 motor was built by Jon Kaase performance and was a 403 that averaged 558 ftlbs & 484 hp for a winning score of = 2587 points. Keeping in mind, they are pushing these motor to the brink using every one of their tricks to get that kind of power. This 403 motor came short of your 383 by over 20 ftlbs and 6 hp..... a huge number when in competition. The School of Automotive Machinists, led by Judson Massingill, had a 410 ci entry that squeezed out an average of 477 hp & 548 ftlbs.. 13 hp and over 30 ftlbs short of your 383......, their score was 2503 points and this was good enough for 3rd place in the competition. My point to all of this, if that dyno was working correctly, your motor is worth tens of thousandths of dollars.... just enter in a few engine competitions and you'll be bringing home the bacon. And based upon the instant celebrity fame the motor would get, you could probably market copies of the motor to the masses..... I know, I would be interested. The HP is very doable for a stout 383 with a roller cam that spins up..... over 600 hp is certainly nothing new with them. But, its the torque, only time I have seen that type of torque out of a sbc is with forced induction or nitrous.... even a 434 would be hard pressed to squeeze that torque out of it and if it did squeeze out 625+ ftlbs of torque down at 3500 rpm, its going to be sacrificing power up top...... Just food for thought..... So... no is my answer, not from a N/A motor with any torque |
Originally Posted by Al Davis
(Post 1570055990)
Hello, just pricing out some combo's. The Dart Pro 1 200 and the AFR 195 Eliminators are almost the same price. ($1,400). Both of these are very popular high quality performance heads. Which head is the best, do you even need such high performance heads for, say a 450hp 383 or a stout 355? All opinions welcome. :flag:
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