:bs:bsSomeone shows no interest in fixing a problem you tell him about. It's not very likely he will admit to finding a problem that he caused, either.

Sending the asset to the person is the worst thing you could do, as he now has the asset along with any proof of responsibility. What are the odds of getting it back from LME without paying him a ton of money for something ?

If the shop disagrees with a review by a disinterested third party, they appear to have something to hide. If they appear to have something to hide, I appear to not want to give them my business.

No, you're "just" a student. :rofl:

:iagree: Lost any potential business from me and anyone I know that mentions they are thinking about LME. I sure hope your line in the sand BS policy was worth it.

Say Tony, thanks for your post. I fully understand what you are saying, especially that first paragraph which is the sum of your position on the actual construction quality.

However, when you go on and say you've dealt with hundreds of engine builders, in what capacity would you describe that? As in, having these hundreds build engines for you?

I see you're in Houston. The engine builder is in that area. That's nice, and it's convenient in the event something should go wrong.

I don't doubt that the policy is what is stated by "Bryan" in his long piece on what is vs. what took place.

But seriously Tony, if you look at the responses from the "vendor" not only in the one post, but in the quotes of the OP and from the tuning/machine shop that was party to the engine analysis, what do you see? I see non-interest. I see non-concern. I see no forthright expression on the part of the builder that anything is wrong.

Based on that, I see no reason to ship at OP's expense, an engine, to have it "repaired" at OP's expense, and then shipped back at OP's expense. Or worse, shipped back at OP's expense, still broken. Do you see it differently?

So, instead of being spanked as you'd like to, let me repeat what I said before on this thread, which I believe is fair (I've added emphasis):

"It isn't about how right you do things. It's about when things go wrong, how do you try to make them right. The moral of this story is, read and comprehend.

And if you need a further example of how to do it right, in the face of when things go wrong, take a look at forum vendor MGW. I have. He knows how to make things right and KEEP his customers, and make new ones just from his word and deeds.

That's the real story of a businessman."

The real moral is finding someone who DEALS WITH YOU and YOUR ENGINE and YOUR troubles, instead of hanging on to past feats. Deal with the now, the person in front of you. That's the same failings Obama had with Joe the Plumber. He talked at Joe about other people's problems instead of talking to Joe about Joe and his needs. When talking to a person who may do work for you, are they talking to you about your stuff or are they talking at you, saying they can do your stuff because they've done so many others like it? It's a huge difference in attitudes. Those attitudes indicate future behaviors when the doodoo hits the fan. Anyone can claim to be great in times of success, but real greatness is measured in times of failure such as this. You don't point to past successes to belittle and hide failures. They failed to grasp the significance of your situation thinking it was typical new engine consumption based on their past experiences. They weren't HEARING you. Why? Utopian world view "But, it's not supposed to be that way!"

OP, sorry to hear about your ordeal and thanks for warning us.
Like most of the members said, LME SHOULD take care of this ASAP.
It's clear that the engine was defective, and LME is stating they can't honor the warranty because they didn't disassemble the engine?
So if I shoot someone and don't inspect the body myself, I ain't responsible for that?

I understand that LME stated in their warranty that a defective engine has to be returned for inspection, but if it's THIS clear, stepping up and offering the warranty would've saved themselves from getting a bad reputation like this.
LME, look at what happened.
An engine rebuild cost you this much.
Your future business will be greatly affected by how you treat this gentlemen.

Dan

The 427 I mentioned previously was all LME's fault. I think it ended up going back there a few times. They never did get it right, HKE had to fix it.

Hawaii, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Everyone understands the concept of a warranty and that the LME warranty specified that they wanted the engine shipped back to them in tact. I don't think that anyone will argue that point. But, it doesn't sound like the option of a warranty repair was ever offered up by LME even after multiple complaints from the OP. They should have stepped in and said ship the engine back at LMEs expense and they would fix it. I think the OP did the right thing going to another shop and was treated unfairly by LME. It seems like a very short sighted approach to running a business.

:iagree: that's exactly on point!! It's obvious from the photos what happened. Would having LME doing the tear down changed anything? Don't think so! Either you man up and do the right thing or you find excuses not to! It's really has simple as that... :thumbs:

Here is an example of covering warranty work with outstanding customer service.

One of my Corvette friend had an engine built by a local builder, when the engine started knocking the engine builder took the engine out, put another engine in so he would not be inconvienced and suffer no down time, due to the engine having a problem. Now this is customer service, the engine builder accepted full responsibility and my friend paid nothing more for the fix and the R&R of the engines. I know this was a local shop but mail order shops like LG Motorsports stands behind their work as well as vendors such as MGW, RPI and MarylandSpeed.

Not to hi jack this thread but having built nearly 1400 LSx engines now and with over a 1000 of them with Wiseco pistons as well I can say that anyone blaming Wiseco for any smoking issues isn't really too familiar with LSx pistons. Wiseco and Diamond were the ONLY two companies making LSx pistons right for some time and use very low taper skirts with fairly high break points that do NOT rock excessively with the LSx's family of shorter than normal bores at TDC or at BDC.

I've had to remove JE's that had literally 2.5 times the rock at TDC and 4 times the rock at BDC than the average D3 skirted Wiseco Forging or Diamonds and those particular JE piston LSx engines were sucking down nearly a quart of oil per 150 miles regularly and it was stopped when changing the engines over to Wisecos and Diamonds both.

I have no idea what the OPs problems are from whether heads or shortblock or whatever and I know LME is a competitor but I can also say that they do regularly build stuff with these same pistons that do not burn any oil at all as well so no matter what I wouldn't bad mouth any particular piston company based on a particular engine ad it's problems which may or may not even be related to the pistons.

FWIW the JE pistons I spec'd with the good guys at JE myself that actually asked about the relevant specs of the engines we did with their pistons have also performed flawlessly as well as have CP and Mahle too so I think the piston area and skirt profiles on these pistons are pretty ironed out by these very reputable companies and are not going to result in these issues in general. Moe is also great at Ross pistons as well.

Wiseco in fact is probably one of the largest and most experienced piston makers in the world behind Mahle. They alone in America have control over almost all their own metals and forgings and processes. They make the forgings for a great many of the other piston people were talking about beforehand and are considered world leaders in pistons from Formula cars to Superbiles to Pro Stock to NASCAR to even hobbyists like most of us. They didn't just fall off the turnip truck!

I don't think any one is blaming Wiesco. Any piston that isn't properly fitted into the bores ie; improper clearances will have issues. In the pictures its pretty obvious that there was an oil control issue with the pistons looking the way the do. Every piston had the same pattern of oil wash around the perimeter of the pistons. The oil usage issue was prevalent from the get go, LME just kept telling the OP to put more miles on it with every phone call, and the rest is history. The OPs local machine shop went back into the engine and installed custom made Arias pistons, the engine hasn't use a drop of oil since.

On anothe note a customer came in this last week with a set of Wiesco pistons that were to go into his LS7. The machine shop disassembled the engine and measured the bores to see if the new Wiescos would work in his engine. But his bore dimensions won't allow the use of these new pistons because once the machine shop hones the cylinders there would be excessive clearances of these pistons. So a new set of Diamonds that AA Corvette happened to have on hand that were .010 oversized are being sent in as replacements. I have a set of Wiescos in my old LT4 C4 that has a supercharged 383 in it, that engine has been in the car since 1996 and hasn't used any oil as well.

My role? My "role" is the same as just about everyone else who has posted here, just a third party observer with an opinion on the situation.

I understand his plight, and I think he approached the situation the wrong way. That is all. Here is where I think he made his mistake:

He didn't like how they responded, which I understand, but he assumes that LME is some evil, dishonest, company based on their reluctance to have the motor pulled and replaced on their tab. He assumes they will hide the evidence and say it was his fault, only because they were reluctant to have a motor pulled, shipped some 1200 miles away, and tear it down? That's a lot of money, and I would consider it a last resort after every other option has been exhausted. We haven't heard much back from the OP, so at this point I don't know how much effort was put into diagnosing the problem other than a post or two on here.


All LME asked is that they disassemble the engine. It's expressed up front, in writing. From what the OP said, I don't think LME denied him the option of sending back to them, it's more like the OP didn't even want to.

Compliance with the warranty doesn't seem like the worst option to me :) I guess we saw the odds of what happens when you don't comply with the warranty, I wonder what the odds would have been if he had? :smash:

Oh yes, I am "just" a student... :blueangel:

I know of that situation. If I remember correctly, LME saw that he had burned up some pistons.

I am "just a student", so I am no expert to say who is at fault on that one, but it seems something like that would be a tuning issue. In fact, I am just a third party hearing the "facts" secondhand, I can't really be sure what happened period.

I wonder if we can get some more info on what happened once the motor was disassembled? What was the actual piston-wall clearance? Was there water in the oil? Did the sleeves drop at all? I'm just curious if there are other potential causes of the pistons scuffing and rings failing like they did.

You're just not paying attention... are you ? LME, intentionally or not, kept him driving the bad motor until it was OUT of warranty.

You send it back to LME. You are now going to trust someone who ran out your warranty to admit they made a mistake. Then they have your engine.. they put a mechanic's lien on it for teardown costs and you never get it back.

They must teach optimism and blind faith at whatever school you actually attend. I hate to spoil all that for you, and while the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus may be real, the odds are they don't work at LME.

KCS, do these guys know that you used to work at LME? Have you mentioned that?

The 427 you talk of, why did it have to go back 2 times to LME? Can they not fix their "warranty" problems right the first time? Why is it, that when the motor was torn down by someone else, the rings were in UPSIDE down? Where is the quality control at that place?
This LS7 proves LME has a serious issue with building motors. Can they build a good motor, yes. Do they for all their customers, that would be no.