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Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568764054)
My role? My "role" is the same as just about everyone else who has posted here, just a third party observer with an opinion on the situation.
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Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568754649)
No, you're "just" a student. :rofl:
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568764153)
I know of that situation. If I remember correctly, LME saw that he had burned up some pistons.
I am "just a student", so I am no expert to say who is at fault on that one, but it seems something like that would be a tuning issue. In fact, I am just a third party hearing the "facts" secondhand, I can't really be sure what happened period.
Originally Posted by John Cocktosten
(Post 1568764655)
KCS, do these guys know that you used to work at LME? Have you mentioned that?
The 427 you talk of, why did it have to go back 2 times to LME? Can they not fix their "warranty" problems right the first time? Why is it, that when the motor was torn down by someone else, the rings were in UPSIDE down? Where is the quality control at that place? This LS7 proves LME has a serious issue with building motors. Can they build a good motor, yes. Do they for all their customers, that would be no. Now, we find out he's maybe a little more than "just a student????" No dog in the hunt, KCS, but a former EMPLOYEE? Nice to know....good form, as the Brits would say.. .. Really good. I think I'd call that a double beat-down.:smash::smash: I await your learned, and biased comments. :ack: :lol: |
"IF" KCS is in fact a former employee his credibility just went to ZERO in my book... END OF STORY!! :lurk:
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Originally Posted by Cruisers
(Post 1568731268)
A man's character is determined not by all the good he has done, but rather what he does when things go wrong. That's when his REAL character emerges.
While I do not think you can make every customer happy, I do think it is their responsibility to offer a solution to correct the problem. |
KCS, you are getting to sound more like a business partner at LME.
If you are a student you should ask for your money back as you really didn't learn anything. Why should the OP ever have to offer to send a defective motor back to the builder? That offer MUST come from the builder during the warranty and letting him know they will be covering the shipping as they stand behind their build. Like a broken record how do you trust a company that kept telling you this never happened before (this statement alone says that something was wrong with the engine and should have been taken back) keep driving it (so you take the engine out of warranty and we are out of our responsibility). Sorry since you didn't send us the engine we are not taking responsibility for the engine. (when did LME take responsibility for the engine....NEVER) I really hate to say but your trying to defend LME is making things worst for LME as nothing has been addressed. Just a bunch of BS. KCS best you have Bryan Neelen do his own dirty work rather then leaving it to his student who just made matters worst for LME. |
Originally Posted by Leprkon
(Post 1568764324)
You're just not paying attention... are you ? LME, intentionally or not, kept him driving the bad motor until it was OUT of warranty.
You send it back to LME. You are now going to trust someone who ran out your warranty to admit they made a mistake. Then they have your engine.. they put a mechanic's lien on it for teardown costs and you never get it back. They must teach optimism and blind faith at whatever school you actually attend. I hate to spoil all that for you, and while the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus may be real, the odds are they don't work at LME.
Originally Posted by peelrubber
(Post 1568764324)
I did not request/offer to return the motor to LME for their personal inspection...
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I've been following this thread since it started a couple of days ago and I know the OP didn't want to hear of any good experiences with
LME, but after seeing all the negativity here, I feel I need to add in my experience with LME. I ordered a 416 LS3 shortblock last Feb. from LME through my friend Pete at VMAX Motorsports in FL. Short block was delivered in May and we finally got around to installing it in mid July. In late August after a thorough, careful break-in, it spun a rod bearing at 1700 miles. Needless to say I was pretty upset, but proceeded to call Pete and then Bryan at LME and wound up dropping the motor out and sending it back to LME for diagnosis and repair. Once I got the motor out and pulled the pan off, it was obvious that the #2 rod bearing had spun. I crated up the short block and informed Bryan that it was on its way back to his shop. He called me once the crate arrived there and said he would take care of it right away and let me know what he found. During the time the short block was there, we spoke on numerous occasions and after about 3 weeks it was on its way back to me. While we never did determine exactly what the cause of the problem was, it was fixed and returned to me at no cost, even though it was technically out of warranty. All I am saying here is that I did follow LME's warranty policy and was taken care of. In my book, Bryan is a stand-up guy and doesn't deserve all of the "piling-on" going on here in this thread by people here who haven't had any experience with him and his shop. Car has been back together and running for a month now and 1k miles and the motor is running and sounding right. Just stating facts here, and no, I am not nor have I ever been an employee of LME! Jimbo |
Too much drama.
Ray Charles can see those pistons are f'd up. Top quality pistons - proper material, coated... precisely and tightly fitted... wouldn't have done that. Tight pistons make more power, burn less oil... Just check the piston to bore clearance on an LS9 or LS7, and take a peak at their piston coating... and how they build the engine with 5w30 synthetic for assembly and breakin. The piston coating allows you to fit the pistons real tight when new and not scuff. Modern honing and rings do just perfectly breaking in on synthetic. hmmm, how many vettes, Caddies.... roll off the line on synthetic. Send it back. If you don't get the situation resolved. Sue them. |
Originally Posted by John Cocktosten
(Post 1568764655)
KCS, do these guys know that you used to work at LME? Have you mentioned that?
The 427 you talk of, why did it have to go back 2 times to LME? Can they not fix their "warranty" problems right the first time? Why is it, that when the motor was torn down by someone else, the rings were in UPSIDE down? Where is the quality control at that place? This LS7 proves LME has a serious issue with building motors. Can they build a good motor, yes. Do they for all their customers, that would be no. With Justin's motor (whom I assume you have talked to) he was unhappy with what he got. I had nothing to do with that engine, so I can't speak specifically about what happened. From Justin's own accounts he was unhappy with the power the first time. It went back to LME, and LME paid for it. Came back and it still was not what he expected. While I believe MPH at the track is more indicative of power output, Justin was upset it hadn't run the e.t. he was expecting. The second time, Justin said that LME found that the pistons were burnt up (detonation). They split the difference, LME paid for labor and Justin bought a new set of pistons. This last one smoked and built crankcase pressure. Three strikes you're out I guess. I found out after the third try and contacted Justin to see if there was anything I could do to help him out. I also contacted Erik, to let me know what was wrong so I could try to set things right between the two parties. For the record, the TOP RINGS were "upside down". I don't know the ring pack that went in there, but most of the time it won't make a difference. Even Wiseco's instructions say that the top ring can be installed with the bevel facing either way without any effect. **Again, I am only repeating Justin and Erik's own accounts. I never even looked at the engine before or after all this happened.** |
KCS
Junior Member Member Since: Jan 2009 Location: Houston Texas Originally Posted by John Cocktosten View Post KCS, do these guys know that you used to work at LME? Have you mentioned that? The 427 you talk of, why did it have to go back 2 times to LME? Can they not fix their "warranty" problems right the first time? Why is it, that when the motor was torn down by someone else, the rings were in UPSIDE down? Where is the quality control at that place? This LS7 proves LME has a serious issue with building motors. Can they build a good motor, yes. Do they for all their customers, that would be no. Wow, someone did their homework, bravo! Yes, I worked at LME from Nov 07-Nov 08. "...someone did their homework..." I luv it! One of the first things a good lawyer sez is 'never volunteer information.' Good on you, KCS! You're really impressive. :ack::smash: Oh, I forgot to add: you've also given a tremendous impression of LME for those who care to read and understand this thread. |
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568764832)
Okay, I went back and re-read all of the posts. There was some confusion as to whether you work for LME or not. Apparently, you signed up on the forum for the sole purpose of defending LME. Maybe there is nothing to that - but I guess some folks took that and your defense of them as meaning you have ties to them.
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Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568766897)
KCS
Junior Member Member Since: Jan 2009 Location: Houston Texas Originally Posted by John Cocktosten View Post KCS, do these guys know that you used to work at LME? Have you mentioned that? The 427 you talk of, why did it have to go back 2 times to LME? Can they not fix their "warranty" problems right the first time? Why is it, that when the motor was torn down by someone else, the rings were in UPSIDE down? Where is the quality control at that place? This LS7 proves LME has a serious issue with building motors. Can they build a good motor, yes. Do they for all their customers, that would be no. Wow, someone did their homework, bravo! Yes, I worked at LME from Nov 07-Nov 08. "...someone did their homework..." I luv it! One of the first things a good lawyer sez is 'never volunteer information.' Good on you, KCS! You're really impressive. :ack::smash: Oh, I forgot to add: you've also given a tremendous impression of LME for those who care to read and understand this thread. |
Originally Posted by ZZOOM06
(Post 1568766598)
I've been following this thread since it started a couple of days ago and I know the OP didn't want to hear of any good experiences with
LME, but after seeing all the negativity here, I feel I need to add in my experience with LME. I ordered a 416 LS3 shortblock last Feb. from LME through my friend Pete at VMAX Motorsports in FL. Short block was delivered in May and we finally got around to installing it in mid July. In late August after a thorough, careful break-in, it spun a rod bearing at 1700 miles. Needless to say I was pretty upset, but proceeded to call Pete and then Bryan at LME and wound up dropping the motor out and sending it back to LME for diagnosis and repair. Once I got the motor out and pulled the pan off, it was obvious that the #2 rod bearing had spun. I crated up the short block and informed Bryan that it was on its way back to his shop. He called me once the crate arrived there and said he would take care of it right away and let me know what he found. During the time the short block was there, we spoke on numerous occasions and after about 3 weeks it was on its way back to me. While we never did determine exactly what the cause of the problem was, it was fixed and returned to me at no cost, even though it was technically out of warranty. All I am saying here is that I did follow LME's warranty policy and was taken care of. In my book, Bryan is a stand-up guy and doesn't deserve all of the "piling-on" going on here in this thread by people here who haven't had any experience with him and his shop. Car has been back together and running for a month now and 1k miles and the motor is running and sounding right. Just stating facts here, and no, I am not nor have I ever been an employee of LME! Jimbo Sorry Jimbo but your situation has a big difference in that Pete Incaudo / VMax Motorsports was your go between and he knows Bryan. If Bryan didn't correct your problem he wouldn't have referrals from Pete and would be committing business suicide. Jim count your blessing that Pete was involved in your case. |
Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568766897)
KCS
Junior Member Member Since: Jan 2009 Location: Houston Texas Originally Posted by John Cocktosten View Post KCS, do these guys know that you used to work at LME? Have you mentioned that? The 427 you talk of, why did it have to go back 2 times to LME? Can they not fix their "warranty" problems right the first time? Why is it, that when the motor was torn down by someone else, the rings were in UPSIDE down? Where is the quality control at that place? This LS7 proves LME has a serious issue with building motors. Can they build a good motor, yes. Do they for all their customers, that would be no. Wow, someone did their homework, bravo! Yes, I worked at LME from Nov 07-Nov 08. "...someone did their homework..." I luv it! One of the first things a good lawyer sez is 'never volunteer information.' Good on you, KCS! You're really impressive. :ack::smash: Oh, I forgot to add: you've also given a tremendous impression of LME for those who care to read and understand this thread. |
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568767011)
I hope that I have shown I can engage in a debate without resulting to childish insults.
"someone did their homework," "I luv it," "a good lawyer sez....," "...given a tremendous impression of LME..."----and you FEEL, or see an insult in those words? Have a nice day, KCS. You're wrong, but it's a good try to make me feel bad. I don't. :rofl: |
Thanks for the post, I headed off another LME engine sale from reading this post and have forwared it on to three other forums and to my friend in TX who was just about to pull the trigger with LME.
Great post, LME should learn how to deal with their customers in a more proactive manner or be gone.... |
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568767011)
I hope that I have shown I can engage in a debate without resulting to childish insults.
It is obvious you showed up to defend your past employer probably with his knowledge in a sorta sneaky manner. You and he, imo, are a joke and should be avoided for reason's made abundantly clear in this thread. |
Originally Posted by torch2000vert
(Post 1568767349)
Thanks for the post, I headed off another LME engine sale from reading this post and have forwared it on to three other forums and to my friend in TX who was just about to pull the trigger with LME.
Great post, LME should learn how to deal with their customers in a more proactive manner or be gone.... My point wasn't that mail order engines are bad in any way. The point is that if you deal locally you have a local point of contact, someone to go to with a problem. Especially if the shop is a local shop in good standing and have a good reputation. The shop that does my machine work has been in business for 50+ years, it has been run by the same family since Grandpa started it which was handed down to his son, and later to his grandson. |
Like I teach my sons, a man is only as good as his word and reputation. Some outfits just don't understand customer service, or the price they'll pay for not providing it.
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Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568767537)
I had it posted in the LS1tech forum in the NW regional section, it got some local vendor there all pissed off because I had worded it as a warning about mail order engines, because he dealed in mail order engines he got his panties in a wad and a war of words ensued, later the thread was totally deleted. It got me so riled up that I am in the plans of becoming a sponsor with the board just so I can openly compete and outsell him within the local area, he is one of those guys that sells out of his home and claims XX years of experience when his only experience is with modding his personal car. :lol:
My point wasn't that mail order engines are bad in any way. The point is that if you deal locally you have a local point of contact, someone to go to with a problem. Especially if the shop is a local shop in good standing and have a good reputation. The shop that does my machine work has been in business for 50+ years, it has been run by the same family since Grandpa started it which was handed down to his son, and later to his grandson. I guess KCS tucked his tail and headed home to tell Bryan that he screwed up the business. What gets me is if LME was really concerned Bryan would be here defending the business and the only thing he did was to copy and paste his policy. |
After giving this thread some more thought, and going back and reading part of it- I have a question. I'm sorry if it's in here already and I missed it.
The OP says he bought and LS7 short block. But then there is a lot of talk about the pistons and rings used. If it were actually a LS7 short block - that implies to me that it is actually bought from GM and would already have the pistons, rods etc installed by GM. |
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568776706)
After giving this thread some more thought, and going back and reading part of it- I have a question. I'm sorry if it's in here already and I missed it.
The OP says he bought and LS7 short block. But then there is a lot of talk about the pistons and rings used. If it were actually a LS7 short block - that implies to me that it is actually bought from GM and would already have the pistons, rods etc installed by GM. |
Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568777079)
OP quote from first post: "In lieu of buying a crate motor from GM, I ordered a forged balanced/blueprinted LS7 short block from LME in January of 2008. "
Is this engine an LS7 short block, or is it simply a 427 built by LME? All the discussion of what pistions it has in it, and how the rings were installed is in conflict with calling it an LS7 short block. |
I understand. But GM perf parts sells bare blocks.(http://gmperformancepartszone.com/ba...ds-p-5995.html)
Or, this ad from HPSales in Fla. just this past month describing the forged LS7 they're building and the stock LS7 they're selling. (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...-for-sale.html) Or, this ad from GM a small block LS7 fully built out. (http://gmhorsepower.com/LS7-Zo6.php) So yes it is confusing and maybe OP will comment on it. My take on it is that this was an LS7-based engine, fully built by the engine builder and shipped. Not a true "small block" in the traditional definition of the term. |
Wow..... read the entire thread. To the OP, that is just a terrible trajedy and thank you for sharing. As mentioned before, the first phone call from the OP to LME about the oil consumption should've ended with LME saying "send it back" period. They (LME) chose the path that this story followed. In closing, shifter from MGW and 402 from a vendor other than LME. This is why I wait so long to purchase parts. This was a 5K motor and a business's reputation on the line!! Imagine their profit margin considering the "thousands of LS motors they've built". Compare that with the small profit margin on an aftermarket shifter from MGW. That is a business run by a man who cares. I may buy 2 shifters from him, one for my father just b/c I feel good supporting honest hardworking people.
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Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568764054)
My role? My "role" is the same as just about everyone else who has posted here, just a third party observer with an opinion on the situation.
Originally Posted by John Cocktosten
(Post 1568764655)
KCS, do these guys know that you used to work at LME? Have you mentioned that?
The 427 you talk of, why did it have to go back 2 times to LME? Can they not fix their "warranty" problems right the first time? Why is it, that when the motor was torn down by someone else, the rings were in UPSIDE down? Where is the quality control at that place? This LS7 proves LME has a serious issue with building motors. Can they build a good motor, yes. Do they for all their customers, that would be no.
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568767011)
I hope that I have shown I can engage in a debate without resulting to childish insults.
To the OP, I hope you can get a fair resolution from LME. |
Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568778428)
I understand. But GM perf parts sells bare blocks.(http://gmperformancepartszone.com/ba...ds-p-5995.html)
Or, this ad from HPSales in Fla. just this past month describing the forged LS7 they're building and the stock LS7 they're selling. (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...-for-sale.html) Or, this ad from GM a small block LS7 fully built out. (http://gmhorsepower.com/LS7-Zo6.php) So yes it is confusing and maybe OP will comment on it. My take on it is that this was an LS7-based engine, fully built by the engine builder and shipped. Not a true "small block" in the traditional definition of the term. 319-T5 aluminum block with pressed-in iron sleeves Production oiling system 6-bolt 'dowel located' steel main bearing caps 9.240 deck height For use with any LS series head 4.125" finished bore (104.78mm) deck plate honed Siamese cylinder bores for larger bore sizes No provision for 'Active Fuel Management' Fully machined with caps and pressed-in liners Limited availability Perfect for racing dry-sump applications Made to LS7 production standards for machining and cleanliness Based on C5R block development Tested to over 500hp ! I'm only pointing all of this out because it gives pause as to how these folks - both the sites above, and LME might be taking liberties with what they are actually selling. I don't care if it's not the real one or not, as long as it's being properly represented for what it is. |
Hmm, you could be right. I hadn't read down that far on the list of specs....:lol:
Does leave it open to interpretation. |
Originally Posted by LonestarZ
(Post 1568767097)
:smash: busted. When people have nothing to hide, they might as well come out of the closet and state who they are. Getting discovered after the fact speaks volumes for the situation.
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Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568767195)
You feel insulted by the statement of facts? I'm shocked, shocked!
"someone did their homework," "I luv it," "a good lawyer sez....," "...given a tremendous impression of LME..."----and you FEEL, or see an insult in those words? Have a nice day, KCS. You're wrong, but it's a good try to make me feel bad. I don't. :rofl: |
Originally Posted by Fastcar
(Post 1568767508)
What you have shown is that your not as good as you thought you were.
It is obvious you showed up to defend your past employer probably with his knowledge in a sorta sneaky manner. You and he, imo, are a joke and should be avoided for reason's made abundantly clear in this thread. Again, I have not come in here to defend anyone. I have not said ANYTHING about LME, other than repeating my own experiences with them and what I have seen them do in warranty situations. I came in here under my own will to give my opinion on the situation the OP is in. |
Originally Posted by RRVettes
(Post 1568779461)
KCS: Anyone can debate. But a meaningful debate includes some level of trust and credibility through disclosure to avoid the perception of hidden agendas. Too late.
To the OP, I hope you can get a fair resolution from LME. My screen name is not "bryan@lme", it's not "pecos@lme", and it is certainly not "KCS@lme", it's simply KCS. I do not reperesent LME. I left there months ago and haven't really spoken with them since. My posts are simply opinions that are my own, based on experiences that are my own, without any direct influence from any person at LME. If you want to talk credibility, my opinion on this matter is based off several instances I have witnessed myself of how Bryan and Pecos take care of unsatisfied customers, local and abroad. The rest of you have based your opinion off of a single post, in which you have really only heard one side of the story. I cannot, nor have not said who was right or wrong in this ordeal, but just where I think a decision was made which led to the OP's dissatisfaction. I apologize if it seems I had something to hide, I do not. If anyone would have asked how I knew about certain instances, I would have answered that I worked there. Hell, people thought I was their attorney :lol:. Anyways, we can continue on if you all like, or if you have any more insults for me, you can send me a pm. |
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568780353)
Busted? I have been 100% truthful. If anyone had asked, I would have said yes I worked there. I never denied working there, or even given the impression I didn't. In fact, I said I have seen instances regarding warranties first hand.
Here is your first post ever on the forum... "I think you make a great point. I sympathize for the OP, but had he followed instructions expressed in writing, he probably wouldn't have these issues. When I read that he took it to a different shop for analysis, it seemed he had his mind made up about them already. " And before I continue, let the record show that as of right now, you have 22 posts on the forum, and all 22 are on this thread. And there is no indication that you own a Corvette, so I think it's pretty safe to say that someone lead you to this post for the sole purpose of standing up for LME. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it. Now, moving on and back to your comment above. The OP states that when he became aware of the oil consumption problem, he did call LME right away and was told to keep driving it a while. Seeing as how he lives in Portland (don't feel like looking it up, but let's call it 2,000 miles from Houston) I don't think it's unreasonable that he elected to take it to a local shop for examination. Pulling an engine out of a car, crating it and shipping it 2,000 miles just for an exam as to why it's burning oil is more than just a bit of a hassle, wouldn't you agree? Under those circumstances, I think the right approach for LME would have been to ask who he is using in Portland, and LME should have called them and discussed a course of action. Certainly, even LME should have understood that the cost of shipping the engine both ways would have been very expensive relative to what it would have cost LME to reimburse a local shop to perform any needed work. I really don't care if you are a student, or a lawyer or whatever. But you have to accept that this is a forum that by it's very nature will be a place to debate the good, the bad and the ugly. Not everyone's opinion will be the right opinion, but that does not deny them the right to an opinion. And I'm the first to say that goes for you as well. |
:toetap:Sorry to hear about this I personally hate the runaround and BS places like this treat their customers. That's why it is great that we have a forum here to warn others.
I will never give this place any business after hearing things like this. Thanks for the info:thumbs: |
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568780763)
Would I had been recieved as having anymore credibility if I had said right off the bat that I worked there? Honestly? In hindsight, I don't think it would have mattered either way.
My screen name is not "bryan@lme", it's not "pecos@lme", and it is certainly not "KCS@lme", it's simply KCS. I do not reperesent LME. I left there months ago and haven't really spoken with them since. My posts are simply opinions that are my own, based on experiences that are my own, without any direct influence from any person at LME. If you want to talk credibility, my opinion on this matter is based off several instances I have witnessed myself of how Bryan and Pecos take care of unsatisfied customers, local and abroad. The rest of you have based your opinion off of a single post, in which you have really only heard one side of the story. I cannot, nor have not said who was right or wrong in this ordeal, but just where I think a decision was made which led to the OP's dissatisfaction. I apologize if it seems I had something to hide, I do not. If anyone would have asked how I knew about certain instances, I would have answered that I worked there. Hell, people thought I was their attorney :lol:. Anyways, we can continue on if you all like, or if you have any more insults for me, you can send me a pm. |
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568778041)
Bill, as you know, that is my point. What part of it is actually an LS7? LS7 is a General Motors designation for the Z06 engine. "Short block" is an age old terminology for an engine that is supplied with everything from the heads down.
Is this engine an LS7 short block, or is it simply a 427 built by LME? All the discussion of what pistions it has in it, and how the rings were installed is in conflict with calling it an LS7 short block. The OP could have just purchased a LS7 fitted block from GM. To convert to a wet sump, one has to either use a 1" spacer on the crank and a LS2 oil pump, or shorten the crank snout by 1" and install the LS2 oil pump, pick up, balancer and drill the block for the dipstick. At the time the OP figured it was easier to use LME. Knowing what we know now, he would have been way ahead to have purchased a GM unit, diassemble, balance, blueprint the engine and do the LS2 drysump conversion at the local machine shop. If it had been done that way I doubt we would have seen any oil usage issues. We all know that the GM LS7 has its own set of issues from breaking valves and springs to dry sump oiling issues. |
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568781322)
I'm willing on accepting that your posts have been above board and you have no hidden agenda. At the same time, I think a review and some common sense is in order.
Here is your first post ever on the forum... "I think you make a great point. I sympathize for the OP, but had he followed instructions expressed in writing, he probably wouldn't have these issues. When I read that he took it to a different shop for analysis, it seemed he had his mind made up about them already. " And before I continue, let the record show that as of right now, you have 22 posts on the forum, and all 22 are on this thread. And there is no indication that you own a Corvette, so I think it's pretty safe to say that someone lead you to this post for the sole purpose of standing up for LME. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it.
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568781322)
Now, moving on and back to your comment above. The OP states that when he became aware of the oil consumption problem, he did call LME right away and was told to keep driving it a while.
Seeing as how he lives in Portland (don't feel like looking it up, but let's call it 2,000 miles from Houston) I don't think it's unreasonable that he elected to take it to a local shop for examination. Pulling an engine out of a car, crating it and shipping it 2,000 miles just for an exam as to why it's burning oil is more than just a bit of a hassle, wouldn't you agree?
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568781322)
Under those circumstances, I think the right approach for LME would have been to ask who he is using in Portland, and LME should have called them and discussed a course of action. Certainly, even LME should have understood that the cost of shipping the engine both ways would have been very expensive relative to what it would have cost LME to reimburse a local shop to perform any needed work.
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568781322)
I really don't care if you are a student, or a lawyer or whatever. But you have to accept that this is a forum that by it's very nature will be a place to debate the good, the bad and the ugly. Not everyone's opinion will be the right opinion, but that does not deny them the right to an opinion. And I'm the first to say that goes for you as well.
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Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568764054)
My role? My "role" is the same as just about everyone else who has posted here, just a third party observer with an opinion on the situation.
I'm curious to know if this is a deliberate evasion of full disclosure or simply an error of omission. Third party observer or not, as a former employee you do have an affiliation with the business which should be disclosed up front. Other forum members should not have to "do their homework" to discover who you are and call you out. As a "student", learn that. |
Originally Posted by DaveMcC
(Post 1568784025)
So am I to assume that "just about everyone else who has posted here" is a former employee of LME?
I'm curious to know if this is a deliberate evasion of full disclosure or simply an error of omission. Third party observer or not, as a former employee you do have an affiliation with the business which should be disclosed up front. Other forum members should not have to "do their homework" to discover who you are and call you out. As a "student", learn that. I have biology, english, history, psychology, and algebra. In what class am I supposed to learn "internet etiquette"? |
I am only a spectator reading this thread about lousy customer service from LME.
I would never do business with LME after reading this post. I believe KCS is speaking for LME. KCS is a new member and has only posted to this thread….hmmmmmm. Just my thoughts. |
Originally Posted by KET1960
(Post 1568785234)
I am only a spectator reading this thread about lousy customer service from LME.
I would never do business with LME after reading this post. I believe KCS is speaking for LME. KCS is a new member and has only posted to this thread….hmmmmmm. Just my thoughts. |
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568782627)
You are only about half right. I don't have a corvette. Someone posted a link on LS1tech.com for everyone to see. The post was consequently deleted as far as I can tell. I was obviously curious as to what was going on, so I came in to see what had happened. I had no intentions of defending LME, nor do I feel I have done so as of yet. I just agreed with "BradenW", and saw a lot of bandwagon bashing.
I agree it is a major hassle. Putting myself in a shop owner's position, I could understand why one in such a position would be reluctant to have the engine pulled and shipped back. However, I was not involved in any of the conversations betwen the two parties, but based on the limited info provided I think the OP should have requested/demanded LME take the engine back (per warranty instructions) instead of making the decision for the other shop to do it. I agree as well. I don't know how the conversation went, but I think a better solution could've been made through a little more discussion. The warranty expressed by LME says that the engine is to be returned to them to be dissassembled. Whether or not the buyer can meet or is willing to meet these conditions, is a something the buyer must consider in deciding where to purchase an engine before the purchase is made. I wouldn't deny anyone an opinion, nor would I say who's is right or wrong. Opinons are never right or wrong, which makes them opinions. Opinions are always open to debate, and places like this are where they are debated. I enjoy debates, but not when the other parties resort to insults to prove a point. :nono: It's ironic how an attorney will attack a witness' credibility when they cannot refute their testimony...
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568784549)
If you like, you can chalk it up to an "error of omission". I am an individual, a seperate entity from LME, and I have an exceptional ability to form my own opinion based on situations presented in front of me. If you haven't gotten the hint yet, the opinions expressed by me in this thread are of my own and not what anyone at LME wants me to say. Therefore, I see no need to disclose any "affiliation" you think may exists to the members of this board, before I press any other key.
I have biology, english, history, psychology, and algebra. In what class am I supposed to learn "internet etiquette"? "...and saw a lot of bandwagon bashing." You may not know this but it is difficult to know who you really are "talking to" on the internet, such as this forum. There may be, and in fact are, many very experienced people in these threads. Not all of them have worked for LME-type organizations, but they HAVE worked in a variety of places, in many capacities, and have life and work experience that make them well qualified to talk about warranties, customer service, how to deal with problems, etc. If you don't agree with that, move on to the next one. "The warranty expressed by LME says that the engine is to be returned to them to be disassembled. " I, and others, have come across merchandise and businesses that require that items be returned. Generally, we understand those items to be easily shipped, NOT engines. However, that may very well be the warranty as stated by "Bryan" of LME in his singular post to this thread. In that respect, I find it hard to believe that LME, as other engine builders have done, doesn't or won't cooperate with a more local builder to have them work together to look at what is wrong, or going wrong with the engine. Other shops do it, and since you've been an employee of LME, you probably know this from an industry-insider perspective. If you don't, consider it information passed along. Still, if you don't agree with the above, let's go on. "Opinons are never right or wrong, which makes them opinions. Opinions are always open to debate, and places like this are where they are debated." Since I don't want to insult you, let's agree to disagree. Opinions are NOT "never right or wrong." They may be a statement of fact expressed as an opinion. But anything can be debated, even facts. Still, you and I may be in disagreement on the subject of opinions. "If you haven't gotten the hint yet, the opinions expressed by me in this thread are of my own and not what anyone at LME wants me to say. Therefore, I see no need to disclose any "affiliation" you think may exists to the members of this board, before I press any other key." Personally, my opinion, and seemingly quite a few independent others on this thread, do not see your opinions as solely your own and not influenced by your former employer---of a mere 2 months ago. Your judgment to not disclose your affiliation is your judgment, and in my opinion, it was a mistake. It may have given the impression that it clouded your objectivity. That's another way of saying some people now may not believe all or part of what you say, but don't get insulted by that statement. That's their opinion. Finally, what you may be able to agree with me, or others on is the "impression" given by the admittedly one-sided post of the OP. The impression, which is very important at least to me and to the several others who read this thread, is that the company didn't care. They didn't care about this one, lone, car owner who happened to be a customer. To my knowledge, no one likes to feel like they don't count, that their $5K or $10K or whatever the heck it cost, is immaterial to a business. That IS the "impression" I got. And if you, sitting as an independent, objective observer don't get that impression, what can I say? I mean, just look at the one post by LME on this thread---#34. Therefore, sitting as that independent, objective observer, why would anyone send the engine back, at their own expense? Why would you, or I, or the OP expect that the company is in any way, going to own up to mistakes, and pay for the repairs? Did they say that as repeated by the OP? Did they say that, as posted by "Bryan?" Why would the OP then be stuck with: A) you can have LME fix it at your expense, and ship it back to you at your expense since there's nothing wrong with the engine, or B) ship the engine back, still broken, at OP's expense? Truly, I hope none of this has insulted you, or offended your sense of forum camaraderie. I will say that internet etiquette ("In what class am I supposed to learn "internet etiquette"?") is the same thing as decency, common courtesy and when we can curb our tendency to fly off the handle, a bit of the "golden rule." I hope we CAN agree on the sentence above. |
Originally Posted by KET1960
(Post 1568785234)
I am only a spectator reading this thread about lousy customer service from LME.
I would never do business with LME after reading this post. I believe KCS is speaking for LME. KCS is a new member and has only posted to this thread….hmmmmmm. Just my thoughts. |
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568782627)
You are only about half right. I don't have a corvette. Someone posted a link on LS1tech.com for everyone to see. The post was consequently deleted as far as I can tell. I was obviously curious as to what was going on, so I came in to see what had happened. I had no intentions of defending LME, nor do I feel I have done so as of yet. I just agreed with "BradenW", and saw a lot of bandwagon bashing....
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568782627)
I agree it is a major hassle. Putting myself in a shop owner's position, I could understand why one in such a position would be reluctant to have the engine pulled and shipped back. However, I was not involved in any of the conversations betwen the two parties, but based on the limited info provided I think the OP should have requested/demanded LME take the engine back (per warranty instructions) instead of making the decision for the other shop to do it. ...
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568781322)
Under those circumstances, I think the right approach for LME would have been to ask who he is using in Portland, and LME should have called them and discussed a course of action. Certainly, even LME should have understood that the cost of shipping the engine both ways would have been very expensive relative to what it would have cost LME to reimburse a local shop to perform any needed work.
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568782627)
I agree as well. I don't know how the conversation went, but I think a better solution could've been made through a little more discussion. The warranty expressed by LME says that the engine is to be returned to them to be dissassembled. Whether or not the buyer can meet or is willing to meet these conditions, is a something the buyer must consider in deciding where to purchase an engine before the purchase is made....
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568782627)
I wouldn't deny anyone an opinion, nor would I say who's is right or wrong. Opinons are never right or wrong, which makes them opinions. Opinions are always open to debate, and places like this are where they are debated. I enjoy debates, but not when the other parties resort to insults to prove a point. :nono: It's ironic how an attorney will attack a witness' credibility when they cannot refute their testimony...
|
[QUOTE=KCS;1568780475]As good as I thought I was? What exactly did you mean by that?
QUOTE] A BS'er. |
Threads like this never bode well for the vendor's longevity. Poor customer service is the demise of many companies that are otherwise good.
|
OP’s Closing Remarks
Well, I didn’t anticipate that my thread would be a catalyst in generating this level of controversy and debate. I appreciate reading the comments from ALL camps. This has been educational and also entertaining despite some of the interpersonal bashing which, fortunately, has been restrained and more civilized in comparison to some threads in the recent past. Remember the QM600 camshaft war and the APS TT vendor battle with DTE?
I hoped that my thread would elicit detailed responses from other disgruntled customers. That has not happened. Either such customers do not exist in numbers; or they prefer privacy, which I respect; or they are not aware of this thread. If there are only a few disgruntled customers out there, then I commend LME for following through. From reading a few posts, there are uncorroborated second-hand reports that LME has even stepped up and resolved suspicious claims submitted by abusive customers. But that certainly does not apply to me. So am I merely a single solitary unhappy customer among thousands of satisfied customers? Or am I just the only one that speaks up? It bears mentioning that, other than for my own, I have not bashed LME for their product. However, some posters have reacted independently in that manner and had temporarily pushed this thread off course. My point, please reread my original post if necessary, is that IMO I received a defective product that was not getting any better and the vendor persisted to ignore my need for timely corrective action or assurance of follow-up effort on their part. I can understand a vendor’s perspective in protecting itself from abusive, unjustified and unreasonable claims from customers. Thus, I understand a vendor’s requirement that goods be returned to them for self-examination. But heading down a one-way street can be risky, and as many of you have so eloquently stated: the possibility of a unilateral/non-appealable decision favoring a vendor. Thanks for understanding my position and supporting me. Now, some respondents have criticized me for not shipping the engine back to the vendor in Texas for their analysis. But to me, that is not a predominant issue either. “You had to have been there” to realize the diminishing level of confidence with each phone call placed to the vendor. Each episode was perceived by me as a disinterested “Take an aspirin and call back in a few days.” A few days after the conference call with LME, I was reconciled to the fact that I would not recover my loss and had to absorb 100% the R & R costs. Thereafter I continued to dwell on the absence of customer service. My thread was posted as a result of frustration which continues to this moment. I was hoping that others would elaborate on their unfortunate situations so that LME would come online to rationalize its positions. That has not occurred and apparently will not happen. At most I was expecting a public apology from LME. At the least, I had hoped that LME would acknowledge the circumstances and offer some words of appeasement acceptable to both parties but apparently that is not going to happen either. You know, the “I could have done this, or they could have done that.” They merely posted a boilerplate warranty and statement without candidly addressing me or the other CF members. I’m not interested in the warranty terms. That subject has long since passed. To reiterate, my complaint is lack of customer service. We are all fortunate to be members within this community, consumers and vendors alike. The consumers enjoy their hobby, expensive that it is, and the vendors make a living. Some individuals have it both ways. They operate a business that has also become a productive hobby. It’s no fun when unpleasant events occur. There are few threads such as this one on CF. That speaks highly of the relationship among CF members and CF-sponsoring vendors. We need to move on. I’ve written enough, the postings have leveled off, the warriors have battled, and this thread seems to be dying. I would like to individually thank each person that contributed valid and logical viewpoints to the discussion whether you are pro or against. But that would take too long. You know who you are. Thanks. Moderator: Please lock this thread. |
I, for one, want to thank you for posting this. Whenever I am in the market for upgrading my engine, LME won't even make the list.
Too few people speak up against vendors who screw customers over. |
Thats suks man
sorry to hear although i heard about it long time ago when i was in the shop it was parked there for a long time hope u get everything fixed before the spring.
Originally Posted by peelrubber
(Post 1568677756)
I’m posting this as a public service to the gearhead community so that others can avoid the unfortunate experience I had with Late Model Engines (LME) of Houston, TX.
In lieu of buying a crate motor from GM, I ordered a forged balanced/blueprinted LS7 short block from LME in January of 2008. As many of you know, LME is an established engine builder with a reputable record among the hot rodding community. With regard to LME’s warranty coverage, the technical and legal aspects are not discussed herein. Suffice it to say that LME offered to “take care” of me after a standard 90-day warranty period for any build defect. I was comfortable with LME’s coverage as it is generally in line with warranties offered by other vendors. In fact, other vendors’ warranties might be more restrictive, yet their customers are treated fairly. As an example, I understand Texas Speed does not warranty their engines unless installed at their own facility. Yet, for an off-site installation, Texas Speed would stand behind an issue caused by unsatisfactory workmanship. I’ve read many posts on CF where numerous vendors stepped up to the plate to “take care” of their customers. On the other side of the spectrum, vendors such as SDPC and Pace have liberal warranties, yet they will continue to accommodate customers after a liberal policy period has technically expired. This policy is very equitable particularly when a major build defect is involved. As background, my new engine was properly broken in by my tuner who is reputable and well known. Prior to initial startup, PCM maps from a similarly equipped LS7 were uploaded, the fuel system was charged and pressurized, and the engine fired up immediately, thereby no fuel wash occurred. Break-in oil was non-synthetic Castrol GTX 10W30 as recommended by LME for the first 1000 miles. Before driving on the road, the engine was run up and down to mid-RPMs on a Mustang dyno (inertia load) in order to apply ring pressure against the fresh bores during both accel/decel phases. Car has never been tracked, engine never abused. There are no oil leaks and not a single oil stain on the garage floor. Well, at 600 miles the DIC advises me to check the oil level. So I top it off with 1.5+ quarts as needed. That didn’t seem abnormal, as I had anticipated some oil consumption during the break-in period. But at the 1,000 mile mark, which is just 400 miles down the road, I had to add another quart. This consumption rate continued to the tune of one quart of oil every 400 to 600 miles. I mentioned this to LME several times, and each time their response was “put on a few more miles.” By this time, the warranty period had already lapsed. During latter discussions, LME’s repeated responses were “I can’t think of anything that would cause this.” And “we’ve built many of these engine combinations without any problems.” Finally, 8 months later with 6,000 miles on the new engine, I had the LS7 pulled for diagnosis. I notified LME that I was going to have my tuner and a local machine shop (in Portland) pull the motor to trace the oil consumption problem. (I did not request/offer to return the motor to LME for their personal inspection. I was already unimpressed with LME’s apathetic response to date. In the end, that proved to be the correct decision because LME’s possession of the block would have provided them with leverage to charge me for the cost of suspect inferior new parts. As mentioned below, LME’s policy - as it was stated to me - is to provide only warranty “labor services”. LME’s policy does not cover the cost of replacement parts such as new rings or pistons.) The local machinist determined that the pistons were rocking in their bores thereby causing the ring lands to become skewed unsquarely against the bores. The result was oil wash entering the combustion chamber. Refer to the first pic below. In area “A” there are deep parallel gouges and striations along the piston skirt. In area “B” there is significant/severe wear at the bottom edge of the piston skirt. In area “C” just above the rings is evidence of oil wash. (Note: the actual damage is worse than what you can see in these pics.) http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...riationsxL.jpg http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...tDamagexLX.jpg http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...3PICT0040x.jpg http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...4PICT0044x.jpg Pic Below: I use a GZ Motorsports vacuum pump to purge crankcase blowby gases to atmosphere. The intake tract has been isolated from oil ingestion commonly occurring with the LS series engines. Thus, the carbon buildup on the pistons is not from intake oil ingestion. http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...SideViewxL.jpg http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u.../6TopViewx.jpg I arranged a conference call among my Portland machinist, LME and myself. The technical aspects of the discussion were above my head and primarily focused on piston design and ring integrity. But a discussion of any probable root cause was irrelevant. It seems that LME had already made a decision prior to the conference call, so the points of discussion fell onto deaf ears. LME reiterated “We’ve built and assembled many of these engine combinations with no problems.” LME’s statement is hardly justification to absolve itself of any responsibility for a defective product. Analogy? GM has built many great Z06’s. But a lemon occasionally passes through. Example: a Seattle GM dealership sold a problematic Z06 to a customer. After many months of troubleshooting at the dealership, GM HQ eventually agreed to pull the engine for examination. Diagnosis: elliptically shaped bores. Result: GM did the right thing and replaced the engine. The moral of this story: GM did not rest on its laurels; GM did not take the position that their success in building thousands of identical LS7s precluded them from the possibility of producing a single defective engine. GM stepped up to the plate and accepted responsibility for a freak engine. I asked LME to help me out. The R&R was going to be expensive. My request was open ended, and I was hoping for a reasonable response. After an uncomfortable silent pause during the conference call, I specifically asked for reimbursement for new pistons. Nada. LME policy is labor only, no parts, but a re-hone was available. WTH? Labor cost of a fresh hone is negligible, and was an insultingly “token” offer to me. Hell, the roundtrip cost of freight makes no sense whether the customer or vendor picked up the shipping cost. It’s more practical, logistically and economically, for a mere re-hone to be done locally. Finally, as a polite and graceful means of exiting the discussion, I asked if LME would contact Wiseco about piston design. LME would only offer to forward the pistons to Wiseco for assessment. (Wiseco would accept RM requests only from vendors.) Otherwise, LME was not willing to intervene on my behalf. The burden of proof would be entirely on my shoulders. (Fault me for not following thru with Wiseco, but my expectation was that the piston manufacturer would treat me no better than I was treated by LME.) I had to bear the entire R&R cost of a fluke engine. Yep, I was fluked!! To emphasize, I do NOT want to hear from satisfied LME customers. In my view, a good product or the rendition of satisfactory services are normal expectations. Customers pay to attain these expectations. There is nothing special about normal results. And kudos and accolades have their own time and place when the product or service is excellent. I’m sure there are many satisfied LME customers out there. But that doesn’t ameliorate the fact that “exceptions” do occur and a few customers get screwed and tossed out into the cold. If post-sale warranty service isn’t necessary because 99% of customers are satisfied, how hard is it for a vendor to offer a reasonable amount of time, effort, resources and finances to assist the unfortunate/infrequent 1% that happened to receive a bad batch of rings, poorly designed pistons or substandard machine work? I may be soft-spoken with an easygoing personality. But LME has misjudged me. I’m not laying down or going away. *****I’d like to hear from all the “exceptions” out there. If you are dissatisfied with LME, and your issue with LME has not been equitably resolved, please post your experience here. ***** Considering your circumstances and the urge to rant, please be as factual and as objective as you can possibly be. If you know of anyone on other forums (F-Body, LS1-Tech, Digital Vettes, SmokinVette, etc.) having issues with LME, please link them to this post or vice versa. Moderators: Please advise if this is against the rules. Footnote: My LS7, rebuilt by my local machinist with custom Arias pistons, and installed by my tuner, no longer has an oil consumption issue. FWIW, query why the rebuilt motor does not consume oil? And my machinist has given me a 12-month, 12,000 mile warranty. Footnote: I’ve been informed, admittedly through hearsay and second-hand information, that many LME engines allegedly have ring issues. If this is true, and you are a victim, please post up here. Footnote: A CF vendor, Jeff @ TPE, has emailed me. He has severed ties with LME. Jeff, I hope that you would elaborate here. |
Originally Posted by v502
(Post 1568789629)
Thats suks man
sorry to hear although i heard about it long time ago when i was in the shop it was parked there for a long time hope u get everything fixed before the spring. Please edit and delete the pics so we can read WITHOUT SCROLLING SIDE TO SIDE. :cheers: |
Originally Posted by need-for-speed
(Post 1568794325)
GEEZ - why did you have to quote the OP and his oversized pics. We already saw his pics.
Please edit and delete the pics so we can read WITHOUT SCROLLING SIDE TO SIDE. :cheers: |
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568794363)
I know how much you "hate" that:lol:
I figured you'd chime in :rofl: I still remeber a post of yours a while back about people needing to use the free photo sizing software that is available :lol: Hell - photobucket makes it easy to do now :smash: |
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568794363)
I know how much you "hate" that:lol:
|
Originally Posted by need-for-speed
(Post 1568794325)
GEEZ - why did you have to quote the OP and his oversized pics. We already saw his pics.
Please edit and delete the pics so we can read WITHOUT SCROLLING SIDE TO SIDE. :cheers: |
Originally Posted by jschindler
(Post 1568794363)
I know how much you "hate" that:lol:
Originally Posted by RRVettes
(Post 1568795061)
Mike's gettin testy in his old age. :lol:
Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568795479)
And you can't even send him an email becuz the feature's not turned on in his profile. Gee, Mike......whatcha gonna do? :ack::thumbs:
:smash: :crazy: |
But Mike you know we love you...:grouphug:
|
Originally Posted by HawaiiC6
(Post 1568797329)
But Mike you know we love you...:grouphug:
|
"but Mike, you know we luv yu."
:cheers::thumbs: ... :rofl: |
Originally Posted by HawaiiC6
(Post 1568797329)
But Mike you know we love you...:grouphug:
Originally Posted by RRVettes
(Post 1568797385)
Originally Posted by AORoads
(Post 1568797409)
"but Mike, you know we luv yu."
:cheers::thumbs: ... :rofl: Back at you guys !!! :grouphug::party: |
question: don't the engine builders have some form of quality control that would have picked up such problems prior to shipping? Moreover, do they not have a policy for handling customer complaints? Forcing a customer to ship an engine across the country is NOT what I would call a good policy. Hell - I have seen quite a few complaints over the years amongst friends and in almost all cases, the vendor worked with the customer in having a local shop handle the role of disassembly and inspecting. I have even seen builders fly to the customer to verify the issue. Mistakes happen. It is precisely how the buisiness handles them that I care about. Anyone that states they do not make mistakes can take their perfect record and attitude somewhere else.
You get what you pay for in this world. A company that charges a bit more in order to enact a few QA policies, take more time for the builds, and reserve time AND money to simply deal with issues would be one that I would prefer to work with than one that chooses to keep the business "lean" and cut corners. If GM puts out defective motors periodically (which are hand built) and they still get through QA, nobody can state their build is not defective without looking at the evidence. LME should have NEVER let this issue escalate to this point. A qt burned every 400 street driven miles is not normal - not by any stretch of the imagination. Part of doing business means you assume the customer is right until proven wrong with real research and investigative work - it sucks - but that is what a good business does. If LME had decided to pay for the shipping back or select a shop more local to the customer to do the work the moment these issues came to light, they would have come to the realization that they need to get this customer a new engine. That customer would then be a happy customer and this thread would not even exist. Now LME is losing business because of it. Some never frickin' learn. EVERY vendor out there has had to eat it on their work at one point or another. IT IS PART OF DOING BUSINESS!!! Success stories are had by many and all businesses. BUT.... IT IS PRECISELY HOW THEY HANDLE THE MISTAKES THAT ARE INEVITABLE IN ANY BUSINESS THAT SEPARATES THE ONES THAT THRIVE AND THE ONES THAT DO NOT. I would never do business with LME based on just a few facts presented here - mainly the facts about how they work with their customers and NOT because they made one mistake. make no mistake about it - many shops portray themselves as being professional. Professionalism shows through ONLY when its time to deal with the issue of a customer complaint - anything else is simply usual business. LME did not act professional in this situation. Simply because of the way they dealt with the customer. |
I just read the majority of this thread and have a couple things to say.
I had LME rebuild my LS1 shortblock last summer. At that time, oil consumption was non-existent. I have driven it about 6,000 miles and I would have to add ~2 qts. of oil between oil changes. Im not implying that this is a defective build like the OP's, but I do know its no completly right. My catch can would be half full after a couple weeks of driving :ack: I have it torn back down to the block as we speak, and can get pics of the piston. I just hope it doesnt turn out as bad as the OP :ack: |
Originally Posted by Corvette-Chris
(Post 1568798436)
I just read the majority of this thread and have a couple things to say.
I had LME rebuild my LS1 shortblock last summer. At that time, oil consumption was non-existent. I have driven it about 6,000 miles and I would have to add ~2 qts. of oil between oil changes. Im not implying that this is a defective build like the OP's, but I do know its no completly right. My catch can would be half full after a couple weeks of driving :ack: I have it torn back down to the block as we speak, and can get pics of the piston. I just hope it doesnt turn out as bad as the OP :ack: |
Originally Posted by Corvette-Chris
(Post 1568798436)
I just read the majority of this thread and have a couple things to say.
I had LME rebuild my LS1 shortblock last summer. At that time, oil consumption was non-existent. I have driven it about 6,000 miles and I would have to add ~2 qts. of oil between oil changes. Im not implying that this is a defective build like the OP's, but I do know its no completly right. My catch can would be half full after a couple weeks of driving :ack: I have it torn back down to the block as we speak, and can get pics of the piston. I just hope it doesnt turn out as bad as the OP :ack: |
GM currently considers 1qt every 2k miles as acceptable.
01-06-01-011E Issued December 18,2008 |
wow,just got all caught up after a few days of skipping this thread. Kudos to the original poster for keeping his cool and not bashing/insulting anyone. For those of you jumping on the negative train, think twice. This is one of the longer running threads I've seen on a board and only a couple of un-satisfied customers have hatched.
I'll be calling Bryan this week to order some stuff. I originally hail from the F-body/ls1tech crowd where LME holds quite a bit of respect if anyone wonders why that's where I'll send my $$. |
good thing lme isn't a supporting vendor or this thread would have been locked instantly. We need threads about both good and bad to STAY open so members can make an informed choice before throwing away thousands of dollars
|
Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568799115)
What is your oil change interval? If its 3000 miles that would mean you are using a quart every 1500 miles which depending on the build and tolerances would not be too bad for consumption. In the old days and I mean back in the 70s when I worked for GM, excessive oil consumption in a BB chevy would have to be more than a quart in 500 miles.
Originally Posted by glenB
(Post 1568799531)
GM currently considers 1qt every 2k miles as acceptable.
01-06-01-011E Issued December 18,2008 Like I said, Im not assuming that its LME's fault. They have treated me fine thus far. All I am saying is that before, I could go at least 3,000 miles and not add a drop of oil, and after LME rebuilt it, I add 2 quarts between changes. (3,000 mile increments) I dont mind doing it if my motor is going to survive, but if it turns out to be similar to the OP's, then I will be highly pissed. :flag: |
The interent is a powerful tool. I hope LME's lack of customer support bites them in the ass.
|
Originally Posted by vetdude
(Post 1568800877)
The interent is a powerful tool. I hope LME's lack of customer support bites them in the ass.
http://www.hardcorels1.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=2424
Originally Posted by bradenW
(Post 1568799574)
wow,just got all caught up after a few days of skipping this thread. Kudos to the original poster for keeping his cool and not bashing/insulting anyone. For those of you jumping on the negative train, think twice. This is one of the longer running threads I've seen on a board and only a couple of un-satisfied customers have hatched. I'll be calling Bryan this week to order some stuff. I originally hail from the F-body/ls1tech crowd where LME holds quite a bit of respect if anyone wonders why that's where I'll send my $$.
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TJ that was a great link, the truth really is coming out on a company which is now very suspect in engine building. Let see you get an engine which was making 530 hp and then when you finish with it the engine is making 450 hp :eek::eek::eek: let see the cam was degreed in a tooth off :eek::eek::eek: and oops we forgot to tighten the rod bolt:eek::eek::eek:
Hummm no wonder they have that policy to send them the engine back for them to disassemble...they don't want others to see their shoddy work and will give them the time to point fingers at others. Really glad this thread came out as it will save a lot of people from being ripped off. |
Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568801093)
Apparently the OP is not alone after all!
http://www.hardcorels1.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=2424 Maybe that is why the link to this thread on LS1tech was DELETED TWICE! See his post (post #75 "Let me explain here, I personally have dealt with 100s of LS1 engine building shops in my online career as Admin/Founder at LS1TECH.com."). But my question to him was never answered: how many engines have you had built by these hundreds of engine shops? For those interested in post/thread from that "alternative" site, here's the post and follow on that got my attention (fr. Hawaii C6 post/url): " Stang's Bane Just a squirrell trying to get a nut... Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Wherever I may roam Age: 35 Posts: 655 Re: Infallible sponsor....or not... Quote: Originally Posted by ScottB Here is our saga with LME. We have always used Erik for our motors, after 10+ builds and no issues, why would we change? One of the techs working there was always talking about how badass Pecos was. Pecos this, that, etc... We had a customer bring us a car that MTI built. All aluminum 427, MTI heads/cam. This car ran like a scalded ape! It made 530/510. We did notice it to start puffing smoke and would get hot. Other than that, it ran fine. The tech called Pecos, he said on the older sleeves, they had a problem dropping...and this did sound like what was happening. The owner decided to pull the motor and the tech mentioned how badass Pecos was. Naturally, it ended up going to LME. LME gets the motor and says the only thing left good, are the rods. The crank is cracked, pistons are screwed. At this time, I'm thinking, this car ran awesome to be that tore up. The owner decides to build an LSx blocked 427 with LME's pro ported LS6 heads/cam. We get the motor back, put it in, do some mild tuning. I'm driving around, get the AFR somewhat dialed in, its a SD tune, and I can tell this motors is a pig. No torque at all. WE put it on the dyno....450rwhp/400tq..lol. We just lost 80rwhp with supposedly better stuff. I tell the owner, I don't care who you are, you're not going to lose that much power with a bad tune on a na car. The tech calls Pecos. He says dynos are for ****...go run the car and then let me know. We do...it rips off a 7.0@96..lol. The tech calls Pecos back. We end up yanking the motor out, sending it back to LME. LME finds the problem, when they degreed the cam in, they got it a tooth off. Mind you, this is an intake to pan build, we had nothing to do with anything mechanical on this motor. Can you degree a cam and get it a tooth off? We get the motor back. Get the car back on the dyno. It makes 480. Not bad, but still way....way down on power. We're looking at coils, etc... to find out if its got a dead hole, etc.... We do another pull and the oil pressure tanks. The motor comes back out and goes to LME. At this point, the shop owner has pulled this motor twice...so he talks with LME about the issues with their motor. They agree that LME will pay for the pulling of the motor, twice, at a reduced rate. LME gets the motor back and says all the pistons are burned up, it was bad tuning and they are no longer going to pay for the labor on pulling the motor, nor anything else. I 'm no Job Spetter Jr., but there is no way in hell this motor torched pistons. I've never burned a car up in my life and I've done quite a few 700+rwhp nitrous/blower cars in my life. At this point, I'm thinking, these guys are crooked. I then begin to wonder if the original crank/pistons were even ruined. I still think they hosed the customer on this. Anyway, customer pays for new pistons. When the motor gets back, the owner decides to install some TFS heads on it. LME at this point, claim they are no longer liable for anything that happens with the motor. We throw it on the dyno, it picked up to 510...not bad, but still down. We start doing some pulls with the bottle, its making high 600rwhp, but I begin to notice, its smoking ALOT....oil smoke. We check a plug....its got oil on it. At this point, I tell the customer, I don't feel safe hitting the nitrous with oil in the mix. I tell him to drive it, keep it on motor and enjoy it, the car has been at our shop for almost a year. When it gets to smoking real bad, we'll pull it and send it to Erik. He declines and we yank it the next week...lol. Erik gets the motor and tears it down. I know very little about this, but I do know the rings were in upside down and the cylinders are filthy...like they never cleaned them after honing. The motor was also still a 427...remember, they said it had burned up and installed new pistons. Whew...talk about getting the run-around..lol We got the motor back from Erik last week, we should have the motor broken in this week and possibly some numbers at the end of the week. There is one motor...lol. The other was a 402 that slung a rod out the side of the block after 500 miles. LME said it was an oil issue, that GTO's had this problem. This motor was a friend of Pecos', so they did fix it for free. This bad boy made a whopping 430rwhp..lol. When it was cam only, the car made 410...lol. The owner has since sold the car, so I have no idea if it still has all the rods intact. I laugh about all this now, but it sure wasn't funny at the time." "I have seen the first motor with my own eyes and discussed this with Erik. NO BS here guys, this is the truth..." |
Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568801093)
Apparently the OP is not alone after all!
http://www.hardcorels1.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=2424 Maybe that is why the link to this thread on LS1tech was DELETED TWICE! |
Originally Posted by bradenW
(Post 1568803057)
I don't run ls1tech. I don't know/care why it was deleted over there as it's none of my business. I actually posted in one of those threads..probably the first one. I'm known as "El_Diablo" over on that side of the house. Cheers.:cheers:
In one of my previous posts I posted what my take on one possible reason why the first thread I posted about this issue in the NW Region section. That thread apparently pissed off a sponsor that was local to me here, he took it personal that I made a statement about "mail order" engines which in this case was exactly that. It turned into a pissing war and the thread went no where but 180 degrees about face, so it was deletec by I have to assume the moderators. My reply was in no means directed at you :) |
Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568803701)
My reply was in no means directed at you :) I'm glad we keep it civil over here. Too much b.s. to deal with inthe real world to be clowning eachother on the interweb. Good luck to the OP and good luck to LME. I'm sure both will do just fine in the future. Bill Out!:flag: |
Originally Posted by bradenW
(Post 1568803830)
No worries mang. I didn't take it that way. No wait...screw you pal. I'm an internet tough guy!:lol:
I'm glad we keep it civil over here. Too much b.s. to deal with inthe real world to be clowning eachother on the interweb. Good luck to the OP and good luck to LME. I'm sure both will do just fine in the future. Bill Out!:flag: |
When LME was informed by the OP of excessive oil consumption at 600 miles they should have immediately told the OP to ship it back. Engines don't heal themselves and LSx engines don't improve in oil consumption, particularly when custom built to exact tolerances. Telling the OP to keep driving it tells me someone at LME is a moron.
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No sense in name-calling. C'mon now.
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Originally Posted by bradenW
(Post 1568810838)
No sense in name-calling. C'mon now.
I wonder how understanding you'd be in a similar situation. You could easily ruin yourself financially dealing with these kind of businesses. |
If I ever make a big purchase like this I will always want to see the warranty in writing before I buy. As soon as they say the engine must be shipped back to them, I'll run, not walk from their business.
LME screwed up with this one. Yes an engine will go bad here and there but that is when you expect excellent customer service. LME's answer was IMO pathetic. OP and LME probably didn't come back due to legal concerns. I sure wouldn't however if I was LME I would consider sending the OP a new engine to save face. Even if they win in court they'll lose business anyway. |
Originally Posted by AirBusPilot
(Post 1568806414)
Telling the OP to keep driving it tells me someone at LME is a moron.
Originally Posted by AirBusPilot
(Post 1568810954)
Didn't call anyone a name, but just stated a fact.
I wonder how understanding you'd be in a similar situation. You could easily ruin yourself financially dealing with these kind of businesses. My understanding is that if I was in a similar situation, I'd have pulled the engine sooner rather than later regardless of what LME said and sent it to them because that's the warranty that came with the expensive lump of metal. There have been some old saying thrown around here about "a man's character" and "You're only as good as your word." I have one too. "Two wrongs don't make a right.":flag: p.s.-I talked to Bryan today and ordered a pair of 6 bolt TFS heads, yella terra roller rockers, and pushrods today. He was as professional and polite as anyone could be. Don't just jump in a negative band wagon. It's ok if you've been swayed towards not purchasing from LME but to simply state that they are morons or do a lot of shoddy work is smearing people unfairly. |
Originally Posted by bradenW
(Post 1568811181)
Forgive me, I must be the moron as I've forgotten how to read. My opinion on the matter at hand has been stated. Whether it was LME's fault or not is not a concern of mine. The OP stated himself that he did not give LME a chance to fix things according to warranty. That is where we disagree but it is just that. I'm sure the OP holds no ill will towards me for having a differing opinion than his own.
My understanding is that if I was in a similar situation, I'd have pulled the engine sooner rather than later regardless of what LME said and sent it to them because that's the warranty that came with the expensive lump of metal. There have been some old saying thrown around here about "a man's character" and "You're only as good as your word." I have one too. "Two wrongs don't make a right.":flag: p.s.-I talked to Bryan today and ordered a pair of 6 bolt TFS heads, yella terra roller rockers, and pushrods today. He was as professional and polite as anyone could be. Don't just jump in a negative band wagon. It's ok if you've been swayed towards not purchasing from LME but to simply state that they are morons or do a lot of shoddy work is smearing people unfairly. And what kind of discount did he give you for trying to save his company on this site? Tit for Tat. |
I highly doubt he even knows that he talked to me (as in who I am on this site) because I never mentioned it, nor did he. I simply don't feel that it mattered or that it was my place. That business is between him and the original poster. I just find it to be a trend with Corvette owners...hard to please this group. That's why I generally mind my own business in this forum and stick to the classifieds. Maybe I'm too young and I just don't get it? I paid $3387.00 for the heads/rockers/pushrods. Apologies to LME if they didn't want that posted but I really doubt he gives a hoot about this thread anymore. Is there anything else you'd like to know about me? I'm an open book brotha.
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Originally Posted by bradenW
(Post 1568811181)
Forgive me, I must be the moron as I've forgotten how to read. My opinion on the matter at hand has been stated. Whether it was LME's fault or not is not a concern of mine. The OP stated himself that he did not give LME a chance to fix things according to warranty. That is where we disagree but it is just that. I'm sure the OP holds no ill will towards me for having a differing opinion than his own.
My understanding is that if I was in a similar situation, I'd have pulled the engine sooner rather than later regardless of what LME said and sent it to them because that's the warranty that came with the expensive lump of metal. There have been some old saying thrown around here about "a man's character" and "You're only as good as your word." I have one too. "Two wrongs don't make a right.":flag: p.s.-I talked to Bryan today and ordered a pair of 6 bolt TFS heads, yella terra roller rockers, and pushrods today. He was as professional and polite as anyone could be. Don't just jump in a negative band wagon. It's ok if you've been swayed towards not purchasing from LME but to simply state that they are morons or do a lot of shoddy work is smearing people unfairly. This caused the unfortunate chain of events. If LME would've told him to pull the engine and send it back right away they'd have clean hands. Telling him to keep driving a sick engine is unreal and tells me someone at LME is a moron and does not understand engines. What the OP should've done after that is open to speculation, but it was readily apparent that the culprits here had little interest in helping the guy out, instead they hung their hat at the first opportunity to shirk their responsibilities. Companies like this, particularly in these times, don't survive. When you start screwing people word gets out fast. Henessey, MTI, AZPS, etc., all went down that road and met the same fate. Glad your parts order went well. I ordered from Summit awhile back and it went swell too. |
Why hasn't this thread been locked?
LME is not a forum vendor, right? :leaving: |
I would think that it would be kept open as a service to forum members who might be searching for a engine builder.
Actually, I would this it would be a service to forum vendors as well. After reading this thread a member would be more inclined to use a forum vendor imho. |
More problems for LME
Originally Posted by Fastcar
(Post 1568816914)
I would think that it would be kept open as a service to forum members who might be searching for a engine builder.
Actually, I would this it would be a service to forum vendors as well. After reading this thread a member would be more inclined to use a forum vendor imho. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...engines-2.html Apparently they are a major sponsor there, but there are problems there as well. |
I just had a 440 built by LME through England Green.
It is using one quart in about 200-300 miles w/ castrol 10w30 dyno oil. I am not too happy about this. This morning I put 15w50 synthetic in there as I am planning to road race. Hopefully, it will not burn as much oil. I spent a fortune on this build. What should I do????? I am not trying to bash anyone or stir the pot, but should I be concerned with the consumption? Will the consumption get worse? |
Originally Posted by fallen
(Post 1568863372)
I just had a 440 built by LME through England Green.
It is using one quart in about 200-300 miles w/ castrol 10w30 dyno oil. I am not too happy about this. This morning I put 15w50 synthetic in there as I am planning to road race. Hopefully, it will not burn as much oil. I spent a fortune on this build. What should I do????? I am not trying to bash anyone or stir the pot, but should I be concerned with the consumption? Will the consumption get worse? England has a big reputation and you should get him involved as did the person who had gone through VMax Motorsports to have LME do the engine build and who ran into problems and LME took care of the problems. Good luck 1-2 quarts every 200-300 miles is excessive. |
Originally Posted by HawaiiC6
(Post 1568863542)
England has a big reputation and you should get him involved as did the person who had gone through VMax Motorsports to have LME do the engine build and who ran into problems and LME took care of the problems. Good luck 1-2 quarts every 200-300 miles is excessive.
Maybe you will have better luck, since you are from both NYC AND Houston. Being close is good, isn't it? |
Originally Posted by fallen
(Post 1568863372)
I just had a 440 built by LME through England Green.
It is using one quart in about 200-300 miles w/ castrol 10w30 dyno oil. I am not too happy about this. This morning I put 15w50 synthetic in there as I am planning to road race. Hopefully, it will not burn as much oil. I spent a fortune on this build. What should I do????? I am not trying to bash anyone or stir the pot, but should I be concerned with the consumption? Will the consumption get worse? I doubt it will get better, the OPs car was using oil from day one and never stopped. If you can get a bore scope, and I mean a real atriculating bore scope, you can go into the spark plug holes and take pictures of the oil wash on top of the pistons like the pictures that the OP supplied. This will be a tell tale sign of oil passing the rings. Also find out what rings that LME used in your build, if they used low tension oil rings and or CHROME STEEL top rings that can be an issue. They used chrome steel in the OPs engine but I am not sure what the oil ring pak was. If you know someone with one of these articulating bore scopes, mostly used by a jet engine mechanic, I was lucky a friend of mine is a AP jet engine wrench for a major airlines here and he borrowed it and I had a chance to see what it can do inside an engine, its a very small head which can be turned insde the engine, and takes hi-res pictures. These things are worth around 15k! A good thing you are in Houston, you can go to LME and get right in their face! |
TJ,
You are right that oiling problems rarely fix themselves or spontaneously get better. Sometimes if the rings are extremely crappy (aka not round)or the hone job is (wrong finsh or insufficient crosshatch depth or RMS etc.) it may take a while for them to fully seat but any high quality ring that is round and flat and a high quality piston in a bore that is correctly honed with the right gasket and torque plate with the right finish should be sealed up pretty much right away within a minute or two and only get slightly better after a dyno pull or two and then essentially be there for good. There are several steel rings from TS and NPR that are chrome steel barrel faced rings. I've probably use 300 sets and never had an oil control problem. You do run a slightly different hone job for them but then again any real engine shop knows that. The low tension oil rings are a more important issue but even that will not cause that much oil consumption as 200 miles a quart usually. It could be another issue as well. We've even reordered new pistons WITH THE WISECO NPR GF STEEL RINGS on three high profile customers here on corvetteforum.com with big time oiling problems and their oiling issues totally vanished! These engines also previously has normal plasma moly rings with napier seconds and still smoked like crazy. Anotherwords it wasn't the rings themselves obviously and we had not built these three engines initially either.
Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568866515)
I doubt it will get better, the OPs car was using oil from day one and never stopped. If you can get a bore scope, and I mean a real atriculating bore scope, you can go into the spark plug holes and take pictures of the oil wash on top of the pistons like the pictures that the OP supplied. This will be a tell tale sign of oil passing the rings. Also find out what rings that LME used in your build, if they used low tension oil rings and or CHROME STEEL top rings that can be an issue. They used chrome steel in the OPs engine but I am not sure what the oil ring pak was. If you know someone with one of these articulating bore scopes, mostly used by a jet engine mechanic, I was lucky a friend of mine is a AP jet engine wrench for a major airlines here and he borrowed it and I had a chance to see what it can do inside an engine, its a very small head which can be turned insde the engine, and takes hi-res pictures. These things are worth around 15k!
A good thing you are in Houston, you can go to LME and get right in their face! |
Originally Posted by RACER7088
(Post 1568867305)
TJ,
You are right that oiling problems rarely fix themselves or spontaneously get better. Sometimes if the rings are extremely crappy (aka not round)or the hone job is (wrong finsh or insufficient crosshatch depth or RMS etc.) it may take a while for them to fully seat but any high quality ring that is round and flat and a high quality piston in a bore that is correctly honed with the right gasket and torque plate with the right finish should be sealed up pretty much right away within a minute or two and only get slightly better after a dyno pull or two and then essentially be there for good. There are several steel rings from TS and NPR that are chrome steel barrel faced rings. I've probably use 300 sets and never had an oil control problem. You do run a slightly different hone job for them but then again any real engine shop knows that. The low tension oil rings are a more important issue but even that will not cause that much oil consumption as 200 miles a quart usually. It could be another issue as well. We've even reordered new pistons WITH THE WISECO NPR GF STEEL RINGS on three high profile customers here on corvetteforum.com with big time oiling problems and their oiling issues totally vanished! These engines also previously has normal plasma moly rings with napier seconds and still smoked like crazy. Anotherwords it wasn't the rings themselves obviously and we had not built these three engines initially either. I totally agree that the correct hone finish, use of a torque plate makes for the correct fit and finish. When you refer to the NPR style rings from Wiseco are these a napier type ring? I am not totally versed in the different styles of rings used today, I rely of experienced engine builders such as yourself to choose the correct rings. The local guy here has used the napier second rings which was used in the OPs engine rebuild, he hasn't used a drop of oil since. The pistons were replaced with Arias 2618 alloy forgings. I beleive the top ring is a Hell fire ring. As you said it was likely not the rings but rather the cylinder finish that is crucial to break in and sealing. I had another old school 383 LT1 that used oil at a rate of a quart every 200 miles or less. Hell fire top rings were used in the original build, along with Ross 2618 pistons. The engine was rebuilt using Arias pistons same hell fire rings, can't remember what was used in the second ring position and standard tension oil rings were used. He also had an offset put into the pin position and since the engine was done, no oil consumption as well. Lot of that problem was also the cylinder wall finish. |
TJ,
Yes the second generation of the Wiseco coated steel rings come with a beveled top ring and a napier second and are called GFX. The first gens were a non beveled top and regular scraper second rings and were called just GF rings but we've used both with no issues at all ever to tell you the truth but the older GF was higher tension. The newer GFX rings though are lower friction and are ultra high tech. Believe it or not some imports already use these rings in some OEM stuff already so they are VERY good rings. These have great oil control like you said even though they are lower in tension than before. The Napier stuff is very nice! The hone jobs need to be cylindrical (good geometry with no taper and extremely round bores) to a very high degree since these newer rings will wear very little at all and the finish needs to be right for oil retention and ring rotation to seal up right and last a long time. Total Seal is awsome and will get people straight on hone jobs usually very fast. Both Keith and Kevin there are awsome and so are their rings. They also sell these same rings and a million others
Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568870155)
I totally agree that the correct hone finish, use of a torque plate makes for the correct fit and finish. When you refer to the NPR style rings from Wiseco are these a napier type ring? I am not totally versed in the different styles of rings used today, I rely of experienced engine builders such as yourself to choose the correct rings.
The local guy here has used the napier second rings which was used in the OPs engine rebuild, he hasn't used a drop of oil since. The pistons were replaced with Arias 2618 alloy forgings. I beleive the top ring is a Hell fire ring. As you said it was likely not the rings but rather the cylinder finish that is crucial to break in and sealing. I had another old school 383 LT1 that used oil at a rate of a quart every 200 miles or less. Hell fire top rings were used in the original build, along with Ross 2618 pistons. The engine was rebuilt using Arias pistons same hell fire rings, can't remember what was used in the second ring position and standard tension oil rings were used. He also had an offset put into the pin position and since the engine was done, no oil consumption as well. Lot of that problem was also the cylinder wall finish. |
Originally Posted by bradenW
(Post 1568811181)
Forgive me, I must be the moron as I've forgotten how to read. My opinion on the matter at hand has been stated. Whether it was LME's fault or not is not a concern of mine. The OP stated himself that he did not give LME a chance to fix things according to warranty. That is where we disagree but it is just that. I'm sure the OP holds no ill will towards me for having a differing opinion than his own.
My understanding is that if I was in a similar situation, I'd have pulled the engine sooner rather than later regardless of what LME said and sent it to them because that's the warranty that came with the expensive lump of metal. There have been some old saying thrown around here about "a man's character" and "You're only as good as your word." I have one too. "Two wrongs don't make a right.":flag: p.s.-I talked to Bryan today and ordered a pair of 6 bolt TFS heads, yella terra roller rockers, and pushrods today. He was as professional and polite as anyone could be. Don't just jump in a negative band wagon. It's ok if you've been swayed towards not purchasing from LME but to simply state that they are morons or do a lot of shoddy work is smearing people unfairly. Did you work at LME too???? :lol: |
Originally Posted by AirBusPilot
(Post 1568815353)
Companies like this, particularly in these times, don't survive. When you start screwing people word gets out fast. Henessey, MTI, AZPS, etc., all went down that road and met the same fate.
|
Originally Posted by fallen
(Post 1568863372)
I just had a 440 built by LME through England Green.
It is using one quart in about 200-300 miles w/ castrol 10w30 dyno oil. I am not too happy about this. This morning I put 15w50 synthetic in there as I am planning to road race. Hopefully, it will not burn as much oil. I spent a fortune on this build. What should I do????? I am not trying to bash anyone or stir the pot, but should I be concerned with the consumption? Will the consumption get worse? No way in hell should an engine burn that much oil. Putting way too thick oil in it is no solution. I'll bet the exact same situation, lack of attention to detail - less than perfect piston, ring, hone.... part selection, fitment, perfecting of clearances... A fresh engine should use a very small amount of oil, real small. If you have to put a quart in the first few thousand miles, and then next to no oil usage after a few thou breakin... that's a properly built engine. A quart in 200-300 miles is a joke. Probably honed the sht out of the cylinders to get a real big piston to cyl clearance, because the pistons selected are more intended for racing than street performace. Top shelf pistons, coated, correct material for a street performance application, carefully fit on the tight side of the clearance. My general guideline lately has been, if they are using Chinese cranks and huge clearance uncoated pistons...stay away. They are just throwing together junk. I run into the exact same thing with performance Harley engine building. There's some price leaders out there that throw junk together with clearances all over the place and part selection based on price. Then there is top shelf stuff put together to perfection. One runs like crap, makes noise, and burns oil. One costs a lot more, but exceeds customer expectations in every aspect. People that have been through one of the price leader crap nightmares, will stick with quality next time. |
Originally Posted by Michrider
(Post 1568889974)
Yank it and take it back.
No way in hell should an engine burn that much oil. Putting way too thick oil in it is no solution. I'll bet the exact same situation, lack of attention to detail - less than perfect piston, ring, hone.... part selection, fitment, perfecting of clearances... A fresh engine should use a very small amount of oil, real small. If you have to put a quart in the first few thousand miles, and then next to no oil usage after a few thou breakin... that's a properly built engine. A quart in 200-300 miles is a joke. Probably honed the sht out of the cylinders to get a real big piston to cyl clearance, because the pistons selected are more intended for racing than street performace. Top shelf pistons, coated, correct material for a street performance application, carefully fit on the tight side of the clearance. My general guideline lately has been, if they are using Chinese cranks and huge clearance uncoated pistons...stay away. They are just throwing together junk. I run into the exact same thing with performance Harley engine building. There's some price leaders out there that throw junk together with clearances all over the place and part selection based on price. Then there is top shelf stuff put together to perfection. One runs like crap, makes noise, and burns oil. One costs a lot more, but exceeds customer expectations in every aspect. People that have been through one of the price leader crap nightmares, will stick with quality next time. |
Originally Posted by fallen
(Post 1568928287)
Thanks. However, I cannot just yank the motor--it's my only car and I live in an apt complex--or else I would have pulled the motor a while ago. Trust me.
stop and get on the phone and ring lme- my idea might not hold much merit but a factory mass production engine does not drink that much oil,but they are both different but with 1 thing if you paid a lot of money u want someone to go over it with a fine tooth- and from what you are saying they or he or she have not- thats my point- |
Originally Posted by KCS
(Post 1568889746)
Hmmmmm....
Did you work at LME too???? :lol: |
Originally Posted by tjwong
(Post 1568801093)
Apparently the OP is not alone after all!
http://www.hardcorels1.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=2424 Maybe that is why the link to this thread on LS1tech was DELETED TWICE! |
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