Its Back.... Shriner COPO with L-88...
 

Well at least this time is has a new write up... Shriner's COPO with an L-88...

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&st=1&lot=1247

the description is still ambiguous...
Bill

this is good:

"Originally a base motor 300"

Then they get a little ambiguous:

"and upgraded to a 427cid/430hp engine although it is now equipped with an L88 package"

and then they flat out go deceptive:

"Documented as 1 of 13 Shriner COPO cars with a correct L88 driveline."


:rolleyes:

Sounds like an attorney wrote it. :D

Chuck

damn attorneys! ('till you need one, that is ;) )

We still love ya, Jack. :D

Chuck

there's another thread going on trying to guess the hammer price of the Grand Sport #2, heck this would be a better guess. Come on, a totally "correct" L-88 Shriner ride, it's got to be 7 figures, huh?:bs

I wrote Steve Davis a couple of months ago and got him to include that statement in the description; he said he and the current owner were both aware of the car's history.

Very careful and clever wordsmithing in the rest of the description, however... :rolleyes:

Like steve davis gives a crap what you or anybody else in the world thinks. If Zora himself rose from the dead and told steve to change the description and be honest about what this car really is, he would keep his smug look and sunglasses on and tell him right to his face to take a flying leap. Talk about arrogance and selling his soul for the almighty dollar, him and his boss take the cake.

I want to puke everytime I see craig pimping his mom up there on the auction stand all just to make another dollar.

I love the circus, just not the ringmaster

bigredbrad

They spend all the time in the world when auctioning one their VIP's cars. They DID short gavel the Sox and Martin car and screwed the guy. I don't blame him for chaining the car up afterward. Their consigner's contract is so ambiguous that they got away with it. It's fun to watch but I would never buy or sell there.
BJ = PT Barnum:bs

Except it was not the Sox car, but the Ramchargers Parts store 70s Cuda. It too had some possible misleading information. It was claimed to be the "Original" Ramchargers car. By 1970 all the original Ramchargers were either back to their old jobs at Chryslers or Elton Eckstran to his Law office. The Michigan Judge who purchased the car from the Ramchargers auto parts store thought he was going to make a killing at BJ`s. I understand he did clear close to 40K and I think made up with BJ`s.

I don't even like the "circus". It's still an embarrassing display of American wealth and poor taste.

:iagree:

What ?
 

If you can't read the description on this car and fully understand what you would be bidding on, then you should hire an attorney and sue your parents ---- for dropping you on your head when you were a child !!

I hope either Ron Pratt or Terry M purchase it............

:D:iagree::rofl::lol:

I agree that being stupid is no excuse, but if you were to read the board for this car (being sold by Larry Sachs, btw) like I did yesterday in the high-end tent out here, you'd be hard-pressed to appreciate the truth, and a strong case could be made that the car is being misrepresented - they have twisted the shriner thing into a selling point, as if this was some sort of shriner-commissioned L88 or something.

The fact is, the law provides that if you knowingly misrepresent some fact about the product you are selling, and that is a material fact, and the buyer relies on this material misrepresentation, you have a fraudelent sale; and that is not the fault of the buyer who has been mislead.

ctjackster
 

Since I'm freezing my tail off here in Cincinnati and do not have the pleasure of being in Scottsdale--I will not disagree with your statement
about what is represented on the sales board.
I was speaking of the cars description as listed here.

I agree too, but I can't pull myself away from watching the circus.

It's like complaining about the traffic and all the rubber necking around a traffic accident, and then when you come up on it yourself, you look over too. :lol:

Have heard many an interesting story about LS, who happens to be a local Westchester resident.............
Can't say that I'd be interested in puchasing anything he has for sale....

(hope that was polite enought to not offend anyone especially the C.F. gods)

160 !!!!

conveniently didn't show it until the hammer

bj now had to lie and mislead to sell it! Quote, " has THE correct L88 drivetrain"??

1 of 13 with only 5 known left to exist? It's a Schriner car. 300 motor! Is it that significant?

I'd say that it is obsequious at best.

It's still a COPO car regardless. COPO cars in the corvette world are extremely rare because COPO was commonly used for ordering non RPO performance options in other models (camaro/chevelle). COPO's are very uncommon in the corvette line because you could order just about any hi-perf option thru RPO.

Not only are COPOs extremely rare in corvettes, they were known for being very well made on the assembly line because production people knew the COPO was probably for an executive or friend of and wanted it to be it's best....

They weren't claiming the car was an originally L88, just a COPO car that is now running an L88 drivetrain.


Sure BJ is a display of wealth and excess, but I don't see anyone here picketing in front of homes in Beverly Hills or Miami or 5th Ave Manhattan for spending more than the common person. If you work your a$$ off and have done well for yourself, you are welcome to do with your earnings whatever you please in whatever manner you please, last I checked at least.:flag:

BJ is still:bs no matter how you slice it. Anything for a buck. This is just another example of PT Branum's tactics. (Still like watching it though)

My .02.

Sorry I missed this portion of BJ on Speed. I've become more interested in this Vette since learning about it at Carlisle this past August. I don't know who was selling it there, but they were very clear when speaking to me of its history and it not being a TRUE FACTORY L-88.

The main thing that sparked my interest is its history to the Shrine, of which I am a member.

When my BJ book came in the mail, first time I've missed in several years, they had a nice photo of it and I thought I'm not going to miss this either live or on tv. Well I've missed both.

I would have gone half, if it truly hammered for $160K. At $80K I would have walked away. The numbers weren't that good at Carlisle for me to get serious.

I'd pay a fair market price for one of the Shrine Vette's. This just happend to have some other interesting history over the years, since it "became" a real L-88. ;)

To some Shriners it is.

How is this car a COPO car. there is no option or color on this car that was not available for the 67 model year. A Shriner car was and were 12 or so cars that were ordered with all the same options and colors and was used for parade use. please do some research :thumbs:

Barrett-Jackson is a joke,if at some point it was a respectable place to sell a car it isnt anymore and Steve Davis isn't doing anything to help the image of Barrett-Jackson.

:iagree:....but I still like to watch the cars. You almost have to do it with the audio turned down though.

stupid foolish person who paid that much for this decidedly non-original molested once a shriner car. And who the hell knows what the seller was claiming, but in the end it sounded like an L-88 shriner car.

Obsequious, Jack? Now there's a word that is seldom heard around the Bramlett family dinner table. Well... unless the topic happens to be Shriner and/or COPO Corvettes.

Brett, you did well. :thumbs:
Agree with you about the purchase aspect. Reputations are interesting things.

The car doesn't have to have super unique options to be put thru COPO. All the shriners cars were ordered thru COPO/F&SO. The 67 Shriner cars were white with bright blue interiors. They were ordered without antennas or radios but still had the ignition shielding installed (installed radio suppression system with radio delete) This was so the shriners could have CB radios installed by the dealer so they could communicate while driving, parades, doing drills.

Other than the shriner cars, there were approximately 10 other copo 67's ordered that year, all of which had non RPO color combinations. One of the '67 COPOS was Zora's personal car which he ordered Silver with Red interior, 350hp roadster. There was only 1 accounted for in 68 - I know because I owned it and sold it at Bloomington 2 years ago. The car was looked at by Chuck Berge and Al Grenning had seen the paperwork previously. (it was British Green with Dark Orange interior)

67's on up are the only years able to verify COPO due to having a tank sticker designating it. If you look in the upper right hand corner of a tank sticker, there is a box there labeled "COPO/F&SO". 99.5% of the cars out there will have a blank box. The COPO cars will have an order number typed in. In addition to the order #, there will be hand written corrections on the options that usually start with R/N and a single digit number circled. This the Revision Number confirming the non RPO over-ride done by the line supervisor. If you compare the handwriting to the accounted for COPOs, the handwriting is usually identical showing the line supervisor was the same.

Any more 'research' you'd like to add?

cha ching for d-tailed there.:smash:

I have met and talked to LS at various shows around Westchester. The last I saw him he was trying to sell that Austin Powers 67 vert at a show in Mamaroneck.

Since my car is the next serial numbered car to the last Shriner car and equipped the same I could.......NO, better not do that. Someone might think it's a Shriner car. :D Dennis

Here is the video of the auction. It's a little short as SPEED went to a commercial break and when they came back the Corvette already was already on the block and bidded up to $140,000.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/index...BarrettJackson

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/image...t/011709_2.jpg

My '64, which I bought from the original owner's son-in-law in December, 1966, was/is a Shriner car from a Patrol in Omaha, Nebraska. VIN is very low, around number 1650.

It was built with 250 hp, Powerglide and Posi, no radio or any other options. Riverside Red, silver seat and door with red dash and carpets and white soft top. Would that interior combo be considered COPO? Only non-Shriner one I've seen so equipped was once owned by Billy Graham. Or maybe he ALSO bought a used Shriner?!?

For the many years of the group's existence, the cars were always convertibles, identical in exterior and interior appearance. Whitewalls and hubcaps, no knock-offs. However, some ordered higher hp engines, radio, power steering, etc. depending on personal preference. Very few Shriners ordered sticks because these cars were used at 3 mph in parades and half-time shows. When the son-in-law received these cars they had perhaps 3,000 miles on them (the group sent their cars by rail to the more distant appearances). The second owner drilled holes in the rear deck, painted and installed the '63 hardtop from the silver/red previous Shriner parked next to "mine" in his garage. At the time of my purchase the '63 had 40,000 miles and the '64 had 16,000. He was asking $2000 for the '63 and $2600 for the '64, which I chose for the hardtop and mileage.

Now the '65 he received a few months later was definitely a COPO, IMO. It was yellow with black interior, 300/PG. It had factory-installed 396-style sidepipes although it and its 12 brothers were built in August or September of 1964, a good six months before big-blocks arrived in showrooms. And it had a vertical, black vinyl snap-in "curtain" between the seats and the luggage area that I've never seen or heard of in another C2 convertible.

This Corvette Patrol placed their annual "fleet priced" order with a dealer in the Omaha, Nebraska area.

Other than the (maybe) COPO interior, my car didn't come with any special equipment like the '65. so I don't think it's particularly special or valuable compared to any other "base" red-haired stepchild '64! Except that I've owned and enjoyed it for 42 years.

what is shriner copo
 

colors or l88:withstupid::withstupid:

:iagree:

Yup, I had to go to my Microsoft Bookshelf to brush up on that definition!

I can see it now...

"...among the many benefits of your participation in the Corvette Forum is its Roster of Well-Educated and Worldly Members, whose presence alone will surely help Expand one's Horizons..."

Oops, I think I'm being a tad obsequious! :lol:

If not a tad obstreperous and somewhat truculent!

:rofl:

- Pat

and here's that once-a-base-shriner-car then used-as-a-platform-to-fake-an-L88 car, then caught red-handed, then passed off as who knows what at BJ, this shot taken in the staging area, just before the car went accross (I tried to discreetly speak the truth to the would be bidders milling around the car, but it seems some folks wanted to have a 67 that was once a shriner's car, now with an L88 engine installed for whatever reason:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2rpv6dg.jpg

Wow, a shriner L-88 ! I bet that one's a real bitch on your clutch leg during a parade (but at least the F41 suspension comes in handy when the need to dodge the other Shriners that are driving the gas-powered bowling pins presents itself).

Not claimed to be THEoriginal Ramchargers car.. but AN
original Ramchargers car... Several of the original Ramchargers were
there at the sale.. on stage.... I doubt they would've be there if the car's lineage was suspect.


BJ screwed the pooch on the sale... I think everyone was waiting
for the Big Boys to start coming out with the really big bids.. this
is what I think caused a lul in the bidding..
The bidding stalled just a tad.. and BOOM, the gavel dropped quick..
everyone was stunned...

There was ZERO crowd working by BJ when the bidding slowed...
not a word from Craig, Steve, or Spanky... they spent more time
working some very plain.. non historic boring restomods than they
did the Ramchargers car... the Judge was right to protest.. he got
short gaveled.

The '65 Shrine cars were blue with white interiors, the '66's were yellow with black . They were all sold through my family's dealership in Wahoo NE. I was disappointed with the price on the '67, I feel it brought too much money. Fake L88, interior color change, ect. Was the price because the Shrine connection, the L88 or the supposed COPO?

Garwood Anderson

agree with others on this one.The description was worded vaguely.The description when it crossed the block was even more colored.But like any auction buyer beware

I was trying to figure that out too, since the bidders at BJ usually know the deal. I was left just having to conclude that at least two bidders were out there that thought they were getting a real piece of history as a Shriner's car (which this car would be if it hadn't been so completely bastardized) or a real piece of history as a COPO L88 of sorts (not true) or some kind of authentic L88 (also not true).

I just wonder, how much would a well done 67 L88 "tribute" car bring? Although corvette folks haven't really supported the tribute car thing, I wonder what a well-done 67 L88 tribute car would fetch - I think the time is right.

this is a tribute car of sorts...a real 67 L-88 is worth 10 times what this car brought if the reports of this car selling for $160K are accurate.

I guess that is the most accurate way to view it - but it wasn't dressed out as a proper 67 BB with the L88 option either, so the buyer didn't get a very good tribute car. It did sound like the business when it was running though.

BTW, the full price paid for this car on Saturday was $176,000 (includes the 10% commission)

I drove that car for probably 2,000 miles when it was new since it was my dads Shrine car. As we all know it was white with blue interior but it was a 350HP car not a 300 and it did have a factory radio so there was nothing COPO about that car. I thought it kinda funny that they were saying it was documented as a COPO Shrine car since I have all the real info there is and I didn't give it to the seller. About 1/2 of the cars every year did not have radios but did have the radio shielding. Later in 69 and 70 we got in small block cars with big block hoods I have the invoices for those cars. Anybody have questions about Shrine cars I have some records and know about all of them from the white 57s thru the 81s with invoices for 68 up and serial numbers and owner info for 65 up. GL Anderson.

Its good to here from you again. did you ever bring the person that originally tried to sell or build that car to court? I know it was talked about.

Agreed, I'd love to hear more as this was one of the best stories of uncovering a high dollar Corvette fraud.

No I didn't have any reason to do so since I was not buying the car. I suppose since he tried to bribe me to back up his fairy tale..... or if being a dumb ass was illegal maybe then I could have. At anyrate this should put an end to this mess unless the buyer wants to talk about his purchase. GL

well at any rate it was your call, after all you did have all the original paper work showing what that car was. and its a sham that someone could be that simple to do something in search of the all mighty dollar. but if you would on above argument whether or not the shriner cars were COPO or FSO cars. were all of them ordered under the COPO processes.

yes, they were all COPO :willy:

Were they all COPO cars? Well maybe not in the true sense. There were many years we would have a meeting with Joe Pike and after dinner sitdown and give him the info as to color and interior plus which member wanted what engine and radio or no radio but all had the shielding. Then there were years where we sent the orders in the normal way with a note as to any special items like big block hoods on the small block cars. We would also order extra cars like the Shrine cars as sold orders and or stock but they would be picked up at the factory or delivered by truck. We would also order cars for regular Corvette customers to be picked up or delivered with the Shrine cars but not in the color or equipment ordered by the Shriners. I have paperwork on a 435hp Yellow car picked up by a customer from Texas at the same time the Riverside Gold 69s were picked up for the Shriners. He brought his hot GF along for the plant tour and work just stopped while she was waking thru the plant! We had some pretty good contacts with Chevrolet including Pete Estes so pretty much got whatever we wanted. They even called and wanted us to take 2 really expensive Camaros in 1969 seems they had all aluminum 427s in them and cost about twice what a normal Camaro cost. I tried to pre sell them but couldn't and had to call them back and decline. Seems pretty stupid now but I had to do it. GL

My non-radio car came with shielding. I think the FCC required it on all 'Vettes because the RF interference would go right through the 'glass fenders and make other drivers' radios buzz.

I don't think that is a fact. I have orders where we actually ordered shielding with no radio and they have a number for that option plus a price for the shielding on the invoice so if it was "standard" as you may think then it would not show up that way just as any standard part on the cars.

GL - Nice to have you posting here.

Inteeresting stuff - good to learn that the 67 Shriner cars through your dad's dealership were L79s. As for the subject 67 car that went across at BJ recently, I still recall quite well when you spoke up on the NCRS Tech Forum about the car, and how it was then being presented as a legit L88.

Also interesting to hear about the shielding being affirmatively ordered by a dealer when you had a radio delete car (that makes perfect sense, since it does dress up the engine bay). Pretty sure there was no FCC mandate in 67 requiring shielding.

We would order them with shielding as some of the guys would have us install of all things a cheap Motorola AM radio. They would keep the same radio for years if it fit the next model year. Seems silly now but that is what they wanted. Not all the 67s were L79s some were base motor cars and it was about even between automatics and 4 speeds.

Here is a dealer claiming a 67 COPO Vette with docs... Mershons...

http://www.mershons.com/resize.asp?p...640&height=480

http://www.mershons.com/view_photo.a...age=Additional

I think you will find that COPO cars are not restricted to [the very uncommon] "non-RPO performance options" (whatever that means - you might be referring to option combinations or ext paint that were not normally permitted) - but such "special HP order Corvettes" during the C2 era didn't really happen much, if at all - BUT, to be precise, I believe every GM car (incl Corvette) ordered by a GM employee (line worker, "brass hat", etc.) was ordered through the Central Office Production Order system and thus were technically all "COPO cars."

As for the 67 Shriner cars, what makes them COPOs? Sounds like the ones that went through GL's dad's operation were a mix of 300 and 350 hp cars, some 4sp, some PG - I am guessing it is a COPO car because it was fleet ordered? Here is an article from the Restorer from a guy who then-owned a 67 Shriner Corvette that came through Anderson Chevrolet in Nebraska, the tank sticker he includes a picture of certainly shows it to be a COPO order, with the "Tangier Shrine Ptrl" noted as well as "Plt Delvy":

http://www.tangieronline.org/pdf/TangierCorvettes.pdf

GL will note the "Radio Supp unit" item on the tank sticker, that would seem to support his recollection that they were in the habit of ordering ign shielding when the car did not get ordered with a radio. In fact, GL is referred to in the article. That article also lists ALL of the 67 Shriner patrol Corvettes, including 194677S102390 (the car that just sold at BJ, again (sold there a few years ago as well)).


As for the Mershon's 67 car that achapman posted a link to above, that is an oddly-worded write-up, it reads as if Mershon's believes that Lynndale blue was only available on a 67 Corvette via a COPO order, which is flat out wrong.

I tend to agree that the write-up is "off" somehow, but the color combination was not an RPO "combination" (which is the word Mershons should have used). Lynndale blue was not RPO offered with a red interior. That's probably the reason for the COPO.

One of my favorite 67 "combinations" is also COPO (if they were produced by the factory at all) is the silver big block with red interior and red stinger. I've seen a number of these and they are beautiful, but not RPO.

It seems to me that the majority of Sting Ray COPOs were due to color combinations that were not RPO but desired by someone anyway.

The FCC wasn't involved in 1967. I ordered mine without a radio (wanted to install an 8 track tape player :rofl: ) and no shielding came with it.

Thanks for the link! That file is a keeper. :thumbs:

:cheers:

- Pat

I suspect that a COPO was needed for the red interior with the blue exterior on Mershon's car and to get the radio suppression hardware on the non-radio Shriner cars.

It's also possible that GM provided some special pricing due the "charitable" nature of the Shriner cars. I don't know if that would have required a COPO or not, but it might have.

Actually you could order any Corvette exterior color with any available interior color. Later you had to inital that you wanted that color combination. That held true for all Chevrolet cars and trucks. We got a 1963 Impala that was red with a white top and a blue interior because somebody ordered it that way for stock. There was no special pricing on the Shrine cars as such. We got things like the radio shielding at whatever price Chevrolet decided it should cost. The small block cars with big block hoods I believe were at no charge. They didn't have any emblems on them just a standard 427 hood inplace of the small block hood. I will look at the invoices of those cars and if they charged us I will repost with the price. GL

That's interesting. The back of my original 1967 Corvette brochure (somewhat worn), where the exterior and interior colors are shown, says, "Interiors are color-keyed to exterior colors." The dealer I ordered the car from told me my choices for interior color were Black or Saddle (if I remember correctly) with the Marlboro Maroon exterior that I wanted. I ordered the Saddle.

I don't think the Green or the White/Bright Blue interiors would have looked too good with Marlboro Maroon!! :D

no but there is always one in a bunch. :willy:

Well I betcha that you could order an Austin-Healey in Opalescent Maroon with a Suede Green interior. Or just pick one off of the showroom like that, lotsa strange (by US standards) colour combinations from across the pond ! :flag:

Actually all he would have had to do is just check any color interior and any color exterior and they would have built it. Again this was true not just for Chevrolet but also the other GM divisions. We also got a F-85 wagon in that was kinda of a mauve color I don't remember what year just now but it had a blue interior in it again somebody checked the wrong box. The 68 Shrine cars were dark green with a tobacco interior, not a recommended color/interior combination but that is how we ordered them. No big deal at that time. GL

I bow to your superior knowledge. The yellow/black car I saw must have been a '66. Still, I would think a small-block/Powerglide car with big-block side pipes would have to be a very special order.

hmmm, i'm puzzled... what are "big-block side pipes" as opposed to SB side pipes. i don't think they will interchange because of the exhaust manifold configuration.
Bill

Right. I'm only aware of side pipes being factory-installed on big blocks. But the yellow Shriner car had them, so a COPO somehow got St. Louis to cobble the exhaust connection together for a dozen cars.

67 Shriner car was white with blue
 

.

You will remember John when Bill Mock had his 'real' documented Shriner 67 Corvette. It was white with marina blue or teal blue interior. 327/300hp and powerglide. All the cars were that way.

This world today will just jump on every bit of history to try and make a buck.:willy::willy: What I don't understand is how did that cloan sell for $176000 !

Side pipes were available with both SB's and BB's beginning in 1965, and continuing through 1967.

Skipped 68, then in 69, side pipes were available with both SB's and BB's.

Chuck

I'm not getting your point, and SBs could be had with RPO N14, at least I never heard they weren't in 67 for some reason

Sidepipes were available on anything; there were no engine or transmission restrictions. 1000 were small-blocks, 3200 were big-blocks. :thumbs:

It said in the link that ctjackster posted that that car was a 4 speed.
Shemp :cheers:

well, I am willing to take GL's advice on the configuration of the 67 Shriner Corvettes


Jim, I completely agree - I was dumbfounded as to why this car fetched so much money - it is not presented in its correct Shriner SB form, and certainly not with its orginal L79; and so what if it has had a 427 dropped in configured as an unstreetable L88?

It's kind of like dropping a hemi in any old Chrysler product and getting big bucks for it. Crazy.:crazy:

shame on me
 

I did not read the whole log here as I have this morning. Thanks to GL and cyjackster for the updates.

It is the fraud of this car that appears on nation wide TV that bothers me greatly. This country needs a big vacumn cleaner. MONEY....:willy: MONEY.......:willy: MONEY.