Got a Four Wheel Alignment Today - Toe Was Out of Spec On All 4 Wheels
 

At Modshack's suggestion, I had a four wheel alignment done on my car today. The car has approximately 4,800 miles on it. The toe on all four wheels was significantly out of spec. I know others on the forum have had similar results, including Modshack.

The front toe was the worse. 1.19 degrees total toe. :smash: Factory spes are -.10 to .20. The rear was .61 degrees total toe. Factory specs are -.20 to .20. Now all four wheels are well within the factory specs. :thumbs: I just wanted to pass this on to others who might want to have their alignment checked.

1500 miles showing. Have mine planned for next Wednesday ZPirate. Good info. :)

Yes, Do it!!

As I've said before, the chances of getting an "on spec" alignment out of the factory is slim to none... Figure 10 potential adjustments in 3 minutes of rack time?....:rofl: :rofl:

Everyone here is always complaining about inside tire edge wear down the road a few miles...Some have even shown pics of the cords and metal belts showing.....This is TOE induced, NOT camber as many surmise. Toe was out on 3 of my 4 wheels, and 4 of 4 on Zpirates car....

I think it is well worth it to get the alignment done. Certainly a lot cheaper than new tires. :thumbs:

BTW it cost me $89 for the four wheel alignment. Took the tech approximately one hour to do it.

Yep I know what ya mean. I just had mine done, 27K miles, 4 new tires, balance and 4 wheel alignment. The guy said that just about every corvette he aligns, is "way" outta factory spec.
It now feels like a brand new ride. steering feels tight again. :thumbs:

Looks like I'm putting a four-wheel alignment on my list.

After reading Modshacks post on tire wear, I got my 08 in Monday. Camber was -1.1 on the left, -.5 on the right. Toe was out a touch on left also. The technician took the extra time and set everything to spec, Zero +/- numbers..

That's great! I'm glad you had them check. :thumbs:

BTW I didn't mention it in my original post, but my camber was fine all the way around. Just the toe was out of spec.

Any performance guys and/or tuners out there heard anything about making sure your 'vette is "toe'd in" on the front end to reduce tramlining?

The folks at RMCR recommended this to me, and I thought I'd see if anyone else had similar experiences/results.

:cheers:

toeing it in will help reduce tramlining, however at the expense of steering response. Toe in will make the steering a bit sluggish, depending on how much toe in you give it.

I like to have 0 toe and prefer to have crisper steering response in exchange for the little bit of tramlining that may occur.

Good point. The steering response on my car felt noticealby better as soon as I got in the car after the alignment. :thumbs:

My car's steering was great, I could not tell anything was wrong. I'm sure in another 5K miles or so, I would have found the left front chewed up on the inside. New car or not, I would have the alignment checked soon after it comes home.

That is the first thing I do also. I try to get the dealer to check alignment as part of buying the car, even on the Corvette. You cannot trust the alignment from the factory. They only have a few seconds to rough align the car as it comes off the assembly line.

The last time I bought a GM car, the dealer would not align it until it looked like there was a problem. I drove the car for a few weeks, took it to the alignment shop of my choice, and sent the bill to the service department at the dealer. GM reimbursed me for the cost of the alignment.

One other point is that the car can be "within factory specs" and still be set too aggressive for the way you drive and acceptable tire wear. My Z06 came from the factory with -1 deg. camber, and with wide tires, I was getting noticeable inside tire wear within 1000 miles. I gradually backed off the camber, and found that anything more than about -1/8 deg. will give you significant inside tire wear for street driving.
When you get an alignment, you need to be able to TELL the shop what settings you want. Don't just trust them to set everything to factory specs.

Not entirely.
I set my toe-in to zero and left the camber at -3/4 deg. and I still got significant inside tire wear. Toe-in will make the problem worse by causing feathering wear, but you need to reduce the camber to -1/8 deg or less to eliminate inside wear.

I just came back from a long drive in the twisties this morning. It's amazing how much better the steering response feels after the alignment.

I was also wondering if the fact my car was shipped from PA to NC when I purchased it affected my alignment. I know it was strapped down in the trailer.

Not my experience, but YMMV....Heres a tire (Bridgestone SO3) with 20K miles on it that was mounted on an Audi TT witjh -.8 degrees camber up front and -1.6 degrees in the rear. Toe neutral up front and toe in of 1/16th rear. Not bad for a high performance tire on a highly cambered car. Driving (cornering) usually compensates for any camber related wear issues resulting in generally even wear across the tread. if you're a highway cruiser with an alergy to aggressive cornering (as many are here) then I'd agree that camber will play a bigger part in tire wear.

http://images17.fotki.com/v305/photo...SC04907-vi.jpg

Corvette GS2 tires at 10K and On spec alignment:
Fronts:
http://images35.fotki.com/v1210/phot...MG_0876-vi.jpg

Rear:
http://images39.fotki.com/v1226/phot...MG_0942-vi.jpg

As I said earlier, your mileage may vary, but there is NOTHING wrong with the factory specification, provided it is ON SPEC and not at the outer edges of the range...

Can any suspension/alignment gurus recommend specs for a good street alignment. I would like to hand the tech a set of specs to go after versus just letting them get within spec. Looking for a good set of numbers for a good "tire life/handling" compromise. I know you have to give up one or the other, but figure there must be a good middle ground for street use that also leaves in a bit of descent handling.

A good alignment shop should be able to get you right in the middle of the GM specs. My shop gave me a printout showing the camber and toe before the alignment as compared to the GM specs and after the alignment as compared to the specs. My car's alignment specs are now right in the middle of the acceptable GM spec range.

Yup..They should have this in the database of their alignment machines.

http://images30.fotki.com/v41/photos...gnspecs-vi.jpg

Where did you get your alignment done? I live in Wilson, and have an '08 with less than 1500 miles. May be my imagination, but it seems like it wants to drift to the right a little. Air pressure is 30 cold, and I don't notice any wear, yet. I think for peace of mind, I'd like to get it checked/set by a good shop. Thanks.

I had the same issue with 3000 miles on my vette. Got it aligned to exact center of specs and steering response was significantly improved. Glad others are find the same thing.

At 5,750 miles and lowered on the stock bolts with the rears cut, I'm heading in for an alignment tomorrow.

Thanks for all the info:thumbs:

2009 Z06 1100 miles alignment was out significantly in the front.:cheers:

I need to have mine done but the dealer wouldn't or couldn't hook his machine to my wheels.

I have found every new car I ever bought was out of spec. I'm waiting on poly bushing and shocks. As soon as I finish the install I'll have to get it aligned anyway. But I recommend any one who whats to keep their tyres more than 5k mi to get an alignment.
Mike

:lurk:

You don't want the Dealer to align your car. Take the car to an Independant alignment shop, ask around for what shop does the Autocross cars for your area.

I'm getting mine aligned tomorrow morning at 8am with 1,600 miles at a place that is known to give spot on alignments and does autoX alignments. I will even get to accompany the guy aligning it under the car and ask him any questions I have while he's doing it.

I'm shooting for:
-0.4 camber in front and rear
0 static toe in front and rear
a decent amount of castor to increase self-centering and steering wheel feel.

My front was out of spec as well but the back was good. Major improvement, it is a noticeable difference to the driving experience. Money well spent in my book.:yesnod:

Factory alignment at 19,000 miles on left front tire.
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/P7010002.jpg

Wow, I never knew that the factory alignment was that much out of whack.
I was thinking of lowering the car after about 1000 miles, but I guess I should just lower it now and have it aligned after the suspension fully settles.
Thanks for the info.

Dan

The factory specs provide for a fairly wide variance. It's better to try to get all the specs in the middle of the spec range if possible.

not to hijack the tread but how much are alignments suppose to cost. i got a quote for $165.

Edit: Specifically in NJ if possible :)

This really doesn't tell us anything. This wear could easily occur even if you are within "recommended spec". We really need to know the alignment numbers.

Exactly....Virtually EVERYONE has found the "Factory" alignment to be off...sometimes WAY off. Toe is a killer and is what typically scrubs a tire like that. My toe was outta spec on 3 of my 4 wheels..

Mine cost about $85 when I started this thread, but in NC.

165$ seems a bit high. here in southern ny state westchester county (thats just north of nyc) average price is about 100$
Mike

Does anyone know if sports cars from other companies (Porsche, Ferrrari, etc.) commonly send cars out of the factory with alignments out of spec?

No, that's NOT what I said. I said that kind of wear could occur if you were within "recommended spec". It can come from the factory within "recommended spec" and still wear badly.

Exactly. The "recommended spec" range is fairly broad. Being on the edge of the spec range either way could cause wear issues. That's why I wanted to get my alignment as close to the middle of the recommended spec range as possible.

As Zpirate said, the recommended spec range is so broad it borders on a joke. My interpretation of On Spec is the Spec number, not the allowable range of ERROR. Yes, you can scrub your tires off in no time and still have the numbers in range. Another reason NOT to go to your dealer for an alignment check, rather pay to have it done right to the correct number.

ok lets take the FE1 numbers. the allowable range on most points is up to and over 1 degree i.e caster, camber and toe. in your opinion what should the setup be for the street? the reason I ask is next week I am changing out all the parts in the suspension.
Mike

IMO, the factory spec is fine for aggressive street use.
Use the SPEC though and stay out of the "tolerance" range. A little wander to either side of center is OK, but for the most part it should be on the money. Insist on a before and after chart from your alignment guy and be very specific about your requirements. These numbers are already in his machine. The cruiser types here who most whine about tire wear, like to dial the camber closer to Zero. If you don't go around turns and don't play in the twisties that's OK I suppose. Many Corvettes are used like that.

http://images30.fotki.com/v40/photos...gnspecs-vi.jpg

Just ignore the + or - allowances. Set it exactly to the factory specs.

If you are changing parts you are on your own for alignment specs, factory specs are for factory parts. Get a good local suspension/alignment shop and ask for for advice, tell him what you want. i.e.; Maximum tire life or Maximum handling, you won't get both with any alignment on factory or aftermarket suspension parts.

I just got back from getting mine done. I originally wanted -0.4 camber but he told me that I can go up to around -1.0 degree w/o having to worry too much about tire wear, as most tire wear is the result of incorrect toe. I know my Firehawk has -1.0 degree and has no issues with inside tire wear with my driving style, so I went with that.

I guess he aligned a guys track ZO6 with some pretty aggressive specs (-2.5 camber front and -2.0 camber rear) before the RA event. The had to remove some spacers in order to get that much negative camber The car owner was an instructor at the Corvette RA event a couple weeks ago.

Anyway, here's mine....how's this for a "spot-on" alignment! :D :cool: I was sitting right there with him while he was doing it too, no sitting in the waiting room wondering what's going on. This is my second time to this place, as I took my Firehawk to get it aligned 5 or 6 years ago and I was just as happy with how that turned out back then as well.

My factory alignment wasn't all that bad, but the changes were definitely noticeable!!

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...ent8_30_08.jpg