What is the best STOCK track car!
 

I have read so many threads about if you are going to track your (Z06) upgrade your brakes system, oil cooler, valves, etc. Is there any STOCK cars that you can track safely without pouring money into them. I understand wear and tear such as tires, brake pads etc. It might be a stupid question but I am interested in tracking car and joining a club and I want to keep cost down. What car/setup is best for the track and is not going to break the bank. I know this is a Z06 forum but alot of you had different cars that you have tracked in the past and I want your feedback. Honda s2000, older 911? WRX, EVO, I have a Z06 (07) but I think it would be to much $$ to upgrade it for the track and maintain it.

That's easy! Miata!

Interesting question....the answer also depends on what you mean by "best". In reality you can track a completely stock Z06 for quite awhile without major issues. You'll burn through a set of stock pads in less than a day, though, which gets expensive. You'd really want to go with a race pad if you were going to be serious about tracking the Z. The stock brakes do their job of STOPPING the car very well, are fade free, and easy to modulate. I ran a couple of days on my stock setup before switching to Stoptechs (switched primarily because of better pad availability and easier maintenance swapping pads, not because I needed something that worked better!) and had no issues. I've heard complaints from some people that over time that had issues with cracking rotors, etc., but I didn't experience those firsthand. Though drilled rotors typically do crack easily, thus you'd probably want to go with different rotors after wearing out the first set.

And definitely you're leaving some time on the table if you don't swap the run-flats for something stickier (MPSCs, Kumhos, Hoosiers...). But you can certainly track on the stock tires and have a lot of fun.

The other thing you'd really want for the Z06 is a harness bar and harnesses. The stock Z seats are terrible on the track; you spend all your time bouncing off different parts of your interior based on whether you're accelerating, braking, or turning. Again, you don't HAVE to make this change, but you'd want to.

There are only two other cars that I think you can buy new and track immediately (after breaking in the motor, of course :-) ): a Lotus Elise/Exige, or a Porsche 911 GT3/GT3 RS. I've made no changes to my Lotus in order to track it; the only thing "extra" I bought was a set of harnesses to use with the factory-installed harness bar. Stock tires are fine, stock brakes are fine, and the car is a total blast to drive. Same story with my GT3; other than changing the factory alignment, I've done nothing to get it more track-ready. Again, stock brakes and tires are fine. It's a dry-sump motor, there are no oiling issues to worry about. The car was designed to be tracked (as was the Lotus). I'd say both the Lotus and GT3 are more "track ready" than the Z06 out of the box, though the Z06 would definitely be third in the list compared to the other cars out there.

Finally, another way to go is just to get a Spec Miata. For about 10K you can pick up a race-ready Spec Miata in good condition with a full cage, electrical cutoff, fire system, race seat, track-ready suspension, etc. It'll be the cheapest of any of the cars to run by a long shot (e.g. $99/axle to replace BOTH rotors and both sets of pads, and you'd probably get half a season on each set!!), and they're very reliable. It's not going to be as fast as the Z06 or GT3, but it's still going to be fun, and by far the most cost effective (case in point: doing a big brake kit, wheels/tires, and a harness bar for the Z can easily cost you 10K, and the consumables are a lot more expensive, as is the wear and tear on the car).

Good luck!

Compared to a lot of other cars, the Z practically drives itself on the track. Up to a certain point, there is very little you have to do to it - the occasional HPDE event, for example. As the number of events, the pounding imposed by the particular track and the speed of the driver increase, you will have to make incremental upgrades in the components like brake fluid, pads and certainly tires (which usually requires another set of wheels to accomodate the sizes of tires you'll want), suspension, etc. Finally, we get to the full-blown racers who need to rebuild almost any car they run, and for whom starting with a C6Z is not really the best idea. Thus, you have to evaluate the source of posts you read here to determine if they are more like you or less like you. On the other hand, if you have an unlimited budget . . . .

Now, there is no question that Miata's can be a lot of fun . . .

:cheers:

Noble http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=120703

:cheers: :cool:

:iagree: Spring Mountain uses completely stock cars for their classes.

Bondurant uses complete stock vettes, and their track is very hard on the cars. They upgraded, fluids and brake pads, but I believe thats it on the most part. I think the Z06 probably is a little less reliable on the track actually, because of the increase horespower and load on the car.

I was amazed what those stock vettes could do!

Be careful of Nobles! I track with several of them, and while they're quick, they all seem to have significant cooling issues (as in go run 10 mintues and come in and park for 60 minutes before you can go back out again).

My C5 Z06 with few mods handled the Nurburgring. Mod the driver and you don't need a big brake kit for some HPDEs.

i 1LZ Z06 is pretty sick around the track while still being stock.
but you can do some slight add ons that would make it better, as in different pads, brake fluid, and stainless steel brake lines.
A lotus exige is pretty good also.

100k.....thanks but that defeats the Question.

The Z06 is pretty high up there... a beginner only needs fresh pads, fluid, a helmet, and an open mind.

Once you start getting fast and have been doing this for years pretty much any road car needs major upgrades. Things like suspension (esp bushings), wheel bearings, and brakes all take a beating far greater than the oem designers intended.

You start to get into race car territory which is why we got the Panoz vs. continuing to mod/run a Z06.

Buddy picked up a used Lotus Elise cheap and drives the crap out of it at the track....

To the original poster, you didn't mention your goal. Assuming no prior experience, I assume you are thinking of DE events, not time trials or anything competitive. Which means, you can make it whatever you wish. You can have a lot of fun, improve your driving skills a lot, and do nothing at all to your car except routine brake maintenance; better pads and fluid. You will find folks (perhaps you already have), who go absolutely nuts over modding their car. Some succeed in getting their cars to the point of being poorly prepared for anything, street or track. As it sits, your car is capable of incredibly high performance driving. No, you can't run it in a 24 hour endurance race, but it will take 20 minute track sessions without issues, demanding only a modest amount of cooperation from the driver. There are a lot of performance and safety considerations that have to be addressed in preparing a track car and, the fact is, a new street car is a poor starting point. You can end up with something you don't want, but can't sell. My suggestion, enjoy your car to your mutual limits for at least a couple of seasons. If the track bug is then demanding something else, build a track car.

This is great advice... slap on a helmet and run 4 or 5 HPDEs, if the bug intensifies then worry about modding etc.

I was just there this weekend and was blown away by what a stock Z06 can do when it is in the hands of someone very capable. If you want to see what this car can do, have an instructor take you for a spin. I was considering modifying my car like so many cars that I saw at the event and in all honesty the driver is the best mod you can do. Part of my reason for going out with an instructor was to see how far off I am from what this car is capable of and it became very apparent that I am way off. I need to learn how to drive much better before I need to modify the car. If you ever get a chance to get to Spring Mountain, have the instructor take you out for a ride. The instructor that took me out said there are 2 other cars that are worth their money like the Z06. One is a Ferrari 430 and the other is a Porsche Carrara GT. On that track the Z06 and Porsche are just about dead even.

911 GT3 is the way to go if you want to keep it stock and under warranty :D

A Radical...
 

There really is only one vehicle that will give you everything; from safety to performance all for a reasonable price. Check out the video on the link below...

http://www.springmountainmotorsports...ical-division/

There have been a couple of these things on eBay going from $33k-$55K. Beyond holding their value, they also hold the record at the Ring.

Besure to check out some of the vids on YouTube; Radical!!! :thumbs:

is there a class for these? :flag:

C6 Z06 ? :flag:

just put road race tires on it, hoosier r6's or toyo 888 or kumho v710 or michelin sport cups or Nitto NT-O1 :D

and leave the rest stock and you will beat the crap out of 95 percent of the cars on the track! after a 6 months 99% :flag:

lotus or s2k both will get the job done the s2k has corner entering speed do to the high revs ,close ratio trans and 50/50 weigh distribution and if you keep the momemtum right you'll have exiting speed too. but in straights away is not that great but not too slow eighter and its fun as hell.

I agree 100%. Owned and tracked a Lotus Elise a few years ago and had driven a friend's GT3 on the track numerous times. Costs to keep the Lotus running on the track is a fraction of what it takes to run the GT3 or the Z06. Tires alone (R compound from the factory) are way way cheaper to replace, not to mention OE brake pads that actually last on a racetrack.

If they actually pay out prize money for turning fastest laps at a DE event, I will be crazy not to bring the Z. However, DE events can really only be viewed as recreation/entertainment, and the Lotus probably provides the best entertainment value per dollar when compared to any new streetable production car that is currently available. Yes, a Spec Miata is cheaper, but then again, you are not talking about an un-mod car.

Joe

would get an exige or the Evo IX RS . you can get the Evo around $22k. and in stock form with better tires it is a forgiven drive and relatively fast car in stock form.
The exige is almost $15k more but still is affordable.
The reason i think the Evo wins , because the parts price and the durability. The Exige will at least double you cost. So i think the cheapest and still running great times the Evo will win.
Now i love the GT3 RS but that is alots of money. you can run easy 5 season with the evo to get the 1 season cost for the Porsche.
but what is wrong with the Z06? I think its a great track car.:flag:

Any and EVERY car that goes on track needs work. Most to be safe.

Brake fluid need to flushed before and after EVERY event
Brake pads need to be changed
Tires ware out
Oil needs to be changed every few events
transmission and diff fluids changed every few events.

So NO there is not one car that can be totally stock being street and track worthy.

The above is all before the MOD BUG HITS. and it WILL ;)

The Evo and Exige are good cars, been in both,. Only problem is you will seldom see 120 mph, let alone above 140 in either of them, without extensive mods.

If you want a dedicated track car that you can beat the chit out of, and have lots of fun, get a CMC race ready Camero. $9-$12K

C5 z06, just needs brake pads, and the tire of your choice. I drove mine for 5 years at hpde's with no problems and no mods.

Tim

the RS can run in stock form in Lime Rock /CT/ the staright away
over 130 mph . that is really not bad. the exige can do a same.

I think all of us who have "tracked" our Z06s know that they work just fine "stock" and it's not a question of "have to" when it comes to mods, it becomes a "want to". I could do without the headers, the intake, the Nitto's, the new sway bar, etc, but I don't "want to". ;)

You can track your stock Z06, have a great time driving it as it was meant to be driven, and know that you probably aren't going to hurt it. They're pretty tough right from the factory.

Have fun!

yeah that was what i thinking. change tires ,break pads and fluids, and you got a very good track car.

A C6Z really only needs some spare pads and fresh fluid for the beginner... but bang/buck a C5Z is a superior car.

The only downside as as you get more advanced you start going through things like brakes, wheel bearings, and tires where are very costly on the Corvettes.

This is the reason we bought the Panoz vs. convering my Corvette to a track car. Parts for the Panoz are much cheaper and easier to service.

have you thought about service.chevy has a great dealer network.I would also mention something like a factory five cobra. Like panoz they are not as complicated and fun

At Spring Mountain this weekend, an employee there claimed he had not seen any blown engines, or any clutch replacements in the 3 years he had worked there....... and they use stock cars as far as I know...

I had heard they add an extra oil cooler - but I did not verify that.

I agree the best improvement is the driver---this weekend I saw lot's of modded cars leave early, and some not even make it through the first half of the first day, while the stock/almost stock cars seemed to hold up well, enjoy 2 days of laps and turn on their AC/stereo and drive home...
Also a case in point: I took a ride around session in a complete box stock C6 Z06 in the advanced group and John kept up and was waved by a heavily modified C6 Z06, with suspension, slicks, and 550 HP at the wheels. Driver, driver, driver.

Keep her stock except as others have said, brake fluid, lines, pads, tires, coolers, and a good seat.

^^If you truly want a track only car take a careful look at this thread.

http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3161

I also pondered the question you are asking and came to the conclusion that in the long run (probably short-run too) it is much less expensive to buy a car that was specifically designed for the track.

You can get a Radical or similar C or D class sports racer for around $25K. These cars are ready from the get go to go to the track and perform. They will out run the vettes with ease for a fraction of the cost. They are also much less costly to operate because they are not as hard on consumables like tires, brakes, etc. They are also easy to work on unlike the vettes.

Now your thinking. and the idea of the corvette.

95% of all HPDE drivers can not drive a stock CORVETTE to within even 60% of what the car can really do. Let alone the ppl who drive vettes on the street but never attend an HPDE.

I hear that. I have a good friend (let's call him Ken) that has a stock C5Z and thinks he's super fast. But the guy could barely break into the 1:33's at Mid-Ohio!

It's amazing what some people think.

Take the 3 day course at bondurant. I guarantee you will be driving with in 80-90% of what the stock c6 can do :)

are these trace cars able to attend all hpde's? pca you need instructors seat.

track cars, sorry

Not sure about the Radicals, but the used Panoz cars have 2 seats. Here's mine after installing my Ultrashield and some new belts.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...A/DSCF1292.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...A/DSCF1296.jpg

Afordability, power, handling, overall speed, safety, and driving experience, cheap parts...my vote goes for the C5Z06 (any year). This car if set up right, even with stock power and brakes/suspension is such an enourmously capable car for the price (used low $20's). I don't think there is any car on the earth with such performance at that price used. You can say miata/S2000 and such, but I think for just a few more dollars, the C5Z set up well is exotic fast. There are so many low mileage garage queen C5Z's out there at bargin prices, it's almost impossible to resist. While I love my C6Z, if I could go back, I probably would have kept my C5Z.

Nope, no extra oil cooler.
Janet

^^Some Radicals (SR3 & SR4) have 2 seats but they cost more. The Radical Prosport is a single seater. Weighs about 1200 pounds (give or take) with driver and all fluids. Has around 180 hp and can pull over 2.5gs laterally!!

In one of the threads I read, a guy got around the full VIR course in 2 minutes flat. That was with a stock 1000 cc motor. Can't begin to imagine a a slightly tricked out one could do.:thumbs:

yeah i am one of those :D have half a dozen track weekends and am just starting to get to maybe 70 % of the Z06...

i am a chicken :rofl: :rofl: but i am getting faster....very slowly :D hahahaha

Here is another option: http://www.3ballsracing.com/index.ph...id=984&catid=4

For under $20k you have a very safe, very fast car that will take everything you can throw at it. I actually drove the car in the link above, and it changed my thinking forever. Once you start doing track days and see the abuse your car takes, I think a dedicated track car is the way to go. The added safety benefits really make it worth it.

However, I have seen plenty of people bring bone stock cars to open tracks days and they have just as much fun as anybody else.

Ken

+1, you only break the bank once instead of in installments. But I cant think of a better prepared track car that needs nothing but gas, brake pads and tires.

996 GT3's can be had in the 70's maybe even 60's now.

ditto for a 2003-2004 C5 Z06 and prob cost around $30,000 :D

AND PARTS ARE A LOT CHEAPER :thumbs:

and it will make Porsches real nervous! hahahahaha!

The Porsche doesnt need any parts, just drive it. I dont have so much faith in corvettes, and neither do many others.

Yeah you pay more for brake pads and rotors, but you have BETTER brakes.

:rofl: hahahahaha! I owned a Porsche....
they break too and take parts :flag:

If I was going to start all over again tracking a streetable Corvette I'd do the following and consider them bare minimum.

*Ultrashield seat w/ harnesses (comfortable enough to drive to the track if needed)
*Lowering + more aggressive allignment
*wheels/tires
*Brake cooling + front brake kit
*Stand alone oil cooler

That's it... leave the HP mods, shifters, etc etc alone. I do agree that the GT3 needs nothing other than fluid maintenance and consumables, but the Z06 can be just as good, but it does require a few parts.

A Porsche??? Nice try. How about A GT3?

Everything breaks my friend, but some more than others.

No question that the Z06 is bang for the buck much better, and has much more potential in it, but as far as best track car out of the box, I'd go with the GT3 10 times out of 10.

Yeah, but for $100k, do you know what kind of C5 you could build/buy? One that we decimate any GT3 with $100k put into it!!!

$100k in a C5 should get you the absolute fastest car on the track across the country on any given day!!! Would love to see this...buy say a $25k used T1 car and go from there...650hp 427/Best Brembo BBK/Penske true race Coil-overs, with new suspension pickup points...and this just as a start!!! Replace all fiberglass with carbon fiber, better aero, gutted to accept 345's in the front and rear. Full syncro transmission from WC car and on and on...oh to hit the lotto!!!

I saw a few cars just like your Panoz in the GT2 class this year in the Runoff's. Unfortunately, both cars took each other out at the start of the race. Do you know what it would take to make your car competitive in this class? I'm asking because the class had a mix of tube frame cars like yours and production based cars like the Porsche GT3 Cup car. The GT3's dominated the race btw.. I'm guessing that they'd allow more than the engine that you have in there now?

You are assuming we are talking about the 997 GT3, when the 996 GT3 is just as potent, lighter, racier, just slightly less hp. It's more hardcore, and can be had in the high 50's if you look hard enough, but regularly in the 60's, and this is with decent mileage.

Like I said, bang for the buck goes to the Corvette hands down, but overall, the corvette is still not a better suited car for track duties in stock form than a GT3, and even if you add all those mods, you'll likely get even more problems out of the vette. So it would be faster, but run a whole race season and see who ends up spending the most money on non accident related repairs.

I have 4 favorites for best (nearly) stock track cars that fall into 4 discrete price point categories (I have owned 3 of them and have only driven #4)
1. Miata (preferably spec miata variety) Huge fun in the turns, dead reliable, cheap parts, mazda racing support
2. E36 M3 Faster, still pretty cheap, and very reliable with regular maintenance
3. C5 Z06 or Z51 C6 Very competent dead stock, much harder to drive near the limit than #1 and #2
4. 996/997 GT3 Euro club sport package with rollbar, seats, harness would make it a perfect "stock" track car

These are becoming the new Mustang. I see nice ones (high mileage 1995-1997ish) going for less than $10K. Wrecked ones with only cosmetic damage are often in the $5K range. Fully prepared, competitive race versions sometimes go less than $20K.

The BMW-CCA and NASA GTS classes feature scores of them running faster than all but the quickest Z06's with a much lower pwr/wt ratio.

Similar times to T1 with much less HP.

I have a porsche 997 turbo, tracked it once. Blew off the turbo hoses, simple fix, however I have a nice loud whine under speed, which probably means a bearing is gone as well. Nice thing about my porsche is its under warranty. Even if they know I was racing it, they will still fix everything. that b eing said, its going to break just like any other car tracking it regularly.

For my racecar I went with a stock C6. putting 70-90k into it, but that thing should blow past my porsche, and for less money. Parts are going to be alot cheaper on it to fix. However nothing will be under warranty :)

:iagree: i been looking at these for a dedicated car that i run into the wall :D

UHUM.. I mean..... go fast :cool:

sounds familiar :D de javu :thumbs: :flag:

-C5Z - hands down best buy for the money right out the box. Driven many GT3s (and one GT3 RS) on track and passed many more in my Z and FRC....and GT3s do break down on track when they are driven hard (just like hard driven Zs). Smack a fender on a GT3 or a C5Z.....

If I had the money I would have a GT3 in the stable (have to sneak it past my wife - she STILL remembers the Porsche part bills)

I would have to see that to believe it....

I was single when i had the Porsche...:thumbs:

One weekend had enough money for parts or take out girlfriend :(

Oh well............ I really liked that girl too :rofl:

Believe it or not i like the porsche because in a pinch i can put kids in the back seat :) Makes my wife more accepting of it!

I think the Mustang is probably still the low cost way to go. I know several people who have well less than $10K into their cars and they are quite fast around the track. One guy actually computed his overall cost (not counting his labor) at putting his latest tang on the track at $200. That included the purchase of two wrecks, combining of required parts and selling off the stuff he didn't want.

Another guy hit the wall at the Glen with his car and smashed the grille quite badly so replaced it with the remnants of a metal supper market shelf he found in a junk yard. It was welded to both front fenders but did an excellent job of holding the car together. You can do things like that when you have a cheap car.

Bill

The GTS Panoz has a 5.8 liter 450 horse Ford Racing crate motor (carb'd) with custom headman long tubes, a TKO gearbox, and Pensek coil-overs.

Our car has a stock 5.0, a Tremec 3550 trans, and Koni shocks with only 3 rebound settings, also has no diff cooler.

To make our car competitive it would need a new motor, gearbox, and shocks... but the chassis and everything else is the same which is why it was a steal at 23k. For 10k more we could have the equivalent of a $80,000 GTS race car.

If anything I'd go racing in ST2 next year. The car would need 320ish rwhp to be competitive which can be had with a $2500 H/C/I package.

OK, since nobody else here said it I've got to suggest a C4 Corvette. They can be had cheaply, and with the correct alignment handle extremely well. I started with mine as in stock LT1, added safety equipment, four point "roll" bar, seats and harness and upgraded the brakes (C5 caliper and rotors, stainless lines) and it was more than capable for my first four seasons of HPDEs. It was extremely dependable and could run in the top of each of my HPDE groups. After my skills improved I started with the engine mods. If I had it to do over again I probably would have sold the C4 at that point and gotten a Z06, but I still love my C4. Look for a C4 with the Z07 or Z51 suspension and go out there and have some fun!!!

I considered a C4 track rat but my research showed that the "required" mods to make a C4 worth a heck on track would get you right to FRC price territory so the consensus (from most all C4 owners) was to just start with a C5 coupe or FRC.

+1, I know for a fact that's not true here at RA. I have seen some E36 M3's tun about 4 seconds slower than T1, and that was with James Clay, who's a pro BMW driver in the seat. But the only car in the range of T1 was at the BMWCCA Race, an E30 with wide body, sequential, completely gutted, tons of downforce and quite a bit of HP. And he was only running 1:32's and 1:33's which is what T1 runs.

But I assume it could be competitive with some T1 guys, just not the best ones, and not at all tracks either. But for the power they make, they are very fast, just not T1 fast.

At my last race, the Beemers were running 5 seconds back in both qualifying and the race.

I am not saying they are not a fine car. In fact I think they are great car to race or do HPDE. They are just not T1 fast.

:flag: :flag: :flag:

I think they are fine with just brake cooling ducts. Very reasonable and fun car. I guess it depends on what class you want to run and what lap times.

Fox-bodies are cheap to do.
E36's are interesting when they get into the 2000-2200lb range.

Sure, check out the NASA nationals results here:

http://racenasa.nasamidwest.com/resu...eventID=252214

Lots of M3's in GTS 3 class in the 1:33 - 1:35 range.

Last time T1 was at M-O the leaders were in the 1:33-1:34 range. And one could argue that the T1 leaders are more experienced (faster?) drivers than NASA folks.

GT3 power to weight ratio is 11 lbs / hp, T1 is closer to 8.5 : 1.

The only cars faster than this were the STU / ST1 cars with a ratio of 5.5 : 1.

So...there you have it. And before everyone starts flaming me because I've mentioned a car that can be as fast as the almighty Z06, note that I realize the rules are different for these two classes...my point is simply that an E36 M3 can be extremely fast. Most of those GTS3 cars can be had for between $20-30K. A Phoenix T1 car is closer to $50K.

Apparently you didn't talk to me:D I think the "required" mods are vastly overblown on the CF. The real achilles in those cars is the stiffness, and you were going to put a cage in it, anyway. All the other crap that people say you need (coil-overs, brakes, power, etc) is BS. Sure, they help, but you can be fast without them. Did you check out the TCC website?

Although I think you made a fine choice with your Panoz. Certainly a fantastic track car...

Haha... mostly it was the chassis bracing needed to sure up the suspension so it would hold allignment and the inferior rear suspension geometry when compared to the C5 platform.

I looked at those results in that link. I used qualifying times because that is representative of a best possible lap time. The fastest car in:
Class: SpecE30-SO
1 44 Chris Cobetto 1:43.480

I am not sure what other cars racing there that weekend might have been Beemers, but we are talking about mostly stock cars here. I don't think any of the Beemers actually being raced are close to stock. They are gutted, etc.

Here are some times I grabbed quickly from the Internet on T1 class cars. This was the first set I found:
SCCA T1 Mid Ohio National
Qualifying:
1. David Pintaric 2004 SRT10 Viper 1:36.361
2. Ed Amonsen C6 Corvette 1:37.546
3. John Buttermore C6 Corvette 1:37.682
4. David Sanders C5 Corvette 1:38.514

Granted Beemers can be made to go fast, they are fine cars, but "mostly stock" as this thread author specified there is no comparison.

Lastly, T1 cars prepped and sold by Phoenix will go for anywhere from $30k to $50k, but in reality, in the open market, most of the cars are going for $30k, plus or minus $5k.

This is not a flame, I just vigorously disagree that stockish BMW touring and improved touring class cars are a match for "stockish" T1 class Corvettes, Vipers, GT3s or Ferraris. They are still fine race cars and HPDE cars, they just won't turn the same lap times.

:flag: :flag: :flag:

Yikes, looks like my linky no worky. Spec E30 is a far cry from an E36 M3, they are cars from the 80's and have about 130 hp:lol:

Here's a cut/paste of the E36 M3 lap times, 1:34's as mentioned above.

Class: GTS3

1 305 Randy Mueller 1:33.694
2 88 Scott Berkowitz 1:34.842
3 001 Sean Tillinghast 1:34.778
4 46 Ryan Osiecki 1:35.690


But I will agree with one thing, these are race cars not street cars. Although I'd hardly call a T1 car "stock-ish." So to summarize my point:

1) If it's a bang for the buck discussion, you can make an M3 (or other car) as fast as a Z06 for similar or less money

2) If it's the best street car that can run on track, then I agree with the Z06. Look at Ken Smith, bone stock Z06 with T1 bars and R tires ran 1:33's...

:iagree: Though I don't know what track is fine without cooling ducts. I had no brakes at all after three laps at Road America on the stock setup. With cooling they worked fine, I modded to the C5 setup just to get cheap pads.

Brakes are a weak point of any car, especially for drivers who are hard on the brakes.

:iagree: i almost bought a nice C4 for 6,000:thumbs: Then i drove FRC it was a lot nicer ;) but then.......... I drove a C5 Z06 and fell in love :cheers:

instead of cash i got a loan, kinda crazy but geez, the thing is a monster!:D

Bad financial move but its LOVE :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Happy Valentines Day:cheers: :cheers:

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

:iagree: Been there, done that !!!

;) I added the Ron Davis combo radiator/oil cooler to the 04/cheap insurance !!!

I run with lots of E36 amd E46 M3s in TT - they are not in the same class for the money of my 99 FRC (won NASA-SE TTB in 2006 and NASA-SE TTA in 2007) - not doing too bad in 2008 so far either....

Fair enough. But David Spencer won TTB Nationals in 2006 and placed 2nd in 2007 in an E46 M3 daily driver...we can have this argument all day long. It appears to be sacrilege on a Corvette board, but M3's can be as fast as a C5...

Let's take the blinders off, folks. C5's are amazing and if my 2008 race budget allowed I'd be driving one. But there are other cars out there that can be fast!

Here is an option...

http://www.motorsportvideo.tv/videos...omannsweg.html

only 1.3M Euro or around 3M US

A buddy just bought an Exige 240 . I'll let you know .:)

Fair enough, it is sacrilege on the Pcar and BMW boards to admit the C5 is comparible. Good thing for David Spencer I did not send Jake up there:D in 2006 or 2007....not likely in 2008 due to school conflicts.

By the way I wanted my wife to buy an E46 M3 instead of the 2005 GTO....she picked the GTO instead.

It is not sacrilege to me at all. I am just going off of experience. There is no way an M3 is going to hang with a C5 Z06 on the track... and this discussion was about the Z06 as a track car not straight C5. I cannot comment on the regular Corvette, but I have ample evidence from races and track day lap times to know that with comparable drivers a "stockish” M3 won't run as fast as "stockish" C5 Z06.

I am not so blind as to not believe other cars can run as fast or faster than C5 Z06. The newer vipers are a good example.

who wants to buy porsche part vs. chevy not me. Get a price on ceramic rotors . Great cars though. My ? is will a spec factory five cobra spank c5z or c6z on the track? thanks

Depends on the driver and/or the track - not likely a spec FFR will trounce a C5Z but it can happen on short tight tracks. The FFR has the aero of a F-4 so at VIR, Road Atlanta or other tracks where aero really shows it is no contest normally.

:iagree: I know for a fact that a stock M3 won't even come close to running what a stock C5 Z06 can run.

I think that the stock C5 Z is definitely one of the best bang for the buck track cars out there. Just change the pads and brake fluid and you're set. There's not much on the track that can match it stock for stock, even now.

Of course it CAN, but not stock vs stock. There is no M3 of any generation that can even be in the same ballpark if let's say R compound tires are the only mod for each car.

In fact, I'd bet a C5 coupe or stock FRC would walk all over an M3. The skimpy wheel widths and access weight are only more detriments as is the lack of Horsepower.

Not even the new M3 will be on the same level as the C5Z. Maybe a CSL version, but those have never been to the states and who knows if the new one will come.

Who has to buy Porsche parts? No one I know. And ceramic disks last so much longer than regular ones, they MAY actually be worth it. After talking to several instructors and people who track GT3's and TT's regularly the large majority of consensus is that you dont have to buy any parts. I know I havent and I've lost brakes at little talladega and went flying off course (4 ft into the air) @ 70 mph. Nothing but plastic undercarriage to replace, no frame damage, no bends (well the exhaust got a little dinged). With the regularity of having to fix stuff on corvettes, especially after you mod them, I'd bet long term efficiency favors the Porsche, at least it has in my case.

:sleep: :sleep: :sleep: