Can't comment on the specific content there, but you went and read it, didn't you. And if there was better input you would have considered it, wouldn't you. ;)

:o yes. But as a learning track junkie, the first thing I learned is how little I know. He does come accross as almightly looking down, but I think he is still one of the better sources of expert knowledge that we have on the forum. And I can't say I would feel differently than he does if I were in his shoes. If he was super polite and woried about everyone's feelings, he would not be able to call it like he sees it and we would not gain as much info from him. You can't deny he knows what he's talking about.

I don't deny he has some knowledge on the subject, but I definitely don't think he knows everything. IMO, he is very narrow minded, over-opinionated and sometimes lacks good old common sense. Remember alot of what he say's is just one man's OPINION. In general I don't recommend taking one man's word as gospel, and don't forget to think for yourself :)

And you still fail to grasp what I specifically have said. Take off the blinders.

:lol: :lol: So everything you say is unquestionable, undisputable FACT unless otherwise noted. :lol: :lol: You are so arrogant it's actually hysterical.

I could say the same thing about you.

Yeah you have certainly proven that over time :rolleyes:

Who said I didn't consider the effect it would have on how it drives?!? I made a specific comment on the looks of the tires, thats all. If someone responded commenting about it's hydroplaning resistance specifically, does that mean they don't consider the dry traction or any other aspects for that matter?? See this is how you treat everyone, as if we are all morons and you are the all mighty expert, lol. And regardless of what you might think or how expert you THINK your opinions might be, a lot of people here do at least consider appearance when choosing a tire.


How dare I! :eek:


Oh and now the "yank" comment. So surprising...a stereotypical reference coming from someone thats so open minded :lol:

Come on guys, chill out before this post gets locked. Then we'll loose the point of the post. This might be a tire to add to our list once we get more feedback on it.

Honestly if 10 owners of mixed C4-C5 Vettes try them and post their feedback we might see some similarities if there are issues with the tires. It does not require that only Z06 owners test them. Remember when Kumho released the V710, and they started delaminating on track. It didn't require only a Z06 owner to convince me not to touch those tires until Kumho fixed them. I had friends in Celica GTS, Miata, M3 all complaining about them.

Now onto this tread design and wet driving. As I noted earlier they look like a V on one side and an upside one on the other. As Tw1light noted. I would also be concerned that based on the tread design that one side of the car sheds water inboard and the other outboard. In any amount of rain where the car gets close to the edge of traction it would appear that one side of the car is not consistent with the other side. A good wet skid pad or traction circle run in both directions would be good to test this. Also with that design I don't really see or understand how the dry straight line traction is consistent. The contact patch on each side of the car is different through 360 degrees of revolution.

I really expected to see a left and a right side tire. Look at something like the Yokohama Parada. It uses a diagonal line tread pattern with a block type outer shoulder. But it lines up properly on each side of the car. It's interesting to me how Vredestein can claim that it doesn't matter. It may be a cool designer tire but it just looks wrong to me.

OK I’ll make one more post on this just to clear the air.

1. I posted because I saw a reference to the tire I just put on my C4 after going through much research and was hoping I could help you guys out…. As I would any Corvette owner, after all this is an open public forum.
2. I fully understand the difference in the two generations of the Corvette listed in this post; I did not come here to discuss that issue. Again only reference was to the tire.
3. I am sorry I tried to help (some) of my fellow Corvette enthusiast’s as it would seem they feel my post was useless.

"People have been known to achieve more as a result of working with others than against them."
Dr. Allan Fromme

This is a tire choice. I don't get what the arguement is about.

I for one appreciate the insight from the person who actually has them on his car.

Price sure looks good.

Any independant tests done on these tires ..?

How did the tires rate ?

Yes .... one European Study done of 8 tires. The V.S. tire got top rating. Problem is .... we need an English translation of study to see the details.

For me .... I would probably rather have Twil1ght test them at Road America ... an get his opinion.

He seems to be the tire expert here on forum ... and gives logical reasons to back up what he says.

Experts are entitled to brag/boast. They have earned the right ... and the rest of us can learn from their vast experience on subject.

In the last several months ... Twil1ight has saved me from making several tire mistakes.

Keep giving out your 'pearls' to us big T. :D

I'm working on getting a test together. I'm not sure how quickly I'll be able to get the tires to get that done. I have put the ball in motion though, and I'm now waiting on a response.


As for this thread, someone has to stand up and be an adult here - so I've removed every post I had in this thread that doesn't relate to this thread in order to try and save it.

I have to admit that reading this thread has been pretty interesting this lunch time. Besides the original issue of tires, it shows that we all have personalities, and sometimes rub each other the wrong way.

I too have crossed paths with twilght (Mark), and have finished the discussions in a PM. As mentioned by a couple of people above, he (arguably) does have a level of experience that most of us can not challenge. As mentioned above, it still is an opinion, just one made with more data. Like anything else on the internet, take it or leave it.

I applaud the note above that was offered to try to get this back on track. It shows a level of maturity that is refreshing.

Would still like to find someone who has really run these tires through the paces (on the right chasis, type of driving and skill level), including putting some miles on them. I've used their tires on my Saabs in the past and have been very satisfied.

Mike

Yep just the rears were bought & mounted........as for OEM - my Z was bought used with the Toyos. I'm not sure how the OEM's run.

'Nuff Said........;)

As for TRACTION - these are definitely better than the Toyos.

AAAAARRRRGGG! :banghead: Says the man setting here with a brand new set of TOYOs on his track car because the Verdesteins I tried to buy weren't available two months ago when it was time to buy tires. Oh well, they're track tires, they won't be around long. :rolleyes:

Don't get too bent out of whack - at least until we ask a couple of questions. Are we comparing traction of your new tires to used or new Toyos? And are we comparing traction in the same conditions of climate and roadway? Secondly I am assuming the reference is to straight line traction, as it would be impossible to measure lateral forces with two different tires front to rear as well as using new rears and old fronts.

AND he is probably talking about T1-R street tires, not R compound Toyos like you probably bought for track tires.

Why would it matter? Have you already forgotten the wisdom our resident expert shared with us? Remember the info in that article is 100% useless b/c they didn't use C5Z's in the test! We could take it even further and say they didn't use YOUR specific car in the test. Remember if something is off by a pubic hair, it changes everything 100%! Move a sway bar a whisper and our F1 SC's can become lawn mower tires!

No, it is absolutely incorrect that information needs to be or should be presented in such a manner. ;)

You know I've got to tell you T, I'm new here and find alot of your "information" very usefull. However sometimes your "comments" are phrased in such a way that you come accross condisending. Like your above comments. We're not stupid you know, I mean we all here did make a smart enough decision to buy a Vette in the first place. You should consider driveing your car on the street once in a while to get your head out of the clouds er off the race track.
And stupid as you may think it is some of us actually do care what the tire LOOKS like. You have a wealth of knowledge to share, but may some times fall on deaf ears because of your demeanor.

Just a thought

Correct assumption - straight line traction only........

And the Toyos are/were R-1 proxies.......

Keep in mind that when I say better traction - the significant difference is noticed in wet weather or on bumpy surfaces. On a nice clean dry paved road, the Toyos perform well. Any surface irregularites or water causes a performance loss.

After driving home today in wet weather (raining the entire way), I'll say this much - you hafta work at it a bit to break the rearend loose......kinda like dry pavement. Moderate acceleration won't do it (and I don't mean moderate coming from a lead-foot). I'll put these tires up against any Goodyear, Michelin, or Firestone.

I bet my lateral G-force is greater too. :thumbs:

Well it's certainly positive to hear that your results so far are that the rain evacuation is better that it would appear based on the design. I'm real curious to know what happens when they're on all four corners and you go through standing water. Looks can be a deception, but it looks as though it would tend to move toward one side as the water passes through the rather agressive angle tread pattern heading in the same direction on both sides of the car.

Unfortunately that article is images instead of text and can't be translated by a utility such as http://babelfish.altavista.com/ - however, as I've said, our tires and vehicle are enough different that there's still no telling what the result would be for us. It's not uncommon for tire tests using multiple vehicles to result in a different order for each vehicle as there are a lot of variables at work. For example, a narrower tire like the 245 they used is going to pass through standing water significantly better than our 295 ever will - and with much less effect caused by however the water is evacuated by the tread pattern.

EDIT: KBreese in his sarcasm up there actually does point something out. If you fiddle with the ride height and change the pitch of the vehicle you can get better or worse results depending on the tire you're using. Some of our tire choices like a little more level pitch in order to put some more weight on the rear, others will squirt right out from under you when you do that. Using the F1 Supercars and the way I have my vehicle setup (more flat than stock, but I'm without the measurements at the moment) the rear will come out on corner exits but is extremely easy to control and can be either held out there or brought back very smoothly with a change in the accelerator pedal. In contrast, with the stock pitch it wanted to snap out and back in a rather abrupt fashion that cost time and was dangerous. Obviously in a tire test you take into consideration that an adjustment on the vehicle may benefit the result, but unless you have a lot of tires to test with you don't get to explore that generally.