All 84 vette man. and auto have D36 Rears

Wrong. The 84 came with a D36 whether auto or manual. The D44 driveshaft and c-beam are an inch shorter.

This swap is very cost effective if you have an '84 manual car, or an automatic car and want a stick. For folks with D44's the cost of shortening the driveshaft might be prohibitive. I had a budget I went with for swapping my 700R4 to a manual transmission. Budget was about $1200 total, for everything I needed. If I had to spend another $250 shortening a driveshaft, it would lend more to the case of just going with a ZF trans. If someone is willing to shorten a driveshaft for less than $100, than it's a different story. Everyone I called around here wanted $250+ because it's aluminum. Luckily my rear is D36.

Then again, even if I got sick of the T5 I'm not sure if I'd use the ZF's pull style clutch setup. I'd probably be on the phone with LD85 on how to make the hydraulic TOB work.

-- Joe

I did a Trans-plant on my 84 yanking out the 4+3 and installing a ZF. I used the stock c-beam and driveshaft. You don't need a shorter ds and cbeam unless you have the D44.

Not on a ZF swap, but the T5 is 1" longer so you need to use a D44 driveshaft with a D36, or if you have a D44 have it shortened by an inch.

-- Joe

The front of the beam is in the same place whether you've got a D44 or a D36. (As evidenced by the 4+3 '84 and A4 '85 using the same D36 and beam, and by the 4+3 using with the D36 and D44 in 84 and 85.

What Joe's saying is, with the longer T5, you need to shorten the beam. Just happens that D36 cars can simply bolt-in the shorter D44 beam. D44 cars though don't have anything shorter to put in so they have to modify their beam.

This is a great thread and since I have a 4+3, I am watching with great interest. Many thanks to the pioneers that are keep us posted on the results.

I have two questions:

First, if it is going to cost over $250 to get a driveshaft shortened, was there a way to get the standard length one in, before the C-Beam is bolted up? That might be a pain, but for $250 it might be manageable......

Second, with regards to the modification of the shifter, is this necessary in order to make it come up in the stock location? Would it be possible to just modify the console, or would that put the shifter too far over to the right? I am thinking it might be easier to make a plate to go over the top of the console and leave the shifter in the middle.

thanks again

Yes. Bolt the driveshaft in while the trans is dipping, jack it up slowly until the cbeam is lined up, then bolt the cbeam in. Joby did this on his D44 swap, and I tried it. (had the rev1 adapter in and out about 8 times!). Doable, yes. Would I have done it to save $250? You bet. But I was lucky enough to get a d44 driveshaft from vette2vette for under $75.

You bet, it will come up in the dead center, with a bias to the front. You still need to make the shifter straight, either by heating it up or cutting and rewelding it OR use a mustang shifter. If you use a mustang shifter it will come up in the dead center. This is how pro-street does their conversions, they actually make a plate that will go into the center console.

Personally, i'd rather have my shifter in the stock location. I understand the trade off as pointed out by CC.

I just noticed you are from Mass. I invite you to come visit my shop any time you'd like to take a look at things first hand.
Once the car is finished you can take it for a spin as well.

-- Joe

When it comes straight up, is it too far forward, I mean will you be hitting your knuckles on the radio knobs? If that is the case and the shifter needs to be modified anyway, then it may be easier to use the stock location.

I would love to come and check out your shop, maybe on a nice day, you can pick me up at the airport.

ok since i have a d36 can i just get my driveshaft shortened or do i have to buy a d44 driveshaft.

Sounds good to me. Nice looking plane btw. Maybe one day I'll afford one.

The shifter is tilted so the stick wouldn't come too close to the radio, but would still be far forward for us guys who sit way back.

-- Joe

Either.
Buying one should be cheaper though.

Or even just install the one you have before lifting the trans in place.

I've been working on the plow truck lately but I took 20 minutes today to finish the shifter. The magic number ended up being 2" back, and 3" to the left, with a 20* angle. I'll take some pix this week.

The shifter base hits the cup holder bottoms BTW, which may not be acceptable fro some folks. A mustang shifter might give a little more clearance, but the cup holder (forward one) is going to need to be trimmed out of the shifter plate to make this work.

The shifter "rise" isn't really that noticeable.

It's almost done. I gotta button up a few things but overall the swap is doable. I'm gonna re-word some of the how-to with the disclaimers (i.e, things you'll have to live with).

-- Joe

Since one of the cupholders needs to go anyway, if you had it to do over, would you still go with the stock location or leave the shifter in the middle?

thanks for all your effort and sharing on this.

I don't know. Its kinda a long reach. If the shifter went into the stock T5 location, 5th gear is going to be within an inch or so of the right side of the radio.

I have another shifter concern, and thats the height of the stick. I feel like it's too tall, but don't have another vette to compare it to. Anyone got a pic of their interior for comparison?

-- Joe

Joe,
Not sure if this is close enough for you to get anything from, but the shifter is in neutral and the top of the shifter is about at the bottom of the radio opening. I'd be happy to get some closer shots or even take some measurements if you'd like. This is the stock 4+3 shifter.
http://www.corvetteforum.net/c4/rayq...s/interior.jpg

Hi. Thanks for that picture. If you could measure how far from the console plate UP it is, that would be great. It seems too high on mine, but it could be just me..

Thank you!

-- Joe

I measured 5" up from the console to the top of the shifter when it is in reverse.

Joe,
My 4+3 always felt too high with the stock stick. I think it's mainly the seating position, the console is so high to start with. Is the McLeod shifter adjustable for height? Is it shorter than yours?

BTW, what other problems have you run into? You said you were posting some more "things to live with"

interesting thread.....I will put TKO 500 Tremec Keisler, just so I can find it in a search in the future.

ok i have some questions, first off i bought the cbeam adapter 2 days ago also i have found a transmission i was wondering if anyone has a d44 driveshaft for sale on here also wht will have to be done to make this shifter work, the clutch and the bellhousing are the same as the 4+3 correct. what else do i have to worry about on this swap. thanks

Call vette2vette on the driveshaft.

If you can weld, get a mustand shifter and modify it to the specs in my swap howto. If you cannot weld you'll have to get someone to weld it for you.

Clutch and BH are the same, yes.

-- Joe

Have we had a road test yet??

i will be converting from a 700R4......will a 4+3 clutch/ brake pedal set fit my 1991?

Nope. Have a 5ft mount of snow in fromt of my garage door.

oh well.

-- Joe

Yeah.

-- Joe

excuse my stupidity, but can i use pedals meant for a ZF-6 car for the clutch and brake?

Yes. Same thing.

-- Joe

cool, didnt see why there would be a difference, just wasnt 100% sure

thanx!

The hydraulics are different of course, but the pedals are the same.
Might want to drop Central coaster a PM though. A lot of my initial ZF vs 4+3 knowledge was from the FAQ and posts on here, which have turned out to be pretty bogus information. I've driven a few ZF cars and only had one apart for a clutch job back in 2003.

-- Joe

true true


spent many sunday afternoons swapping T5's in and out of my camaros after grenading them
this should be a relatively easy swap from the looks of it

Hello,

Can anyone tell me the proper shifter position (length of transmission from front of bellhousing to center of shifter) for early C4's?

Does anyone have a 4+3 out of the car they can measure?

I am considering an alternative transmission for a swap.

Ben,

Wouldn't it be the same as the ZF-6? Shifters come up in same position.
I didn't modify anything when I did swap on my 84.

Hi Dom,

Yes, it will be the same as a ZF, but I don't know what that dimension is.. I have searched and searched without any luck....

I am considering a R154 (supra turbo) transmission as they are readily available here. I have a friend who has used one behind a LT5 for 4 or 5 years without any issues.

If the shifter position is ok, I will investigate further. Bellhousing and clutch are readily available.

If the Supra trans works behind an LT5, its using a deeper BH and consequently a longer input shaft than the one for an SBC. I think the diff is about 1.25". Someone else could verify.
Good to hear from you again. How's the 383 running?

The supra-LT5 BH was a one off.. The supra-SBC BH's are available off the shelf here from at least 3 manufacturers that I know of. Its been done a thousand times in other cars with small chevy's.

I have barely driven my car in the last year.. Work, baby and life in general... you know :)
I'll be back into it soon though. I have a pile of parts to go in, and I have a lift also now, so that makes it all the more enjoyable to work on too!

I think I have one on the floor from a supra turbo we blew up a few years ago. I remember looking at it a few times. Anyhow, the transmission is needs to be 30-31" from bell housing to tail shaft. The shifter needs to be at the 30" mark, and about 3" over to the left from dead center.

-- Joe

ZF6 swap
 

OK I am new too this but I see this is mostley about ZF6 speeds. I have an odd problome. I have a 85 corvette with a custom built zz4 383 storker. The car was a 4+3 to start it has a 700R4 raptor setup in it now that was put in for drag racing and a valve body setup went bad and blew the clutch packs in it. The car still has the clutch pedal and slave for the 4+3..IN fact I have to put the clutch down to start it still. I picked up a ZR1 zf6 speed for a very good price but I have no bellhousing or clutch. I want to put this in the car. What do I need? was the drive shaft changed for the 700R4? Do I need a new one for the ZF or since it was a 4+3 does it line up? what other parts do I need?

The ZR-1 ZF has a longer input shaft. Won't fit right on an SBC. :(

Did the snow melt yet??

No but we plowed the lot out. Car moved about 10 feet then I hit ice. pulled it back in, and started taking it apart again. The setup works fine driving it on the lift. I can't imagine anyone would run into a problem on the street.

-- Joe

ZF6 swap
 

OK well.. I dont get it. Dont people put the zf6 with the standared L-98 motor all the time, The L-98 also comes with a 700r4. and I have one in my car now with the zz4?. and the car That the ZR1 transmission came out of was a show car with a 502 create motor. ITs a black tag transmission. IS there any way i can put this tranny to my ZZ4? And if so do you think the drive shaft was changed for the 4+3 to 700R4 swap that was done or is it the same?

Just because its a black tag doesn't make it a ZR-1 ZF. A ZR-1 trans can be used on a small block, but the shifter is going to be 1" further. GM used the longer input shaft for the ZR because the ZR motor was 1" shorter than the standard SBC. The bellhousing for a ZR-1 is also longer for the spacing. So there are 2 versions of the ZF-6 for the C4. You need the version for the regular 89-96 C4s, not the ZR-1. I put a black tag in my 84 so I have some experience with this.
Either that or replace the input shaft. :sadangel:

Ok well I thought the ZR1 ZF 6-speed was black and the others were blue for the standard C4s. but I guess some early models had the black ones as well thanks for letting me know.. Anyway I was told this was from a ZR1.. I found this tranny when, I was looking for Zf-6 speeds on the net. Well what do you know. the next week I go to my friends fathers body shop and the guy has one sitting on his shelf in his shop. and I was like {wow is that not a a ZF 6 speed out of a corvette?} and he said he thought it was from a ZR1 corvette and he had it in his chevy 2 with a 502. He did not like how close the gears were in the ZF and the 6th gear was useless with his set up and gears. and he is putting in a richmond instead. anyway He sold it to me for 400 bucks! I think mostley becuse hes my friends father and He dosnt like seeing muscle cars not on the road lol. Well I know I got a sick deal On the ZF? but now to figer out if its a ZR1 or reguler one. The tranny is pantied ferrari red like his chevy 2. But I will try to take a picture of it or somthing? It looks the same as the other ZF 6 speeds I have found? in the mean time is there a way I can tell by messuring the shaft?

Phat,

Go to this website, www.zfdoc.com. Bill Boudreau is very good and very helpful. He knows ZFs like the back of his hand and should be able to give you the info you need.

The last picture of the shifter does not show up. Great job and thanks for blazing the trail. Never know when my 4+3 will die. :cheers:

Hey Anesth you are a beast....I will be using your tutorial and doing the swap on my 90....Any pitfals because of the difference in year???

Hope you can drive it soon:flag:

I don't see any issue on a 90. I assume we're talking A4 to T5 swap.

Good luck and let me know how it works out.

-- Joe

a little warning....
 

I love the robust nature of this swap , I really do. Its exciting to see a group of people all chip in and try to make something work. As most know here I've rebuilt the 4+3 for years, sold parts to GM for these, was a rebuilder for GM and dealerships many years and sold my tooling and hard parts to Brian of SK speed years ago.

The warning is the following: The 4+3 transmission assembly was prone to cracking the mid section bearing plate on the bottom due to case flex imparted by loads of the C-Beam.

Not to burst anyone's bubble here, but you should be concerned about the loads you are expecting these very thin T5 tails to take. What I would worry about is the shift rail binding due to flex as well as the rear bushing wiping out due to case flex.

You may want to secure the mount pad to something else to make your flex path shorter. Don't forget that Camaro T5 had a mount to the frame having the T5 float on the back could be a potential problem. Most of the time when that gimmick is tried out you will find the upper ears where the tail attaches to the case snap.

Carry on.

Paul
www.5speeds.com

Paul,

Very interesting. And you bring up some great points. So I would imagine that the ZF was built with those issues taken into consideration. Correct?

You think the 700R4 was built that way too?

-- Joe

I'd be similarly curious to know if Keisler beefed up the tailshaft of their TKO swap. They rate the tranny at 500+ hp and I know there are guys on this board who thrash theirs pretty hard. The tailshaft appears to be stock TKO with an offset shifter. In fact, the bolt-on cover the TKO tailshaft has ought to make it rather weak in that area.

Atleast the T5 was designed, in some aspect, to have a mount at the tailshaft. In a Camaro, the T5 tailshaft mount takes much the same twisting force as in the C4.

In my car, which will soon have a T5, I have poly engine mounts and poly diff bushings. The amount of twist should be atleast somewhat limited in this respect. I would think the force required to twist and deform the T5 tailshaft would first break my D36 rear. I suppose time will tell...

Same thing, but I tell you. The keisler shifter is pretty trick!

Well the fbody case was. You can see by the webbing and such that it's meant to handle some rear loads. I mean, you have a hopped up thirdgen and you launch with slicks and a LOT of energy pushes up on that tailshaft. I've broken tons of trans mounts over the years.

the Cbeam adapter pro street made (as you now know) bolts up in numerous spots, rather than loading just the very tail of the transmission. I think it should be fine. If you have enough power to brake T5 cases, then do one of the following:

1) Buy a few spare tail shafts
2) Consider a different transmission.

Thats my 2 cents on that issue.

My cbeam is twisted to crap on my '87. I think you will be fine. And T5's are cheap. Just don't miss third gear :)

-- Joe

Well, you are one of the trans experts 'round here Joe. I do have the power to destroy a T5 in my car (383 @ ~425 horses). Thing is, I don't race (can't afford the broken parts) and I figure as long as I keep street tires on the car I'll break traction long before I break a tranny. Not really worried either. I am curious, though, what twisted enough to allow you to break a T5 mount (soft motor mounts, driveshaft bottoming out in the yoke, etc?).

I'm no trans expert. Theres just some things I like about cars more than others. Infact, I'm not an expert in anything. I grew up in a shop/dealership doing cars, got sick of it. Did computer engineering for almost 10 years, got sick of it. Doing police stuff for 5 now.


I wish I dynoed my 355 before I stripped the car. Thing trapped 119-120mph every pass in the 1/4, with 1.60-1.70 60 foot times. 3650 lbs with me in it. That HAD to be near 500hp. Never broke a T5 racing it.

Anyhow, the thirdgen rear end has two lower control arms on the bottom, two coil springs, a panhard bar and a torque arm. The torque arm is the only thing that keeps the rear end from rotating since there is no upper control arms. It's like a third member, or a 3-link. hah. Anyway, when you give it gas, the arm pushes up on the transmission; when you downshift, the rear end attempts to rotate downward and pulls on the tailshaft.

So if you hit it hard enough, the torque arm will lift on the transmission ripping the mount in two, and the transmission then hits the floor and scares the crap out of the driver if it's the first time. The torque arm is not bolted directly to the tailshaft, instead a torque arm mount is bolted to the tailshaft, and the torque arm fits through a rubber coupling in the mount. This allows the torque arm to move a little with the suspension travel (since its a live axle, not fixed like a C4).

-- Joe

I get it. So, in a way, the C4 might actually be a bit less stressful on a T5 tailshaft than an FBody?

With the only disclaimer that I do not have a masters in mechanical engineering, yes I think so.

-- Joe

Actually Joe, I have a degree in mechanical engineering ;)

Eh, then you should know more than me! :)

-- Joe

The ZF is MASSIVE compared to the T5 and rock solid.

No, it does not because the CAMARO application USES the mount pad....that was the point I was trying to make. So now you are eliminating a mount point, do that in the Camaro and the transmission smashes up against the floor. It was just a point to bring up since as I said the factory cases cracked. The T5 extension cannot be compared to the beef of a TKO, ZF, or factory casting.

There is no float in this application, and unlike the Camaro it must be locked solid. I'm am not saying it won't work, but its just a point to consider.

Interesting point Paul (5Speeds). I'm glad that you added to this thread.

I wonder if a strut rod(s) would be of any benifit? (Similar to struts found on 4WD transfer case to transmission assemblies). 'Not sure where to mount them though, where it would actually help take some of the torsional stress.

Years ago on the S-10 T5's there was a lower fin on the tail that reinforcement straps bolted to that "V"'d out into the bell. The idea was to keep the assembly from twisting. Something like this may help, but the cracking problem existed on the factory 4+3 anyway. People always thought it was just a bolt leaking on the bottom of the case mid section, but actually the case would crack at that point and oil would like around the gasket and out of the crack.

Any one who has a gear lube leak at where the OD unit meets the adapter basically has a cracked section.

paul i just sent you a pm, thanks man.

Hmmm, that ma actually explain my current gear oil leak in my 4+3. It's leakin' out somewhere, and I think it's between the sections. Is the 4-speed part cracked or the OD part? OD still works...

Tak some brake cleaner and clean up the mid section casting. Its usually dead enter on the bottom. The casting is thin there and cracks from flex..

The fix is simple actually. When I use to rebuild those units, there are 2 12 point bolts that fasten the adapter housing to the 4 speed ( inside). The gasket basically seals the upper portion of the lower hole, but doesn't surround the complete bolt hole. So when it cracks the oil goes into the hole and out the bottom.

What I did was after every 4 speed rebuild was fill the hole with epoxy BEFORE bolting on the OD, so in the event it ever did crack the oil could never leak out.

You would need to pull the trans, remove the OD and seal the hole and of course use a new gasket.

With a little imagination, you can do just about anything.

I ended up installing a Jerico 4-sp box (race prepped T-10 top loader) in my C4.

It weighs just over 60#. It has straight cut gears for clutchless shifting. You can stack your gears in multiple ratio's. Good to 800 ft/lbs torque.

Hey just bought my t-5 and also I bought the adapter a little while ago so soon ill be able to get started

:iagree: I just got my ZF. It is MASSIVE!

I'm most of the way through this. Cutting is done, and the trans went in for test fitting. I'm currently waiting on a stupid little plastic thing I lost while swapping out the tailshaft.

Did you get around to test mounting the shifter? Curious how it feels.
I thought it was a little high, until I got the ZF6. Seems as if GM designed these to shift like dump trucks.

-- Joe

Nah, I haven't finished cutting the side out of the console yet (the part still attached to the car, not the shifter cover part). I'm gonna snap pics of the shifter and the patching when I get back on track so you can add pics of a 4+3 tunnel to your writeup. It's different than the auto tunnel.

The dealer is supposedly getting me the T5 part I lost, but it won't be here til late this week (which means probably next week). Ah, well, that'll teach me. You might wanna add a pic of the oiler thingy to your writeup and tell people to make sure they look after it ;)

Hey Joe, been meaning to ask, I picked up a "Spectre" rubber boot (cheap chinese copy of a hurst boot). The large one. The trans sits off to one side of the hole I've made in the tunnel. I should center the boot over where the stick actually sits when in neutral, not over the center of the trans, right? Otherwise the boot will always be cocked way to the left and might make the sifter hard to hit 1st in.

Still gotta find me a 'Stang lever and ball. No junkyards around here got one. What year/model am I looking for?

I'd sit it wherever it won't interfere with the shifter. I was going to put t over the shifter so the slot was inline with the center of the shifter base. The movement is less closer to the shifter base, so I imagine it wouldn't tug on the boot as much there.

Pix will be nice. I get emails all the time about this swap. It's becoming popular.

-- Joe

4+3 swap
 

how does the speedometer connect if you swap a 4+3 to 5 or 6 speed?

It's in the swap article, but to reiterate, you used an electronic VSS from an 86-90 firebird.

I guess you could probably use an electronic VSS from any thirdgen fbody, if you swap the connector.

-- Joe

Should have called me up! I have every part for most T5 transmissions....

He lost that stupid plastic nipple and roller bearing that connects the external gear to the rear case.

-- Joe

I got it and got it back in. All is well. THe car is moving, but I haven't road-tested it truly yet. I posted pics in a new thread.

They make a bracket for the T-5 7 t-56
 

They make a bracket for the T-5 & T-56.
I can't remember who makes it.

No kidding. :banghead:

-- Joe

Does anyone have a longer term usage with results to post?

Theres 1 or 2 guys who made their own bracket. If you search, you'll find one of them still posts here. Hes got a couple years of use out of it.

As far as the pro-street bracket goes, it's only been available for a few months. I have had some emails off site from non-members who have done it, but we're still talking only 2-3 months tops.

-- Joe

Ok will do. Thanks Joe.

:bump: anyone have a road test report of a T5 swap?

I'm still collecting parts for my swap.

Give Jleatherman a shout. He completed his last month if I recall.

-- Joe

Sadly I've still not gotten my exhaust squared away enough for a road test. Work and such, y'all know how it gets sometimes...

Ive had Pro Streets t-56 conversion in my 86 for over two years now and couldnt be happier. Ive got alot of hsp and have not been gentle on the car and its just as solid as the day that I installed it. As far as the t-56 goes I havent ever heard of anyone blowing one ,thats the reason that I chose it over the zf-6,-- + too many syncro problems and to expensive to rebuild.:cheers:

Although most of this thread was dedicated to the T5 bracket, I'd love to see some pix of your T56 setup if you have some.

I agree with the ZF6 stuff. The ZF6 was also more of a PITA to install on my car, required more cuttings and more expensive parts, the clearances all the way up to the stupid starter are absolutely insane.

AND they shift goofy.

-- Joe

Joe, have you completed your ZF6 swap using 4+3 hydraulics? How does it feel? You gonna do a T56 next?

No, the 4+3 hydraulics wouldn't work. I got angry, and tried the ZF6 hydraulics. That was a nightmare too.

Then the starter bit me. If the block is like a few thousands different than a production LT1, the starter is a PITA to bolt up.

My ZF6 swap ended up costing about $1800. Stick with the T5...

I'm gonna run it until it explodes. When it does I'll push it in the river and buy a C5..

-- Joe

They make a kit for the T5
 

Last week a guy posted a web site prostreetcustoms.net
They make a kit for the C4 T-56 & the T-5 Transmissions.
I would go with the T-56 / 6 speed myself
Also, I went to the web site to look at their Truss Bar. Iam going to order one next week. I talked to the the owner Tom and he said the he has enough stock to make 23 bars and he's going to stop making them.
He say's It's getting harder to have the rear locators made. GM stop making them. So if you want to buy one, you better order it soon.
:cheers:

Tom Gasper is a good guy.

-- Joe

I'd only go with the T56 if you've got a ZF6 car to start with. The rear in my 4+3 car (3.07) doesn't need the extra OD. The T5 bracket from ProStreet is what I used (after Joe used it) and it seems to work just fine. I spoke with Tom before my T5 swap about the T56 and it's a good choice, very strong etc, but it was out of my price range. I hunted around my area and good used LT1 T56's seemed to be bringing $1200+. I picked up a good T5 for $50, changed the tailshaft housing and speedo gears for another $75, and spent maybe $350 on the bracket/shifter/miscellaneous. It was a bit more work than I expected, but not that bad and I got the whole thing done for less than $500.

And that's really the whole point right there. For 4+3 guys looking for something better to replace the 4+3 on the cheap, a T5 is the way to go.

And I'm not talking crap either, I've done the T5 AND the ZF6 swap. The ZF6 swap is a pita and it costs way more, 6th us useless as you suggested without a rear-end swap, etc. Don't listen to the "bogus" guys on 'the other site'. Half of them don't do their own mechanical work..

-- Joe

hey I have the t-5 in the car now didnt do the shifter yet, but have been taking it out a few times without the boot and center piece in, WOW this car is so much more fun hits second way harder than it used to, way more fun since the swap.

Well I don't doubt the T5 is a good swap, but I did my own ZF-6 swap, in the winter, on my back and in the garage. Installed Fidanza while I was down there. Never regretted it. Added a Hurst to it and 3.45 D44 rear. Really nice combo. 6th gear gives you thr option of some shorter rear gearing.
Taking out the 4+3, along with adding C5 brakes really changes the 84 especially with Z51 .

My ZF6 swap was way more involved than the T5. Most of it was running around for research. The starter pissed me off, and I had the cut out the hole in the floor a little more. The hydraulics were a bit more expencive.

Overall I'd rather have the ZF because I do think its stronger, and it sorta just 'belongs there'. The swap didn't cost me anywhere near what folks say though. $1500 is a joke, it cost me closer to 2k when I was done. Maybe $1500 for everything used and near non-functioning condition. I had to buy new hydraulics, a hose, new clutch, flywheel, ZR1 pivot for flywheel, then a starter cuz the stupid offset BH. I still think they shift kinda goofy though, and it sounds like rocks in a clothes dryer at idle. really bad.. Of course, my 16lbs singlemass flywheel and unsprung clutch disc and the fact that it's a black tag ZF6 don't help.

-- Joe

shifter is done, it looks sweet will try get some pics soon

I'd like to see some pics! I wasn't too thrilled about the mod I made to the shifter, but John seemed to think it was OK.

Can't be any worse than the ZF6 shifter though. The thing shifts from 1st to 2nd like the shifter on a riding mower.

-- Joe