Cam recommendations 540 Build 1966 Coupe
 

I am trying to obtain some real world cam specifications, everything on line is for 454's or 502's nothing larger. Cams recommended for a street performace 540: -Comp Cams 294HR 242/248 Dur, Lift 540/560 L 110, lift seems low. Crane HR 240 139681 Dur 240/248, Lift 621/632. L 112. I do not plan to race this car, but want this car to go and sound fast.The basics:
- Car 1966 427/425 stock motor removed, want a driver, that is a sleeper looks stock, but not. Currently the body is off fame and I am re doing the supension and chassis. Richmond 5 speed 4:10 1 st - 4th, 5th 3:08, Tom's complete rear end, evething except 12 bolt. Guldstrand springs, VB upgrades. I have a new/old never used Mark IV Bowtie Block 10051107 that will be bored to 4.500. Want to use GM Signature Series Aluminum Oval port heads, 2.25 int / 1.88 ex. I want to show car in NCCC, 10 changes for modified class. Using Vintage AC, pwr steering, might add pwr brakes. - JE Pistons Compression between 10 to 10:5, street car want to use pump gas. - Intake stock Big Block 069 66 high rise dual plane modified, or Eldebrock Perform RPM. Would like to use Callies crank and high end rods, probably not required. Stahl side exhaust into modified 2 3/4 ID side pipes. I have Sandersons block hugger headers which I used on the 427, but these would really choke a 540. 10 inch tires(safety valve), offset trailing arms, upgraded brakes/rotors, and upgraded cooling system. Sorry for the lengthy description but need help with a good cam for my 540 that will make 650/700 hp, 650 tq in RPM range of 1800-6500. Are these numbers a dream? In addition can anyone recommend a engine builder in South Florida. Thanks

I went with a solid roller using 266*/272* duration @.050, .700" lift, and 108*LSA (that'll give it the sound you wanted) for my street Hotrod. 10.75:1 cr, AFR 335cc CNC heads, 2.300 and 1.88 valves, with 2 1/8 header primaries. Still haven't finished the engine yet, but other Monster Motor guys are quite happy running similar setups, though with a bit wider LSA. Give some thought to a cam in this ballpark, with a single plane intake like a Victor Jr and a big Holley. Caution, you may not be able to remove the grin from your face after driving it, since it may make around 100hp more than you called for.

I originally had the CC242/248 110 in my 427 small block. not enough solid roller for me. So this time i installed a 248/250 .685/.715 110 LSA

Your head choice might be on the small side for 540 ci

Crane makes these two H-rollers.

Camshaft Specification Card BACK TO LIST
Part Number: 139651 Grind Number: HR-306-2S-14 IG
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1967 Up CHEVROLET 8 ROUGH IDLE, PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD MID AND UPPER RPM HP, BRACKET RACING, AUTO TRANS W/3500+ CONVERTER, MARINE PERFORMANCE, 3800-4200 CRUISE RPM, FOR 500+ CU. IN. ENGINES, 10.5 TO 12.5 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 3800-7000
Engine Size Configuration
396-454 C.I. V

Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT

Lift: Intake @Cam 372 @Valve 632 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 372 @Valve 632
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 40.0 BTDC 86.0 ABDC 306 °
Exhaust 94.0 BBDC 44.0 ATDC 318 °

Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 99896
Loads Closed 150 LBS @ 1.900 or 1 29/32
Open 466 LBS @ 1.290
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 3000
Maximum RPM 6400
Valve Float 6800

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 13.0 BTDC 51.0 ABDC 109 244 °
Exhaust 67.0 BBDC 9.0 ATDC 119 256 °


**************************************** *************
Part Number: 139661 Grind Number: HR-318-2S-14 IG
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1967 Up CHEVROLET 8 ROUGH IDLE, PERFORMANCE USAGE, GOOD UPPER RPM HP, BRACKET RACING, AUTO TRANS W/3500+ CONVERTER, MARINE PERFORMANCE, 4000-4400 CRUISE RPM, FOR 540+ CU. IN. ENGINES, 11.0 MINIMUM COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 4000-7200
Engine Size Configuration
396-454 C.I. V

Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT

Lift: Intake @Cam 372 @Valve 632 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 372 @Valve 632
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.70

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 46.0 BTDC 92.0 ABDC 318 °
Exhaust 98.0 BBDC 48.0 ATDC 326 °

Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 99896
Loads Closed 150 LBS @ 1.900 or 1 29/32
Open 466 LBS @ 1.290
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 3600
Maximum RPM 6600
Valve Float 7200

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 19.0 BTDC 57.0 ABDC 109 256 °
Exhaust 71.0 BBDC 13.0 ATDC 119 264 °

c66 it would be very helpful to find out what cfm the heads flowed at
different lifts... if you don't know this then cam recomendations are going to be a guess..and the guess could be wrong.
My from the hip gander is that the heads are going to be a restrictive
choice for the 540..

Here is a Flow Data chart for RHS 360cc port Big Block heads.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...FlowDataJP.jpg

Unfortunately GM doesn't provide these charts like most of the
aftermarket head mfg's do.... so you can either have your heads flow checked at a competent machine shop... find the flow in a magazine or
on a website, or just not know.

The HP potential of a head is generally about 2hp for every 1 cfm
of flow.... so a head that flows 300cfm at .500 lift of camshaft has
the theoretic potential of 600hp...
You also want to match your port CC's to the engine size you are
using.... GM, again, often doesn't list these figures.
For a 540 you are going to want heads that flow between 270cfm to 420 cfm between .500 to .700 lift... port CC's between 310cc to 390 cc's
The more CFM's a head flows with smaller port CC's... the more efficient and well designed the head... and generally the better throttle
response you will get without sacrificing top end power.

Biggest CFM's with the smallest CC's... that's what you want..
If you are picking between 2 heads that seem fairly equal in these
regards.... look at the low lift figures.. the cfm's flowing at .300 and
.400... the head with better low lift numbers is usually considered the
better head.
600hp to 700hp should be a fairly easy mark to make if you choose
your parts to match... that's a powerful street engine...
Good Luck.:thumbs:

I want to thank 540Rat, Gkull, and KyleDallas for the valuable input and help. It seems things are not always straight forward, just putting parts together is not the answer. I see that I have to do more homework with the cam and heads. I believe that cam lifts in the 630/650 range is where I want to be, I'm not sure of the LSA I believe the tigher the LSA the rougher the idle. I read in a previous thread that a 112 LSA in a 540 will act like a 110 in a 454, 110 like a 108. I do not want to shake the car apart. I'm interested in hearing the outcome of 540Rat's engine. I will look at bigger heads, I have always heard that rectangle heads were to big for a street car, this is why I went with oval port heads. Based on the information biggest CFM's and small CC's, but I do not want to lose the low end torque. I was trying to use GM heads, I may look at the GM rectangle heads and try to find out if anyone has any experience with these heads. Othewise there is Brodix, Dart, and AFR who all provide flow and lift infomation. I have ordered Performace Trends Engine Analyzer software to help me with my parts selections. Thanks again. Bob

There are quite a few 540's around here. In various stages of *radical-ness*.

One is in ML67's '67 Coupe. It's nearly identical to 540Rat's...except for LSA...same cam...just on a 112 LSA. He runs a Richmond 5 speed with 3.08's. He's making 702 RWHP last time out!!

TNBusa just dyno'd his with 315 AFR heads and a relatively mild Crane Hyd roller and made like 719 flywheel HP...and it still had at least another 20 or so left in it with tuning.

Mine has been through a couple of versions. First version used unported as cast Brodix 365cc port heads, 10.5 compression, a 262/273 .675/.678 lift on a 112 solid roller, a Team G intake and it made 732 HP. But power fell off rapidly after 6500 rpm. Next version had the same heads professionally ported, a 272/278 .731/.731 lift cam on a 112. It also got a new Super Victor Intake. Made 825HP@ 7400 rpm.....went a little further than I had planned. It now has everything else the same, but it has a 266/272 cam on a 112 with same .731 lift. I haven't dyno'd it yet...but it tremendously picked up when playing at the track, plus lots better manners.

VetteManiac had a 540 in his C-3 (now installing a 638"!!) that he literally drove on the street to work everyday in Dallas traffic. He started with GM/Edelbrock (that's who makes those heads for GM) rectangular ports, a 230'ish Hyd roller with 114 LSA and approx. .600 lift. He used a factory 427/425 hi-rise type intake. The engine was basically a great big truck motor..on the dyno it was strangling for air at any rpm above 5000. It peaked at 410RWHP at 4900 rpm or so I think. He later had heads ported very nicely, changed cam to a 240'ish one with similar lift, changed to a Holley Strip Dominator intake (picked up 30 RWHP alone!!) and a 1000cfm HP Holley carb (up from the 850). When all was done, he was at nearly 500 RWHP..but it was still having breathing issues with his small exhaust.

To debunk the big head myth a little...he installed a set of AFR CNC 357cc heads which should be too large for this combo...and it made more HP on the top end AND on the bottom end. For sure you CAN go too big on heads..but when you are in the 540"+ range, it's important to have serious heads. Anything less with starve it.

My gut tells me that you aren't wanting anything as radical as Mark, Rick or I have....but TNBusa's (do a search) would probably be close. Only real change is cam timing. Solid rollers come with a need for a maintenance program if you drive them much on the street. I'm not a giant fan of Hyd rollers...but they do alright in some cases. I would probably run a nice solid flat tappet so I could rev it out a little if I wanted to and keep decent performance.

If you want a deal on some pistons, ML67 has a real nice set of forged flat tops you could get for a good price. 4.500 bore.

I would forget the GM heads and go with aftermarket. AFR will work great, the ex ports are raised a little..but not as bad as Brodix. I like the Brodix castings. On the AFR's, the 315's or 335's would be perfect.

If you're interested we have a great contact for heads and stuff that treats you right and has great prices. He's in Ca, but he could build you an engine and ship it if needed.

Headers will likely need to be 2-1/8" for best overall power. 2" works fine up to 6200-6400 rpm range....but quickly choked my 540 on the dyno after that. Don't scrimp on rest of the exhaust. You need minimum of 3" pipes after headers.

There are lots of hyd roller cams out there these days if you are wanting to use one of them. If a solid is an option..things get even better.

A good intake is essential. You need air! ZL-1Power just did a 496 with a performer intake on Edelbrock rectangular ports and made nearly 700hp..but he used a solid roller. But I bet he was on the edge. I saw another test of a 496 with an RPM AirGap against an old C-454 Dominator flanged intale and the C-454 matched it, despite the use of a 2" spacer on the Air Gap. I know my Team G was holding mine back.


Keep us up to date and we can help you a lot and save you some grief. Good news is everything you're talking about has been done by some member of the group!


JIM

427Hotrod, thanks for the valuable information. You are correct I don't want a real radical engine. I am concerned about how the cam will act. idle quality. I know I want my cake, but I do not want a cam that shakes things apart. I would be interested in hearing how some of these engines idle and at what RPM. When you read the cam catalogs they state chopey, lopey, rough, and radical. I have heard that 540's and larger swallow up the cams specified for 454's. The idle and RPM range specified for the 454's would be different in a 540. This is why your experience and other real world input is so valuable.

Thanks for all the help. Bob

After reading your posts and others it looks like I will go with the AFR CNC 315 heads, Crane cam H-roller 244/256, Lift 632/632, LSA 112, RPM Performer, and a 950 Holley. As for the these and other parts I am interested in your contacts, in addition I am looking at Callies, JE, Oliver, and Lunati.

I have read some posts about a person named Harold who designs and build cams. What is the name of his company, does he do this for a business?

On the side exhaust I planned to use 2 3/4 pipes after the collector with aircarft stand off rivets attaching the stock corvette cover to the body. This rivet spaces the cover 1/2 inch from the body and not noticable enough unless you are really looking down at the exhaust covers. I think I can get a 3 inch pipe under there. Headers, I had planned on the 2 inch, because of clearance issues on the 2 1/8 inch pipes. The H-roller cam will be all out at 6200, don't know if there is anything to be gained with the extra 1/8 on a H-roller.

How do you keep drive shafts in your cars? Everywhere I beef up the rear end there is another weak link. Mine are the small tires which will break lose before anything else and the small univeral joints on the small drive shaft. I installed a T400 pinion yoke on the diff which effects my clearence and may be a potential issue. I do not want to change the T400 yoke to the smaller yoke, I spent a lot with Tom's and don't want to screw up the diff. I now require 2 offset u joints for the drive shaft because of body clearance issues and mismatch of components. I have 1/2 inch clearence between the yoke and the diff cross member bracket. Hoping the diff dose not move too much from the torque.

Call Mike Lewis. Tell him Hi from Jim!

http://www.lewisracingengines.com/

Mike is a great guy and will help you get the right parts at the right price. He can sell you the parts all balanced (the RIGHT way) or build you a motor or whatever. He can usually beat everyone on AFR prices as well as Isky parts.

The Performer will do OK...but a 540 has no need for a dual plane, especially with a stick trans and some gear. You're going to find that it will RPM awful quickly and that's when you find out having a 6200 rpm rev limit is a problem. You have to be ready to pull gears awful fast...or you'll over wind the hyd setup. That's why I like solid stuff....

For other cam ideas...go check GM performance. The hyd roller cams in the 572/620's are made by Crane (the solids in the 572/720's too). They are using about 10 more degrees duration than you are planning, but otherwise very similar and it still peaks at under 6000 rpm I think. I think you can get some downloads from them on sounds and dyno tests so you can get an idea of how they act.

Harold Brookshire is still in cam business. Try this number-662-301-1245....plan to spend some time talking to him.....but he can for sure build you a cam.

The 2-1/8" would be best overall......2" will work OK.....but 2-1/8" aren't too much of an issue. In fact on mine, they seem to fit much better with the raised port heads than they do with stock heads!

Too bad...Mark just old his extra set of custom built sidepipe 2-1/8" headers to our buddy Dixon in La.

The Vette diff shouldn't move much. Mine is very close too..but no problems. I had a 2.5"X.134 wall shaft made with Spicer 1350 yokes on it. The 3" shafts are REAL close and from the modeling we did the 2.5" was plenty tough when made out of .134 wall tubing. So far it's been through countless launches on slicks and 140-150 mph runs with no problems.

Hope all of this helps a little.

JIM

Install a LS7 camshaft, it would be better than a hydraulic anything.

A truer statement has never been made!

Truthfully, I always go for great heads and a solid flat tappet over fair heads and a hyd roller or any other hyd cam.

Unless I'm building a pickup truck!

JIM

This guy for real Jim? Could be a dreamer with one of those desktop things. Too specific! :D

Again thanks for the valuable input and constructive criticism. Criticism well taken, I am trying not to re do things too many times and the valuable input obtained from this and the Team Chevelle fourm is priceless. Anything you want to know is at your finger tips. I knew I wanted a 540, I had the BowTie Block and needed to match the correct components.

I have used all of the forum information to be as specific as possible and to come up with real world performance and pricing. Ironcross I did purchase the Performace Trend Engine Analyzer last week to take on my business trip to Finland. Something to play with on the plane and to feed all of this information into the program.

The software has shown and everyone has stated, hyd cams are all out between 5500/6200 RPM's with severe valve float, performace falls flat. The software does show the dramatic difference between hyd and solid cams, very little difference in the low end, and night and day difference on the top end. My problem is that I did not want all of the maintenance associated with a solid cam.

You have brough up another question, solid flat tappet or solid roller for the street use??

My project is real, I do not want to experiment, this is why this input is important, positive or negative. I will post pictures of my progess as I move forward.
Bob

In your case use I'd use a flat tappet, perhaps with some of those new isky pressure fed lifters. A solid roller is less forgiving, everything has to be just right. Wait till your third big block before you try a solid roller.

And a flat tappet is cheap, saving money for good heads.

A solid flat tappet is very low maintenance once set up.

Lots of good information posted here.

I do have a set of forged & coated Arias 4.500 pistons for sale. These will yield approx. 10:1 CR in a 540 (6.385 rod) with a 114 cc chamber. PM me if interested.

Mark

I spoke with Mike Lewis (Lewis Racing Engines), he has a wealth of knowledge and experience in building big blocks. Even though we are on opposite coasts he is willing to do and help me with whatever I need. I was expecting to hear that he could not help me because of the distance, but Mike actually kept me on the phone for an hour telling me what he has done, what would work in my application, what parts and manufactures he can help me with. Mike said he would ship me a balanced assembly.

I told you he was a good one!!

He's a stand up guy and you will get what you need...not some quickie production deal.


JIM

ML67, I may be interested in your pistons. I have to get a final hone to find out actual bore size. I am curious as to what intake, headers you are using especially since you are getting that much HP to the rear wheels. Your car virtually looks stock. Bob
snyd6153@bellsouth.net

That Mark is a sneaky one!!!



JIM

I tell people its just a 427 w/ a cam and headers....

I'm running a Vic Jr intake ported by Bernard Mondello. He milled the carb pad at a slight angle to fit under the hood. The headers are done by Custom Tubes. The rest of the exhaust system is 3 1/2" pipes and Borla mufflers that were sectioned, rolled and stuffed under the factory side exhaust covers.

It merges well into traffic. :thumbs:

Let me know if you are interested in the pistons.

Mark

Cam
 

Sometime ago I built 2 510 BBC Mark IV engines. They were identical except for the cam. Crane hyd. rollers were used in both. Both cams had .632 lift on I & E. The only difference was duration. As I recall, one had 244 or 246 intake & the other one was 254 or 256 I believe. Exhaust was about 10 degrees more . I don't have the cam cards handy but you will spot the cams in the Crane catalog. Both were run on a very conservative Superflow 901. The HP was 677 on one & 679 on the other. The power curves were nearly identical except the bigger cam made it's max HP & torque 500 RPM higher. I swear it was wierd. The smaller cam peaked at 6000 & the bigger one was at 6500. We do a lot of BBC engines. I dyno every one. This dyno is about 10% less than a couple others close by. I use them because the dyno owno operator is an expert carb tuner. GMPP uses the very same (bigger ) CRANE cam in the 572/620 crate motor.I do run about 20# more spring pressure than CRANE says to use on a retro hyd. roller, otherwise valves float early. :thumbs:

Those are way too big IMHO for a street motor. I am afraid the motor will be a slug on the street. Look at a BRODIX-2 PLUS or -2. Way more air speed & throttle response will be better. Port sizes in the 315 cc runners work good. Most heads that flow huge #'s are dead on the street. On a 510-540 BBC you will be happy with 350 CFM. More is not really better IMHO.:)

What I've found is that it gets progressively tougher to feed these big dudes as RPM climbs. Now if you will never to over 6000 rpm..that is one thing...but what you will learn is that with a 540" motor...the rpm climbs from 2500-6000 rpm so quickly due to tire spin and just flat power...that you end up with what feels like a very short powerband. The first version of my 540 was incredible at 3500-4000 rpm but it was done by 6200-6500. I re-did combo to move powerband higher and the car is a lOT more fun to drive. Still makes the same peak TQ..just does it a little higher..and then hangs on much better. It is still climbing at 7000 rpm...so when you want to play hard..it's ready. If you want to short shift it at 6000-6500..no big deal...it's still over 700-750 hp there too.

My heads are arguably too large...at 377cc after porting...and smaller ones will pick up the low end...but again the trick is...what are you going to do with it? There are 540's making 730+ ft lbs. If you stuff your foot into one of these things at 3000 rpm you better have your hand on the shifter ready to pull it quickly! I haven't had any complaints about low end TQ on mine at all! And that includes an intake that is awful big and ported too! Big motors need to breathe!

If you get a real nice set of CNC 335 AFR's, or similar...you're fine. They'll cover 800 hp. Even the 315's will support 700-750 HP. other than those..I'd really look into the 350cc range at least.

The ZZ572's aren't burning down the dragstrips with great performance out there. MPH is pretty low on them against similar deals. Decent....but they seem to be way head limited.

JIM

Best thread I've read in a long time.

Great info:

I am also planning a 540 short block to swap out for my current427. (60' over)

Can you use a 119 cc Dart 320 on a 10.75 cr 540?

I have 2.30 1.90 valves and the heads are fullly ported.

Did not receive a chart like the one listed above:(

Is it possible to make 800-900 h.p. on pump gas?

Did not mean to high jack thread.

Thanks,

Joe

:cheers:

Mine made 825HP last time around on the dyno on 93 octane. I've since changed cam and oil pan to a better design. Hopefully they helped..no new dyno tests....but the timeslips are a LOT better!

ML67 made 702 RWHP with his 548". That's all over low 800's also.

632C2 made around 835-840 or so I think...but that was with a vacuum pump system.

But to answer your question...yes 800+ is not too tough. 900 is a lot harder to do. You need SERIOUS airflow and be willing to spin some RPM. Moving to some Big Chief or Big Dukes would help a lot...generally 80-100 hp increase over good regular heads. But of course they take a little fab work in a real car.

Moving out to a tall deck 598" or even a 632 would help...or at least do the 565 with some good heads to get that high. Usually takes some compression and a serious cam. We are about to dyno a pump gas 638" with ported Brodix-3's. The first time around it made just under 900HP. This time it's got professionally ported heads. Still using a very streetable cam..only .700 lift..which is awful small for a motor this big...but it should be easy on parts. This thing is designed to make cross country trips. Should make well in excess of 900 this time around.


It will all depend on how well those 320's were ported. As I said..it takes a great head to make power like this.


JIM

Opps, your wrong about that. The following numbers were posted by a friends car at a inventional only NHRA event and constantly street driven. In fact he drove it to these races to participate in the NHRA shoot out. Vol. 1, Issue 1, Power & Performance News. has the following;

Don Vargo
Redford Mi
1969 Dodge Charger
Average 3 runs 9.70 @ 139.90
640 ci, BB Chevrolet .......:D
3 rd Place over all.

And this was after driving it on a special road course of around 50 miles and then drag racing it with a 4000 lb+ car. Nothing is too big for the streets. :lol:

Jim,


The goal is to take all the parts I have now and just change out the short block.

Here's the list:

Powermaster H/T Starter
Moroso Oil Pan (probably won't work with the 540)
Crane Timing Chain, Cam Button, Cover ect.
Dart 320's ported By Tom Allen owner of Champion Cylinder Heads. Currently have 219 190 valves, plan to change to 230 intakes and then have them flowed again.
Dart Super Mod Intake Flowed by Dart.
Hooker Super Comps with 3" Exhaust and Flowmasters (50 series)
Holley 8896 1050
CSI Waterpump
Msd Distributor w/6A BOX
ATI Balancer.

I'm trying to locate the most competive price for a 540 shortblock.

As, far as the cam goes, Cammotion is who I've used in the past with good success. I think in this case I will try one of the cams listed in this thread. It's saves alot of stress knowing you guys have already tried various combinations and know what works.
Thanks for sharing. I don't drive my car much on the street anymore. I guess it's because when we go get fuel it sucks to spend 9.49 a gallon for C112.

So with the small heads and the small carb (1050) how much power can I make with your cam recommendation and my parts

Thanks,

Joe

Joe....you are going to be in for some fun with the big motor!!

I'm assuming you want to stay short deck. The 565's are making about 20hp or so at least more than the 540's. They breathe nice!!

Otherwise, the 598's are just insane. Pef427 just got his 598" running. It is a pump gas hyd roller motor with Dart 355CNC heads. It made 819 HP and I think like 770-780 ft lbs of TQ? All before 6200 rpm or so!

Depending on oil pan you have. I ran a Moroso (20403?) that cleared fine. It was on my 427 for years....but I had oiling problems with it on the 540. I think it is a little close in front area of crank and oil can't get away from crank on a 540. I now have a Milodon Stepped Drag Race pan and it solved all issues immediately.

The 320's will just depend on what was done to them and what they flow. Other folks I've talked to said they ran OK on 540's, but ran out of breath too early. They would be willing to give up a little TQ for RPM.

Interestingly when I've compared my low end TQ numbers against similarly cammed 540's I find I'm at least in the game with them and flat outpull many as RPM climbs. This despite the huge heads and intake. Right now the best overall compromise seems to be the AFR 335's or the Brodix -3CNC heads for out of the box. They are both incredible.

I would have heads flowed real quick before I spent more $$ on them. See what they do. You can always sell a good set of heads like that to a 454/427 guy and put money towards better stuff. If you shop around you can find good deals on heads for your motor too. Hate to see you leave too much power on the table. I woudl expect the avg 320 Dart head (unported) with a .700 cam and 260's duration to end up right around 680-700 hp on pump gas. Maybe a little more...but I think RPm will be limited somewhat.

The Dart intake is a proven performer on everything..but again....I think a Super Victor etc will out do it on a 540+ motor. Or at least do some porting on it.

Nick is using a Cam Motion in his 638". I actually toured their shop one night.(long story). 632C2 just replaced his Cam Motion in his 632 with a slightly smaller Comp roller. When all was done, he dropped a few HP on the top end, but gained like 40-50 RWHP in the 4000-6000 rpm range! That's incredible!!

My cam is an Engle. I've had great luck with them..but I keep thinking all this new whiz bang stuff might be better. But again..mine MPH's pretty good..hate to mess with success. Plus it doesn't hurt stuff!


JIM

Thanks!

:cheers:

Joe

Since Jim brought up Call Mike Lewis from http://www.lewisracingengines.com/

I would like to also add that he is good to work with and will not steer you wrong. Has great prices with very good service as well. :)

msb184, i don't know if you are replying to my thread or not. I looked at all the heads small cc's and largest cfm's. Comparing heads I found the AFR 315's to flow the most cfm's from .100 to .700 lift. I thought about the Brodix -2Plus, cc's about the same as AFR 315's but the cfm's were lower. In addition the Brodix head exhaust port is raised much higher than the AFR which will cause more of an issues using headers. (Engine 540, AFR 315's, Holley 950, cam 257/263- 725 lift. compression 10.5)

Update on progress. I have been out of the country wroking for the last 3 weeks where people have no interest in cars let alone roads to drive on. I am putting the suspension together and have saved a considerable amount of time on do overs or buying the wrong parts as a result of all the input from this forum. I don't have to guess on a drive shaft, or if my diff flange will work (T400). Found a cam builder who does not sell off shelf cams, engine consultants that I would use if it wasn't for the distance, 427HotRod who tries everything and provides a wealth of knowledge and support. There is a guy on this forum that must have worked at the factory building corvettes, John Z, he told me how far to tap the clutch boss, no one today at GM could answer this question. I have put the engine aside to get the fame and suspension ready. I will provide updates and pictures in another thread. Thanks

Great to hear an update..we were wondering where you went!

This place has just about everything you'll ever need. Someone here has done just about anything you can imagine and is willing to help you through it.

I still wouldn't rule out Mike for building and shipping you a motor. While it's great to have a local guy you can trust and can go visit...if that's not possible...it's best to have a guy that is very visible and is well known. He wouldn't take the chance on anything happening to his reputation.

Pef427 had his built in Nevada and shipped to TX. He found a guy with great prices. Motor seems to be good...but the guy turned out to be a jerk to deal with after he got the $$$.

You can have yours from Mike in a few days after it's done. That way you work on frame while motor is being built.


You going to make it to Bowling Green in May for the Forum Cruise in? There will be a pretty big contingent of BIG motors there to hear and see run...or go riding in!!


JIM

How did I miss this thread for so long........:bs

Hotrod is a wealth of info and as usual has covered most of the bases. The one thing I would add is I see no reason to build a 540, make it a 555 at least. Having it bored out will be the cheapest 20-30 hp you will ever get. Nowadays pistons for the larger than 4.500 bore are no more money either. I wish I would have taken my 555 out to 4.6 for a 565. Or if you are brave make it a 4.625 bore for a 572 !!

The AFR 335 CNC and Brodix -3's are nice heads (I have a set of the -3's) no doubt you do not want the GM heads.....they are pretty crappy comparred to the compitition. I would also take a look at the CFE 320-350 cc heads, very nice and were designed by a guy who does a lot of very high end race motors.

http://www.profilerperformance.com/bbc-heads-174.html

I want to thank everyone for there help and support, project is moving forward 1 step at a time and then 2 steps back. When you go away from stock there is always re work, re do, buy different. As I have stated before this forum and the people on the forum have saved me money , time, and a whole lot of aggravation.

427Hotrod are you going to Bowling Green and what are the dates for this event. I want to try and make this.

Thanks; Bob

Oh yeah...we have a big group coming up for the Cruise In. Check the Events section here on the Forum in the National section.

We're leaving TX on Tuesday May 22nd, but we're starting the week on Monday with the dyno test party of Nick's 638" motor! We'll make it to Memphis Tuesday evening. Then head down to Bealle St for some *Q* and guitar blues music. Then we'll likely hit Comp Cams again this year on Wednesday morning for a tour. We'll be in BG Wed evening. We have the track all to Vette folks on Thursday. Then we have all the other events ( A COUPLE OF SECRET ONES!)and socializing going on through Sat night. We'll head home on Sunday morning.

You need to come up...there are going to be LOTS of bad boys there. Pef427 with his 598" C-3, TNBusa with his 540" C-3, I'll have my toy there, Travis will have his new roller cam 427 there in his C-3. Plus a few nasty small blocks etc etc. I'm sure there are going to be a few 502's again this year and who knows what else?


Looking forward to seeing you!!


JIM

540 cu in
 

This is an intersting thread. I am based in the UK. We don't see too much info like this. I wonder if you guys could give me some advice. I have a '68 L36 427 with M21 & 3.08 rear end. I was going to do a re-build but it seems that I can build-up a new Dart/World 540 for similar money. I have a brand new pair of Brodix Race Rite oval port street heads and a RPM Air gap manifold. Using 1 7/8" Hedman headers & 2 1/2" pipes. I also have 285/40/18" Toyos on rear. Concerned about breaking things. I don't intend to race the car, just 'energetic' street use. Just want a little in excess of what I could have got from a 'full house' 427/454 but in an easier to use package. Any thoughts, suggestions and advice please?

The oval port heads will not flow enough air for a 540. :thumbs:

I'm also contemplating a big cube build. 565 seems to be the way to go (for me). The only thing I'm worried about is getting a long enough rod.

My 505 (current motor) has .400 longer rods. The only pistons are 12 (up to 15) to 1 compression ratio.

Less wear and tear on the side of the block (trying to push out the side of the block). At least that is my thinking. :eek:

6.135 (stock rod) / 4.00 (stock stroke 454) = 1.53375 rod/stroke ratio
6.385 (.250 longer) / 4.25 (540 crank) = 1.50235
6.535 (.400 longer) / 4.25 = 1.53765

I have also debated about a 3.76 stroke, 4.6 bore motor. :lol:

540 cu in
 

The oval port heads will not flow enough air for a 540.

I'm also contemplating a big cube build. 565 seems to be the way to go (for me). The only thing I'm worried about is getting a long enough rod.

My 505 (current motor) has .400 longer rods. The only pistons are 12 (up to 15) to 1 compression ratio.

Less wear and tear on the side of the block (trying to push out the side of the block). At least that is my thinking.

6.135 (stock rod) / 4.00 (stock stroke 454) = 1.53375 rod/stroke ratio
6.385 (.250 longer) / 4.25 (540 crank) = 1.50235
6.535 (.400 longer) / 4.25 = 1.53765

I have also debated about a 3.76 stroke, 4.6 bore motor.

Yes it seems in hindsight that my Brodix oval port heads may not be large enough to get best benefit for 540 cubes, could have them flowed and ported though!
The idea of 3.76 stroke and 4.6 bore should theoretically make a free reving set-up although again I guess big port heads would be required to get the best out of these capabilities.

The Race Rites are great heads, but I have to agree.....I think you'd be a lot better off with some larger heads on a 540+ engine. There has to be a UK fellow we can seel them to right? Then you can buy bigger stuff.


The intake, heads and exhaust you have are all geared to less than 500 cubes.

The 4.600x3.76 combo is a screamer...but it really likes RPM. Lots of fun if you rev it. Easy 7500-8000 rpm combo.

I wouldn't worry too much about the rod length. My 540 uses +.250 rods and has been running fine for years. Same pistons...no wear issues. A 540 like this has almost the same rod ratio as a 454. 1.50 Vs 1.53. Shorter rods help let the big heads breathe too.

JIM

540 cu in
 

My original plan was to use the Race Rite heads on my original 427 block after extensive re-build & blueprint. I have got Edelbrock RPM air gap ready to go on (to replace Torker 2). Things change however and now in the UK we can buy USA produced equipment far cheaper it would make more sense to mothball the 427 and build-up another shortblock. When a 540, 500 or 427 costs are all the same to build-up you go for the largest (or do you!) We have some excellent people over here that could port the Race Rite heads to match the flow capabilities of a 540 sized engine, however the thought of a high winding 3.67" stroke 4.6" bore engine is enticing. I guess though the flow rates of the heads are still going to be as much of a problem with this combination (being higher reving) as with a lowever reving big cube engine.

You're right...it's all relative. There's a guy named Larry Robb with a beautiful balck C-2. He ran the Hot Rod Pump Gas Drags once. He now runs low 9's@147+ mph with a 477" type deal. He uses seriously ported Dart 310 heads, huge roller cam etc. Makes peak HP at 8100 or so and shifts at 8600 rpm.

If you look back through some old info on the NMCA series, they were using similar combos with mega crazy ported GM/Edelbrock oval ports. They were turning 9000+ rpm with them and running high 9's on drag radials @ 3200-3400 lbs. Trust me. the heads didn't even resemble what they started out as.

I'd still look to build a big cube motor...they sure are fun. Just use good enough heads etc to get it to rev.


JIM

[SPOILER][QUOTE= I'd still look to build a big cube motor...they sure are fun. Just use good enough heads etc to get it to rev.[/SPOILER]

Spoke with guys today who would be doing my porting/gas flowing etc (who have also done many of Europes top drag & race cars) and they said to 'go whatever way I wish' as they can open out the heads/inlet to suit. They said "to just remember what I want to use the car for" i.e. street. Over here in Blighty we have to bear in mind the cost of our gas. At the equivalent of $2.25 a gallon even a small journey can be a wallet breaker. I would be mortified having layed out good money for a high-spec big cube engine to then get mileage significantly below 10 mpg like some of the pro-street guys. We have a guy over here who only now builds-up drag & pro-street cars using F.A.S.T injection software/hardwear on whatever intake set-up you want. One of his customers runs an injected single quad 11 sec. big cube Chevy truck and is supposed to record 20 mpg on a run. Don't know what speed that is at however. Makes a Kinsler/Hilborn set-up seem less of a dream (except for the cost!)

Gas is around $3.00 a gallon, you can buy it cheaper?

:withstupid:
If only!!!!!!!!! Got my £ to $ calcs wrong! Should have said our price is equivalent to [B]$9 a gallon!

YIKES !!!

About 20 minutes from me I can get 110 octane for 4.99 a gallon and there is a place right at the corner that has 100 for 5.99. However I notice on my bike that when I run the 100 there is soot on the swingarm but with the 110 it is clean :thumbs:

Sorry about that price. If I was to have to pay that much it would have to go scary fast............ maybe that way the thrill would last awhile.

Doug

Is there any difference in the cam bearings and cam from year to year starting with a 1965 L78 396, then a 1966 427, and from 67 to whatever year BB?

The 1965s and the 1966 rear cam bearing is different than the 1967 and later big blocks. :thumbs:

The rear cam bearing has a grove and three holes.

The camshaft has to have a groove so the oil will go past the camshaft to the other two holes that supply oil to the lifters.

Pic of the groove on the camshaft.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...mgroove002.jpg



:seeya

ok, now what is in a 1967 L78 ? Early or late stuff?

We have something similar to that over here. BP market it through a number of limited outlets, some close to race tracks, idea seems to be that some of the track day turbo cars can use it. You were shocked at the cost of our standard gasoline, I will find out how much the high octane is - I will bet its equivalent price is $14+.

Late stuff. Or at least if should. What is the casting number of the block?

The block number means more than anything. A 942 block (1966 427) is the early cam even though some people say thay came in early 1967 corvettes.

What effect would multi port fuel injection have on power, instead of running a carb on a 540 like mine?

If you have a correct sized carb...next to nothing. *Might*be better on driveability...but I know some folks who constantly tinker with their EFI trying to make it perfect. Just depends on how picky you are I guess. But with a cam like yours, a carb should be very smooth anyway.

JIM

To '75400' Interesting remarks from '427Hotrod' re. your cam specs and that it should be a smooth driver whether it has injection or carb. i looked at your engine specs. and have a question, are the duration figures at .050" lift?

Good thread!

I'm going to repeat a few things already stated and throw in a few things of my own!

For a 540 in anything other than a tow rig, go rectangle port heads!

Match the cam and heads (along with everything else) but cam and heads first, THE PRICE!

It's my veiw that a hyd roller is the BEST way to go for good hp and still make some bottom and mid range torque! I currently have a GMPP 572/620 in my 1990 454SS pickup. 3.73 gears, 3000 converter, weight around 4500#, best time of 12 flat @ 114 mph, 325/50/15 M/T drag radials and stock suspension. Best 60' is high 1.7's, any harder and it goes up in smoke!

The GMPP cam is in fact a Crane peice and I'm not that happy with it! It does sound GOOD! The 572 in the 454SS is a temporary thing. If I were to leave it in I would change the intake for sure and maybe the cam as well! Awhile back Chevy High Performance magazine did an intake and cam change on a 572/620, going to an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap it only lost 10-15 peak hp. Both the average hp and torque went up! Right now I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the 572 but any thing other than all race in a light car I would get rid of the HUGH GMPP intake!

Al