Wow!! Again and again... and again... Z51 vs. non Z-51. Getting old!

Yup, folks can't just respond to CF member’s legitimate questions w/o injecting their opinions etc. It would be nice if the "facts" were offered w/o prejudice.

Tom

Other than one magazine article which put the 997S at a 0-60 of 3.9-- almost every other report shows the Vette Z51 (.01 second faster than non Z51) and the Porsche virtually matched. I drove both of these when I was buying my car, fully intending to purchase the 997S. I may still buy a 997GT3 in a few years when the prices drop.

The real difference will come from how the driver relates to the vehicle.
There is a large difference in feel between a front engined high torque vehicle, and a rear engined, lower torque vehicle. The Porsche, with its weight over the rear wheels "hooks up" easier on a launch than the Vette. And oddly, despite the fact that they are almost exactly the same length, the Porshce (a bit narrower) FEELS smaller, hence more responsive.

In the real world there is so little difference in absolute available performance that it comes down to the driver, and the driver's comfort with the vehicle.

Which is why, for $40,000 less money, I bought the Z51 MZ6 Vette with the 5 year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, loaded with NAV, HUD, etc.

Now, if your 997S friends want to go up against something for the same price, I suggest they try on the equivalently priced Z06........:D

I know...even when the question is "is a C6 with Z-51 faster than a 911s?", the spazoids on this forum turn it into C6 w/o Z-51 vs. C6 with Z-51. :ack:

2205 magazine test of C6 vs 911
 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/index.html


2005 versions, but my sense is that equipped with their respective manual transmissions, the results would be quite similar today with 2007 versions . . .

But I do not keep up with every incremental improvement on the Porsche front.

- Ray
Happy with a non-Z51 A6 version of the C6. . .

Amen.

Loved my Porsches. But, once out of warranty....look out!

Here are some real world tests you can quote:

The December 2004 issue of Car and Driver tested a Z51 equipped C6 against a 2005 Porsche 911 Carrera (not the S). Results:

0-60 mph
Porsche 911 - 4.3 seconds
Corvette C6, Z51 - 4.1 seconds

0-100 mph
Porsche - 10.5
Corvette - 9.6

0-150 mph
Porsche - 28.5
Corvette - 25.0

quarter-mile
Porsche - 12.8 @ 109
Corvette - 12.6 @ 114

Motor Trend in their January 2005 issue compared a 2005 Porsche 911 Carrera S with a 2005 Corvette Z51. Here are the results:

0-60 mph
Porsche Carrera S - 4.2
Corvette C6, Z51 - 4.4

0-100 mph
Porsche - 10.7
Corvette - 10.1

quarter-mile
Porsche - 12.6 @ 111.1
Corvette - 12.6 @ 113.2

Motor Trend also did a track analysis at Willow Springs Intl. Motor Sports Park.

Porsche 911 Carrera S best lap - 100.1 seconds
Corvette C6, Z51 best lap - 99.49 seconds

Road and Track in their March 2005 issue did a nine car comparison to determine the best all-around sports car for 2005. The C6 Corvette with Z51 option came away with the title. Here are some of the results:

0-60 mph
2005 Porsche 911 Carrera S - 3.9 seconds
2005 Corvette C6, Z51 - 4.5 seconds

0-100 mph
Porsche Carrera S - 9.6 seconds
Corvette C6, Z51 - 9.8 seconds

quarter-mile
Porsche Carrera S - 12.3 @ 114.8
Corvette C6, Z51 - 12.8 @ 114.5

Concerning the Carrera S's acceleration numbers Road and Track had this to say: "These numbers were so extraordinary that we took the car to MD Automotive in Westminster, California, to measure the Carrera S's output on the dynamometer." They said the car came away clean. Road and Track previously tested a Carrera S that did 4.4 for 0-60 and 12.8 for the quarter-mile. Their explanation is as follows: "The only explanation for the difference in acceleration times is that this particular engine had a proper break-in period (it had 5400 miles on the odometer as opposed to the 1200 miles on our previous test car.)" They did not say how many miles were on the Corvette. I personally feel something was done with the Porsche to give it an advantage. Those numbers are too far out-of-line with any other magazine tests. Could it have been special tuning with sticky tires? Ringers have been given to magazine testers in the past.

Road and Track also tested the cars on Buttonwillows West Loop. Here are lap times for the top three cars:

1. 66.32 seconds - Chevrolet Corvette Coupe
2. 66.60 seconds - Dodge Viper SRT-10
3. 66.71 seconds - Porsche Carrera S Coupe

Hope this helps settle the argument.

Give me a break, some Z51 sway bars get's me 90% to where a Z51 car is being that I have the performance axle. Besides, I'll put my driving ability up against your smug feeling of having the Z51 anyday... do you seriously think your pushing your "superior" Z51 to its limits? If you are, you are with the select few on this board... It's 90% driver, 10% car on most tracks, in case you didn't know.

I don't know which one is faster but they sure look good together...

http://members.cox.net/mbonness/porsche2.jpg

http://members.cox.net/mbonness/porsche1.jpg

The Z51 is quicker by a sliver over the base C6 until you apply the Z51 stickers, then its all the base C6. Those fake badges change aero dynamics and weight.

Here we go again..:lurk: The Z-51 comes with 3.42's, What does The base c6 come with?

Uhh, sorry but Z51 sways won't get you the performance you get with full Z51 car. Shocks+Springs+trans+coolers+tires+brake s. From what I've read on these forums for dedicated racers, cooling becomes an issue with the non-Z51 cars with high transmisson temps.

If anyone has an issue it's the non-Z51 owners. All I constantly hear is how much the Z51 package is a rip-off and a sway bar upgrade it all that's needed. Let's face the facts, if you want to track the car and want the best performance from factory without buying a Z06, the Z51 option enhances the base C6 performance.

Just to clarify...what you're saying is you don't have a z-51?

Back on topic ladies...This is a funny coincidence because my MMA instructor just picked up a 911 Targa and says we have to run them. Although I doubt I'll be able to get him to a track so I guess it wont happen.;) I don't know how good of a driver he is but hopefully my 4:10s, VR, and tune will keep him back. Unfortunately he'll more than make up for it with the ass whoopin' he'll give me in class. I'll let you know if anything happens come spring time.

If its a manual, 3.42s. However the transmission gearing through the first 3 gears is lower in the Z51. Thats where the big difference is.

Non Z51 vs Z51 transmission gear ratios:

First: 2.66 vs 2.97
Second: 1.7 vs 2.07
Third: 1.30 vs 1.43
Fourth: 1.00 vs 1.00
Fifth: 0.74 vs 0.71
Sixth: 0.50 vs 0.57


:iagree:

I believe that these articles may have been referenced already, if not then here they are:
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...ict-page2.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8774

:iagree: I have the 6 manuel, but for the record, it's all about the driver be it base or Z-51 when it comes to road course or 1/4 mile.

Of course. :iagree:

Any 1/4 mile race where the difference in either car's performance capabilities is less than about 3 tenths in a quarter mile could be considered "a driver's race" IMO.

But if you are comparing equally good drivers, the better performing car will usually win. Road course or quarter mile as you say.

The results published in the automotive literature are produced by professionals who supposedly don't have a dog in the fight, and are typically the average of multiple runs. This is why I put more stock into those numbers than some of the others.

:iagree: but...

The problem is that when you run into these cars at the track or on the street:nono: You get such a variety of driver skill that you never know what the outcome will be. This is why people like to hear what the average driver is doing with these vehicles. Realistically though if you have a grudge with someone or some car the best way to find out who will win is to race(track). At this point it's no longer about who's car is faster. It's about which driver is faster. Because if the faster car loses the only thing that the winner will hear out of the losing driver's mouth are exscuses. Keep it light and keep it fun.

:iagree: But another point to consider is that the times quoted in the automotive literature, while run by professionals, are usually not times produced by flogging the living $#@+ out of the car.

Some will tell you up front that the times posted in the test cars are not the absolute quickest times which can be produced while abusing the car.

In this regard the times shown in the periodicals are generally slower than the manufacturer's times, and typically much, much slower than the times produced by an owner who is beating his car to within an inch of it's life, and closer to the times that a slightly above average driver can expect.

:iagree: And head up, if you are into drag racing. None of that bracket crap.

Thats true too. However there are some people who can take a base manual Vette and beat a lesser driver in a C6 Z06. Like you say though, it certainly does not prove which car is quicker or faster however. Thats something which can better be determined by equal drivers at the same venue.

Thats why those Porsche vs Corvette numbers are accurate. About as accurate as you are going to get.

Ya know...I don't know why everyone is quoting 0-? numbers and 1/4 miles times. That wasn't what the porsche was built for anyway. One would want to look at the C6 vs. Porsche times on a road course to get a better feel for performance between the two (I think they did that at "The Ring").

Eventhough I have one (a Z-51 that is), I wish folks on this part of the forum would only worry about comparing Z's as in Z06. The C5 forum doesn't have all this banter about "mines a Z-51" going on. :ack: