427 Mystery Motor History
 

For those interested in the development and history of the 427 Big Block
... there is a nice write up on the 427 Mystery Motor in Drag Racer Magazine. Details include the Mystery Motors use in Drag Racing and in
Junior Johnsons NASCAR Impala.
The article also details some of the similarities and differences of the
Mystery Motor with the 409 and the production Big Block Chevy 396-427.
The article does not mention its use in Corvette racing aplications but
does mention it was used in Johnsons 1963 Impala Stock Car. Johnson
won 7 races and captured 10 pole positions in the 1963 #3 427 powered
Chevrolet Impala.

Kyle,
I haven't seen the article (and I don't subscribe to that magazine), so I cannot thoroughly comment on the text of the article.
BUT, unbeknownst to MANY people, Chevrolet built TWO 427 engines in 1963. One was an RPO (Regular Procuction Option) and the427 "Mystery" engine. Both were COMPLETELY different engines. Dimensionally, they shared some commonality, but that was it! Period!
The RPO was Z11, which was NOT just an engine, it was a COMPLETE pkg which was ONLY on an Impala 2dr hardtop (NOT an SS). This pkg included a stroked 409 (to 427) with totally different heads and a 2x4 intake that was different from the regular 409 intake. This was primarily a drag race specific engine. There is a lot of debate about the total of Z11 cars sold (the range is from about 50 ot 57 cars). About 12 DOCUMENTED survivors exist.
The 427 "Mystery" engine was essentially the forerunner to today's BB family. The Mystery 427 was NOT available through ANY normal, or even special channels such as a COPO. It was "secretly" provided to a VERY select few for NASCAR racing, clandestinly out the back door of Chev engineering.

The picture that you have posted of Jr Johnson's #3 car MAY NOT be the real deal. A number of years ago, Floyd Garrett cloned a 63 (and VERY probably that is the car he cloned) like JJ's car, complete with a 427 Mystery engine that he had previously bought from Smokey. I went to Floyds Museum in Tenn about 3yrs ago, SPECIFICALLY to see that car (JJ's #3) and a REAL Z11 car that he had. HE HAD SOLD BOTH!!!!!!!!!! I was heart broken! That's why I think that maybe the picture posted here MAY be the Floyd clone (which, by the was was supposed to be a VERY, VERY correct clone, even by JJ's personal approval). Floyd DOES still have (at least 3yrs ago) a complete Z11 engine on a display stand in the museum.

Can you unravel the difference between the 427 ci and the 427 HP. The picture shows a 427 "HP" car, does that imply a 427 ci. Could that 2 door Impala have a 396/409 in it that was 427 HP rated?

I've done no research on the pic... I can't comment on the car's authenticity... I merely posted it as eye candy.
Tom, the Drag Racer Magazine article is at home, where I'm not, currently... and it bears out what you have stated... the article is about the Mystery engine (almost quasi BBC) and not the Z11/409/427 variant...
From memory, I believe the article stated that the "Mystery" motor had a little thinner casting than the BBC.... the valve covers on the Mystery engine were also thinner and shorter ( I believe) than the BBC.
I do remember seeing a pic of the Mystery Motor in my copy of
Smokey Yunick's book "Power Secrets"... and I remember feeling that it looked very similar to the Big Block Chevy.
I would not give to much credence to the horsepower ratings on any
of the vintage NASCAR hoods (per sandbagging).... although cubic inch displacement rules were in effect and could be trusted. Junior's stock car was said to be running the Mystery Motor at Daytona in 1963... where he qualified #1 at 8mph faster than the previous years record. I do not believe Junior ran the 409 variant in 63 at all.

If I rember correctly, I will check when I get home, the article said
the Mystery Motors were cast betweeen August-1962 and January 1963.

Here's an authentic Junior pic
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...iorjohnson.jpg

for the sake of keeping it straight... there are 3 chevy 427's we are talking about here.

1. the Z11 409 Variant 427
2. the Mystery Motor 427 "special backdoor" racing non production (Junior's-1963)
3. the Standard Big Block Chevy.. in 427 cubic inch trim

Rich,
Back in the early NASCAR days, the rules were MUCH more "interpretable" by the teams (many even made up their own rules and they got accepted by NASCAR). Not so today! Teams are now frequently broken by "bent" rules. Horsepower ratings did not necessarly imply displacement. As you probably know, the top 63-64 409s were rated at 425hp, so it only stands to reason that the Mystery 427 was likely a little higher than 427hp(:lol:). You suppose? (Jr himself even admitted in an interview that they were making about 500hp with the Mystery 427!!!)

Kyle,
From all accounts and looking back at the 63 Mystery engine, it definitely did have some weaknesses. They had some bearing problems for one thing. The Mystery engine retained the same journal sizes as the 409 design (today's BBs have bigger jorunals as a result).
Appearance wise, the Mystery engine definitely looks like the 65-later MKIV BBs, but as you mention the heads had enough differences that they will not even come clost to fitting on a MKIV BB. They even have a different bolt pattern. And you're right about the valve covers, they're smaller. But, as you can see from any of the Mystery pictures, its the daddy of the 65-later BBs.
Dick Keineth, who is THE Chev engineer behind the design of the Mystery engine, impressed Smokey with it's revolutionary design. By the way, the 348-409-(Z11 427) family has become known as the MKI, the Mystery 427 as the MKII, the MKIII engine was ONLY on paper (never porduced) and now we have the MKIV, V and VI (or if you prefer Gen 4, Gen 5, Gen 6) BBs.

Jr DID whip the field at Daytona in 63, very impressively, with the Mystery engine. But, because of failures, he didn't finish well. But you can be sure (as they say, the rest is now history) many, many people stood up and took notice. Even Ford FORCED NASCAR to require that GM provide them with a couple of the Mystery engines (do you suppose Ford did any R&D when they got their hands on them?).
Oh well, things are different now. I miss the fights! AND NASCAR IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG FOR NOT ALLOWING THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's an original '63 427 "Mystery Motor" in the Powertrain display at the new GM Heritage Center. :thumbs:

The Z-11 was a stroked 409 "W"-block, in an Impala with aluminum front sheet metal and bumpers; here's the Ronnie Sox/Larry Wilson Z-11 at this year's Meadow Brook Concours d'Elegance, fresh out of a complete restoration by Hank Gabbert, who lives just down the road from me. :thumbs:

Mystery Motor in a 1963 Corvette
 

JJ ran a 1963 Corvette ZO6 with the Mystery 427 in it, I believe at Daytona. The car qualified #1 or #2. It was a rainy day and the heat inside caused the windows to fog up so bad that they parked the car. Something about the steam made it unbearable to drive.

This car with a complete Mystery Motor was on display at the Bloomington Special Collection in the early 90's.

The car is allive and well in So. Cal., it appears at the Monterey Historics every once in a while.

The motor with the car came from Smokie's shop. It was bought for the car at the big garage sale.

I believe it is the only Corvette to qualify on the front row at a Nascar race.

I delivered the car and the motor to the Special Collection.

Mike

Looks like Mopar copied GM's tactics of building a New Big Block in the
off season for house cleaning at Daytona..... it was 1964, a year later,
that Chrysler took 1,2,3 at Daytona with the Hemi...
Junior led the most laps of the 1963 Daytona 500,with the Mystery Motor, before retiring..... and, um..ahhemm... Junior was in a Hemi car at Daytona in 64. The Ford SOHC "Cammer" 427 was built in 64.... but NASCAR's Bill France took one look at the 427 SOHC and said NO!!...... outlawed before it ever saw a race..it made 658hp with dual carbs,and was offered by FoMoCo in crate motor form... it had hemi chambers with single camshafts over each head driven by a chain..

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...valvetrain.jpg
Valvetrain of the Ford 427 SOHC "Cammer"... built to "one up" the Mystery
Motor and 426 Hemi.

If France had allowed the "Cammer" to compete..... I believe Chevrolet would have answered the
challenge and we would have Chevrolet Hemi's in pushrod or overhead cam arrangements today...
Nick Arias and Sonny Leonard have built Hemi heads for the BBC..... Sonny's heads can be bought
Today.... for a measely $14,900 a pair... (see the link below)
**
**
http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/p...eads/hemi.html

*****
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...eralMotors.jpg
Sonny Leonard GM Hemi

Mystery 427 Engine
 

Here is another "REAL" Mystery 427 Engine. This one belongs to Tom McIntyre.
http://i10.tinypic.com/2hylatj.jpg

Kyle,
Don't feel bad at all about no research and lack of authenticity.
These kinds of previous historical engineering exercises (and that is about what they amounted to) are frequently very difficult to document, and sometimes impossible to document. With some of this stuff being 40+-50+yrs old, and when you talk to the individuals who were specifically involved in the design and development, they often can't remember for sure exactly what and when things occured. Back 40-50yrs ago it never occured to them that this sort of stuff would some day become very historically significant. They were just doing a job--------------sometimes for fun, but most of the time for a paycheck.
For example, I'm 63 now, and back in my childhood/teenage days, there were MANY, MANY things which are long gone now and today absolutely nothing exists that would indicate what or where they were! Never occured to me 40-50yrs ago to take notes and pictures of Santa Fe or Frisco steam locomotives pulling trains through Okla City, or TWA Super Connies out at the airport or B-29s coming and going at Tinker AFB.
Nor, did it ever occur to me to go out and take pictures 30+yrs ago of the GM assembly plant being built in OKC which was permanently shut down a few months ago.
I'm sure the same existed with folks back in the 50s-60s, in what I consider to be the hayday of GM (particularly Chev) developments. Thus, a lot of things like the Z11, 427 Mystery engine, Small block hemi heads, etc, etc, are at best sketchy.
So don't feel bad that you don't know some of this stuff. Just start documenting all of today's cookie cutter, monochromatic, lookalike cars (:ack: :( :ack: :( :ack: ) so that you can show the pictures to your grandkids 40-50-60yrs from now!

When I was watching the Barrett Jackson auction on Speed the other
night... I thought I saw the rear section of the Junior Johnson Holly
Farms 1963 Impala..... I just did a quick search and found this...
**
**
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/aucti....asp?id=150725

It's a little hard to tell from the page if Junior's 63 Stockcar is fixing to go to auction... or if it has
already gone through..

Smokey Yunick ran one of his famous black and gold #13 cars at Daytona 1963 with a 427 Mystery Engine and on top of the controversies with the engine he hires a Sprint car driver who never ran a NASCAR race.

It was Johnny Rutherford and he ends up winning his first NASCAR race which was one of the 100-miler qualifiers for the 1963 Daytona 500
Jr Johnson won the other.
I have read in many articles that both 427s blew up in the race but the Daytona results show Rutherford finished 9th
Jr blew up and is listed as 42nd

This sound like a good topic for vettefinder Jim Gessner.
There is another member with knowledge of the mystery motor. Maybe he will share some of his knowledge with us.:thumbs:

The rumor at the time was that Ford pushed Bill France very hard to allow the SOHC 427 in NASCAR competition. He was ready to let Ford in when Chrysler sent down a represenative that provided photos (or engineering drawings) of a four valve per cylinder varient of the 426 hemi. Reportably the information presented related to an engine that Chrysler had in development. The implication was if Ford was allowed to run the SOHC, Chrysler would immediately step up the competition another level. The result would be a competition engine development race, one that would leave privately owned teams undergunned (and underfunded). In an effort to maintain the spirit of a low cost NASCAR competition series Bill France decided to tell Ford no SOHC in NASCAR.

For Chevrolet to step up (and into) a competition engine development program, to complement the fairly new MKIV engine, would have demanded much from GM management (they did not have the ego of Ford, or sales tied to competition success as much as Ford).

:)

These two cars are both replicas. The picture was taken in the last two years but I can't remember where or when. I'm thinking Charlotte, last Summer.

I doubt GM was "forced" by NASCAR to give FORD a couple engines for their review as GM was not officially involved in racing in February of '63 and that policy was reitierated to the divisions in January of that year.

The '63 Daytona Sportsman race that the Mystery engined Corvette was entered in was won by Paul Goldsmith in a 421 Super Duty powered '63 Tempest owned by Ray Nichels.

The Z-11 was first a "package", released in Summer of '62. It was available over the counter as aluminum front fenders, hood, bumpers and braces and the special engine components as some have described. It was also available as a complete car in late '62. Only in the Impala, not the bubble top Bel Air, with all the special parts. The cars were about .5-.6 seconds quicker in the quarter mile than a tuned standard 409.

A story that I heard in 1963 from someone who was there: In the late Fall of '62, a van box truck rolled into Indianapolis Raceway Park drag strip pits during the course of one of the last events of the year. Back doors come open and out rolls a solid white '63 Impala. The owner requested permission to make an exhibition pass down the track with the fastest RamCharger (MoPar) at the track. He would not open the hood for inspection. Permission granted and the race was on. The Impala blew the Mopar away which was no small feat, rolled it back up in the truck and left. Nobody knew who the guy was. He wouldn't say.

Was this one of the "mystery engined" cars going down South to get ready for Daytona? I've always thought so.

I think there were four teams that started the season with those engines. Ray Fox (Junior) and Smokey and two more. I believe Ray Fox was the only one that kept the engine running the whole season as parts weren't available from GM. As a matter of fact, I believe I heard that GM demanded the Mystery Engines be returned before the racing season even started but evidently nobody complied. I think I heard Junior tell that story about hiding one engine in a barn.

[QUOTE=MikeM]
I doubt GM was "forced" by NASCAR to give FORD a couple engine for their review as GM was not officially involved in racing in February of '63and that policy was reitierated to the divisions in January of that year. QUOTE]

Mike,
This a quote from Smokey himself.
From FAST CHEVYS by Alex Gabbard, bottom pg 30-top pg 31.
Direct instruction given to Smokey Yunick by Bunkie Knudsen,

"Knudsen calls and said,'Smokey, listen. I don't want you to say a thing 'til I get through. I've been up all night with this thing, arguing back and forth with France. Number 1, we are going to race the cars. Number 2, we are going to take two engines down to the Chevy dealer for Ford to pick up, and they are to be there at eight o'clock in the morning. You are to keep the thing going, and try as hard as you can to win. Now, we've talked about this many times. I'm not asking you, I'm telling you'".

I've also read this elsewhere---------------------it seems as if it was in Smokey's book.

This is the story told in many NASCAR history articles.
Only production engines were allowed to race and Chevy said it was a production engine and anyone can buy one. So one of the Ford teams said OK I'll take two and Chevy said OK and sold two to the Ford team.
The engine was allowed to run.
Bill France played dumb as he was doing whatever he can to get all the car co. run in NASCAR.

from my notes
The 1963 Daytona Speed week was a wild year. The normal road race was the Three-Hour Continental race was held February 17, 1963
In addition to the Continental race some one has big idea to run a race with stock cars and sports cars together on the oval. This was called the American Challenge Cup race and I believe was only run that one time on February 16, 1963. The American Challenge Cup race was won by a 421 Pontiac Tempest. It rained during the race but they didn’t stop it.
1st owner Ray Nichels driver Paul Goldsmith Super Duty 421 Pontiac Tempest by over 5 miles.
2nd: owner Nickey Chevrolet driver A.J. Foyt in a 1963 Z06 Corvette.
3rd: owner Mickey Thompson driver Billy Krause in a 1963 427 Corvette

This has turned into a very nice discussion with many good contributions..... here are a few factoids from the Drag Racer article on the 427 Mystery Motor...

The Mystery Motor that was photographed for the article (there are
pics of the casting numbers) caries a casting number of
0-217199.... the "0" denotes a pre production casting.
Also cast in the block is 9-13-62... the date of Sept 13, 1962 in standard short abreviated form.... which is the date the block was cast.

Each head is 25 lbs lighter than it's Big Block Mark IV
brother.

In a pre Daytona dyno test.. the 427 Myster Motor made 620 hp
with a single Holley on a 180 degree high rise aluminum manifold.

The Valves on the Mystery Motors heads were 2.19 Int and 1.72 Ex.
Chambers were very similar to the 65 to 70 Mark IV closed wedge
type heads. The heads were dubbed by early writers as "Porcupine"
heads but were officially called "Canted Valve" heads. Pop up pistons
gave the Mystery Motor a 12.4:1 compression ratio before milling.

The stroke was 3.65 inches and the rocker ratio was 1.75:1.

The Mystery Motor was said to be GM's test bed for screw in rocker
studs.

It is believed by Mystery Motor experts that 18 engines were produced by GM.

There were 4 different intake manifolds developed for the engine..
all were 180 degree design. Smokey Yunick stated the best of the
4 designs was casting number 0-232166.

The 12.4:1 pistons are listed as part # 0-233239

Here are the head flow cfm numbers provided by Valley Head Service
tested a 28 inches.
LIFT..........INT..........EXH
.100..........73.2.........73.2
.200..........122.4.......122.4
.300..........234.0.......147.5
.400..........277.8.......177.4
.500..........300.8.......196.2
.600..........328.0.......210.3
.700..........341.2.......221.0

The Exhaust ports were round... cast iron exahaust manifolds had
2inch primaries and were 33 inches long... they dumped into a
4 inch diameter 26 inch long collector.

All information listed above came from Drag Racer Magazine-
July of 2006.. Volume 10, No.4 pp 60-67... web address is
http://www.dragracermag.com

:thumbs:

I have never seen one.............but it looks a lot wider than the Mark IV head to me. If anything I would say heavier not lighter. :eek:

have read that the 427 Mystery engine had in line lifter bore similar to SB Chevy. Mark IV BB Chevy has lifter bore at angle to better work with push rod angles

Looks can be decieving Knight ...both the block and heads are lighter
than the Mark IV...... the article states that the heads are about 1/2 inch shorter than BBC heads in both height and length... the article claims the block weighs only 49 pounds more than a 327 Fuelie short block..(sorry, no hard numbers were given)

Two of the sources for the story were Hayden Profitt... who was a
factory backed Impala Drag Racer in 62 and 63...... and Larry Ofria of
Valley Head service..... Larry knew Smokey Yunick personally and did
contract head work for Smokey..... Larry did the flow test I provided
in my previous post... and it seems only logical if he had them on the
flowbench that it wouldn't be any problem to walk a few steps and put them on a scale. There are many pictures of the 427 Mystery Motor in
the article in different stages of assembly.... bare block, short block,
bare heads, complete...what I'm alluding to is that this is not a
book research article.... the block, heads, and components were specifically photographed and belong to a fellow named Roger Sortino..
who is going to be campaigning a 1963 Biscayne with aluminum
fenders and Mystery Motor 427 power..... the tuning will be done
by Hayden Proffitt and the car will supposedly be at select Chevy
events.

The wide look is probably due to the canted vavles

[QUOTE=KyleDallas]

-------------------------------------The stroke was 3.65 inches and the rocker ratio was 1.75:1.-----------------------
[QUOTE]
The Z11 427 and the 427 Mystery engine had the same bore/stroke.




[QUOTE=KyleDallas]
------------------------------It is believed by Mystery Motor experts that 18 engines were produced by GM.-----------------------------
[QUOTE]
Exactly how many Mystery engines were actually assembled and provided to "selected" racers/teams is still debated/unknown. BUT, Smokey stated that he clearly remembers 42 engines. Also, there is credible evidence that there was a small inventory of spare parts. How can that be? Well, some of the racers have stated that when they needed a part(s) to replace failed parts, they were furnished until the supply ran out, and then that was all there was. So, apparently some racers were able to keep the Mystery engines alive until they could no longer get parts.
Regardless of the above, if a person takes a close look at the racers/teams that were furnished Mystery engines, plus the ones that Smokey sold at auction, plus the 2 provided to Ford and the ones that still are in the hands of collectors, it is highly probable that MORE than 18 engines were manufactured/assembled. How many? I will never guess at that one!

For me, the bottom line fact to this whole bit of Chevy history (and it's QUITE difficult, and sometimes impossible, to convince many people), is that not only did Chevy produce a 427 engine in 1963, BUT THEY BUILT 2 ENTIRELY DIFFERENT 427 ENGINES IN 1963. Then, when you try to explain that the Z11 and the "Mystery" engines were NOT the same, its like beating your head against a brick wall!!!!!!!!!!
OK, so why the heck does it matter, anyway??????
Why does ANYTHING historical matter???????
Who the heck cares???????????
Because if the facts are not correct or are ignored on one issue, then that "care less" attitude also gets carried over to other issues and before you know it, everything becomes, or could become inaccurate. Then eventually, people (who have been misinformed) go around saying "oh this and that is true, because Joe Blow told me so and he is an "expert"! OR, "I read so and so in Super-Duper Auto Mechanics magazine and it has to be the gospel truth because they are the premier magazine in their field of journalism"! :bs :ack:

Sooooooooooooooo, where in the world do you go to get the absolute correct information about this stuff? You gotta go find the guys who were there, who designed it, who built it, who raced it and still have it available for others to see. But, many of those guys are gone, or their memories have faded. Also, get the drawings/documentation out of the archives, if you can access it.

I would find it most interesting as to how many 427 engines from 1963 survived, be it Z-11 or the mystery motor and where or how are they presenting themselves today. A couple are mentioned in this thread, how many more of each are out there?

The individual that did all the dyno work for Smokey currently works for Crane cams in Florida. I think his last name was Johnson. I had reason to talk to them about a 66 Buick sleeper that they did some work on back in the day(Their records only go back to 70). You think its hard tracing secret vette stuff, try Buick. Friend has one of 14 1966 401 ci cheater cars done out the back door for Buick by some guy (Ollie Olson)in Florida who is now dead.

Tyler

Tom... It seemed to me that 18 was a low number.... I merely reitterated what was said in the article.... I would need to look and see how many
races NASCAR ran that year.... and how many people Besides Junior and Smokey were running the engines.... but doesn't that sound like a low number if you were going to supply 2 teams through a season???
The 18 number sounds suspect when you consider qualifying, testing, racing, and dyno mule engines... and we haven't even touched the drag racing teams who ran the Mystery Engine.... or the Road Racing teams
or those used by GM Engineering.
I wonder if it was 18 individuals or teams that got the engine??
If you get a chance... could you list the source on the Smokey/42 engine statement?? Smokey helped develop the Mystery Motor... so if it comes
down to an end user (racer's) word against one of the developers... I'm
going with the developer.

reply
 

The first ever production big block V8 Chevrolet engine was the "W" series, released in 1958 for passenger car and truck use. This engine was an Overhead valve design, with offset valves and unique scalloped rocker covers, giving it a distinctive appearance. The "W" series was produced from 1958 to 1965, with three displacements offered: 348 cubic inches (5.7 L), available from 1958 to 1961 in cars and through 1964 in trucks; 409 cubic inches (6.7 L), available from 1961 to 1965; and 427 cubic inches (7.0 L), available only in 1963.

As was the norm at the time, the "W" engine was of cast iron construction. The block had 4.84-inch (123 mm) bore centers, two-bolt main bearing caps, a "side oiling" lubrication system (main oil gallery located low on the driver's side of the crankcase) with full flow oil filter, and interchangeable cylinder heads. Heads used on the high performance 409 and 427 engines had larger ports and valves than those used on the 348 and the base 409 passenger car and truck engines, but externally were identical to the standard units. One minor difference between the 348 and 409/427 was the location of the engine oil dipstick: it was on the driver's side on the former and passenger's side on the latter. No satisfactory explanation was ever offered for why this change was made. However, it did provide a fairly reliable way to differentiate between the smaller and larger versions of the engine.

As with the 265 and 283 cubic inch small block engines, the "W" engine valve gear consisted of tubular steel push rods operating stud-mounted, stamped steel rocker arms. The push rods also acted as a conduit for oil flow to the valve gear. Due to the relatively low mass of the valve train, mechanical lifter versions of the "W" engine were capable of operating at speeds well beyond 6000 RPM.



thanks




dainik bhasker

Another 6 year old thread back from the grave :reddevil

I like the spark plug locations. post #8

Wow! Another blast from the past! :lol:

Very interesting thread. I didn't know it existed and enjoyed reading it all the way through. Ancient or not, it's timeless.

Jim

Oh boy - a skunk works 401 Buick nailhead. I bet that shook them up at the stoplight grand prix. :ack:

Picture without caption
 

Location of the dipstick is NOT a reliable indicator of 348 vs 409 engine.
The dipstick was on the drivers side on 348 CAR engines, but was on the passenger side on 348 TRUCK engines since the 348 truck engine used the same pan as the 409 truck engine.

Does anybody know what happened to KyleDallas? When he first joined he was very active and seemed to have a deep interest in Chevy racing engine history, then he disappeared almost overnight. Did anyone ever talk to him or know why he left?

This was a thread I missed and am glad to see it back. The picture above is a Corvette. Another note, around Washington D.C. we had Malcolm Durham running a '63 Impala with the Mystery Motor 427. The car was called The Strip Blazer. It did just that. :cheers: Dennis

Is that Paul Goldsmith on the left?

Looks like it might have one of the Corvettes that ran at Daytona in the modified race in '63 that was won by a 421 ci '63 Tempest.

Definition of mystery!
 

Anything that the general public can't get!

PS Yet!

Could it be Mickey Thompson? :thumbs: Dennis

Looks like the engine has a magneto.....................perhaps a Vertex or Joe Hunt. I am surprised that a mag would be allowed in that type of racing back in 1963.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, and your point???????????
It's always good to obtain ANY additional information, OR, provide information for those who are not familiar with past engineering efforts.

AND, by the way, an owner of a 62 Chevy (full size) with alum sheet metal is supposed to call me and provide some historical information (as he knows it) about the handful of 62 Chevys with alum panels.
I find any and all information regarding these early day, low volume performance cars VERY interesting. OH, guess what, there WERE other high perf Chevrolet products built besides Corvettes. :thumbs:

Tom Parsons

BINGO!!!!!
I was just getting ready to point this out! :thumbs:

Here is a 348, built into a 427 by the machinist that I use for all my engines-----------------he's done LOTS of tricks to this motor---------------------ESPECIALLY the tripower setup! This is going in his 58 Cameo. The block, heads, and tripower manifold have 58 casting dates and it has a TRUCK pan. :D

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...O/100_0923.jpg


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...O/100_0924.jpg


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...O/100_0927.jpg


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...O/100_0928.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...O/100_0926.jpg


http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...O/100_0925.jpg

Tom Parsons

The Daytona American Challenge race was a pretty much a race what you have race. It had to be a production car with the same manufacturer engine not to exceed 428 cubic inches and a few other rules. This is a picture of the Winning Tempest that sported a 421 CI engine...
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/63ZO6001.jpg

Bored and stroked to 479 CI

Parked in 1968 after turning 2 rod bearings street racing a BB Corvette:
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/buick/FF05_Before.jpg

Rescued/Restored 2002:
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/buick/FF11_After.jpg

Unfortunately some of the documentation and timing slips burned in a house fire. Raced in earnest 25 times lost only once then parked. Raced Oldsmar and East Tampa dragway in 66-67.

Tom I know Ken turned up a lot of info (work orders etc) on Johns SR1 and the 66 L-88 engines, has he done any looking for the same type info on these engines?, if not maybe you can get him interested in looking since he has the access.

Tyler

You could not walk into a dealer and order the Z-11 copo option, it took special connections with GM. A friend was able to get one, Billy Lagana (his brother is Bobby Lagana who's two sons Bobby Jr and Dominick run current top fuel). He took delivery at Tarrytown (although I don't think assembled there). He took out a car loan and had a payment of something like $80 a month !. The car ran consistent 11,8s, sometimes a little slower, sometimes faster, but only had 7" tires (the rules at the time). I don't know the relation of that motor and the other 427 being discussed, but I do recall back then everyone saying the Z-11 had the mystery 427. He eventually sold the car and bought one of the Ford 427 Falcons which were popular A/FX car of the time. He sold the car to a guy named Ed Robbins who sold his toy train collection to buy the car. He had Jenkins do the tuning. At one point he blew the engine then sold the car for next to nothing. It appeared a few years ago down in Florida with it restored and claiming it had the original 427 in it. The guy later clairifed it was a replacement correct engine (I guess too many knew the original one was junk and thrown in a river!). The car was called "Locomotion" Later these cars would run mid to lower 11's once they began to use larger tires.,

Don't know about the connections. I do know that in the spring of 1963in Gary, Indiana, a guy named "Karras" showed up almost every evening at Sammy's Drive-In in his new Z-11, red Impala.

The Chevys parked on one side of the building and the Mopars on the other. If you had a Ford, you parked over in the rocked part of the lot.

Anyway, he had no engine in the car for at least three months but he'd come almost every evening, being towed in with a chain. Park the car and just sit there until closing time.

Maybe one of you northern Hoosiers remember this guy?

Z-11 engines and parts were easy to get. They stayed in the parts books for quite awhile. Same with many of the body parts.

A little off-topic. How many of you guys know about the complete OTC factory kit to put a FI 327/360 engine, BW T-10, traction bars, exhaust and all the other stuff to install the engine in a first generation Chevy II?:D

no, but his personal mission was to drive Duke Williams off the board, for some reason known only to him, once Duke was gone, Dallas disappeared.

Doug

Bill, Both of those Corvettes are 1963 Z06 corvettes. The ONLY 427 was #3. As mentioned, there was rain (as you can see in the pictures) and there were small "inspection holes" (with flaps) cut in the front inner fenders so the driver could check the wear of the front tires on the banking. However, with the rain, the engine/exhaust turned the spray to fog/mist which coated the inside of the windshield, meaning no vision:ack: Here is a little better picture...
http://i49.tinypic.com/1z1snzq.jpg
This is the 427 below (note the spray)
http://i50.tinypic.com/2n8714.jpg

You are correct I pulled the wrong picture.:D

Nice engine, Tom.
What can you tell me about the carbs installation? I thought about using the Corvette carbs on my 409 with 348 3x2 intake, but didn't think there was enough spacing to fit the carbs on the intake.
BTW, you shoud join us over on the 348-409.com forum, a bunch of great guys there.

Two different engines - the Z-11 was a "W"-block (like the 348/409), and the "Mystery Motor" was the forerunner of the Mark IV big-block. :thumbs:

I understand that John. I was relating what the Z-11 engine was called backin '63. It was called (although incorrectly) the Mystery Motor, this was even by those who owned the cars - go figure !

AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!
This is a prime example of the sort of thing that just drives me up a tree with MANY automotive journalists. Many of them seem to write articles just to see their work in print, and they are NOT knowledgeable of their subject material. Or, they just do not proof read their own material before submitting it for publication. Or, they just DO NOT know what they are writting about, either because they are piggy backing off of some other person's lack of knowledge. Or, they just DO NOT bother to do adequate research about the material because they THINK they are omniscient (all knowing------------I rarely have an opportunity to use these big words :D ). As a result, people who are interested in learning, read this misinformation, and, believing it to be gospel, go out into the world making MORE incorrect statements!!!!!!!
And I could just go on and on and on and on.
Consequently, several years ago I let ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL my automotive publications expire. Not only did I get totally fed up with all the ads (some publications had become virtual catalogs), but I just got sick of the bogus crap in many of the articles.
I THOROUGHLY enjoy reading and learning from truly knowledgeable people who were there, such as John Hinkley (John Z). I REALLY wish Ken Kayser were on here ocassionally. :thumbs:

Tom Parsons

:iagree:While I agree with you, I think that you do a pretty good job on this forum yourself. After all, you do have the only ORIGINAL Air Box 400CID 1956 Fuelie, and I do enjoy ALLLLLL of your posts and comments:D

56...
:rock:
Bill

56? Sorry......dang, that means I can't tell em apart:rofl:

I'm also happy to see this thread resurrected. Mike, regarding your statements above, there is no record of any "package" of Z-11 type parts offered through service parts for racers to upgrade their 409s. It is known that individual parts were made available to some racers late in '62. Racers had to know what they were doing though. The intake valves were moved up a 1/10th of an inch on the Z-11 heads, so bolting them on a stock 409 would result in the valves shaking hands with the pistons if the reliefs weren't cut to make room for them. A lot of Z-11 heads got broken from people who tried it without knowing.
As for the aluminum fender equipped Impalas, they were delivered with stock 409hp 409 motors (no special Z-11 engine parts).

Regarding the Mystery Motors, I had the pleasure to speak with Dick Keinath several times before his passing. He was the engineer completely responsible for the development of that motor. I had also heard from a "reliable" source that 44 engines were built, but not even Dick knew for sure. The motors were in a constant state of development and he wasn't there all the time when they kept cranking them out and shipping them to racers. Dick did tell me that Ford complained to NASCAR and they forced Smokey to deliver 2 of them to Ford for testing. This was all being done without the top brass being aware of it. Dick told me it wasn't until the Feb Daytona race that they even found out about it when a reporter asked an exec about the "new" motor that was there. He replied, "what new motor?". That was when the poop hit the propeller and the plug was pulled on the program and everyone was told their job was at risk if they were caught working on them. There were several blocks and parts still in a design and test loop so it's possible some of them made it out the door or were scrapped. No one really knows for sure how many made it out. No one was counting.
Also of note is the fact that there were 2 versions of the Mystery motor. The first was the MKII which had a 396 cu in displacement. Then the MKIIs (for stroked) was built which was the most notable one at 427 cid.
Here's a pic of one of the first ones, cast in Sept. '62
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...enginedeck.jpg

This particular motor also has one of the extremely rare 2x4 intakes that were made for it. This would indicate an interest in drag racing, since NASCAR only allowed a single 4bbl.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...t62casting.jpg

Here is a different casting number of a motor cast in Jan '63
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...STERYTOE40.jpg

Here is a view of the exhaust port shape.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...STERYTOE10.jpg

A view of the valve train. Notice the cast iron push rod guide plates.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j3...STERYTOE13.jpg

Verne:thumbs:

it is mickey thompson on the left with the crew cut.

Verne,

Glad to see you drop in on this thread as you are an expert on this subject.

Maybe I mis-spoke a little about the "Z-11 package"! Nevertheless, the individual parts were available in late '62 and showed up at the '62 NHRA Nationals at Indy. All the faster cars there had these special parts. At the time, I had no idea these parts had been released for the '62 models and didn't find out until several years later why these '62cars were so much faster later in the year than when first released.

The one car that I have seen up close and personal is one formerly owned by Page Campbell. I understand all the alumnum parts on the car were removed from a former Sox/Martin car.

It's also my understanding The factory built some complete cars as Impalas (not Bel Air) and there was some unique feature about these cars on the firewall. Maybe the body tag or something else located other than standard production? Know anything about this?

MICKEY THOMPSON 63 Z0-6 with 427 Mystery Motor
 

THE MICKEY THOMPSON CORVETTE


The Mickey Thompson Corvette is one of six 1963 Z-06 stingray’s built late in 1962 to race at Riverside in October 1962. This car, and one like it, never saw Riverside. They were destined to compete in a different sort of race for sports cars, a NASCAR sanctioned event on the famous Daytona Oval. This meant the cars needed to be prepared to a different set of rules, the same as those for the big Grand National stock cars. The chassis was modified extensively and an experimental 427 engine installed. The car was lightened in every way possible and weighed just over 2800 pounds. Extra fuel was carried in a specially fabricated 50 gallon tank occupying the area behind the driver. Driven by Junior Johnson, this special car was the fastest qualifier at over 162 mph. Plagued by rain in the race, substitute driver Billy Krause finished third behind Paul Goldsmith’s Pontiac and A.J. Foyt in another Corvette.

Special features of the Mickey Thompson NASCAR Corvette include:

* Special 427 engine * Adjustable front sway bar
* Three speed transmission * Adjustable rear suspension
* Magnesium differential * Flat aluminum floors
* Two shocks per wheel * Special exhaust system
* Special axles * Lightweight fiberglass seats
* 4 wheel disc brakes * 50 gallon gas tank
* Engine oil cooler * Plexiglas windows
* Differential oil cooler * Full roll cage
* Fully welded frame * Aluminum instrument panel

After Daytona, the Mickey Thompson Corvette was returned to California where the 427 engine was removed and the car sold to a Southern California road racer. A 327 Engine was installed and the car was driven again by Billy Krause in the Los Angeles Times Grand Prix at RIVERSIDE in October of 1963.

In 1976, Tom McIntyre purchased the car and began the slow process of figuring out exactly what it was. Years later, Chevrolet engineers divulged that the car was originally powered by an experimental 427 Mk II “Mystery Motor”. Thanks to Smokey Yunick, the Mickey Thompson Corvette and its special engine have been reunited.

The car has been raced across the country in historic events since 1983.

THE CORVETTE AND PAUL GOLDSMITH 421 TEMPEST
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...m/Daytona1.jpg

IN THE RAIN WITH BILLY KRAUSE DRIVER. AS STATED EARLIER, JUNIOR JOHNSON WAS THE ORIGINAL DRIVER WHO QUALIFIED THE CAR ON THE POLE A WEEK EARLIER AT 162 MPH. ON RACE DAY, THERE WAS A LIGHT DRIZZLE DURING PRACTICE. THE CAR HAD RECEIVED PLEXIGLASS WINDOWS, AND ALUMINUM FLOORING PANELS FOR EXTRA STRENGTH. THE HOT EXHAUST UNDER THE FLOOR, CREATED STEAM IN THE COCKPIT THAT ''FOGGED'' THE INSIDE WINDOWS SO BAD THAT JUNIOR BROUGHT THE CAR IN AND SAID.....NOT TODAY ! BILLY KRAUSE, WHO WAS DRIVING THE REGULAR Z0-6 FUEL INJECTED CAR IN THE 3 HOUR ENDURO WAS ASKED IF HE WOULD DRIVE THE CAR. ''CRAZY BILL'' SAID YES, AND BY THE TIME THE RACE STARTED THE WEATHER IMPROVED ENOUGH TO WHERE HE FINISHED 3RD. BILL TOLD ME IN 2005 THAT IT WAS ONE OF THE SCARIEST RIDES OF HIS CAREER. PLENTY OF POWER.....BUT NO CONTROL
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/.../Daytona2M.jpg

AT RACE END, ALL CARS WENT BACK TO TECH WITH THEIR FUEL CANS FOR FIA INSPECTION
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/.../Daytona4M.jpg

TOM MCINTYRE WROTE THIS SOME TIME AGO


1963 Z-06 Purchase and Restoration
By Tom McIntyre


I had been involved in racing a 1966 A C Cobra in historic events since 1973. The Cobra was classified to run with FIA and Can-Am racing cars because of its 427 engine size. This was OK until the big bore McLaren M-8 cars started entering the class. These big cars were difficult to race with because they created air turbulence when they went by. This disturbance would cause the lightweight Cobra to move nearly a car width across the track. It was not really controllable and caused lots of concern about safety.

In 1976, I was approached by Andy Porterfield who was racing a 1968 Corvette in the SCCA B-Production class. Andy had an old Stingray in his shop that he had used to train co-drivers for the special 6-hour races at Riverside Raceway. He had borrowed the car from a man named Norm Burger from Sherman Oaks. Apparently Norm was interested in selling the car and asked Andy to accomplish this for him. Andy had lots of opportunity to market and sell the car as he was still quite active in the racing community. Since the car was now thirteen years old, it wasn’t of much value as a current racing car, but might be fun on the historic circuit. I had known Andy from his SCCA racing, and since I was his only friend in the historic circle, he considered me first as the buyer of this old car.

My roots were firmly embedded in the Ford product line and I had little interest in the Chevrolet Corvette, so I refused the car at first. Almost a year later, I was literally forced by Andy to take this car out of his shop and take it home. What would I do with this beat up old car? I still had little interest, so I felt better sharing it with my good friend Duane Bowers. We each paid Andy for half the car, a very reasonable price even in 1980. We towed the ratty old orange Corvette to Duane’s house where it sat in a carport for over a year. On weekends I would go to Duane’s and take bits and pieces off the car to clean and paint and prepare to fix it up. The condition was so poor that my half-hearted attempts to restore the car were in vain. I gave up and left it to sit. Awhile later, Duane decided to move to a new home, so my storage place was sold and the car needed to move also.

Duane wanted some cash to help buy the new house, so I agreed to buy his half of the car and hauled it to my warehouse in Burbank. It sat again for at least another year before I had had enough of the Can-Am pounding, and wanted to race in the more docile B/Production group. Andy’s Stingray would fit perfectly in that class and would probably be a lot of fun to drive. I contacted a friend, Phil Schmidt, who could help me restore the car. He was interested in the project and started the long process of making the car fresh and new again. He stripped and cleaned and painted and plated and got the car almost finished before something came up and he had to quit before the project was finished. Another friend, Jim Wallace was starting to restore old racing cars and agreed to finish the job Phil had started.
During the rework of some of the major components, it was curious that the fuel tank and the differential were very unusual and seemed quite unique for a local B/P racer. The car had twelve layers of paint on it that hid the secret identity of a very famous Z-06 factory racer.
I had been told the car might have belonged to Mickey Thompson, but never had enough evidence to support that claim.

Wallace did most of the mechanical work to get the chassis race ready. He did the fuel system and wiring and plumbing. He rebuilt the brakes and made the car ready to receive the engine being built by my Cobra friend Dave Dralle. Dave would take the project to completion and do all the final service to make the little car race ready. In May of 1983, the car would take to the Willow Springs Race Track for its maiden voyage. After the first test, most of the bugs were worked out and the car was ready to enter its first race. The 1983 Monterey Historic races would be the first real contest for the shiny blue racer.

On the race entry form, I mentioned the car might have been an ex-Mickey Thompson racer, and the event program reflected that. I hadn’t found the chassis number, so that area was left blank. Some of the other Corvette racers took an interest in my new car and asked if they could try to find a serial number in one of several hidden locations. This might require them to unbolt some important things (like the body) and they wondered if I would mind if they did this. The next morning three guys showed up in white coveralls and began taking pieces off the car to try to locate serial numbers. I would later hear a rumor that Norm Burger borrowed money against the car and the Bank took the chassis tags off so it couldn’t be sold until the money was repaid. The tags never made it back on the car and have never been located. Maybe the Bank is still waiting to be repaid the money they loaned and still hold the tags offered as collateral.

Later that day, the three men would finally locate the chassis number right under a place where the roll cage had been welded. Roll cage? Why would there be a sophisticated roll cage in a local B/P racer? The answer was in the newly discovered chassis number. My new Stingray had been missing for years. It was the third racing Z-06 built. It was one of six lightweight specials built by Zora Duntov to combat the new A C Cobra racers at Riverside in late 1962.

This special Car never made it to Riverside, however. It was destined to race an even more important race with an important driver. It would be disguised as a NASCAR racer, fitted with a 427 Chevrolet MkII, “Mystery Motor” and it would sit on the pole at Daytona USA with the famed Junior Johnson driving. The car was actually built by a trio of pretty famous racers, Mickey Thompson, Smokey Yunick, and Junior Johnson. Each of them Champions in various forms of motor racing.

After a third place finish in the Daytona race, the motor was pulled and the chassis returned to Southern California. Mickey’s job was done, so the car was sold to the aforementioned Norm Burger. Norm fitted a 327 Chevy back into the racing chassis and turned it loose with some heavy sports car racers driving. It traded back and forth between Doug Hooper and Billy Krause. The only victory of record was at Dodger Stadium, with Hooper, in 1963.

Its hard to say who all drove the little car. When it was bought it had the name Sal Tomasello over the door. We don’t know who else was involved, but one thing we do know is that the car was always owned by Norm Burger. It was Norm to whom we made our checks payable, even though we had never met the man.

Since that time, the car has been returned to its racing silver color and original number, as it raced in the NASCAR race. It has been invited to show at Bloomington, Illinois and at the Corvette Museum in Bowling Green, Kentucky. The car has also been to Carlisle, Pennsylvania for a celebration of Corvette racing history. It is believed this is one of the most significant Stingrays ever built.

With the Wild West Racers, the car has performed at nearly every important racing track in the United States. The majority of its current Historic racing was accomplished from 1983 to 1993. It currently resides in Burbank, California.

THE CAR TODAY. THESE PHOTOS WERE TAKEN AT CORVETTES AT CARLISLE RACE CAR REUNION 2004.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...m/DSCN9665.jpg

NOTE THE ''ORIGINAL FRONT SWAY BAR''
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...-272004154.jpg
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...m/image001.jpg
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...m/DSCN9668.jpg
IN 2008, THE CAR WAS DISPLAYED WITH THE ENGINE ''ORIGINAL 427 MARK I ''MYSTERY ENGINE'' THAT TOM HAD PURCHASED AT A SMOKEY PARTS AUCTION IN THE MID 80'S.......THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT STORY.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...tePetersen.jpg
INTERIOR
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...m/DSCN9670.jpg

Why did the #4 run with it's hood 1/2 open? and the 3 has it's headlight doors at half mast. must have been a secret "aero mod" ;)

Russ

It lets the air flow out of the engine compartment, reducing high speed nose lift.

If the car was a running an engine that was not stock, it would be classified as a prototype which means anything goes..............

The ''aero'' on the C-2 Coupe is terrible. At any spped over 120, the car gets very loose as the front end ''lifts'' especially at the base of the windshield. Many race C-1 and C-2 cars had leather straps to keep the hoods secure. The headlight problem was from ''drafting'' the PONTIAC like todays NASCAR racers.

Mike,
Any '62 with Z-ll type engine parts had to run in FX then. The small amount of Impalas that were produced were indeed built at the Flint plant with the aluminum front clips (but no Z-11 engine parts). These were late enough in production to receive the '63 cam and exhaust manifolds however (basically the service package components offered in April of '62, which upgreaded the '62s to '63 specs) but were 100% factory stock 409s with no "special" or "0-" components. They were classed as B/FX purely because of the aluminum body panels. Every original factory-built car that I'm aware of was a Super Sport model. A few others were delivered to dealers who installed the aluminum front end (such as Dick Harrell's car). I'm not aware of any special firewall markings or trim tag codes on these cars. The few I'm aware of and have seen look like any other stock '62 409 car under the hood with the exception of some '63 engine parts. The Zintsmaster car, which is the most original car surviving today has had a Z-11 top half put on the motor not long ago. It is no longer representative of a factory car, unfortunately. It's like painting teeth on the Mona Lisa's smile!

Verne:thumbs:

New information to me here if I'm hearing you right.

Yes, I did know the cars ran FX class.

You're saying that any '62 Impala that was factory built with the aluminum body parts had a 409 engine in it, upgraded to '63 409 specs and was not a Z-11 engine?

Also that the Z-11 engine/parts were available OTC in 1962, say mid-year?

Do I understand you right?

WOW!!! Thanks Jim. I have raced with Tom and his "Wild West Racers" since the St Louis race in August 1985 but never knew the "Whole story".
BTW thank you for the Sports Cars Reunion invitation. Pat and I had a GREAT time with R. David and Sherrie today:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Yes. To my knowledge, no '62 ever left the factory with any Z-11 engine parts on it.
Verne:salute:

Yep, that's what he's saying.
I just had a LONG visit yesterday with an owner of a 62 car that was FLINT built (the ONLY plant where alum panels were ever installed) with alum panels (hood, inner and outer fender panels) and a 409/409.
There were BOTH packages of engine parts, as well as seperate engine parts that would upgrade a 409---------------------NOT a 427, in LATE 1962. The parts (both packages and/or individual parts) were essentially what were installed on the 1963 Z11 Impalas. Some 409 racers, such as Hayden Proffitt, had a crate of heads, intake cam and other hardware shipped directly to them for "field" installation. Also, for those racers in the know, individual parts could be ordered seperately.
The actual number of 1962 Impalas built at Flint with alum panels is not totally clear. But the number is between 18-21 cars. It is understood that Chevrolet built these few LATE 62 Impalas so that they could positively determine if they could put together the Z11 cars for 1963.
So, with all that said, the 1962 cars with upgraded engine parts had 409 engines with what was to be installed on the 63 Z11 427 engines.
The 63 Z11 cars (which was a PACKAGE, NOT just an engine) had the 427 engine, which was a stroked 409 with the different heads, intake, cam, etc (it was a genuine W-motor which was the MK I motor). The Z11 package for 63 was built one way and one way only. It was a plain Impala 2dr------------------NOT an SS. The only variation was body colors.
The 63 427 Mystery Motor was the MK II and basically the forrunner to the 65-later MK IV 396-454 family (it was never production installed, it was clandestinely provided out the "back door" to SELECTED racers). I'm quite sure that everyone here is aware that when the high level Chev/GM brass found out about that mystery engine in mid-63, they mandated that all production and support cease immediately (another clear example of GM's short sightedness back then------------------and it continues today). There was never a MK III, it only existed on drawings, but never built.

Tom Parsons

Apparently, the situation also shut Pontiacs racing activities down at the same time. Pontiac had been ruling the stock tracks up until about that time. 1959-1963.

Pontiac was putting some pretty hot stuff out the door back then. Engine, lightweight Calalinas, the 421 '63 Tempests.

The Chairman of the Board of GM must have had his head up his rear if he didn't know about all that was going on. Everyone else did!:D

The GM Chairman in those days (1958-1967) was Frederic G. Donner, a totally humorless guy whose background was 100% Finance - he didn't know a carburetor from a spark plug, and cared less. He had already been publicly embarrassed by the Nader (Corvair) Senate hearings, and didn't want ANY kind of GM publicity. The LAST thing he cared about was racing or performance in any way, shape, or form. :thumbs:

That was when GM had about 50% of the US car market. Instead of Freddy Boy stepping on the brakes, maybe he should have grabbed another gear and hit the gas!:D

There were two races at DAYTONA, and it gets confusing. THERE WAS ANOTHER 427 MYSTERY MOTOR White Corvette driven by REX WHITE. SO TWO Corvettes with the special 427 engine. It ran only 28 laps. THESE 427 MONSTERS ONLY RACED IN THE 250 MILE ''ALL AMERICAN CHALLANGE'' race on Saturday Feb 16, 1963

Mickey Thompson took 4 CORVETTES to DAYTONA in
February 63.

All were Z0-6 coupes with the big 36 gallon gas tanks. Two of the cars had special 427 'Mystery Motors' and NASCAR Grand National 3 speed transmissions, and heavy modifications as stated earlier. One was silver, the other was white.
These big block monsters raced on Saturday Feb. 16, 1963 in the
DAYTONA 250 mile AMERICAN CHALLENGE RACE, a two hour sprint warm up race against other prototype cars of the era. Junior Johnson qualified the car on Sunday Feb 10 on the pole, but due to light rain on Saturday did not drive the car in the race. Mickey asked Bill Krause to sit in, and he did and finished 4th. That silver car is today owned by Tom McIntyre in
Burbank and we have all seen it race at Monterey Historic since 1985.

Rex White drove the other 427 "Mystery motor " Corvette that day. The car is MIA and still being looked for.

On Sunday, February 17, 1963 the 500 mile CONTINENTAL race
that in 1966 became the 24 hours at Daytona, had the other two
production Mickey Thompson 63 Corvette Z0-6 coupes with the standard 327/360hp fuel injection engine, and 36 gal gas tanks and special brake and suspension systems.

Billy Krause was scheduled and drove the standard Z0-6 silver #4 car, and Doug Hooper drove the dark blue #3 entry which was the same car he drove and won Riverside in October 62 at the TIMES GRAND PRIX.

LATER......The silver # 4 BILLY KRAUSE CAR was entered into the 1963 LeMans race. Both Krause and Hooper were suppose to drive, but after DAYTONA Bunky Knudson put the hammer down hard "NO CORPORATE SPONSORED RACING", and as Doug told me
years ago, "Never quit your day job". The cars and drivers never went to France.

The white REX WHITE 427 car is MIA as well as the DOUG HOOPER #3 Riverside winner and Daytona contender.

CAR & DRIVER, MAY 1963, PAGE 92 SHOWED THIS PHOTO
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/...DMay63-2-2.jpg

Jim
I think this the #4 silver small block car that Franz owns now.
Bill
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/63ZO6001.jpg

I believe that you are right. However, I wasn't aware of the second 427 car.
http://i50.tinypic.com/34987eh.jpg
My, this is a VERY informative thread:-)

We filmed the story 3-14-14
 

I had BILLY KRAUSE, Dick Guldstrand and Paul Reinhart all meet at Tom McIntyre's shop on Friday March 14, 2014. The five of us filmed for over 3 hours the complete ''story'' on this DAYTONA 427 Corvette. BILLY'S race history is amazing.

We also learned that Dick Guldstrand raced this car late in the 1963 season after he rolled his 63 roadster at Riverside. Dick borrowed this 63 ''Mystery'' coupe from Norm Burger, and painted his door number 56 on the sides and raced Portland, Oregon and Seattle's Kent, Washington track so he could keep his SCCA points for the 63 season.

Paul Reinhart discussed how a large wooden box showed up on his front porch full of 4 sets of drums, trailing arms and wheel cylinders and new master cylinder for his Z0-6 race car. This was late in 1963, and was Chevrolet's answer to brake development.