Go Back   Corvette Forum > Off Topic > Politics, Religion & Controversy
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register Albums Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ
Search
Politics, Religion & Controversy Politics | Religion | Controversy (Non-Corvette)

Welcome to Corvetteforum.com!
Welcome to Corvetteforum.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join Corvetteforum.com today!


Corvette Store
 
 
C6 Parts & Accessories
C5 Parts & Accessories
Wheels & Tires
Sponsored Ads
 
 
Vendor Directory
  
Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-01-2013, 12:42 AM   #1
Chambered
CF Senior Member
 
Chambered's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2005
Location: Milford Michigan
Default Viet Nam POW's - 40 Years Later:

This is very moving:
Chambered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 01:13 AM   #2
02*C5
CF Senior Member
 
02*C5's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: Sahuarita AZ
Default

I will always maintain that America as a whole owe these men an apologie. These men where thrown to the waste side once all the lights went dim. During the late 70's and early 80's 20% of all inmates nation wide where men who served in Vietnam with some sort of PTSD. Not untill 1982 was PTSD recognized by the APA and not untill these two resent wars did these men start getting the help they needed.

These are the real heros that men like myself looked up to and hoped to emulate every time we put on our uniform. Men like these men only come once in a lifetime and I hope I trully hope that every time anyone of us younger vets and younger generation thank these men from the bottom of our hearts.

To all my brothers on this board who served during Vietnam thank you, thank you very much for your service and know that as long as I live and my children and their children live your sacrifice will not be forgotten.
02*C5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 09:28 AM   #3
AC54ME
CF Senior Member
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
CI-VI Car Show Winner
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Support Corvetteforum!

 
AC54ME's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Plano Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02*C5 View Post
I will always maintain that America as a whole owe these men an apologie. These men where thrown to the waste side once all the lights went dim.
We have received same - too late, too little.

For myself I'll never, ever forgive the one's in the USA who demeaned and slandered us (ala John Kerry, the bit*h Fonda, et al).
AC54ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 09:37 AM   #4
Mr D.
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
Mr D.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2002
Location: Huntsville AL
Default

Yep Viet Nam POW's and Vets in general got a raw deal from that war.
Mr D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 09:42 AM   #5
RetiredSFC 97
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '09-'10

 
RetiredSFC 97's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in Mo
Default

One of the Soviet Unions greatest victories was getting the American people to turn against VN, and in doing so they weakened the USA and it's military for years.

I have posted the FACTS several times here, but RIM and the protestors still won't acknowledge it as truth.

Still hiding behind momma's skirt and believing they were protesting for the country, when they were protesting to hide their cowardice.

Where did they hide? In a socialist country or at college, which suddenly now many of them despise. Go figure!
RetiredSFC 97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 09:53 AM   #6
jcharity
CF Senior Member
 
jcharity's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02*C5 View Post

To all my brothers on this board who served during Vietnam thank you, thank you very much for your service and know that as long as I live and my children and their children live your sacrifice will not be forgotten.
jcharity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 10:53 AM   #7
ragweed
CF Senior Member

 
ragweed's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2011
Default

Anyone here read Frank Anton's book? Puts the P0W issue in a different light.
ragweed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 10:56 AM   #8
bb62
CF Senior Member

 
bb62's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: Bloomfield Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97 View Post
One of the Soviet Unions greatest victories was getting the American people to turn against VN, and in doing so they weakened the USA and it's military for years.I have posted the FACTS several times here, but RIM and the protestors still won't acknowledge it as truth.

Still hiding behind momma's skirt and believing they were protesting for the country, when they were protesting to hide their cowardice.

Where did they hide? In a socialist country or at college, which suddenly now many of them despise. Go figure!
I disagree with this. A greater Soviet victory was to get the US involved in the first place where we sacrificed lives and treasure for an area of the world that our leadership knew little about. Whether victory was attained or not, it was the involvement that weakened the country.
bb62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 10:58 AM   #9
gryphon
CF Senior Member
 
gryphon's Avatar
 
Member Since: Sep 2001
Location: Okemos Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragweed View Post
Anyone here read Frank Anton's book? Puts the P0W issue in a different light.
Give us Cliff's notes, might be interesting.
gryphon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 11:16 AM   #10
bmans vette
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Support Corvetteforum!
 
bmans vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Athens GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02*C5 View Post
I will always maintain that America as a whole owe these men an apologie. These men where thrown to the waste side once all the lights went dim. During the late 70's and early 80's 20% of all inmates nation wide where men who served in Vietnam with some sort of PTSD. Not untill 1982 was PTSD recognized by the APA and not untill these two resent wars did these men start getting the help they needed.

These are the real heros that men like myself looked up to and hoped to emulate every time we put on our uniform. Men like these men only come once in a lifetime and I hope I trully hope that every time anyone of us younger vets and younger generation thank these men from the bottom of our hearts.

To all my brothers on this board who served during Vietnam thank you, thank you very much for your service and know that as long as I live and my children and their children live your sacrifice will not be forgotten.


Well put Carlos.

Bman
bmans vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 11:19 AM   #11
ragweed
CF Senior Member

 
ragweed's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2011
Default

Frank was shot down in a helicopter gunship in the central highlands. He was captured and spent years in a POW camp in Vietnam before making the trek to the North. While in the South an American helicopter with backseat observer hovered over Frank's compound and they(Frank and observer) made eye contact. The observer shrugged his shoulders and the helicopter flew off. Frank maintains to this day that the powers that be in the US military knew exactly where he was being held. The title of his book is "Why Didn't You Get Me Out?". According to Frank the Government has done everything in it's power to shut him up.
ragweed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 11:39 AM   #12
bmans vette
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Support Corvetteforum!
 
bmans vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Athens GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb62 View Post
I disagree with this. A greater Soviet victory was to get the US involved in the first place where we sacrificed lives and treasure for an area of the world that our leadership knew little about. Whether victory was attained or not, it was the involvement that weakened the country.


Many forget that it was the French who owned Indochina after WW2 and they left us holding the bag.

Those who really want to know about Vietnam need to read the Geneva Accords of 1958.

To blame those of us who saw what this war was about and protesting against it is disingenuous.
The war was never about stopping communism ala Domino Theory. It was about resources/American business interests and an excuse to maintain American military bases in the region.
Were the leaders of South VN democratically elected? or even supportive of democracy? Hell no. They were dictators propped up by US. They cancelled the elections when the opposition party became too strong.

Those that went to VN are just like every vet before and since. They deserve our support and our respect.
Many here cannot distinquish that protesting against a govt and an illegal war does not mean that we cannot support those that went, fought and died.
55,000+ people died on our side for a bad cause. Millions died on the other side during and after the war. Look at Cambodia post VN.

The biggest problem with post VN is not the war but the fact that "we" lost and Americans have a hard time with that. So they look for someone to blame - protestors, students, commies, etc.
Instead of realizing that it was a bad decision to be there in the first place and LBJ's escalation of it was the biggest blunder made. The policy of civilian govt calling the shots militarily was flawed from the beginning.
We could have "won" that war if the military was given the tools and the green light in 1966-7.
THAT was long before the protest movement gained steam.
The protest movement came about when 18yrs old who could not vote were sent to a war that the public did not support.
The mothers of those dead soldiers got tired of body counts and pictures on the evening news.
Especially when the govt could not give them a clear reason for their son's deaths.
Those that say that this was a Soviet plot are clueless. Do you honestly think that the Soviets got to the housewives of America and brainwashed them?
Trust me, there were plenty of middle class/middle aged mothers in those protest lines with me.

Put the blame where it belongs - the Johnson and Nixon administrations and the federal govt. Ask them how many of their sons went and fought and died there.

As for me, I salute all those brave souls.

Peace
Bman
bmans vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 12:03 PM   #13
tempest62
CF Senior Member
 
tempest62's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02*C5 View Post
I will always maintain that America as a whole owe these men an apologie. These men where thrown to the waste side once all the lights went dim. During the late 70's and early 80's 20% of all inmates nation wide where men who served in Vietnam with some sort of PTSD. Not untill 1982 was PTSD recognized by the APA and not untill these two resent wars did these men start getting the help they needed.

These are the real heros that men like myself looked up to and hoped to emulate every time we put on our uniform. Men like these men only come once in a lifetime and I hope I trully hope that every time anyone of us younger vets and younger generation thank these men from the bottom of our hearts.

To all my brothers on this board who served during Vietnam thank you, thank you very much for your service and know that as long as I live and my children and their children live your sacrifice will not be forgotten.
hear hear.

perfect
tempest62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 01:05 PM   #14
RetiredSFC 97
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '09-'10

 
RetiredSFC 97's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in Mo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb62 View Post
I disagree with this. A greater Soviet victory was to get the US involved in the first place where we sacrificed lives and treasure for an area of the world that our leadership knew little about. Whether victory was attained or not, it was the involvement that weakened the country.
Tell that to the man from the Soviet Union who created the strategy. It was his words not mine.

You people who still fight over whether it was a good war or bad war do not understand communism, it's affects, nor the lengths the Soviet Union would go to undermine us.

Patton understood, most did not and to this day do not understand.

Also people to this day believe 911 was set up from our government and couldn't care less how many people were killed so long as they don't have to go. But they still fight VN because it either forced them to serve, forced them to run off to Canada, or forced them to go hide in college. And they can't get over the fact they were cowards. So they fight on and wave I hate Nixon signs in order to call themselves men.

Last edited by RetiredSFC 97; 10-01-2013 at 01:09 PM.
RetiredSFC 97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 03:18 PM   #15
bb62
CF Senior Member

 
bb62's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: Bloomfield Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97 View Post
Tell that to the man from the Soviet Union who created the strategy. It was his words not mine.

You people who still fight over whether it was a good war or bad war do not understand communism, it's affects, nor the lengths the Soviet Union would go to undermine us.

Patton understood, most did not and to this day do not understand.

Also people to this day believe 911 was set up from our government and couldn't care less how many people were killed so long as they don't have to go. But they still fight VN because it either forced them to serve, forced them to run off to Canada, or forced them to go hide in college. And they can't get over the fact they were cowards. So they fight on and wave I hate Nixon signs in order to call themselves men.
Your post is just a rambling post with nothing but conjecture. If you want to debate, I suggest you start a fact based discussion.
bb62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 03:21 PM   #16
RetiredSFC 97
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '09-'10

 
RetiredSFC 97's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in Mo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb62 View Post
Your post is just a rambling post with nothing but conjecture. If you want to debate, I suggest you start a fact based discussion.
Look it up if you don't believe me.
So you use conjecture to tell me I'm using conjecture. Sweet.

Last edited by RetiredSFC 97; 10-01-2013 at 04:03 PM.
RetiredSFC 97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 04:02 PM   #17
RetiredSFC 97
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '09-'10

 
RetiredSFC 97's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in Mo
Default

I have several sources if this one doesn't make you happy



Stanislav Lunev, the highest ranking military intelligence officer ever to defect to the U.S. and to this day part of an extensive "witness protection program" reported that the Soviets spent more for funding the anti-war movement in America than on funding the VietCong. In his own words: "the GRU and the KGB helped to fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad". He describes the campaign as "hugely successful and well worth the cost".
RetiredSFC 97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 04:29 PM   #18
bb62
CF Senior Member

 
bb62's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: Bloomfield Michigan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97 View Post
I have several sources if this one doesn't make you happy



Stanislav Lunev, the highest ranking military intelligence officer ever to defect to the U.S. and to this day part of an extensive "witness protection program" reported that the Soviets spent more for funding the anti-war movement in America than on funding the VietCong. In his own words: "the GRU and the KGB helped to fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad". He describes the campaign as "hugely successful and well worth the cost".
You are confusing ad hoc opportunism (which was very typical of how the Soviet Union operated) with an actual strategy. If you want to read something more akin to "strategy", I suggest you read the X-article "The Sources of Soviet Conduct" written by George Kennan in the July 1947 issue of Foreign Affairs which laid out the containment strategy.

The truth is that the American people saw that the Vietnam war did not have any discernable objective and that it was run poorly by Washington. You like quotes so I'll give you one that more American politicians like Johnson, Obama, or McCain should listen to (or should have listened to): "The whole of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier." Had that thinking be in vogue, perhaps some 58,000 American dead from Vietnam would still be alive, American treasure would be considerably larger than it is now, and American stature would have been unassailed.
bb62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 04:45 PM   #19
RetiredSFC 97
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '09-'10

 
RetiredSFC 97's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in Mo
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bb62 View Post
You are confusing ad hoc opportunism (which was very typical of how the Soviet Union operated) with an actual strategy. If you want to read something more akin to "strategy", I suggest you read the X-article "The Sources of Soviet Conduct" written by George Kennan in the July 1947 issue of Foreign Affairs which laid out the containment strategy.

The truth is that the American people saw that the Vietnam war did not have any discernable objective and that it was run poorly by Washington. You like quotes so I'll give you one that more American politicians like Johnson, Obama, or McCain should listen to (or should have listened to): "The whole of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier." Had that thinking be in vogue, perhaps some 58,000 American dead from Vietnam would still be alive, American treasure would be considerably larger than it is now, and American stature would have been unassailed.
So you can't refute a single thing I said other than to say I'm confused on the facts as they're written by the man who created the strategy.

You should also research the World Peace Council created by the Soviets to try to convince the west to disarm while none of the activities were directed at the Soviet Union.

You can debate the VN war all you want, but the reasons of the time were justified and the peace movement here was in fact funded by the soviets.There is no denying that. The strategy was a failure as is the strategy in the ME now. I would have leveled the place myself.
RetiredSFC 97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 06:33 PM   #20
bmans vette
CF Senior Member
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Support Corvetteforum!
 
bmans vette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Athens GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredSFC 97 View Post
So you can't refute a single thing I said other than to say I'm confused on the facts as they're written by the man who created the strategy.

You should also research the World Peace Council created by the Soviets to try to convince the west to disarm while none of the activities were directed at the Soviet Union.

You can debate the VN war all you want, but the reasons of the time were justified and the peace movement here was in fact funded by the soviets.There is no denying that. The strategy was a failure as is the strategy in the ME now. I would have leveled the place myself.
Sarge....

You know I respect you but I will wholeheartedly disagree with you on this topic.
If the Soviets are the evil empire and we cannot trust them, then how is ONE defector claims to have funded the peace movement and some of you jump on his band wagon?
Where is ONE corroborating American who received funding from the Soviets?
There were HUNDREDS of peace factions throughout the country. Much like the Tea Party, we were not centralized nor had a single leadership council/group.
I attended many rallies and marches both for the anti-war and the civil rights movement and not once did anyone slip a ruble in my pocket.
Some of those who were prominent in the movement went on to serve in govt and no links to any KGB/Soviets were ever found.
It is just the desire to rewrite the history of the VN war and the anti-war movement that drives people today.

So until ONE American steps forward and says that he/she corroborates what this ONE Soviet says, I say please stop allowing yourself to be duped by a "defector". The fact that he defected shows just how trustworthy this guy is....right?

Peace
Bman
bmans vette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2013, 06:33 PM
 
Go Back   Corvette Forum > Off Topic > Politics, Religion & Controversy
Reload this Page Viet Nam POW's - 40 Years Later:
 
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Click for Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 AM.


Emails & Password Backup

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2