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Old 11-05-2012, 05:07 AM   #1
Matter
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Default Kroger to slash hourly workers to avoid Obamacare penalties

Courtesy of Doug Ross.

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Operative Faith reveals that Kroger will soon join the ranks of Darden Restaurants and slash the hours of its non-exempt (hourly) workers to avoid millions in Obamacare penalties.

To give you a sense of Kroger's size and importance, its sales last year were $90 billion and it employs nearly 350,000 people. Most of its jobs are hourly and the vast majority of workers are neither millionaires or billionaires.

Faith is a mid-level manager at Kroger and reports the dire news:
Last week we found out that, beginning in January, any employee who is not full-time at that point, will be limited to 28 hours per week and all new hires will be subject to the same policy.

Currently, part-time employees can work as many hours as needed.


Many Kroger employees, I believe, will be shocked to find out about this new policy.

What this means is that Obamacare will stop tens of thousands of Kroger employees -- most of whom depend on and need the money -- from working more than 28 hours!

Kroger is doing this to avoid paying for full-time healthcare for employees who currently only receive part-time benefits. And they will not get hit with the $3000 penalty.

My own area is a good example. I work with four people who currently get about 36 to 40 hours a week, but they are considered part-time by Kroger and receive limited benefits. Now, they will either have to find another part-time job or they will quit and find a full-time job.

Doug, you need to get this out before Tuesday. People need to understand.

Also, you need to send this to Drudge. This needs to go national.

Marxism might make the rich poorer, but it makes the poor poorer as well.

Centralized, authoritarian command-and-control governments always fail. Always.

Hard-working employees of Kroger and Darden are among the thousands of casualties of Obamacare. And these hourly workers are far from being members of the evil "1%".

And this is only the beginning.

Vote accordingly in November. Repeal Obamacare.
Hope and Change.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:12 AM   #2
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What better way to set the stage for a single-payer system?

Best of all, the Champions of Entitlement will miss the point: that ObamaCare is an ineffective and ham-handed government solution to a problem created by an ineffective and ham-handed government solution to a perceived problem.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:03 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
What better way to set the stage for a single-payer system?

Best of all, the Champions of Entitlement will miss the point: that ObamaCare is an ineffective and ham-handed government solution to a problem created by an ineffective and ham-handed government solution to a perceived problem.
Single payer HC is inevitable. It is just a question of timing. What is being reported for Kroger is going to be the tip of the iceberg.

WSJ piece about the issue - yeah the guy is a lib but I believe he is accurate:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...676417058.html

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Consider a low-income American supporting a family of four deciding whether to take a part-time job that pays $36,000 a year or a full-time job that pays $42,000 a year. According to my research, accepting the higher-paying job could result in the family losing over $10,000 a year in health-care subsidies.

Moreover, by switching low-income employees to part-time positions, rather than offering them health insurance, an employer will be able to save over $3,000 a year by avoiding ObamaCare's employer-mandate penalties. Without further reforms, many employers and employees will jointly benefit if employers make low-income employees part-timers rather than offering them health insurance. The losers will be taxpayers, who will need to fund the subsidies that these employees will be eligible for.

These perverse incentives won't be as extreme for employees with higher incomes, for dual-income families, or for single employees. For instance, a worker supporting a family of four deciding between a job paying $54,000 a year without health insurance and a job paying $72,000 a year with insurance would lose only about $7,000 in annual subsidies by accepting the higher-paying job. And a single employee deciding between those two jobs wouldn't lose any subsidies by accepting the higher-paying job. Nevertheless, many employers will face incentives not to offer health insurance to lower-income employees so those employees can qualify for federal health-care subsidies under ObamaCare.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:39 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by vette6799 View Post
Single payer HC is inevitable. It is just a question of timing. What is being reported for Kroger is going to be the tip of the iceberg.

WSJ piece about the issue - yeah the guy is a lib but I believe he is accurate:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...676417058.html
Do you even know what the big picture here is?

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Old 11-05-2012, 06:42 AM   #5
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Do you even know what the big picture here is?

Why yes I do. You obviously don't. Increasing premium costs are going to get most employers away from paying for HC. Single payer is inevitable.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:46 AM   #6
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Why yes I do. You obviously don't. Increasing premium costs are going to get most employers away from paying for HC. Single payer is inevitable.
You mean the HC tax and it's derivatives......

Single payer can be avoided, and should, at any cost.....
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:20 AM   #7
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The flip side to this is that Kroger will have to hire more workers. I'm not sure how that will play out on a macro-economic basis. Would some of the welfare leeches actually get a job and get off welfare? Or would people that want to work have to get 2 part time jobs to make up for the lost hours?

Maybe some of our smarter CFOT economists could comment on this.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:30 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 85 Dave View Post
The flip side to this is that Kroger will have to hire more workers. I'm not sure how that will play out on a macro-economic basis. Would some of the welfare leeches actually get a job and get off welfare? Or would people that want to work have to get 2 part time jobs to make up for the lost hours?

Maybe some of our smarter CFOT economists could comment on this.
More people working making even less money. The UR goes down and bozo's policies are a success.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:41 AM   #9
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You mean the HC tax and it's derivatives......

Single payer can be avoided, and should, at any cost.....
I hate to say it, but I think single payer is inevitable, as do most docs I know. When you think about it, the dems didn't fight very hard for single payer. In hindsight, I believe that was because they knew that eventually, and that might be a decade or more, single payer was coming.

Obamacare might have speeded up the timetable, but in hindsight, increases in premium costs relative to both GDP growth and inflation make it inevitable. Each year that goes by makes it harder for most families and businesses to pay for HC. As the pool of uninsured people increases, thus creating a bigger burden on the taxpayer, single payer will become the only HC option for the masses. Even if you had real reform, and I don't see that as viable in this political climate regardless of whom is elected, single payer is going to happen.

Tort reform and all of the other items that might make HC more affordable will not reduce premiums but only delay premium growth.

Sorry, I wish I didn't believe this, but I know of no one in the HC field who thinks otherwise.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:45 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by 85 Dave View Post
The flip side to this is that Kroger will have to hire more workers. I'm not sure how that will play out on a macro-economic basis. Would some of the welfare leeches actually get a job and get off welfare? Or would people that want to work have to get 2 part time jobs to make up for the lost hours?

Maybe some of our smarter CFOT economists could comment on this.
You have fewer people unemployed, but larger numbers of underemployed. Unfortunately, total wages do not increase. The statistics don't matter as much as the real number for wages, which is constant.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:48 AM   #11
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What better way to set the stage for a single-payer system?

Best of all, the Champions of Entitlement will miss the point: that ObamaCare is an ineffective and ham-handed government solution to a problem created by an ineffective and ham-handed government solution to a perceived problem.
In all honesty if we re-elect Obama I almost WANT single payer.

Obama-care is a flipping DISASTER.

It expands the roles without any effort to control costs.

It makes an already very expensive system MORE expensive.

SIngle payer comes with all sorts of issues that trouble me but there is one advantage........... and there is no denying it.

Using Canada's model as the only reasonable and obvious view of how it might work?

Canada does effectively RATION the cash distributed......this leads to waiting for care, at least it does for anyone un-wiling or un-able to pay up for private pay care,..............but the UPSIDE (setting aside those who suffer and die waiting) is Canada spends just 10 cents of each dollar in GDP vs the 18 cents and going higher that we pay now.

Crap all over "single payer" for the things you want to but ........cost control is in it's favor vs what we currently do.

If we re-elect Obama there really is no possible way to a place where the FREE MARKETS can be employed to reduce cost........so I'd almost be ready for single payer and I agree that it seems all but inevitable in a country that now polls 70% on the question asking if access to health-care should be a birth-right rather than something you must pay for.

It's just one more of the many issue that DEMAND Obama's removal from office or we really are looking more and more like an "also-ran" in the world.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:20 AM   #12
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In all honesty if we re-elect Obama I almost WANT single payer.

Obama-care is a flipping DISASTER.

It expands the roles without any effort to control costs.

It makes an already very expensive system MORE expensive.

SIngle payer comes with all sorts of issues that trouble me but there is one advantage........... and there is no denying it.

Using Canada's model as the only reasonable and obvious view of how it might work?

Canada does effectively RATION the cash distributed......this leads to waiting for care, at least it does for anyone un-wiling or un-able to pay up for private pay care,..............but the UPSIDE (setting aside those who suffer and die waiting) is Canada spends just 10 cents of each dollar in GDP vs the 18 cents and going higher that we pay now.

Crap all over "single payer" for the things you want to but ........cost control is in it's favor vs what we currently do.

If we re-elect Obama there really is no possible way to a place where the FREE MARKETS can be employed to reduce cost........so I'd almost be ready for single payer and I agree that it seems all but inevitable in a country that now polls 70% on the question asking if access to health-care should be a birth-right rather than something you must pay for.

It's just one more of the many issue that DEMAND Obama's removal from office or we really are looking more and more like an "also-ran" in the world.
With HC costs going ever higher as a percentage of GDP, even without Obamacare, single payer was the only possible outcome, particularly when you look at wage growth in the US which has been poor for years.

The picture is not going to be pretty. We have a large and growing shortage of doctors in the US that will not be alleviated for a couple of decades at best.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:33 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Matter View Post
Courtesy of Doug Ross.



Hope and Change.



They are free to make that choice,






and I am free to shop at meijers, sams club, and nino salvaggios.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:35 AM   #14
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At one time Kroger had union workers. Still true?

Are you telling us that their very own union voted themselves out of pay and healthcare benefits by supporting Obama ?
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:47 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 85 Dave View Post
The flip side to this is that Kroger will have to hire more workers. I'm not sure how that will play out on a macro-economic basis. Would some of the welfare leeches actually get a job and get off welfare? Or would people that want to work have to get 2 part time jobs to make up for the lost hours?

Maybe some of our smarter CFOT economists could comment on this.



But Kroger will go thru employees like toilet paper now. (not like they dont already )

Make sure you recount your change if you pay cash.
They cant count down from a 20 dollar bill.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by vette6799 View Post
With HC costs going ever higher as a percentage of GDP, even without Obamacare, single payer was the only possible outcome, particularly when you look at wage growth in the US which has been poor for years.

The picture is not going to be pretty. We have a large and growing shortage of doctors in the US that will not be alleviated for a couple of decades at best.
I feel for anyone who works in health care today. In a very short period of time really........ we've managed to flip a wonderful demographic picture for those involved into a LOSER!

My husband is a Registered Nurse who works in management at a local hospital today. He talks about a very uncomfortable effort to control costs. Nurses on his floor are working "short" of staff because the hospital itself is far more challenged to cover the uncovered costs of the people who receive care paid for by Medicaid and Medicare. Cost shifting isn't working as well as it used to in a world where fewer people are actually insured. Mean-while the hospital's charity mission can't raise the cash in Obama's economy that it has in the past.

In the end it's really very obvious. Health care in general is gonna have to provide MORE care to MORE people on LESS money per person than in the past.

Moving to single payer could alleviate the financial burden to society, assuming we do it as well as Canada has, but for patients and health care workers both........ we all better get used to the idea of........LESS than what we've enjoyed in the past.

I frame this as a CHOICE.........but make no mistake........it really isn't a choice. It's something we either choose and shape ourselves or it's simply forced upon us by the financial realities of too many people accessing a system that can't raise the cash per patient it used to.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:59 AM   #17
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The picture is not going to be pretty. We have a large and growing shortage of doctors in the US that will not be alleviated for a couple of decades at best.

I agree........take a peak in the Physician's directory of ANY hospital in the country and just TRY to pronounce all the names correctly.

We supplement the need and alleviate the shortage of Doctors by attracting foreign born and educated physicians.

Go to a system where they earn little more than they would in their home countries......see a USA in decline over-all .......this happening as other countries are getting wealthier..........

You have to wonder.......do foreign born doctors keep coming at the rate they have?

You can call me skepitical...... at best.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:05 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Krystal View Post
I feel for anyone who works in health care today. In a very short period of time really........ we've managed to flip a wonderful demographic picture for those involved into a LOSER!

My husband is a Registered Nurse who works in management at a local hospital today. He talks about a very uncomfortable effort to control costs. Nurses on his floor are working "short" of staff because the hospital itself is far more challenged to cover the uncovered costs of the people who receive care paid for by Medicaid and Medicare. Cost shifting isn't working as well as it used to in a world where fewer people are actually insured. Mean-while the hospital's charity mission can't raise the cash in Obama's economy that it has in the past.

In the end it's really very obvious. Health care in general is gonna have to provide MORE care to MORE people on LESS money per person than in the past.

Moving to single payer could alleviate the financial burden to society, assuming we do it as well as Canada has, but for patients and health care workers both........ we all better get used to the idea of........LESS than what we've enjoyed in the past.

I frame this as a CHOICE.........but make no mistake........it really isn't a choice. It's something we either choose and shape ourselves or it's simply forced upon us by the financial realities of too many people accessing a system that can't raise the cash per patient it used to.
It isn't a choice for the vast majority of people. Most are going to the single payer pool. Those with bucks will still go with private insurance, but that will be very expensive.

My wife and two sons are in medicine....wife and one son are docs, other son will be in two years. I know a ton of docs...few of them are happy. Should the gov start making cutbacks to doctor income, which has been flat for a decade or more, there will be a revolt. God help us if they only work 40 hour weeks. Lines around clinics will look like early voting.

Note this article that talks about the doctor shortage:

https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/fixdocshortage/

Additionally, funding for teaching hospitals is being cut back. It is an ugly picture. Enjoy what you have while you can.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Krystal View Post
My husband is a Registered Nurse who works in management at a local hospital today. He talks about a very uncomfortable effort to control costs. Nurses on his floor are working "short" of staff because the hospital itself is far more challenged to cover the uncovered costs of the people who receive care paid for by Medicaid and Medicare.
I see the same thing in local hospitals. The larger problem is uninsured. and hospitals are bearing the bulk brunt of the problem.


But the recession and companies ditching hc to prop up their margins is largely responsible.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:11 AM   #20
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The answer surely is more goverment. Surely it is.
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