Fast list 1/4 mile time keeping question / discussion
03-11-2013, 09:24 PM
#61
Dig
Member Since: Jan 2006
Location: Port Saint Lucie FLORIDA & HONDURAS
Posts: 4,816
Received 760 Likes
on
516 Posts
C5 list with owner/driver being stated as "top dogs" or not, stated first. Secondary drivers (non owners) on same list BUT explicitly stating in RED they are not the owner beside the owners best ET.
This will all come together. I'm not sure why I'm into this C5 list even when I have a C5Z that doesn't count...
This will all come together. I'm not sure why I'm into this C5 list even when I have a C5Z that doesn't count...
03-12-2013, 10:08 AM
#62
Premium Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Providing the most proven supercharger kits for your C5/6/7 609-752-0321
Posts: 23,321
Received 1,090 Likes
on
658 Posts
and that's alright that you feel that way, after all isn't that what happens most of the time anyway, that we push ourselves to learn more and get better? How do we get better - MORE SEAT TIME!!
and more mods but that's another discussion
This discussion has taken a little twist and that is to keep the main part of the list as the owner driver. 95% of the time it's going to be owner/operator anyway. The guy who just picked up his first C5 and is very proud of his vehicle and him/herself for running the 12 sec 1/4 mile... they have the same feeling that someone else may experiences when they run into the 10's for the first time.
But, it's also for the person who picks up the phone and asks the question: I live in this part of the country and what do I need to do to run an 11.50 quarter mile? That person will have a place to come to see different setups running the times that they are looking for and at that point will be able to draw their own conclusions as to what type of setup choices available to meet their goals... And the guy who has the potential to break into the 9's but doesn't quite know what the car is doing but it "just doesn't feel right".
But here's another scenario; we recently had a rental and because a lot of us are friends and help each other to go faster, sometimes it's not uncommon to let one of your buddies drive your car. My mechanic, Tommy for example, does drive mine and others occasionally. He does this stuff for a living, I don't and I wanted a second opinion ... not knowing if everything is fine or something is about ready to go. so, what if he did a test drive and went faster than my best time? Would it not count? Maybe I didn't drive it but certainly my car went faster, no?
a. I would now be able to find out what he did differently from me and I would try to improve my driving by following his recommendations. Isn't this what makes us better at almost all things? following the advice and experience of others who have more experience and have done it before -- at work we call them mentors.
b. The potential of my car with me in it and if all of the variables were the same. I now have something to shoot for knowing the car is capable of at least THAT time... The car can do it ... it's just now my turn to make it happen.
3 or, we could do nothing like the car never ran it
.
and more mods but that's another discussion
This discussion has taken a little twist and that is to keep the main part of the list as the owner driver. 95% of the time it's going to be owner/operator anyway. The guy who just picked up his first C5 and is very proud of his vehicle and him/herself for running the 12 sec 1/4 mile... they have the same feeling that someone else may experiences when they run into the 10's for the first time.
But, it's also for the person who picks up the phone and asks the question: I live in this part of the country and what do I need to do to run an 11.50 quarter mile? That person will have a place to come to see different setups running the times that they are looking for and at that point will be able to draw their own conclusions as to what type of setup choices available to meet their goals... And the guy who has the potential to break into the 9's but doesn't quite know what the car is doing but it "just doesn't feel right".
But here's another scenario; we recently had a rental and because a lot of us are friends and help each other to go faster, sometimes it's not uncommon to let one of your buddies drive your car. My mechanic, Tommy for example, does drive mine and others occasionally. He does this stuff for a living, I don't and I wanted a second opinion ... not knowing if everything is fine or something is about ready to go. so, what if he did a test drive and went faster than my best time? Would it not count? Maybe I didn't drive it but certainly my car went faster, no?
a. I would now be able to find out what he did differently from me and I would try to improve my driving by following his recommendations. Isn't this what makes us better at almost all things? following the advice and experience of others who have more experience and have done it before -- at work we call them mentors.
b. The potential of my car with me in it and if all of the variables were the same. I now have something to shoot for knowing the car is capable of at least THAT time... The car can do it ... it's just now my turn to make it happen.
3 or, we could do nothing like the car never ran it
.
that is exactly what I am trying not to see happen. Every car that ran a number should be recognized. Separately for non owner drivers.
"3" is how the Z lists are ran on this forum and from the outside looking in, it really looks like it's done that way so those who run it insure that they stay on top of it. I'm SURE thats not the case... but boy does it look that way.
Besides, maybe I'm alone here on this one, but if I was an "independent" who built a record holding car that surpassed the "hot shoe driver" or shop car, wouldn't that be the sweetest victory? Having your name in all black on the top spot is seriously something I would consider an honor.
03-12-2013, 02:21 PM
#63
Instructor
I would say, run the list dependent upon who it is you are trying to appeal to.
Meaning...
If you are trying to appeal to competitive drivers, you might want to limit the list to personally driven vehicles. After all, think about the conversation that the owner will have about the record. Can you truly say, "I have the record for dot dot dot." No, because that car is not capable of that time while he's driving it around on a nice weekend. Some GT500 on the highway is going to embarrass him if the owner bases the car's abilities off of the "hired driver's" time slip.
I would think a separate list for third-party driver's would eliminate the argument. People can make up their own minds who they think has the fastest car given a set of mods.
However...
If your demographic is people researching setups and trying to decipher the Corvette's potential, the list needs to specify all mods, whether the driver thinks they are irrelevant or not, tire, tuner, and, yes, driver. All of those are critical factors in how fast a car actually is and gives a potential buyer a good idea of where they will be at when they compare their own mods and assumed driving ability.
Again (in either instance) I would think the easiest solution would be a separate list or listed under mods, for drivers other than the owner.
Meaning...
If you are trying to appeal to competitive drivers, you might want to limit the list to personally driven vehicles. After all, think about the conversation that the owner will have about the record. Can you truly say, "I have the record for dot dot dot." No, because that car is not capable of that time while he's driving it around on a nice weekend. Some GT500 on the highway is going to embarrass him if the owner bases the car's abilities off of the "hired driver's" time slip.
I would think a separate list for third-party driver's would eliminate the argument. People can make up their own minds who they think has the fastest car given a set of mods.
However...
If your demographic is people researching setups and trying to decipher the Corvette's potential, the list needs to specify all mods, whether the driver thinks they are irrelevant or not, tire, tuner, and, yes, driver. All of those are critical factors in how fast a car actually is and gives a potential buyer a good idea of where they will be at when they compare their own mods and assumed driving ability.
Again (in either instance) I would think the easiest solution would be a separate list or listed under mods, for drivers other than the owner.
03-12-2013, 06:34 PM
#65
Race Director
all these reasons leave me to believe that Tommyd has chosen the right path in the way he keeps his list, my name is listed as the driver because i am the owner, and everyone knows i didn't drive that pass, but have driven most of the passes, the information is very easy to see or obtain by the fact the list is in its entirety from page one, and additions are usually accompanied with links to threads explaining, its the only list that compliments the shop the owner and the driver, and allowing the addition of non and banned members cars helping promote the shops the pay sponsorship money so we can all be here, no matter who is driving the car was capable of running the time with the mods and tuning and no matter how you slice it, there is a mod called the driver mod, it is an ability mod and a weight reduction mod, and mods are allowable in all classes, look at any other list on the forum, the C6 list is the biggest, all the info is obtainable from it and its the example that all lists should follow, i have checked lists on other forums and couldn't find a date of the run the track or even the time slip or the written slip a link and even the person had there mph listed up to 5 mph difference on different forums for the same run.