Question for body guys
03-29-2014, 12:20 AM
#1
Cruising
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Question for body guys
I have a 66 that I am fitting a ACI 1 piece front end on, I have have a new Coffman radiator support and have 2 shims under each side of the support. I have ground off all the old bonding material and the front end is against the bird cage bonding strips. The front support rods are bolted in ,the problem is that the front of the nose is about 1 inch to low, the bottom of the hood is hitting the top of radiator support & keeping the front of the hood up. Don't know what I might be missing or what measurements to take. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
03-29-2014, 05:50 PM
#3
Race Director
Several questions that need to be answered:
Is the ACI front clip a complete front clip...meaning that the raised center section of the cowl panel is a part of the clip...or has it been cut where the center of the factory cowl would remain?
Are you using press-molded inner skirts??? Or are they hand-laid???
The reason for the first question is if you have NOT bonded in your inner skirts...and have the hood installed in the front clip PRIOR to attempting to install it...you are going to FIGHT it and IT will win. And if the front clip is a partial clip and not complete in the area of the cowl...it will be really hard to make sure that you got the hood set and the inner skirts bonded in place correctly...and still giving you some adjustment in the hinges....due to the size of the holes in the hood hinges for adjustment. You so have some adjustment in the hood hinges...so take that into account when you are setting it up. when I am setting up the hood and skirts...if ANYTHING...I want the front clip to be a tad higher than the hood...that way I can slide a shin under the hinge and get the hood up. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES...do you want to bond the inner skirts in and the hood is HIGHER than the front clip area...BY THE HOOD HINGE.
In some occasions...when I have got the front clip all set-up ad bonded in place...and the hood is PERFECT at the hinge points (flush)..and the area at the front of the hood is UP a little bit. i have installed a rod that will raise the center of the front clip to get the hood to be flush all the way across the front edge of the hood and front clip area by the headlights.
Shimming the front mount area for the radiator support will not change anything other than the clearance above the air cleaner and how the rear line of the fender will match up to your door edge. This is why it is (IN MY OPINION...and how I do it) is get the inner skirts bonded in place and make sure the hood is correct...
You can not have loose skirts...that are bolted to a radiator support...and then expect the front clip to want to "act" right. C3's can have loose skirts...that can be bonded in place later...but not a C2...or at least I have found that my way of doing it makes me not fight it. the inner skirts are a BEAR to get right if they are hand-laid and NOT press-molded factory ones.
What do you mean by the "nose is 1 inch low"? Where is it low...and if your skirts are not bonded in place and you are relying on the rods to hold things...you are mistaken...like I have mentioned...I would not do it that way. AND...you are aware that the nose does pitch downwards...it is made that way...and it starts "pitching" down right in front of the front wheel openings.
The "given" dimension is when the inner skirt is bonded in place...and the hood hinge is installed and then the hood installed. Even with the front clip NOT bonded in place...the hood should clear and work without hitting because you have got the clip and the skirts CORRECT and the hinge is just what it is...the mechanism to pivot the hood. So shimming the radiator support is doing nothing...like I wrote to change the fact that the hood is hitting the support.
Also...the steel reinforcement plates that get riveted to the inner skirts so you have something for the bolts that hold the radiator support and hood hinges...are they being used???
DO NOT be surprised that when you fo an begin installing the headlight buckets...that some major filling or grinding may need to take place so the gaps around the headlight buckets are correct. I can spend days on getting the headlight buckets installed and the feature line(s) all perfect...and the gaps between the buckets being level and NOTHING that will rub when they are rotated. I will carefully clean-up and fill in the areas at the back edge of the headlight openings so all of the adhesive they used is cleaned up and filled in so I have NO SURPRISES ( which I have had in the past) and REGRET not spending the time around the headlight buckets.
When you have the hood and such corrected....and you have NOT yet bonded the clip on ...but it is secured by clamps. You might want to make sure that you measure out the front clip and I actually spend the time in getting the bumpers installed. I KNOW...I KNOW..."I can do them later." you might say. WELL...go ahead and then only to find out that you could have corrected an issue with the brackets and such in some minor adjustments in the front clip that can not be seen...but now you have major cutting and modifications to brackets because you did not check them first.
Also check to make sure that the windshield trim fits correctly if it is a complete front clip. A lot of time in this area also getting the gap of adhesive to work for you.
Lastly...and I know you might not think it is much...but you will also want to verify your rocker panel. If the fender is down a bit more than needed (1/16")...you will scrape paint off your fender when you go and install the rocker panel due to the method of having to go down over the bolted down retainer.
Not knowing if you care to due it but take it from me...it is worth it to do so. And knowing that you are not worrying about being factory perfect. I would HIGHLY ADVISE install in upper fender/top hood surround shield in the front clip while you can still flip it over and work on it. These shields (l & r) will STOP any chance of a rock getting caught in the tire and slinging up can creating a "star-burst" crack in your new front clip above the tire/wheel area. ALL front clips and or top hood surrounds get them when I do them...and they are installed on the Corvettes that I restore/paint also...because ...trust me...fixing a star-burst crack that COULD HAVE been prevented...is more time and aggravation than you can IMAGINE!!!!! If you have the old clip...the section can be cut out and installed...if not...I make mine right off the area above the tire with fiberglass and resin....or you can use whatever you find if you feel it is worth it. And if you don't think it is worth it...Think about this. I just went for a drive in the Corvette and when driving I heard a big "thud"...and when I got home I was walking by the drivers side front area and right above the tire area is a big star-burst crack...NOW...guess how long it is going to take to fix it correctly.....and like I wrote...the time in installing these shields is NOTHING to fixing that star-burst crack....especially on fresh paint work that is under 2 years of drying time.
DUB
Is the ACI front clip a complete front clip...meaning that the raised center section of the cowl panel is a part of the clip...or has it been cut where the center of the factory cowl would remain?
Are you using press-molded inner skirts??? Or are they hand-laid???
The reason for the first question is if you have NOT bonded in your inner skirts...and have the hood installed in the front clip PRIOR to attempting to install it...you are going to FIGHT it and IT will win. And if the front clip is a partial clip and not complete in the area of the cowl...it will be really hard to make sure that you got the hood set and the inner skirts bonded in place correctly...and still giving you some adjustment in the hinges....due to the size of the holes in the hood hinges for adjustment. You so have some adjustment in the hood hinges...so take that into account when you are setting it up. when I am setting up the hood and skirts...if ANYTHING...I want the front clip to be a tad higher than the hood...that way I can slide a shin under the hinge and get the hood up. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES...do you want to bond the inner skirts in and the hood is HIGHER than the front clip area...BY THE HOOD HINGE.
In some occasions...when I have got the front clip all set-up ad bonded in place...and the hood is PERFECT at the hinge points (flush)..and the area at the front of the hood is UP a little bit. i have installed a rod that will raise the center of the front clip to get the hood to be flush all the way across the front edge of the hood and front clip area by the headlights.
Shimming the front mount area for the radiator support will not change anything other than the clearance above the air cleaner and how the rear line of the fender will match up to your door edge. This is why it is (IN MY OPINION...and how I do it) is get the inner skirts bonded in place and make sure the hood is correct...
You can not have loose skirts...that are bolted to a radiator support...and then expect the front clip to want to "act" right. C3's can have loose skirts...that can be bonded in place later...but not a C2...or at least I have found that my way of doing it makes me not fight it. the inner skirts are a BEAR to get right if they are hand-laid and NOT press-molded factory ones.
What do you mean by the "nose is 1 inch low"? Where is it low...and if your skirts are not bonded in place and you are relying on the rods to hold things...you are mistaken...like I have mentioned...I would not do it that way. AND...you are aware that the nose does pitch downwards...it is made that way...and it starts "pitching" down right in front of the front wheel openings.
The "given" dimension is when the inner skirt is bonded in place...and the hood hinge is installed and then the hood installed. Even with the front clip NOT bonded in place...the hood should clear and work without hitting because you have got the clip and the skirts CORRECT and the hinge is just what it is...the mechanism to pivot the hood. So shimming the radiator support is doing nothing...like I wrote to change the fact that the hood is hitting the support.
Also...the steel reinforcement plates that get riveted to the inner skirts so you have something for the bolts that hold the radiator support and hood hinges...are they being used???
DO NOT be surprised that when you fo an begin installing the headlight buckets...that some major filling or grinding may need to take place so the gaps around the headlight buckets are correct. I can spend days on getting the headlight buckets installed and the feature line(s) all perfect...and the gaps between the buckets being level and NOTHING that will rub when they are rotated. I will carefully clean-up and fill in the areas at the back edge of the headlight openings so all of the adhesive they used is cleaned up and filled in so I have NO SURPRISES ( which I have had in the past) and REGRET not spending the time around the headlight buckets.
When you have the hood and such corrected....and you have NOT yet bonded the clip on ...but it is secured by clamps. You might want to make sure that you measure out the front clip and I actually spend the time in getting the bumpers installed. I KNOW...I KNOW..."I can do them later." you might say. WELL...go ahead and then only to find out that you could have corrected an issue with the brackets and such in some minor adjustments in the front clip that can not be seen...but now you have major cutting and modifications to brackets because you did not check them first.
Also check to make sure that the windshield trim fits correctly if it is a complete front clip. A lot of time in this area also getting the gap of adhesive to work for you.
Lastly...and I know you might not think it is much...but you will also want to verify your rocker panel. If the fender is down a bit more than needed (1/16")...you will scrape paint off your fender when you go and install the rocker panel due to the method of having to go down over the bolted down retainer.
Not knowing if you care to due it but take it from me...it is worth it to do so. And knowing that you are not worrying about being factory perfect. I would HIGHLY ADVISE install in upper fender/top hood surround shield in the front clip while you can still flip it over and work on it. These shields (l & r) will STOP any chance of a rock getting caught in the tire and slinging up can creating a "star-burst" crack in your new front clip above the tire/wheel area. ALL front clips and or top hood surrounds get them when I do them...and they are installed on the Corvettes that I restore/paint also...because ...trust me...fixing a star-burst crack that COULD HAVE been prevented...is more time and aggravation than you can IMAGINE!!!!! If you have the old clip...the section can be cut out and installed...if not...I make mine right off the area above the tire with fiberglass and resin....or you can use whatever you find if you feel it is worth it. And if you don't think it is worth it...Think about this. I just went for a drive in the Corvette and when driving I heard a big "thud"...and when I got home I was walking by the drivers side front area and right above the tire area is a big star-burst crack...NOW...guess how long it is going to take to fix it correctly.....and like I wrote...the time in installing these shields is NOTHING to fixing that star-burst crack....especially on fresh paint work that is under 2 years of drying time.
DUB
03-29-2014, 09:54 PM
#4
Cruising
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Member Since: Feb 2014
Location: Whitehouse Station New Jersey
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Front clip
Several questions that need to be answered:
Is the ACI front clip a complete front clip...meaning that the raised center section of the cowl panel is a part of the clip...or has it been cut where the center of the factory cowl would remain?
Are you using press-molded inner skirts??? Or are they hand-laid???
The reason for the first question is if you have NOT bonded in your inner skirts...and have the hood installed in the front clip PRIOR to attempting to install it...you are going to FIGHT it and IT will win. And if the front clip is a partial clip and not complete in the area of the cowl...it will be really hard to make sure that you got the hood set and the inner skirts bonded in place correctly...and still giving you some adjustment in the hinges....due to the size of the holes in the hood hinges for adjustment. You so have some adjustment in the hood hinges...so take that into account when you are setting it up. when I am setting up the hood and skirts...if ANYTHING...I want the front clip to be a tad higher than the hood...that way I can slide a shin under the hinge and get the hood up. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES...do you want to bond the inner skirts in and the hood is HIGHER than the front clip area...BY THE HOOD HINGE.
In some occasions...when I have got the front clip all set-up ad bonded in place...and the hood is PERFECT at the hinge points (flush)..and the area at the front of the hood is UP a little bit. i have installed a rod that will raise the center of the front clip to get the hood to be flush all the way across the front edge of the hood and front clip area by the headlights.
Shimming the front mount area for the radiator support will not change anything other than the clearance above the air cleaner and how the rear line of the fender will match up to your door edge. This is why it is (IN MY OPINION...and how I do it) is get the inner skirts bonded in place and make sure the hood is correct...
You can not have loose skirts...that are bolted to a radiator support...and then expect the front clip to want to "act" right. C3's can have loose skirts...that can be bonded in place later...but not a C2...or at least I have found that my way of doing it makes me not fight it. the inner skirts are a BEAR to get right if they are hand-laid and NOT press-molded factory ones.
What do you mean by the "nose is 1 inch low"? Where is it low...and if your skirts are not bonded in place and you are relying on the rods to hold things...you are mistaken...like I have mentioned...I would not do it that way. AND...you are aware that the nose does pitch downwards...it is made that way...and it starts "pitching" down right in front of the front wheel openings.
The "given" dimension is when the inner skirt is bonded in place...and the hood hinge is installed and then the hood installed. Even with the front clip NOT bonded in place...the hood should clear and work without hitting because you have got the clip and the skirts CORRECT and the hinge is just what it is...the mechanism to pivot the hood. So shimming the radiator support is doing nothing...like I wrote to change the fact that the hood is hitting the support.
Also...the steel reinforcement plates that get riveted to the inner skirts so you have something for the bolts that hold the radiator support and hood hinges...are they being used???
DO NOT be surprised that when you fo an begin installing the headlight buckets...that some major filling or grinding may need to take place so the gaps around the headlight buckets are correct. I can spend days on getting the headlight buckets installed and the feature line(s) all perfect...and the gaps between the buckets being level and NOTHING that will rub when they are rotated. I will carefully clean-up and fill in the areas at the back edge of the headlight openings so all of the adhesive they used is cleaned up and filled in so I have NO SURPRISES ( which I have had in the past) and REGRET not spending the time around the headlight buckets.
When you have the hood and such corrected....and you have NOT yet bonded the clip on ...but it is secured by clamps. You might want to make sure that you measure out the front clip and I actually spend the time in getting the bumpers installed. I KNOW...I KNOW..."I can do them later." you might say. WELL...go ahead and then only to find out that you could have corrected an issue with the brackets and such in some minor adjustments in the front clip that can not be seen...but now you have major cutting and modifications to brackets because you did not check them first.
Also check to make sure that the windshield trim fits correctly if it is a complete front clip. A lot of time in this area also getting the gap of adhesive to work for you.
Lastly...and I know you might not think it is much...but you will also want to verify your rocker panel. If the fender is down a bit more than needed (1/16")...you will scrape paint off your fender when you go and install the rocker panel due to the method of having to go down over the bolted down retainer.
Not knowing if you care to due it but take it from me...it is worth it to do so. And knowing that you are not worrying about being factory perfect. I would HIGHLY ADVISE install in upper fender/top hood surround shield in the front clip while you can still flip it over and work on it. These shields (l & r) will STOP any chance of a rock getting caught in the tire and slinging up can creating a "star-burst" crack in your new front clip above the tire/wheel area. ALL front clips and or top hood surrounds get them when I do them...and they are installed on the Corvettes that I restore/paint also...because ...trust me...fixing a star-burst crack that COULD HAVE been prevented...is more time and aggravation than you can IMAGINE!!!!! If you have the old clip...the section can be cut out and installed...if not...I make mine right off the area above the tire with fiberglass and resin....or you can use whatever you find if you feel it is worth it. And if you don't think it is worth it...Think about this. I just went for a drive in the Corvette and when driving I heard a big "thud"...and when I got home I was walking by the drivers side front area and right above the tire area is a big star-burst crack...NOW...guess how long it is going to take to fix it correctly.....and like I wrote...the time in installing these shields is NOTHING to fixing that star-burst crack....especially on fresh paint work that is under 2 years of drying time.
DUB
Is the ACI front clip a complete front clip...meaning that the raised center section of the cowl panel is a part of the clip...or has it been cut where the center of the factory cowl would remain?
Are you using press-molded inner skirts??? Or are they hand-laid???
The reason for the first question is if you have NOT bonded in your inner skirts...and have the hood installed in the front clip PRIOR to attempting to install it...you are going to FIGHT it and IT will win. And if the front clip is a partial clip and not complete in the area of the cowl...it will be really hard to make sure that you got the hood set and the inner skirts bonded in place correctly...and still giving you some adjustment in the hinges....due to the size of the holes in the hood hinges for adjustment. You so have some adjustment in the hood hinges...so take that into account when you are setting it up. when I am setting up the hood and skirts...if ANYTHING...I want the front clip to be a tad higher than the hood...that way I can slide a shin under the hinge and get the hood up. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES...do you want to bond the inner skirts in and the hood is HIGHER than the front clip area...BY THE HOOD HINGE.
In some occasions...when I have got the front clip all set-up ad bonded in place...and the hood is PERFECT at the hinge points (flush)..and the area at the front of the hood is UP a little bit. i have installed a rod that will raise the center of the front clip to get the hood to be flush all the way across the front edge of the hood and front clip area by the headlights.
Shimming the front mount area for the radiator support will not change anything other than the clearance above the air cleaner and how the rear line of the fender will match up to your door edge. This is why it is (IN MY OPINION...and how I do it) is get the inner skirts bonded in place and make sure the hood is correct...
You can not have loose skirts...that are bolted to a radiator support...and then expect the front clip to want to "act" right. C3's can have loose skirts...that can be bonded in place later...but not a C2...or at least I have found that my way of doing it makes me not fight it. the inner skirts are a BEAR to get right if they are hand-laid and NOT press-molded factory ones.
What do you mean by the "nose is 1 inch low"? Where is it low...and if your skirts are not bonded in place and you are relying on the rods to hold things...you are mistaken...like I have mentioned...I would not do it that way. AND...you are aware that the nose does pitch downwards...it is made that way...and it starts "pitching" down right in front of the front wheel openings.
The "given" dimension is when the inner skirt is bonded in place...and the hood hinge is installed and then the hood installed. Even with the front clip NOT bonded in place...the hood should clear and work without hitting because you have got the clip and the skirts CORRECT and the hinge is just what it is...the mechanism to pivot the hood. So shimming the radiator support is doing nothing...like I wrote to change the fact that the hood is hitting the support.
Also...the steel reinforcement plates that get riveted to the inner skirts so you have something for the bolts that hold the radiator support and hood hinges...are they being used???
DO NOT be surprised that when you fo an begin installing the headlight buckets...that some major filling or grinding may need to take place so the gaps around the headlight buckets are correct. I can spend days on getting the headlight buckets installed and the feature line(s) all perfect...and the gaps between the buckets being level and NOTHING that will rub when they are rotated. I will carefully clean-up and fill in the areas at the back edge of the headlight openings so all of the adhesive they used is cleaned up and filled in so I have NO SURPRISES ( which I have had in the past) and REGRET not spending the time around the headlight buckets.
When you have the hood and such corrected....and you have NOT yet bonded the clip on ...but it is secured by clamps. You might want to make sure that you measure out the front clip and I actually spend the time in getting the bumpers installed. I KNOW...I KNOW..."I can do them later." you might say. WELL...go ahead and then only to find out that you could have corrected an issue with the brackets and such in some minor adjustments in the front clip that can not be seen...but now you have major cutting and modifications to brackets because you did not check them first.
Also check to make sure that the windshield trim fits correctly if it is a complete front clip. A lot of time in this area also getting the gap of adhesive to work for you.
Lastly...and I know you might not think it is much...but you will also want to verify your rocker panel. If the fender is down a bit more than needed (1/16")...you will scrape paint off your fender when you go and install the rocker panel due to the method of having to go down over the bolted down retainer.
Not knowing if you care to due it but take it from me...it is worth it to do so. And knowing that you are not worrying about being factory perfect. I would HIGHLY ADVISE install in upper fender/top hood surround shield in the front clip while you can still flip it over and work on it. These shields (l & r) will STOP any chance of a rock getting caught in the tire and slinging up can creating a "star-burst" crack in your new front clip above the tire/wheel area. ALL front clips and or top hood surrounds get them when I do them...and they are installed on the Corvettes that I restore/paint also...because ...trust me...fixing a star-burst crack that COULD HAVE been prevented...is more time and aggravation than you can IMAGINE!!!!! If you have the old clip...the section can be cut out and installed...if not...I make mine right off the area above the tire with fiberglass and resin....or you can use whatever you find if you feel it is worth it. And if you don't think it is worth it...Think about this. I just went for a drive in the Corvette and when driving I heard a big "thud"...and when I got home I was walking by the drivers side front area and right above the tire area is a big star-burst crack...NOW...guess how long it is going to take to fix it correctly.....and like I wrote...the time in installing these shields is NOTHING to fixing that star-burst crack....especially on fresh paint work that is under 2 years of drying time.
DUB
The front clip is complete the cowl piece is not cut. If I cut it would I get a better fit? I am using press moulded inner fender wells, but they are not attached yet & I did not have them on while I was test fitting. I'm quessing they will support the front more then the support rods in front & will rise the the front hood area. The steel reinforcement plates I have but have not riveted them to the fender wells yet. Should I bond the inner fender wells to the front end & have them on while I am test fitting? I see what you mean with the headlight buckets I was test fitting them today & they will need some work. I am going to test fit the bumpers & windshield trim & I will take your advise & install the shield in the fenders. Thanks for all your advise.
03-29-2014, 09:59 PM
#5
Cruising
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03-29-2014, 10:00 PM
#6
Cruising
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Front clip
Several questions that need to be answered:
Is the ACI front clip a complete front clip...meaning that the raised center section of the cowl panel is a part of the clip...or has it been cut where the center of the factory cowl would remain?
Are you using press-molded inner skirts??? Or are they hand-laid???
The reason for the first question is if you have NOT bonded in your inner skirts...and have the hood installed in the front clip PRIOR to attempting to install it...you are going to FIGHT it and IT will win. And if the front clip is a partial clip and not complete in the area of the cowl...it will be really hard to make sure that you got the hood set and the inner skirts bonded in place correctly...and still giving you some adjustment in the hinges....due to the size of the holes in the hood hinges for adjustment. You so have some adjustment in the hood hinges...so take that into account when you are setting it up. when I am setting up the hood and skirts...if ANYTHING...I want the front clip to be a tad higher than the hood...that way I can slide a shin under the hinge and get the hood up. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES...do you want to bond the inner skirts in and the hood is HIGHER than the front clip area...BY THE HOOD HINGE.
In some occasions...when I have got the front clip all set-up ad bonded in place...and the hood is PERFECT at the hinge points (flush)..and the area at the front of the hood is UP a little bit. i have installed a rod that will raise the center of the front clip to get the hood to be flush all the way across the front edge of the hood and front clip area by the headlights.
Shimming the front mount area for the radiator support will not change anything other than the clearance above the air cleaner and how the rear line of the fender will match up to your door edge. This is why it is (IN MY OPINION...and how I do it) is get the inner skirts bonded in place and make sure the hood is correct...
You can not have loose skirts...that are bolted to a radiator support...and then expect the front clip to want to "act" right. C3's can have loose skirts...that can be bonded in place later...but not a C2...or at least I have found that my way of doing it makes me not fight it. the inner skirts are a BEAR to get right if they are hand-laid and NOT press-molded factory ones.
What do you mean by the "nose is 1 inch low"? Where is it low...and if your skirts are not bonded in place and you are relying on the rods to hold things...you are mistaken...like I have mentioned...I would not do it that way. AND...you are aware that the nose does pitch downwards...it is made that way...and it starts "pitching" down right in front of the front wheel openings.
The "given" dimension is when the inner skirt is bonded in place...and the hood hinge is installed and then the hood installed. Even with the front clip NOT bonded in place...the hood should clear and work without hitting because you have got the clip and the skirts CORRECT and the hinge is just what it is...the mechanism to pivot the hood. So shimming the radiator support is doing nothing...like I wrote to change the fact that the hood is hitting the support.
Also...the steel reinforcement plates that get riveted to the inner skirts so you have something for the bolts that hold the radiator support and hood hinges...are they being used???
DO NOT be surprised that when you fo an begin installing the headlight buckets...that some major filling or grinding may need to take place so the gaps around the headlight buckets are correct. I can spend days on getting the headlight buckets installed and the feature line(s) all perfect...and the gaps between the buckets being level and NOTHING that will rub when they are rotated. I will carefully clean-up and fill in the areas at the back edge of the headlight openings so all of the adhesive they used is cleaned up and filled in so I have NO SURPRISES ( which I have had in the past) and REGRET not spending the time around the headlight buckets.
When you have the hood and such corrected....and you have NOT yet bonded the clip on ...but it is secured by clamps. You might want to make sure that you measure out the front clip and I actually spend the time in getting the bumpers installed. I KNOW...I KNOW..."I can do them later." you might say. WELL...go ahead and then only to find out that you could have corrected an issue with the brackets and such in some minor adjustments in the front clip that can not be seen...but now you have major cutting and modifications to brackets because you did not check them first.
Also check to make sure that the windshield trim fits correctly if it is a complete front clip. A lot of time in this area also getting the gap of adhesive to work for you.
Lastly...and I know you might not think it is much...but you will also want to verify your rocker panel. If the fender is down a bit more than needed (1/16")...you will scrape paint off your fender when you go and install the rocker panel due to the method of having to go down over the bolted down retainer.
Not knowing if you care to due it but take it from me...it is worth it to do so. And knowing that you are not worrying about being factory perfect. I would HIGHLY ADVISE install in upper fender/top hood surround shield in the front clip while you can still flip it over and work on it. These shields (l & r) will STOP any chance of a rock getting caught in the tire and slinging up can creating a "star-burst" crack in your new front clip above the tire/wheel area. ALL front clips and or top hood surrounds get them when I do them...and they are installed on the Corvettes that I restore/paint also...because ...trust me...fixing a star-burst crack that COULD HAVE been prevented...is more time and aggravation than you can IMAGINE!!!!! If you have the old clip...the section can be cut out and installed...if not...I make mine right off the area above the tire with fiberglass and resin....or you can use whatever you find if you feel it is worth it. And if you don't think it is worth it...Think about this. I just went for a drive in the Corvette and when driving I heard a big "thud"...and when I got home I was walking by the drivers side front area and right above the tire area is a big star-burst crack...NOW...guess how long it is going to take to fix it correctly.....and like I wrote...the time in installing these shields is NOTHING to fixing that star-burst crack....especially on fresh paint work that is under 2 years of drying time.
DUB
Is the ACI front clip a complete front clip...meaning that the raised center section of the cowl panel is a part of the clip...or has it been cut where the center of the factory cowl would remain?
Are you using press-molded inner skirts??? Or are they hand-laid???
The reason for the first question is if you have NOT bonded in your inner skirts...and have the hood installed in the front clip PRIOR to attempting to install it...you are going to FIGHT it and IT will win. And if the front clip is a partial clip and not complete in the area of the cowl...it will be really hard to make sure that you got the hood set and the inner skirts bonded in place correctly...and still giving you some adjustment in the hinges....due to the size of the holes in the hood hinges for adjustment. You so have some adjustment in the hood hinges...so take that into account when you are setting it up. when I am setting up the hood and skirts...if ANYTHING...I want the front clip to be a tad higher than the hood...that way I can slide a shin under the hinge and get the hood up. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES...do you want to bond the inner skirts in and the hood is HIGHER than the front clip area...BY THE HOOD HINGE.
In some occasions...when I have got the front clip all set-up ad bonded in place...and the hood is PERFECT at the hinge points (flush)..and the area at the front of the hood is UP a little bit. i have installed a rod that will raise the center of the front clip to get the hood to be flush all the way across the front edge of the hood and front clip area by the headlights.
Shimming the front mount area for the radiator support will not change anything other than the clearance above the air cleaner and how the rear line of the fender will match up to your door edge. This is why it is (IN MY OPINION...and how I do it) is get the inner skirts bonded in place and make sure the hood is correct...
You can not have loose skirts...that are bolted to a radiator support...and then expect the front clip to want to "act" right. C3's can have loose skirts...that can be bonded in place later...but not a C2...or at least I have found that my way of doing it makes me not fight it. the inner skirts are a BEAR to get right if they are hand-laid and NOT press-molded factory ones.
What do you mean by the "nose is 1 inch low"? Where is it low...and if your skirts are not bonded in place and you are relying on the rods to hold things...you are mistaken...like I have mentioned...I would not do it that way. AND...you are aware that the nose does pitch downwards...it is made that way...and it starts "pitching" down right in front of the front wheel openings.
The "given" dimension is when the inner skirt is bonded in place...and the hood hinge is installed and then the hood installed. Even with the front clip NOT bonded in place...the hood should clear and work without hitting because you have got the clip and the skirts CORRECT and the hinge is just what it is...the mechanism to pivot the hood. So shimming the radiator support is doing nothing...like I wrote to change the fact that the hood is hitting the support.
Also...the steel reinforcement plates that get riveted to the inner skirts so you have something for the bolts that hold the radiator support and hood hinges...are they being used???
DO NOT be surprised that when you fo an begin installing the headlight buckets...that some major filling or grinding may need to take place so the gaps around the headlight buckets are correct. I can spend days on getting the headlight buckets installed and the feature line(s) all perfect...and the gaps between the buckets being level and NOTHING that will rub when they are rotated. I will carefully clean-up and fill in the areas at the back edge of the headlight openings so all of the adhesive they used is cleaned up and filled in so I have NO SURPRISES ( which I have had in the past) and REGRET not spending the time around the headlight buckets.
When you have the hood and such corrected....and you have NOT yet bonded the clip on ...but it is secured by clamps. You might want to make sure that you measure out the front clip and I actually spend the time in getting the bumpers installed. I KNOW...I KNOW..."I can do them later." you might say. WELL...go ahead and then only to find out that you could have corrected an issue with the brackets and such in some minor adjustments in the front clip that can not be seen...but now you have major cutting and modifications to brackets because you did not check them first.
Also check to make sure that the windshield trim fits correctly if it is a complete front clip. A lot of time in this area also getting the gap of adhesive to work for you.
Lastly...and I know you might not think it is much...but you will also want to verify your rocker panel. If the fender is down a bit more than needed (1/16")...you will scrape paint off your fender when you go and install the rocker panel due to the method of having to go down over the bolted down retainer.
Not knowing if you care to due it but take it from me...it is worth it to do so. And knowing that you are not worrying about being factory perfect. I would HIGHLY ADVISE install in upper fender/top hood surround shield in the front clip while you can still flip it over and work on it. These shields (l & r) will STOP any chance of a rock getting caught in the tire and slinging up can creating a "star-burst" crack in your new front clip above the tire/wheel area. ALL front clips and or top hood surrounds get them when I do them...and they are installed on the Corvettes that I restore/paint also...because ...trust me...fixing a star-burst crack that COULD HAVE been prevented...is more time and aggravation than you can IMAGINE!!!!! If you have the old clip...the section can be cut out and installed...if not...I make mine right off the area above the tire with fiberglass and resin....or you can use whatever you find if you feel it is worth it. And if you don't think it is worth it...Think about this. I just went for a drive in the Corvette and when driving I heard a big "thud"...and when I got home I was walking by the drivers side front area and right above the tire area is a big star-burst crack...NOW...guess how long it is going to take to fix it correctly.....and like I wrote...the time in installing these shields is NOTHING to fixing that star-burst crack....especially on fresh paint work that is under 2 years of drying time.
DUB
The front clip is complete the cowl piece is not cut. If I cut it would I get a better fit? I am using press moulded inner fender wells, but they are not attached yet & I did not have them on while I was test fitting. I'm quessing they will support the front more then the support rods in front & will rise the the front hood area. The steel reinforcement plates I have but have not riveted them to the fender wells yet. Should I bond the inner fender wells to the front end & have them on while I am test fitting? I see what you mean with the headlight buckets I was test fitting them today & they will need some work. I am going to test fit the bumpers & windshield trim & I will take your advise & install the shield in the fenders. Thanks for all your advise.
03-30-2014, 06:41 PM
#7
Race Director
I WOULD NOT CUT the cowl area on the front clip at all costs.
This is the problem with a one-piece clip versus building the front end from pieces...one at a time. The "clip" was molded off of a body...and as you know ( or maybe not know) that NO TWO Corvettes are exactly the same. SO..when you are fitting the clip and you are getting it set at the cowl and doors....you may find that the cowl/plenun areas are wide in regards to the clip...because the clip will not set down and allow the panel to align up correctly. when I run into this I have two methods of repair. One of them is to carefully grind the areas on the clip ( after I had marked them with a pencil from the backside) and test fit again. I also ..depending on how much was originally applied from the factory...grinds off the adhesive they use dot bond the panels onto the cowl/plenum areas. This thickness is a gauge for me and I often times will leave small spots on as a gauge so when the panel is clamped...I do not squeeze all the new adhesive out and leave nothing behind. If this adhesive has been ground all off...NO WORRIES...gauges can be made if needed where the clamps are attached.
The second method is to cut back the flange at the cowl/plenun and pull them inwards and fiberglass them back in place so the clip will fall into place and still leave me enough room for adhesive without being excessive.
When you have your clip in place...you better run your hand down the sides and along the top to verify that the clip is NOT under tension and actually creating raised bumps in the clip where the flanges are located under it.
I am glad that you are using press-molded inner skirts. I bond the in place and make sure that I have the inside of the clip sanded well so when I go and get them to fit as far forward as possible...I are not fighting against the rough texture of the clip when it was made. There is a FINE LINE of how much to grind...but do not worry...if you screw up...you can re-laminate and keep on "gettin'-it".
Also...with this being complete front clip...you will be able to get the hood fit...but be aware that some fine adjustments or modification may need to be employed like I wrote in my previous post.
Also...do not do anything at the headlight openings when the clip is off the car...it is a waste of time at this point...wait til you have it on and completed.
Hopefully you have given some thought to having the shields made and installed to protect the front clip area form rocks, etc.
YES...you have to have the inner skirts bonded in place and in doing so...you can install the hood and hinges and get that area correct. make sure you consider the adjustment value of your hinges when doing so.
Also...if you plan on removing the tires/wheels so the front clip can be installed easier...you better make sure that you have your supports UNDER the lower A-arms and try to achieve correct height in doing so. I actually use jack stands under the wide section of the brake rotor after making sure that if the rivets were drilled out...I re-install the nuts to hold the rotor onto the hub correctly and the install a steel plate to prevent the jack stand(s) from possibly sliding out...which has never happened without the plate...I just am super safe...that's all. This way...you are supporting from the suspension and NOT the FRAME ANYWHERE!!!!. Then I will get on the end of the frame and bounce on it a few times to make sure it is settled...AND ...keep in mind my floor in my shop is smooth so the jack stand can slide if needed...and not like rough asphalt....where they will dig in and not move.
Also...when the inner skirts are bonded in...the area of the clip that goes up to the doors will take a bit of effort to pull back so it can go onto the cowl/plenum areas where your adhesive will go...so do not be too forceful with it when doing so.
DUB
This is the problem with a one-piece clip versus building the front end from pieces...one at a time. The "clip" was molded off of a body...and as you know ( or maybe not know) that NO TWO Corvettes are exactly the same. SO..when you are fitting the clip and you are getting it set at the cowl and doors....you may find that the cowl/plenun areas are wide in regards to the clip...because the clip will not set down and allow the panel to align up correctly. when I run into this I have two methods of repair. One of them is to carefully grind the areas on the clip ( after I had marked them with a pencil from the backside) and test fit again. I also ..depending on how much was originally applied from the factory...grinds off the adhesive they use dot bond the panels onto the cowl/plenum areas. This thickness is a gauge for me and I often times will leave small spots on as a gauge so when the panel is clamped...I do not squeeze all the new adhesive out and leave nothing behind. If this adhesive has been ground all off...NO WORRIES...gauges can be made if needed where the clamps are attached.
The second method is to cut back the flange at the cowl/plenun and pull them inwards and fiberglass them back in place so the clip will fall into place and still leave me enough room for adhesive without being excessive.
When you have your clip in place...you better run your hand down the sides and along the top to verify that the clip is NOT under tension and actually creating raised bumps in the clip where the flanges are located under it.
I am glad that you are using press-molded inner skirts. I bond the in place and make sure that I have the inside of the clip sanded well so when I go and get them to fit as far forward as possible...I are not fighting against the rough texture of the clip when it was made. There is a FINE LINE of how much to grind...but do not worry...if you screw up...you can re-laminate and keep on "gettin'-it".
Also...with this being complete front clip...you will be able to get the hood fit...but be aware that some fine adjustments or modification may need to be employed like I wrote in my previous post.
Also...do not do anything at the headlight openings when the clip is off the car...it is a waste of time at this point...wait til you have it on and completed.
Hopefully you have given some thought to having the shields made and installed to protect the front clip area form rocks, etc.
YES...you have to have the inner skirts bonded in place and in doing so...you can install the hood and hinges and get that area correct. make sure you consider the adjustment value of your hinges when doing so.
Also...if you plan on removing the tires/wheels so the front clip can be installed easier...you better make sure that you have your supports UNDER the lower A-arms and try to achieve correct height in doing so. I actually use jack stands under the wide section of the brake rotor after making sure that if the rivets were drilled out...I re-install the nuts to hold the rotor onto the hub correctly and the install a steel plate to prevent the jack stand(s) from possibly sliding out...which has never happened without the plate...I just am super safe...that's all. This way...you are supporting from the suspension and NOT the FRAME ANYWHERE!!!!. Then I will get on the end of the frame and bounce on it a few times to make sure it is settled...AND ...keep in mind my floor in my shop is smooth so the jack stand can slide if needed...and not like rough asphalt....where they will dig in and not move.
Also...when the inner skirts are bonded in...the area of the clip that goes up to the doors will take a bit of effort to pull back so it can go onto the cowl/plenum areas where your adhesive will go...so do not be too forceful with it when doing so.
DUB