Jig A Low

Hey guys,

just when I thought I was done with the paint on my car, I find that I'm going to have to repaint my freshly painted '81.

this is due to a couple problems I created while re-assembling the car after the paint was done.

the car was painted about 6 months ago, a nice base/clear orange metallic. after repairing the damage I caused I tried every way I could to "blend" the paint and just can't make the metallic look the same so I decided it would be better to just repaint the whole car. the clear was wetsanded and polished but never waxed.

my plan is to scuff the clear and reshoot it with the same color/clear.

what grit paper should I use to get the proper bond surface for the new paint ??

any thing else I should look out for while doing this ?

DUB

Not knowing what you used...it would be wise for you to CALL the paint manufacturers tech line and ask them. Usually 500 to 800 grit wet will work...but some clears are different and when they cure they get really hard and sometimes do not like to get sanded and get the shine to dull out.

I just mentioned this to a forum member on the phone the other day.

Painting a car is one thing...repairing AFTER it has been freshly painted it is something totally different.

Not knowing what you did or used:
Staying within ONE manufactures system is usually best...so the products will link up with each other as designed. You can move to another companies product and use it and it will paint fine...but you may find that when a repair is being made..solvents can react with the layers and cause for lifting of paint/primer and clear.

Also...even though you use a paint manufacturers products from start to finish...DOES NOT guarantee that these products will NOT react in some way the the SAME products previously applied 6 months ago....which in paint curing time...is still fresh....and when you sand ti...you will be able to smell it....usually.

So my warning to you is to make sure that ALL of your clear is prepped and ALL SHINE removed so when you paint on it...it will adhere. Paint DOES NOT stick to shiny clear for very long.

AND...that if you get a lot of "sand-thru's"...these areas can cause a problem due to the solvent in your basecoat can now get in between the clear and the paint...or the paint and the primer/sealer and cause a lifting issue if you get it to "wet" or have a solvent that takes a long time to "flash-off" and thus has more penetrating value and can go deeper into your layers. Using a sealer will work in most cases to stop this...but often times it also has a solvent that can still cause for a reaction...which often times may have to be sanded and then re-applied...depending on how bad the reaction ( if any) occurred.

DUB

Jig A Low

thanks DUB

I made a couple of "bo-bo's" while re-assembling the car, managed to drill a 1/8'th in hole through the door, cracked the joint where I blended the fiberglass nose to the body and found one "blister" under the paint.

I've got all those fixed but can't match the metallic layout to save me. I'll be using the same paint and clear as the first time. I'm using products from Eastwood, low VOC base and high solids clear, using medium activators due to the little be lower temps here now.

I've already started scuffing the car with 400 dry, do you think that it too coarse? it feels like glass to the touch.

DUB

400 DRY is fine...but I feel that if you did 400WET...that would be another scenario...entirely.

Once again...In my paint system it would be fine...I do not know about the paint system you are using....it is best to verify through them.

DUB

CF6873

400 dry on a DA sander will leave a much finer scratch than hand sanding wet or dry. Some colors especially silvers and high metallics will show the scratches as the metallic flakes stand up in a sand scratch. If you have a lot of metallic in your color I would sand with 600 or finer.

What is it that is going wrong with the spot in? It seems like a whole lot more work to paint the whole car versus just repairing the damaged areas.

If you can see the blend you may need a slower reducer so the paint edge doesn't get too dry and show a halo.
Some people think on a spot in that you just dust in the area. That usually does not work as the metallic will lay differently than when you did the full paint.
Good Luck

Craig

Jig A Low

well, just to be clear, I'm not a professional painter by any stretch so I'd like to get that out there.

I found that when I attempted to "spot in" the repair areas that the color looks more copper than orange, this the exact same paint that I used to paint the car originally (same can---had left over). I mixed it exactly the same and shot it with the same gun/settings as original but still can't get the paint to match, I even tried to fade it in to the rest of the area but all it did was change the color of the whole panel. the only thing I can come up with is the metallic is laying out differently than the original paint job.

I know it's alot more work but I want to be able to look at it an be happy, at this point I'm happy to do the extra work to make it look right.

DUB

I know you may know how to run a D/A on fresh clear...but most of us know that you can really screw things up when using a power tool in a scenario like this. I am very good with a D/A sander....but I know I would not even think about touching it if I had to do a re-paint/touch-up. I am not a production shop...I am more quality minded...not writing that you are not QUALITY minded at all....because I have seen what a D/A can do very quickly.

Jig-a-low...

I have one question. Knowing that you are shooting metallic/pearl color...and TRUST ME...this color is a ROYAL PAIN to get perfect if doing a touch up. (even with the SAME PAINT).

Question: When you were shooting it originally...and were in the booth and filled your gun cup...which I am sure is a gravity feed style gun. Did you stir the color VERY, VERY, VERY WELL before you filled the gun cup the first time you went to shoot it???? If you replied YES...that is GREAT!!!

NOW...when you got done with that FIRST coat...and you were going to give it time to flash off....Did you pour the paint back into you mixing bucket...or did you leave the color in the gun for 10-20 minutes for the paint to flash ( if not longer)???

I argue with people on this so many times ...but it is a fact and common sense will dictate that what I am about to write is correct...because it was proved in a class I took on color matching..especially metallics and pearl colors.

When you have your mixed/thinned pain in a bucket ...and have it in the booth....ready to spray. You stir the heck out of it and strain it in your gun and shoot it.....your gun runs dry...you stir the mix VERY WELL AGAIN...and then strain more to finish the first coat. Then...flash time allows the paint int eh bucket to settle...ESPECIALLY the metallics and pearls at the bottom of the bucket. SO...if you go and twirl the paint stick one or twice...a majority of the metallics and pears will stay on the bottom ...WHICH CHANGES the color due to a lack of them. AND TRUST ME...IT MAKES DIFFERENCE.

SO if your scenario was you mixed up all of the paint in a huge bucket and kept filling up your gun...without seriously stirring the color at EACH fill up...then the pearls and metallics settled...and when you poured that left-over paint into a can to save it...now there is a high concentration of these metallics and pearls which is causing a brighter color.

And the exact same thing holds true if you used up all your mixed paint...and then went to mix up more from the can that has NOT been thinned...and you did not stir the living heck out of it. The metallics and pearls settled on the bottom there also so your final coat is not going to be able to be EASILY repaired due to each time paint was being poured out of a container where the paint was not stirred very well...the color was changing each and every time...which in the industry is what I deal with ALL the time in the form of VARIANT.

I have color decks that have spray outs of all of the variants that meet the criteria of being able to be sprayed...which requires 3 cases makes it to a spray out color that I can actually look at and compare to the car I am working on....but I can call in on a paint formula and have 20 variants that have only had 2 cases or even one case which required the color lab to custom formulate a paint formula....and these are not on really old cars....quite new cars actually.

If for some odd reason...when you touched up the color...and in the center of your area that you painted is correct...but you have a shiny outer edge ...that you can actually see. I know in my paint system I have a product that I can add to the paint that will take that ghost edge out and keep the color all the same through-out. Often times is it also possible needing a "wet-bed" of another product that gives the paint something to adhere to and not get dry BEFORE you shoot the paint...which is also possibly causing this lighter ring around your touch-up. If the color is lighter all the way from top to bottom and side to side..then it is in your color. There are tricks to adjusting your equipment and mixing ratios and reducer/thinner choice, air pressure, flash time, travel speed, volume control that can actually change the color.

I can write out the chart on how to lighten or darken a metallic color if you want me to...just let me know.

DUB

Jig A Low

DUB, thanks for the reply. my "system" for metallics may be different from everyone elses. as the paint I'm using uses a catalyst to harden I can't pour any leftover back in the can, so, I only mix what I think it will take to paint what I need to. first I shake the Heck out of the can of paint, then I stir it to death right before I mix it. then I try to shake the gun frequently as I'm spraying.

I'm spraying with a Sata 4000 with the deKups system.

I do the shake/stir method before EVERY mix of paint/catalyst, I don't see anyway that the paint can be being thined out because of this technique.

I wouldn't worry about typing anything out at this point, unless you think others will benifet from it.

DUB

You have the right technique....that is for sure.

Like I wrote...it can be "one of those" colors that like to have a 'funny edge" when sprayed....much like a pastel beige will darken on the edges when a spot in repair is being done.

I hope you get it like you want it....and I am sure you WILL.

DUB

John S 1961

You Could re clear and it will look less crappy.

Beer goggles help as well.

firstgenaddict

Dusting in metallics will make them appear brighter or MORE METALLIC. because of the way the metallic lays. when "dry" sprayed.

In order to blow in something such as what you are attempting you have to mask it with a soft edge and spray with the same pattern and volume as the original base coat.
use a hard mask well out side the area you are painting... then use a mask situated about 1/2" to 1" off the surface as the "soft" mask which will allow an edge which is softer YET allow FULL TRIGGER PULLS for volume so you can lay down a WET COAT which will have a much better chance of matching what is already there.


IT's worth a try before shooting the whole car again.