switzerhenry

Ok I have painted many show cars over the years Corvettes and Many others, I am even a Dupont highly recomended Shop. But as far as mine goes I am having a problem I have never seen before.. I will bring you through the steps I took on this vehicle and maybe someone out there has had this problem and fixed and can tell me how to fix it..
First I totally sanded down the car to the gell coat.. Next I applied 4 coats of Sherwin williams P30. I let it sit for 2 days hand blocked it with 600 to complete perfection.. I then applied 4 coats of jet black sherwin basecoat and then 3 coats of sherwin clear.. This isn't the cheap stuff its the top of the line products.. Now I color sanded and buffed to a absolutely beautiful glassey shine.. I was very proud of that finish.. After the very first day I took my car out I pulled it into the garage to wipe it down with mist n shine when I noticed it looked like I had a TON of little Tiny Tiny fish eyes in the finish. (Only on the top panels..) The perfectionist i am I 800 grit the whole car down again and painted it again and buffed and shure as **** same result.. So now its war!!! I did it AGAIN!!!!!!! i just got it out today.. Took it for a ride to show it off, Guess What!!!!! Its there agian... So I spent the later part of the day wetsanding them out again and buffing them out again and they were completely GOne.. Put it out in the sun Guess what?? Its like the plague you can't get rid of it.. Again it is only in the top panels.. Anyone have any ideas??? Please Email me at switzerhenry@yahoo.com or reply to this thread... I wanna keep my vette but I can't have this problem.. I really am a perfectionist and this has almost got me beat!!!

Sully1882

how did you strip it originally? What year is the car? Is it an early car with Fiberglass or a later car with SMC material panels... point I am getting at is that from what I understood there is a difference with early cars NOT having a gel coat ( 68-72 ) . It does sound like there is something polluting under the layer and stopping the adhesion of the new product. It may have nothing to do with Fiberglass/SMC argument but it is worth looking at, otherwise there is something coming through...

hope my pure amateur paint advice can at least give you something else to look into!

Sully

switzerhenry

Its a 1979 and i striupped it with 150 gri sand paper as to not ruin the gel coat

1snake

"Only on the top panels". Could it simply be "solvent pop"? Sure sounds like it to me.

switzerhenry

Its definately not solvent pop

DUB

Question:

IF... right now...without you sanding and buff/polishing the finish again. If you applied a hand glaze....and allowed it to dry---so to speak----would the hand glaze fill in these "fisheyes" as you call them????

I have been through this issue in the past...many moons ago....and I have to agree with "1snake". Because if the polish stays in these spots...and will not come out...then it was due to "micro" solvent pops that did not come to the suface...but when you sanded the finish...it exposed the "pops" and thus left the open bubble of a solvent pop....as you probably know. BUT that would usually show itself at the time of buffing/polishing. AND if your finish was SLICK as glass....but now has these spots in them...I am at a total loss.

I am not saying that was it is...and I am not stating that YOU do not know what you are seeing/talking about...because it seems that you do. I am on your side to try to figure out what this is. It makes no sense...you get the finish to perfection...and when the sun hits it..or what-have-you...these spots show up. I feel you PAIN and I would be TOTALLY TICKED OFF at this time.

I think your next step may be getting in contact with a SW rep and see if they know what is going on. You may have used a bad lot of hardener/reducer and it now reacts to the sun. It is TRUELY a mystery.

Next question:
Is the top surface of your headlight doors/fuel dor having the same problem as the top surface of the body?? The reason for this is that if the headlight doors/fuel door are NOT doing this...then it may have to do with an issue of the primer that was used...and possible issues with either out-gassing or proper sealing capabilities of the primer used is not up to par for SMC...but is fine for potmetal/cast alumunim. I am thinking off the "cuff" here...because I am not knowledgeable of the primer you used. I use another type of primer...but it still should be doing it all over the car..,..due to the sun is hitting on the car at angles most of the time...and not beating directly down on it.

REALLY----I am HATING IT for you right now!!!!

"DUB"

wombvette

I have had the same type problem with Sherwin Williams, Martin Senior products before. The chemical reaction of the hardener gasses to the surface leaving very fine, micro bubbles.

switzerhenry

These are more like tiny craters less than a 1/16" almost looks like if you were to take a spray bottle of water and mist it over wet clear.. Smaller than fish eyes. Not bubbles though..

DUB

Not ever using the product...but KNOWING that "wombvette" knows a thing or two. I would have to go off his comment.

Now it is a matter of SW taking care of a potential problem with their product...or if they start playing the "finger" pointing game.

I would hope that SW would send out a painter and allow him to shoot your product on a test panel and see if it gives the SAME end result.

"DUB"

markids77

Think for a minute here.... if it's not in the topcoats, it HAS to be coming from under the topcoats; right? I guess that means back to square zero.... strip it....gelcoat to positively seal the glass?????? Then repaint.

switzerhenry

I forgot to mention that I painted the hood with the exact same cans of product and it looks perfect.. It is all around the hood.. i was also talking to the head painter at my shop and he had mentioned the old finish before the one we put on it has somewhat similar issues but of course 30 years old so he didn't think anything of it.
Another idea that ran through my head was moisture coming from the floor underneath the car.. is that possible??? i could undercoat if I had to.. But I think I am going to take the advice of stripping and starting over.. Who is a good supplier of gell coat?? Never had to do gel coat before..

wombvette

79s do not have gel coat. They are SMC panels and shouldn't be gel-coated anyway. Epoxy is best on SMC. You need to determine just where that crater starts. If it is in the primer, I would suspect some contamination of the fiberglass. If that glass has something saturated into it that is causing the problem, you are in for a considerable amount of work. That surface should be ground down and re-glassed with a good finish material, preferably epoxy based. Then redo the painting, starting with an epoxy primer.

DUB

switzerhenry:
Vou never responded to my questions in post #6. I only ask yoou these questions to better help you....but if you do not answer...then I guess you have it all figured out on how you are going to fix this problem.

I am getting confused. First you say it is on ALL top surfaces...then you now say the hood is fine. You are making it hard to determine what is going on by not giving precise information. Leaving out information like this does change things....that is if the top surfaces of the rear clip area and t-tops are also effected....along with the headlight doors and fuel door or not.

If your only problem is the top hood surrouind panel...then I would have to agree with "wombvette" that you have some type of contamination to your SMC. And if it is bad enough...you really have a problem on your hands.. But without you answering the questions that people ask...you make it hard for anyone to help you....which is why you posted this problem in the first place.

Your reply would be greatly appreciated.
"DUB"

switzerhenry

I don't mean not to answer your questions.. I am trying to do this from my iPhone and sometimes it doesn't reply all the time due to poor cell service..
The hood is fine I posted that "I forgot to mention" I am running a very busy shop and can not get to this post all the time.. I Do appreciate the help and will try to get to my computer to answer your questions.. Your number 6 post slipped past me is all.. But yes it's all on the top except the hood.. I have today sprayed metal hood with the same product and no problems.. So I am pushing towards the problem with the smc. I considered using a perifin under coat to seal the inside and stripping the top.. But I've never gel coated before.. Any how to links??

switzerhenry

Again I am getting these replys out of order.. I just read the one about the epoxy so now now not to gelcoat.. Should I spray the undercoat on the inside panels??

markids77

Undercoat might just be the root of all your trouble. Most undercoats are asphalt/oil based which can leach through the panels on your car over time and cause just the symptoms you describe now. My 1977 was treated with a "Ziebart" or "Rusty Jones" type undercoat when new and I'm fighting fisheyes and other adhesion problems showing in the epoxy primers I have applied to this point. I hope I've sealed the glass adequately... last coat of primer shows only tiny fisheyes, need at least one more before the surface is good enough to paint on, and I intend to use a sealer under the topcoat as insurance. I did not know that gelcoat is not recommended for SMC... do defer to wombvette and DUB's recommendations... they both have scads more Vette experience than I do.

DUB

When "BOZO's" apply undercoating on the underside of Corvette body panels all "*****-nilly"...they begin a process of potential failure and problems down the line. Undercoating is a good product...but you have to know where to apply it. I also have dealt with undercoats that are better suited for a metal cars that were used on Corvette...and the amount of time spent to TRY to achieve some degree of adhesion would have been better spent replacing the panel entirely.

OH...and do not forget about using "tire shine" to much on your tires also. That is certian DEATH to a paint job in time...unless specific steps are taken to make sure that crap does not touch the underside of your panels when the tire is slinging it around. I have stories about that crap that would make you vomit. SERIOUSLY! Once again...a product that is better used ( if at all) on a metal car instead of fiberglass/SMC Corvette.

"DUB"

switzerhenry

Wow I just had an epiphany.. I use tire shine quite a bit!!! And the problem is mostly over the tires the worst... Dub I think you may be a genius!!!
If I soda blast the top panels and wash the underside do you think i may solve the problem if I epoxy the top of the car???

switzerhenry

Any ideas on sealing the underside of panels if not under coating?? How bout paintable rocker guard??

markids77

How about paint? Prep and shoot just like topside.