Looks Like Cadillac Has Spilled Some Beans Again About a Non Sedan Halo Car
03-28-2018, 03:50 PM
#21
Team Owner
What sports cars are u pointing to? BMW-I8?, Mercedes-A separately badged AMG GTR?, Audi-R8(rumored to be at final version). Lexus? Porsche has been Corvette's main rival.
What legacy could Cadillac possibly point to that would give it legitimacy in the realm of sports cars? The Allante? The XLR? Not to mention a dealer body with no experience servicing such a car.
Sorry. Been there done that. Bigger fish to fry for Cadillac.
What legacy could Cadillac possibly point to that would give it legitimacy in the realm of sports cars? The Allante? The XLR? Not to mention a dealer body with no experience servicing such a car.
Sorry. Been there done that. Bigger fish to fry for Cadillac.
03-28-2018, 03:54 PM
#22
Team Owner
You would think that if Cadillac is going to have a ME car that they would have them out running around too for testing? It makes sense to use both nameplates to spread the cost but the last time they did it, Cadillac XLR and Vette things did not go to well. My father had a red XLR and loved the car but did not sell in very large numbers, back then I think it sold for $76,000 which was much more than the vette too...
Under all that camo who knows what they are testing in real world conditions.
Last edited by JoesC5; 03-28-2018 at 03:55 PM.
03-28-2018, 04:18 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
03-28-2018, 05:31 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
GM/Cadillac/Corvette is not Ferrari, or Lamborghini. It's not even Porsche.
But it would like to be BMW/Mercedes/Audi one day.
BMW and Mercedes make performance versions of some crossovers based on sports-sedan platforms. Audi has only the SQ5, a 354hp 5.1s 0-60 mild performance crossover.
GM/Cadillac/Corvette doesn't build crossovers on sports-sedan platforms, so don't expect them to go wild to service the can't-drop-into-a-Corvette-anymore market. We might see a V-Sport XT4 or XT5, if those platforms are up to the task; otherwise I think you're waiting for a CT6-based crossover to get the full V treatment.
For what little it's worth, seating position on the previous-generation CTS-V is pretty upright and high for a sedan (or wagon)...
But it would like to be BMW/Mercedes/Audi one day.
BMW and Mercedes make performance versions of some crossovers based on sports-sedan platforms. Audi has only the SQ5, a 354hp 5.1s 0-60 mild performance crossover.
GM/Cadillac/Corvette doesn't build crossovers on sports-sedan platforms, so don't expect them to go wild to service the can't-drop-into-a-Corvette-anymore market. We might see a V-Sport XT4 or XT5, if those platforms are up to the task; otherwise I think you're waiting for a CT6-based crossover to get the full V treatment.
For what little it's worth, seating position on the previous-generation CTS-V is pretty upright and high for a sedan (or wagon)...
03-28-2018, 05:44 PM
#25
Team Owner
The concept of a Corvette 'brand" has been discussed for a number of years while other "sports car" brands have been rapidly EXPANDING their lineup. We have Ferrari talking about an SUV for Pete's sake. Lambo with the Urus. The Alfa Stelvio. I don't think this is lost on Mary Barra. You have an American icon, you need to leverage it. The Corvette has not worn the CHEVROLET tag for a number of generations. Besides GM needs some kind of "sport vehicle" us old guys can get into and out of in our SSI days.
PS- the Gold Bowtie identifies the Corvette as a Chevrolet just as it does other models in the Chevrolet product lineup.
I really doubt many of "us old guys" that are buying new Corvettes are "in our SSI days".
Do you even know what SSI stand for?
PS-The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled adults and children who have limited income and resources.
Last edited by JoesC5; 03-28-2018 at 05:53 PM.
03-28-2018, 06:11 PM
#26
Oh yeah... what do you call the Gold Bowtie that is displayed on every Corvette, and has been for many, many generations?
PS- the Gold Bowtie identifies the Corvette as a Chevrolet just as it does other models in the Chevrolet product lineup.
I really doubt many of "us old guys" that are buying new Corvettes are "in our SSI days".
Do you even know what SSI stand for?
PS-The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled adults and children who have limited income and resources.
PS- the Gold Bowtie identifies the Corvette as a Chevrolet just as it does other models in the Chevrolet product lineup.
I really doubt many of "us old guys" that are buying new Corvettes are "in our SSI days".
Do you even know what SSI stand for?
PS-The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program pays benefits to disabled adults and children who have limited income and resources.
03-28-2018, 06:29 PM
#28
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
A few thoughts. Cadillac and its announcement does not, to me, mean it's going to have an ME "sports car" or even a GT/Touring car, necessarily. It can have an Escala, which looks to me to be a 4-door sedan--very swoopy, but a sedan nonetheless.
I also go back and see that, while most on these forums really like their Cadillac performance cars, some of those same cars have "issues." Like the ATS, the older CTS-V, etc. Having "issues" doesn't mean they can't be solved in next year's model.
And then we go back to the long history of Cadillac sports cars, GT/Touring cars, etc. Unfortunately, there is no history to speak of. And that's another issue. It doesn't mean there can't be a beginning of a legend in, and for Cadillac starting today or tomorrow, but it will be difficult to persuade people based on 2-seater models in the past.
I'm waiting to see if they prove my thoughts wrong, and if they do, I'll be glad for them!
I also go back and see that, while most on these forums really like their Cadillac performance cars, some of those same cars have "issues." Like the ATS, the older CTS-V, etc. Having "issues" doesn't mean they can't be solved in next year's model.
And then we go back to the long history of Cadillac sports cars, GT/Touring cars, etc. Unfortunately, there is no history to speak of. And that's another issue. It doesn't mean there can't be a beginning of a legend in, and for Cadillac starting today or tomorrow, but it will be difficult to persuade people based on 2-seater models in the past.
I'm waiting to see if they prove my thoughts wrong, and if they do, I'll be glad for them!
03-28-2018, 07:01 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
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http://autoweek.com/article/luxury/c...n=awdailydrive
Can Cadillac make a dent in Europe?
Cadillac's coming crossover-heavy lineup also looks toward European sales
March 28, 2018
With a product onslaught set to begin with the debut of the XT4 compact crossover, Cadillac is analyzing its long-term plans and viability.
Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen said the brand is "actively working" on what it wants to accomplish through 2035.
"We are in fact busy reimagining Cadillac, what the brand will look like in 2035 -- in terms of the customer experience, in terms of the brand position, and candidly, the products and the technologies deployed," he said Tuesday during the 2018 NADA-J.D. Power Automotive Forum.
Part of those plans, he said, will include a renewed push to become a bigger player in Europe, which parent General Motors essentially abandoned last year with the sale of its European Opel business to PSA Group.
De Nysschen said Cadillac's attention will likely turn to Europe after 2025. The brand first needs to get its products right and operations in order in the U.S. and China.
"If we want to go to Europe, we better make sure we have the financial wherewithal and the products," he said, adding the strategy would include electric vehicles, not diesels. "It's going to be a tough battle and we better be ready to fight it."
Vehicles Cadillac doesn’t expect to add to its lineup anytime soon, according to de Nysschen, are another large halo sedan or an uberluxury vehicle with pricing comparable to Rolls-Royce, a segment in which it has tried to compete in the past.
"I do not think that the world needs yet another large, three-box conventional sedan," he said. "We are going to produce a halo vehicle for Cadillac. When it comes, it will stun the world."
Cadillac's global sales tallied 356,467 last year, a 16 percent increase over 2016 and just shy of the brand's global sales peak of 360,825 in 1978.
China, which overtook the U.S. as the brand's top market in 2017, led the way with a 51 percent increase in sales, to 175,489 vehicles, followed by a 10 percent increase in other international markets. In the U.S., volume dropped 8 percent to 156,440 last year.
De Nysschen previously laid out Cadillac's plans through 2021, which include shifting the brand's focus to crossovers.
Cadillac's lineup comprises the Escalade large SUV and four sedan nameplates but only one crossover, the midsize XT5. U.S. sales of the XT5 through the first two months of this year are just 70 behind those of the four sedans combined. By 2022, Cadillac is expected to have four crossovers and only three sedans, in addition to the next-generation Escalade.
De Nysschen reiterated those plans on Tuesday, noting that many of the cars "are approaching the end of their life cycle." He said the XT4 is the beginning of a product onslaught with a "new launch every few months" through 2021.
"The brand is preparing, our dealers are preparing, and the cars are coming," he said. "Ladies and gentlemen, I can assure you that things are about to get very interesting at Cadillac."
Can Cadillac make a dent in Europe?
Cadillac's coming crossover-heavy lineup also looks toward European sales
March 28, 2018
With a product onslaught set to begin with the debut of the XT4 compact crossover, Cadillac is analyzing its long-term plans and viability.
Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen said the brand is "actively working" on what it wants to accomplish through 2035.
"We are in fact busy reimagining Cadillac, what the brand will look like in 2035 -- in terms of the customer experience, in terms of the brand position, and candidly, the products and the technologies deployed," he said Tuesday during the 2018 NADA-J.D. Power Automotive Forum.
Part of those plans, he said, will include a renewed push to become a bigger player in Europe, which parent General Motors essentially abandoned last year with the sale of its European Opel business to PSA Group.
De Nysschen said Cadillac's attention will likely turn to Europe after 2025. The brand first needs to get its products right and operations in order in the U.S. and China.
"If we want to go to Europe, we better make sure we have the financial wherewithal and the products," he said, adding the strategy would include electric vehicles, not diesels. "It's going to be a tough battle and we better be ready to fight it."
Vehicles Cadillac doesn’t expect to add to its lineup anytime soon, according to de Nysschen, are another large halo sedan or an uberluxury vehicle with pricing comparable to Rolls-Royce, a segment in which it has tried to compete in the past.
"I do not think that the world needs yet another large, three-box conventional sedan," he said. "We are going to produce a halo vehicle for Cadillac. When it comes, it will stun the world."
Cadillac's global sales tallied 356,467 last year, a 16 percent increase over 2016 and just shy of the brand's global sales peak of 360,825 in 1978.
China, which overtook the U.S. as the brand's top market in 2017, led the way with a 51 percent increase in sales, to 175,489 vehicles, followed by a 10 percent increase in other international markets. In the U.S., volume dropped 8 percent to 156,440 last year.
De Nysschen previously laid out Cadillac's plans through 2021, which include shifting the brand's focus to crossovers.
Cadillac's lineup comprises the Escalade large SUV and four sedan nameplates but only one crossover, the midsize XT5. U.S. sales of the XT5 through the first two months of this year are just 70 behind those of the four sedans combined. By 2022, Cadillac is expected to have four crossovers and only three sedans, in addition to the next-generation Escalade.
De Nysschen reiterated those plans on Tuesday, noting that many of the cars "are approaching the end of their life cycle." He said the XT4 is the beginning of a product onslaught with a "new launch every few months" through 2021.
"The brand is preparing, our dealers are preparing, and the cars are coming," he said. "Ladies and gentlemen, I can assure you that things are about to get very interesting at Cadillac."
Last edited by NemesisC5; 03-28-2018 at 07:02 PM.
03-28-2018, 07:07 PM
#30
Team Owner
03-28-2018, 07:19 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
Change is coming Joe. Embrace it.
03-28-2018, 07:52 PM
#32
Team Owner
Every other Chevrolet sold has CHEVROLET as a nameplate on it. The Bowtie may be part of the overall crossed flags Corvette insignia, but nowhere on the car is CHEVROLET on there unlike every other car Chevrolet sells. You’re grasping at straws.
Change is coming Joe. Embrace it.
Change is coming Joe. Embrace it.
Show me pictures of all these new Chevrolets that have Chevrolet spelled out on the car, instead of the Bowtie.
Last edited by JoesC5; 03-28-2018 at 08:14 PM.
03-28-2018, 09:03 PM
#33
Race Director
GM has been playing you all, either with the car media, or by playing them too.
There is no mid engine Corvette. The midengine car is a cadillac. Its a marketimg exercise like the Ford GT, and it probably wont make money. They will talk about their racing program and how they are best in the world and other stuff like that.
The C8 will launch in 2021-2022ish and it will be front engine, rwd. It might have a downsized v8, possibly turbo. May even have some sort of electric assist, but it won't be anything too out of what the c7 is.
The main reason people think it' a corvette is they used some c7 hacked up panels on the mules. If you'e trying to hide what it is, you don't put exactly what it is on the mules, you put what it isn't.
There is no mid engine Corvette. The midengine car is a cadillac. Its a marketimg exercise like the Ford GT, and it probably wont make money. They will talk about their racing program and how they are best in the world and other stuff like that.
The C8 will launch in 2021-2022ish and it will be front engine, rwd. It might have a downsized v8, possibly turbo. May even have some sort of electric assist, but it won't be anything too out of what the c7 is.
The main reason people think it' a corvette is they used some c7 hacked up panels on the mules. If you'e trying to hide what it is, you don't put exactly what it is on the mules, you put what it isn't.
Last edited by FAUEE; 03-28-2018 at 09:04 PM.
03-28-2018, 09:10 PM
#34
Race Director
JDN today as head of Cadillac said no ther brand will share the 4.2 liter twin turbo v8.
JDN stated the 4.2 liter v8 twin turbo will be a Cadillac exclusive.
JDN stated the 4.2 liter v8 twin turbo will be a Cadillac exclusive.
03-28-2018, 09:23 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
03-28-2018, 09:25 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Come on GM! ;)
At least give us that 3,600lb ATS V8 4.2TT!
This is a Corvette site, and it takes something more than your status quo run of mill sled to excite us!
This is a Corvette site, and it takes something more than your status quo run of mill sled to excite us!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 03-28-2018 at 09:28 PM.
03-29-2018, 09:21 AM
#37
Melting Slicks
I believe it has more to do with Cadillac playing 'catch up' with the German auto manufacturers who do offer sports cars in their product mix.
If Cadillac wants to be in the same league as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, they have to convince the world that they are capable of playing in the big leagues. And that means sports cars.
Notice that as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche have upped their sedan and SUV offerings, they have not discarded their sports car to the dumpster. It's all part of the all important image.
For the past 50 years, Cadillac has been viewed as just a rebadged Chevrolet(rightfully so). They have to shed image in order to appeal to the people that are paying big bucks for their BMW's, Mercedes's, Audi's and Porsche's.
If Cadillac wants to be in the same league as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, they have to convince the world that they are capable of playing in the big leagues. And that means sports cars.
Notice that as BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche have upped their sedan and SUV offerings, they have not discarded their sports car to the dumpster. It's all part of the all important image.
For the past 50 years, Cadillac has been viewed as just a rebadged Chevrolet(rightfully so). They have to shed image in order to appeal to the people that are paying big bucks for their BMW's, Mercedes's, Audi's and Porsche's.
03-29-2018, 09:50 AM
#38
GM has been playing you all, either with the car media, or by playing them too.
There is no mid engine Corvette. The midengine car is a cadillac. Its a marketimg exercise like the Ford GT, and it probably wont make money. They will talk about their racing program and how they are best in the world and other stuff like that.
The C8 will launch in 2021-2022ish and it will be front engine, rwd. It might have a downsized v8, possibly turbo. May even have some sort of electric assist, but it won't be anything too out of what the c7 is.
The main reason people think it' a corvette is they used some c7 hacked up panels on the mules. If you'e trying to hide what it is, you don't put exactly what it is on the mules, you put what it isn't.
There is no mid engine Corvette. The midengine car is a cadillac. Its a marketimg exercise like the Ford GT, and it probably wont make money. They will talk about their racing program and how they are best in the world and other stuff like that.
The C8 will launch in 2021-2022ish and it will be front engine, rwd. It might have a downsized v8, possibly turbo. May even have some sort of electric assist, but it won't be anything too out of what the c7 is.
The main reason people think it' a corvette is they used some c7 hacked up panels on the mules. If you'e trying to hide what it is, you don't put exactly what it is on the mules, you put what it isn't.
03-29-2018, 12:20 PM
#39
the midengine might not be a corvette, but i'll be surprised if it's a cadillac.
zora maybe. that way the 4.2 turbo wouldn't be "headed for" corvette.
i'd like to see the base engine a 6.2 500+hp na.
zora maybe. that way the 4.2 turbo wouldn't be "headed for" corvette.
i'd like to see the base engine a 6.2 500+hp na.
Last edited by senah; 03-29-2018 at 12:21 PM.
03-29-2018, 12:57 PM
#40
Race Director
What does that even mean? Angular? That' the design language for Caddy too. You're reading a lot into something that may not even be for the car you think. There's nothing about them that even says they're for the mid engine car, they could be part of a mid cycle refresh for the c7.