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you are making excuses for corvette in your statement, viper was never produced for profit, it's also Back to Dodge now, not SRT.
What is the "We" thing? Do you work for Chevy ?, lots of those people on here , some are really easy to pick out.
Sorry corvette is not a true world class track car, the over heating problems are real.
I don't bother with forums like STI, those cars aren't even in the same league, but over here I do see the of its not a corvette it's a POS, even with cars much more superior.
I don't care for ring times, but who is still talking about ZR1 ring times? Viper took that away with its gen 4 ACR back in 2008
What excuses did I make for the Vette? If I gave any more praise to the Viper in my post I'd starting to sound like a blind Viper fanboy (which I'm not).
All I stated was this site has a lot less "fanboys" than the import forums I browse, by a long shot. If you don't browse those forums that's your choice, but it doesn't make my statement wrong.
Did I say the C7Z was a "world class track car"? Why do you think I gave so much praise to the ACR in my post?
I brought up the ZR1 Ring time to illustrate you can't impress the import guys no matter what. THAT's my definition of "fanboy". Nothing to do with the ACR vs ZR1, don't know why you brought it up.
You're reading way too much into my post and shoving words in my mouth. Either that, or you can't take the slightest positivity / defence towards the Vette. Has to be full-on trashing the Vette to keep you happy...
He obviously hasn't been in the C7Z section, I admidt I don't come here much anymore, there really is no use , the more I come the less I like corvettes, and although the. Rear of the C7 looks cheap and pitiful, it the owners who are making me really not like it.
The fan boys are rampant here
Originally Posted by Boba Fett
yea...I don't think so either, they even attack other C7Z owners who list a problem or dislike about the car, truly pathetic
I've been following this forum since 05 and joined in 11. I have made a few good friends from this board but do agree, it has come to an all time low with the fanboism.
We must be reading two different C7Z sections.
The one I'm reading everyone TRASHES its performance, starting from the very first release of the 128 trap speed, to the overheats, to the roll-on losses vs Hellcat/Viper/ZR1.
That why I said I've never seen a forum that's harder on its cars than our's. No Nytmere, I don't work for GM, but I use "we" and "our" to imply fellow Vette owners, standard convention on most forums.
Do I think the C7Z is perfect? Far from it.
Do I think the ACR is better from a purist's perspective? Absolutely. I gave my reasons in my first post.
Do I start trashing the Vette saying it's absolutely garbage and GM is an idiot? Absolutely not. I analyze all cars based on facts, not emotions.
The Vette has its pluses, and so does the Viper. Sales numbers dictate the general buyers' opinion.
Wanna see better ones? Get out more, and see the other forums...
Im not here to argue with you friend but I am a member of quite a few forums and while certainly theres worse out there, I certainly wouldn't put this one too far behind. Ive owned 3 Z06's and had a deposit on the new one but changed my mind for MY OWN reasons. Anyhow, after expressing some concerns/dislikes about the car (pre release), I was labeled troll/hater and all sorts of other nonsense....as ridiculous as it is, I too feel like Nytmere in that the new owners have made me dislike the car...
The one I'm reading everyone TRASHES its performance, starting from the very first release of the 128 trap speed, to the overheats, to the roll-on losses vs Hellcat/Viper/ZR1.
That why I said I've never seen a forum that's harder on its cars than our's. No Nytmere, I don't work for GM, but I use "we" and "our" to imply fellow Vette owners, standard convention on most forums.
Do I think the C7Z is perfect? Far from it.
Do I think the ACR is better from a purist's perspective? Absolutely. I gave my reasons in my first post.
Do I start trashing the Vette saying it's absolutely garbage and GM is an idiot? Absolutely not. I analyze all cars based on facts, not emotions.
The Vette has its pluses, and so does the Viper. Sales numbers dictate the general buyers' opinion.
No, the C7Z section is deplorable. I'm sorry, but it's terrible there. You voice any legitimate concerns and you get killed for it. You express a preference other than a C7, you get crucified (for having different tastes). They move out all of the comparisons where the Z doesn't win and trash them as staged and conspiracies fly. They keep all of the ones where the Z does win and praises them as gospel and don't question anything about them.
The C7Z section is horrible.
The C7 general section is completely fine IMO.
Originally Posted by Boba Fett
sales numbers to me mean absolutely 0.......and always will...but that's just me
I never understood the sales numbers argument. I'm not buying someone else's preference, I'm buying mine.
You'll have to remind me what you have now. And do you regret getting rid of it?
I have a Gen 5 viper on order, a 99 viper ACR, a srt jeep , a c class Benz , a custom turbo hyabusa, I'm not getting rid of anything , in the most current past I got rid of a 2010 ZR1, 2012, boss 302, 06 Z06, only car I miss out of those is the ZR1, I don't care for the C7 at all I liked it more when it 1st came out, IMO the C7 was made for the waxers who like to brag numbers, GM not knowing that there are still some people out there who actually track their cars, those people are the ones are overheating their cars.
Im not here to argue with you friend but I am a member of quite a few forums and while certainly theres worse out there, I certainly wouldn't put this one too far behind. Ive owned 3 Z06's and had a deposit on the new one but changed my mind for MY OWN reasons. Anyhow, after expressing some concerns/dislikes about the car (pre release), I was labeled troll/hater and all sorts of other nonsense....as ridiculous as it is, I too feel like Nytmere in that the new owners have made me dislike the car...
I'm not arguing either; again, I highly praised the ACR because as an engineer and car enthusiast I think they nailed the design.
But I also realize I'm the minority (I'm the kinda guy that may build a Ultima or Factory Five kit car), and businesses can't cater to me to survive.
What GM did is strictly business tactic - use minimal R&D budget ($250m), maximize part sharing, and generate the most revenue via sales numbers.
Out of the forums I've been one, I'd rate import ones the worst (Civic owners call a C6Z a pos Chevy that only goes straight...), followed by domestic diesel trucks forums (super brand loyal).
No, the C7Z section is deplorable. I'm sorry, but it's terrible there. You voice any legitimate concerns and you get killed for it. You express a preference other than a C7, you get crucified (for having different tastes). They move out all of the comparisons where the Z doesn't win and trash them as staged and conspiracies fly. They keep all of the ones where the Z does win and praises them as gospel and don't question anything about them.
The C7Z section is horrible.
The C7 general section is completely fine IMO.
I never understood the sales numbers argument. I'm not buying someone else's preference, I'm buying mine.
Fair enough, maybe I'm reading more of the negative / critic posts than positive reviews, which is why I develop a feeling the C7Z section "trashes" the C7Z. My personal participation there (as a non-owner) is limited to discussions of the overheating issue, excess drag causing low top end performance, and various track numbers. However, I always try to offer constructive analysis and suggestions than simply calling it a pos.
Sales numbers have ONE important meaning - survival. Businesses are not enthusiasts. If we want great cars like the Vette and Viper to survive, they need sales and profit. And that doesn't come from halo cars like the ACR (just ask Bugatti).
I have a Gen 5 viper on order, a 99 viper ACR, a srt jeep , a c class Benz , a custom turbo hyabusa, I'm not getting rid of anything , in the most current past I got rid of a 2010 ZR1, 2012, boss 302, 06 Z06, only car I miss out of those is the ZR1, I don't care for the C7 at all I liked it more when it 1st came out, IMO the C7 was made for the waxers who like to brag numbers, GM not knowing that there are still some people out there who actually track their cars, those people are the ones are overheating their cars.
good for you bro, don't if they bring you pleasure and you don't have too
Originally Posted by 05dsom
shhhhh...don't tell the wife
mums da word
Originally Posted by oicw
Sales numbers have ONE important meaning - survival. Businesses are not enthusiasts. If we want great cars like the Vette and Viper to survive, they need sales and profit. And that doesn't come from halo cars like the ACR (just ask Bugatti).
no argument here...
its just as crabbers pointed out, its a tactic used in arguing by the fanboys...
The one I'm reading everyone TRASHES its performance, starting from the very first release of the 128 trap speed, to the overheats, to the roll-on losses vs Hellcat/Viper/ZR1.
That why I said I've never seen a forum that's harder on its cars than our's. No Nytmere, I don't work for GM, but I use "we" and "our" to imply fellow Vette owners, standard convention on most forums.
Do I think the C7Z is perfect? Far from it.
Do I think the ACR is better from a purist's perspective? Absolutely. I gave my reasons in my first post.
Do I start trashing the Vette saying it's absolutely garbage and GM is an idiot? Absolutely not. I analyze all cars based on facts, not emotions.
The Vette has its pluses, and so does the Viper. Sales numbers dictate the general buyers' opinion.
You are talking to people who have owned multiple vettes, in my case 85, 98,2000, 2001Z, 2006 Z, and 2010 Zr1, as a matter of fact I can bet 99% of viper owners have had corvettes, same cannot be said the other way.
Are your facts based on articles, or actually owner experience?
The viper was never built for comfort until this new G5, it is superior in all ways to corvette, and the aftermarket is back, I think the vette has gone to garbage since the bailout, it has turned into a coorperate car, cutting cost everyway they can.
Unless GM does something with the C8, I won't be buying a corvette again.
The Ultimate track car is a joke, people thinking 250 plus engine temps are normal? Pure brainwashing, the C7Z owners who have problems get trashed by cars and coffee waxers.
When I had my Gen 4 ACR I drove the ZR1 quite a bit more than the ACR.
I did do a road trip in ACR one time from SW Florida to Charlotte NC, non stop except for food and fuel. I have to say I was very impressed with it no problems at all. All the crap about being hot, noisy etc was nonexistent. In the long haul I thought it was a touch more comfortable than the Z!
Now that I have the Gen 5 I seem to be driving it a lot more than the ZR1, not sure why.
Now with the new Gen 5 ACR I am giving some very serious consideration to letting the GTS go and do a 1 of 1 ACR when the extreme package is available.
That being said the ZR1 will be staying in the stable, no plans for a C7Z06, in my opinion, my ZR1 is an all round better fit for me than the new Z06. I have had a fair amount of time in the Z06 but not for me right now.
At this point, I would say if I had to make a choice between the ZR1 and any Gen 5, the Vette would be down the road.
Nice accurate realistic post coming from an actual Gen IV and Gen V Viper owner putting to rest the myths about how uncomfortable Vipers are to drive everyday or long distances ( as this is not the 1990s anymore).
I have put 6,000 miles on my Gen IV 2009 VOI Viper Coupe and the car is 100% comfortable to drive on the road long distances and is every bit as comfortable as the 2006 C6 Z06 that I traded in for her, and if it was not for winter she would be my daily driver for certain (man I wish I did not live in the Midwest).
Last edited by Mopar Jimmy; 05-29-2015 at 12:15 AM.
I have a Gen 5 viper on order, a 99 viper ACR, a srt jeep , a c class Benz , a custom turbo hyabusa, I'm not getting rid of anything , in the most current past I got rid of a 2010 ZR1, 2012, boss 302, 06 Z06, only car I miss out of those is the ZR1, I don't care for the C7 at all I liked it more when it 1st came out, IMO the C7 was made for the waxers who like to brag numbers, GM not knowing that there are still some people out there who actually track their cars, those people are the ones are overheating their cars.
I get that you miss the ZR1, but do you regret selling it?
You are talking to people who have owned multiple vettes, in my case 85, 98,2000, 2001Z, 2006 Z, and 2010 Zr1, as a matter of fact I can bet 99% of viper owners have had corvettes, same cannot be said the other way.
I still don't know what point you're trying to make - when did I make a Vette vs Viper comparison in my original post?
The only remote comparison I made was this statement: "It's unfortunate GM has aimed more for profitability and downright sales numbers, than catering to a true group of enthusiasts."
Are your facts based on articles, or actually owner experience?
What facts are you referring to? Do I need "owner experience" just to state the ACR is a "world class track car"?
Engineering knowledge goes long ways - it allows me to make educated analysis without touching or owning a product. Food for thought - MAJORITY of cars are designed by engineers who's never driven one.
One of my designs (in 2008) was the fuel cell stack in the upcoming 2016 Mercedes hydrogen fuel vehicles. I've never driven the car and never will.
The viper was never built for comfort until this new G5, it is superior in all ways to corvette, and the aftermarket is back, I think the vette has gone to garbage since the bailout, it has turned into a coorperate car, cutting cost everyway they can.
Unless GM does something with the C8, I won't be buying a corvette again.
The Ultimate track car is a joke, people thinking 250 plus engine temps are normal? Pure brainwashing, the C7Z owners who have problems get trashed by cars and coffee waxers.
The more I read your reply the more I feel you're replying to someone else. When have I ever said the Viper is not a superior track car? I've criticized the C7Z's high temps a lot, and offered various analysis on what I think the problem is.
Here's my original post (took out the part of forums):
Originally Posted by oicw
But back on topic - the ACR is downright badass. It's unfortunate GM has aimed more for profitability and downright sales numbers, than catering to a true group of enthusiasts. Then again though, can we blame them for doing what a business does?
SRT on the other hand, knows it can't compete in sales being a niche car, so they went: we're in it for the passion not money, so might as well forget about profit and create a true world class track car.
As an engineer myself my heart certainly goes out to SRT. If I were a businessman, my mind would go to GM for long term product profitability and sustainment...
I'm not arguing either; again, I highly praised the ACR because as an engineer and car enthusiast I think they nailed the design.
But I also realize I'm the minority (I'm the kinda guy that may build a Ultima or Factory Five kit car), and businesses can't cater to me to survive.
What GM did is strictly business tactic - use minimal R&D budget ($250m), maximize part sharing, and generate the most revenue via sales numbers.
Out of the forums I've been one, I'd rate import ones the worst (Civic owners call a C6Z a pos Chevy that only goes straight...), followed by domestic diesel trucks forums (super brand loyal).
Civic owners calling the C6Z are just stupid kids, who would drive their civics off the edge of a cliff to have any model corvette, can't compare the 2, one is a sports car and one is a good gas mileage car, the only thing similar is that both have 4 wheels.
05-28-2015, 09:51 AM
GOOD 1!!!
