Guibo

How is the GT4 more of a purpose-built track car than the C7?

Horrible 911 handling issues...just horrible.

oicw

Well, since the regular Cayman, especially in GTS trim, is at least equally as purpose-built as a C7, then, knowing the GT4 is more track focused than a regular Cayman, it implies that it's also more track focused than a C7.

Of course, within the C7 itself there're various levels of "track readiness": Stingray - Z51 - Z06 - Z06/Z07. It's the GT4 more track focused than a Z07? Hard to say. We know which one will be faster (even during over-temp), but that doesn't mean it's more "track focused".

Here in Canada, you can buy a race ready Nissan Micra with 106 hp, that's got no interior and a roll cage, and non-street legal. It'll get its *** kicked by even a C5, but, I'd consider it more "track focused".

rjwz28

Did you just fall off a truck? Of course the GT4 is more purpose-built for the track than a base C7, Z51, and maybe even the base Z06. As oicw pointed out, it may not be quicker around the track than a Z06/Z07, but that doesn't make it less track focused.

How does the handling of rear-engine Porsches have anything to do with the mid-engine GT4?

Guibo

I was assuming Dave was talking about the Z06, which would make sense considering not only the prices of the cars, but also this statement in the opening post:
As for the handling of the rear-engine Porsches, you'd have to ask Dave about that. I didn't bring it up.

I still haven't heard anything that makes the GT4 more of a track focused car than the C7Z and on par with the ACR. I agree with oicw's statement, and am not bringing in speed into the equation. I'm not sure the GT4 is even as fast as a Z51, not that that matters to the issue.

Robert L Brown

Gtr is more track focused than any car mentioned, enough said, have owned and driven all but the gt4,

Dave68

My 911 comment was brought up when the C7 Z06 overheating issues were mentioned. It took Porsche many years to get rid of its squirrely behavior on the track. The C6 Z06 had handling issues but GM fixed them, quickly. A recent alignment adjustment made the C7 Z06 faster than the Nissan GTR on a track that Motor Trend rented for use by Randy Pobst. He was amazed at how much more secure the Z felt.
Most likely, the overheating issue will soon be a thing of the past.

rjwz28

Gotcha

I would have to say that the GT4 is more akin to the TA 2.0 than the ACR... less weight and more aero, but not an insane amount of it

It does have a lot of components from the GT3

As for the comparison to the Z06: I would say it's more track-focused than the C7 Z06 based purely on the fact that they purposed it that way... the Z06 is now built as a one-size-fits-all super Corvette

Guibo

Do those old Porsches racing look squirrely to you?
Or it could be that the car requires a familiarity and intimate knowledge to extract the best from it, after which it will do things you probably couldn't do in other RWD cars.
The C6Zs, even later in their development, had handling issues that were not fixed. Recall when the C7 was released, edmunds reported:
"Improved Driving Experience
Modern Corvettes are plenty fast, yet lack finesse. 'Vette boys have turned this into a badge of honor, claiming that rough-and-ready-ness is the essence of the Corvette's appeal. Corvette Chief Engineer Tadge Juechter appears to disagree, saying that improving the driving dynamics was one of the priorities for the 2014 Chevrolet Corvette.
...Suspension geometry has been revised, and we're told the unusual, confidence-sapping lateral rear end motions endemic to C5s and C6s have been mitigated.
...When asked which car was the C7's primary ride and handling benchmark, the answer is unequivocal and comes without hesitation: '911.'"

Sure, it's not a 964 but it's still a short-wheelbased car with the engine ostensibly in the "wrong" location.

Guibo

Even the GT3 is not a "purpose built track car" (per Dave's parlance) IMO. Nor even the GT3 RS. Porsche does sell purpose built track cars, and they are indeed purposefully built for the track (GT3 Cup, but even that pales next to their offerings truly built purposefully for the track). Head and knee airbags? 9-speaker audio system as standard (which is optional on the Cayman S)? Non-adjustable rear wing? Non-adjustable suspension? Steel brakes as standard? LOL. If Porsche advertises this as a purpose built track car, then we should be ashamed if we believe it.

The Z06 may be built that way now, but who here knew of the ZR1 when the C6 Z06 was released?

rjwz28

Well, the Z06 is the car we are talking about, is it not

Who knows what GM will come out with next? I would say, given GM's direction of late (and rumors that the Z/28 and ZL1 will be replaced in the 6th-gen with a single car called Z/28 that is more of a ZL1+) that if we do get a C7 ZR1, it will be like a super Z06, not a track-focused beast like ACR.

As it is, GM doesn't seem interested in low-production track models; if they weren't gun-shy about doing so before, the beancounters probably are now after the bar-setting Z/28 has failed to move off the lots at the preferred pace (they are starting to put incentives on them again now; we might see them selling under $60k again like last fall in a couple months here).

GM prioritizes sales numbers over enthusiast cars; if they can get both, they'll do both, but they really don't seem to like limited-appeal enthusiast cars.

Robert L Brown

The video I watched was the GTR NISMO beat the Z06, and they made several adjustments to the front and rear spoilers and the Z06 still lost, Carlos Logos was speaking with Randy...

rjwz28

Tadge appeared to be of the position that there's nothing wrong with the car's cooling system and tuning, because "most people" won't have a problem

He's referring to this:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._track_retest/

In the original test, the Z06 barely lapped quicker than the 991 GT3... there was definitely something up with it

Guibo

The Z06 is indeed what we're talking about. I only ventured into that tangent since you mentioned "now."
Still don't see what makes the GT4 more technically track-focused than the Z06 (especially one optioned with the most aggressive aero package with adjustable wing). The manner in which Porsche has purposed it in the Cayman lineup means it is more track-focused than other Caymans. Not that it is necessarily more track-focused than cars of other marques.
Yes, we are both in agreement that it's not on the level of the ACR as Dave originally stated.

rjwz28

I already said I'm not sure whether it's more track-focused than the Z07, but the numerous compromises the base Z06 makes for track performance in favor of filling the void left by the C6 Grand Sport/Z06/ZR1 seems to have taken the edge off that the Cayman GT4 has gained by borrowing parts from its bigger brother

That's just how I feel, personally

Crabbers

Yeah, those cars left a huge void in the pits cause they're out on the track all day. Glad GM made the C7Z so it can blow up and take that space

rjwz28

Dave68

Yes, that's the retest to which I was referring. In the end the Z06 beat the GTR Nismo via the improvements by GM within a short time after the original comparison.

gary0006

Love this car more and more.



From the article:
So even before you start upgrading this car, the Porsche GT4 is breathing down 911’s neck. What Mcchip proposes is a nice and simple chip upgrade that will push the power output beyond the magical 400 barrier.

Photos and video - 406 horsepower Tune For Porsche Cayman GT4 by Mcchip-DKR

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NytmereZ

, it is now especially in this section (which is why I hardly ever post here) it wasn't always like this.

tytek

I have a friend who is thinking at getting the GT4, but it is obviously impossible to find, and it looks like all the allocations are spoken for. So buying one for MSRP at this point is a most likely a dream.

I suggested he looks at a Z28. I know... two completely different cars. But, both are track weapons in their own right. The Z28 is appealing, because you can pick one up today, for at least $10k off MSRP = $65k or less. That is $20k less than the GT4, and it looks like the Z28's 'Ring lap time is quicker than the GT4. Carbon ceramic brakes on the Z28 are impressive, from all I have read and watched.

Or would a used ('09-'10) ZR1 be the best option?