BluegrassMotorsport

You just need to calm down.

vigalante

Why, aren't you having fun yet? I just enjoy pointing out where people are wrong! Especialy when facts are presented, they do trump opinion!

Guibo

I'm looking at the downloaded pdf of the entire issue right now. Neither GM nor Ford have advertisements in there. You can also look at the supercomparo issue earlier this year. In the premium entry level sedan comparo, BMW won. Yet BMW had no ad. Audi did. But came in second place to BMW. Infiniti also had an ad but didn't win either. In the medium family sedan article, VW won. But VW had no ad. Honda did have an ad, but they lost. In the truck comparison article, GM (who had no ad) won. Ford (who did have an ad) lost. Your whining about winners going to manufacturers that pay for advertising has no basis.

Guibo

If this were true, sales of ZL1s will be zero. Correct?

vigalante

Number say Mustang wins, the magazine idiots can say what they want, it's their opinions, BUT not the FACTS that THEY proved themselves!

vigalante

Of course not....we have millions of jerks out here that are BRAND LOYAL, even after they've been bitch slapped by the competition!

Guibo

Numbers say the Mustang is faster. Not that it is a better car overall. I'm willing to bet that if the mags all said the GT500 was the better car, you'd be over the moon.

So you're saying that you'd have to be BRAND LOYAL to pick the car with better handling, more comfortable ride, more sophisticated suspension technology, better transmission, and (stock) apparently better heat resistance for more consistent running? I think some people will also pick the ZL1 because they like the way it looks.

Silver05GTO

10 yrs from now noone will care or remember which car GT500/ZL1 had better "road feel" but what they will remember is that the GT500 runs mid 11's@125mph stock and the ZL1 is about as quick as a base model Corvette in acceleration.

These types of cars are going to be seeing the drag strip way more times then a roadcourse, the GT500 has all the bragging rights that mater imo.

BTW if someone wants to buy a sports car with great handling and MPG's look no further then the BRZ/FRS-S for about $26k.

Vette_Minded

The 'numbers' say the Mustang should blow the ZL1 out of the water. The fact is, other the drag racing, it doesn't.

In fact, the ZL1 has managed to overcome it's weight and hp deficit to a 4-0 victory in the magazine comparisons. I know they're not the be all end all but to have a unanimous result really speaks volumes IMO.

So, either the Camaro is that good or Ford and Shelby were really lazy with the GT500.

Vette_Minded

BTW if someone wants to buy a drag car that will run mid 11's @ 125 mph look no further then any number of Vegas, Novas for about $7,000.

gocartone

These are considered MUSCLE cars, not track/sports cars, which is why I'd have to say the GT500 is by far the better car. The very minor advantage the ZL1 has in the handling department is easily outdone by the MAJOR horsepower advantage the GT500 has, not to mention the major advantage it also has in the durability department. Anyone worried about driving feel and a good track car should be picking up a GS Corvette anyways. It's a much better car for that than the 4100lb pig of a Camaro!

From the way I read the magazine articles- Anyone worried about their Grandma taking their car to go get groceries should pick up a ZL1, with it's smooth riding suspension and automatic transmission. Real men should go for the GT500 I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure these are the same magazines that praise the GTR for being so easy a caveman can drive it, which is what they are making this new ZL1 sound like.

vigalante

The NUMBERS show that the Shelby BLOWS AWAY the ZL1, even though I own Corvettes, the FACT remains, that the Camaro, is a second place car...... when actually raced at Homestead, the Camaro HEAT SOAKED so bad, they had to pull it off the course! Need me to post real life video's?

You like magazine articles so much try this one on for size....

http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/07...-shelby-gt500/

Guibo

Right, because big Brembo brakes (and adjustable Bilstein dampers and diff cooler on the SVT's Performance and Track Packs) were designed for brief sprints through the quarter mile. Ford even touts the "downforce-generating front grilles" and "aggressive splitter," which as far as I can tell have more to do with roadcourse work than dragstrip work. Quite obviously, the lateral g-meter and Recaro seats with hefty side bolsters are necessary for going in a straight line.

That a GS Corvette is a better track car than the ZL1 doesn't take away from the ZL1's superior handling over the GT500. Besides, some people could use the extra seats.


Interesting article by National Post. Nowhere does it say it's better than a ZL1. It does show that Ford is introducing a Mustang (again) at Calabogie Motorsport Park, which should tell you about Ford's intent with the car. Clearly, going around corners matters.

Dave68

40 years ago, yes, muscle cars were all about straight line speed, nothing more. But this is the 21st century and it is no longer acceptable to rest on straight line "laurels" to be king. To be king, today a car, muscle or otherwise MUST handle road irregularities without hopping into the weeds (or guardrails). Ford IS back at the "drawing board" to catch up to GM's superior suspension technology and there's nothing wrong with that. Competition is good.

Guibo

Spotted at the Nordschleife, which is not a dragstrip in Michigan.






Sending no fewer than 5 different vehicles over to Germany seems like overkill, if all you're after is straight line performance.

gocartone

Are you guys forgetting how good BOTH of these cars handle? I'm not saying they shouldn't handle good, but the only thing the ZL1 is really better at is being easy to drive. If that's what you're after you can pick up a Civic for much less! So far the two have shown to be neck and neck in the handling department, with the GT500 having a HUGE advantage when it comes to power. And again, we are talking muscle cars, not Miatas and BRZs.

Vette_Minded

Not really, we're talking pony cars that orginally raced the road courses of Trans Am. People now days call anything with a V8 a muscle car but they're not.

Vette_Minded

What were the GT500s Nurburgring times? Oh that's right Ford didn't say.

Guibo

You can't pick up a RWD 580 hp Civic for much less. Interesting thing about the ZL1, from the tests so far, is that it combines some of the best traits of those other cars (slick shifter, good balance, good ride quality) plus the traits associated with muscle cars. Being easy to drive does not mean lack of excitement or lack of reward. It means trust in the machine, that it will do what you want it to do, consistently and over all manner of road. Which is kind of important when you're trying to put down around so much power through two contact patches.
Not forgetting how well both of these cars handle. Just remembering that one does it better than the other. GT500 seems to have comparable handling...on a smooth track. On a track with bumps, odd cambers, and the like, the handling might not be so comparable.

In addition to racing in Trans Am, old Mustangs have raced at Le Mans, Spa-Francorchamps, even the Monte Carlo Rally. There have been special edition Mustangs and Shelbys designed for doing more than dragstrip work. 350 GT, CS6/8, Terlingua, Parnelli Jones, Bullitt, SVT Cobra R, Boss Laguna Seca, etc.

Silver05GTO

Not sure when I'll be in Germany to do a few laps but I've been to the local 1/4 mile track many times

I'm sure Ford isn't too worried about Ring bragging rights, they've built a car that most muscle car guys will appreciate and respect, which is the target audience anyway. Regardless, the GT500 is a capable track car if you want to road course it, it's far from the POS some people want to paint it as.