JohnTheStigGalt

And if so, how did you find it compared to the Z06 (to keep the thread relevant to this forum)...

So in June before driving my '09 2LZ up to Germany for some laps around the Nürburgring, I stopped in Maranello (overnighted in Modena) to go to the Ferrari Museum. Apparently, you can only take an actual factory tour if you own a Ferrari and the dealer has to set it up for you... Anyway, on the way in to the museum, I noticed two companies book-ending the museum that offered Ferraris for rent, including a couple 458's. So I reserved a slot (€150 - about $200) for a couple hours later. The museum was EXCELLENT, btw. I could have spent hours there. Well actually, I did - over two hours.

So the time comes for the drive. My guide was Alex Pignone, a super cool former superbike & Indy Car driver who had just signed on with NASCAR. He spoke excellent English, which is good, since my Italian is limited to restaurant ordering and chick-picking-up...

I expected to be impressed by the 458. The first picture I ever saw of it, I thought is was just gorgeous. Then I saw the Top Gear coverage of it, and my drool only increased. Let me tell you though, seeing one in person - it looks SO much better than the pictures. In that way, it was very similar to the Z06. Pictures just don't come close to doing our cars justice.

Impressions -- the interior... Everything you think a Ferrari interior should be, AND MORE. The leather was like butter. The stitching was flawless. Actually, and I mean this with the highest compliments, I could see a lot of what influenced John Caravaggio in his interiors. The blend of textures and materials was exotic without being gaudy. The seats were the absolute PERFECT balance between firmness, comfort, and grip. I really can't praise the seats enough. I mean, we all know the stock Z06 seats are pretty bad, but whatever foam the 458 uses would be a huge improvement in the Z06 seat (and I'm sure it can't be thousands of dollars worth of foam). The steering wheel was perhaps the coolest single piece of car gear I've ever seen. The fit in my hands was perfect. It was like it was meant to be... Key, then push-button start. Ok, so the our cars are cooler in that regard. C'mon Ferrari, you can't eliminate the need for a physical key? The start, and then.... The SOUND!! The spike in RPMS on start brought the most beautiful symphony of exhaust notes I've ever heard. I do believe just reving the engine could cause one to have "a crisis" (Clarkson's euphemism for something else)... Trust me, you've never heard or felt anything quite like the sound of this car.

Ok, so I was already thinking about rolling some drug dealers so I could afford one of these beauties, and I hadn't even pulled out of the parking lot yet. Then the drive. Sadly, there was a bit of traffic by late morning (should have gone BEFORE the museum tour), so I only got to REALLY open it up a few times. As you may know, the transmission is the identical transmission from the 2005 Ferrari Formula 1 car. 7-speed "flappy paddle". Having driven a few flappy-paddle cars before (the Corvette auto being the ABSOLUTE worst!), I wasn't a fan... Until now. The 458 has only about fifty more HP than the Z06, but it felt like two HUNDRED and fifty more. The way the transmission puts the power down is like nothing I've EVER experienced. I know it's not just the transmission, but also the diff, and the suspension, but the transmission at your fingertips is where you FEEL it. And also in your neck as it snaps back the INSTANT you put your foot down. By comparison, the Z06 tranny feels like your grandmother's Cadillac. Pulls well. Well, eventually... The gear changes were even MORE instantaneous. All you really had to do was think "shift" and it shifted -- with ZERO jerk or surge. IMMEDIATE, MIND-BOGGLING power all the way up to the 9000 RPM redline. [Initially it was shifting for me at around 6500 rpms, so I asked Alex if I could put it in Sport mode, and he said yes....]

Man, oh man! I died and went to Automotive Heaven!!

Did I mention the handling? Handling is something I was always pleased with on the Z06. Very direct and precise. Here again though, the 458 makes the Z06 feel like grammy's Caddy. It'll get there... eventually. (Ok, so that's perhaps slightly more hyperbolic than the transmission comparison, but you get the point)... The 458 steering is the quickest, most responsive with the most direct input of any car I've ever driven (including a 911). You can feel every nuance in the road -- not in a bone-jarring way as the ride was no harsher than the Z06 -- if anything it was smoother, yet raw at the same time. Driving the 458, you truly feel that the car is simply an extension of you. An enhanced you. A you with reflexes of a computer and the power of a rocket ship. I've never flown in a fighter jet (although I have piloted a Cessna), but the 458 felt like I imagine an F-18 feels. Raw, yet refined. Insanely powerful, yet unbelievably precise...


Needless to say, getting back into the Z06 was a major letdown. It was as if I'd had spent a weekend in Bora Bora "educating" Kate Beckinsale, and to now go back to the hum drum of domestic living with my wife (who wasn't exactly frumpy) was just depressing. A few laps around the Nürburgring Nordschleife helped rejuvenate my love for the Z a little, but I still fantasize about that 458 whenever my Z isn't looking... I'm not saying the Z06 isn't an amazing car. It is. ESPECIALLY for the money. But I'll never call it a "supercar" again.

Having said that, prior to leaving town, I decided to detour 40 minutes off of my planned route to give Lamborghini the same opportunity to impress me. I got there around noon only to find the Lamborghini Museum was closed for lunch. Annoying. While the Ferrari Museum had 40-50 cars on display, with lots of interactive displays, multi-media presentations in a beautifuly designed multi-level, multi-room, purpose-built facility, Lamborghini had maybe 15 cars on display in a very austere setting that looked like someone had just thrown some white paint on warehouse walls and laid some carpet down. The only exciting car was the Miura. They didn't even have a Diablo Spyder. The Reventon sitting outside was neat, but pretty crazy. I did like the LM002 (Lambo's SUV) - I'd seen one in person before. But for those thinking about visiting the Lamborghini factory -- don't bother... Complete waste of time.

Across the street from the factory was a company that rented Lamborghinis. Here, I thought, would be something to make the detour worthwhile. Only one car for rent -- the Gallardo Superleggera. A baby Lambo? Really? Ok, better than nothing, I suppose, and priced equivalently to the 458. 20 minutes on open country roads with virtually no traffic. Guide - don't remember his name, spoke no english other than "stop" and "go" (not even "right" and "left")... Fortunately, I knew "destro" and "sinistro."

Thoughts: Interior -- CRAP. Looked like a bunch of made-in-China fake-carbon-fiber bits bought on eBay thrown together with no thought as to either style or ergonomics... Seats -- AWFUL. Not comfortable at all - plywood for seat cushions. Transmission -- RUBBISH. 6-speed flappy paddle. Shift lag. JERKY as dried, cured beef. Miserable. Power - not bad. Not Z06-like though. Steering -- not bad. Z06 is better. Sound -- fart-can ricer-ish. REAL classy, Lamborghini...


If the 458 was my Kate Beckinsale (or even Elizabeth Hurley), then the Superleggera was my Hugh-Grant-10-seconds-of-regret-with-the-skank-in-the-back-of-my-car. I felt dirty. Foolish. Ashamed. Had I the time, I'd have gone back to Maranello for a cleanse with the 458. But I wanted to make the San Bernadino pass before sundown, so I pressed on. Stelvio pass the next morning, then on through Austria to Germany for some fun at the Ring.


So here's hoping that in a few years I can pick up a used 458 Spyder for under $200,000. With a US MSRP of $257,000 + the dealer mark-up, not sure if that will be possible. At least Ferrari is now offering a TRANSFERRABLE 7-year warranty (which includes all scheduled service)... Until then, I guess I'll enjoy my Z and dream.


[YES, YES, I know this thread is worthless without pics... Sadly, I had to reset my phone, so I lost all my pics. I mobile uploaded some pics at the Ring, and have some video of both the 458 drive and the Ring laps, so eventually I'll get around to editing those down and posting on YouTube...]

89vette

Well you have to realize they have been building cars of this caliber for many decades and the whole company is only about cars like that. I had an Audi R8 6 speed for three years that I just passed on to its new owner on Saturday. The car was a huge attention getter and was absolutely by far the most refined, well balanced, highly engineered car I have ever owned or driven. The quality and fit and finish were impeccable. However in the end, those were the cars faults. It was too refined and not guttural. It lacked the vibration and sound and roar of American car. So it was time to let it go.

In my garage just as of about an hour ago is my new Z06 Carbon in Inferno Orange. As soon as the 427 fires up, you know this is no refined German auto but that is what I signed up for.

I sold the Audi and bought the Z06 and got a check for $17 grand. The Z06 from a numbers perspective will spank the R8. The 458 is a beautiful car and I've seen them in person but never drove one. You can't discount the fact that the 458 optioned out is north of $300k.

Hirohawa

Wow. Great writeup. I fell like I just went on a vacation.

The 458 is a special car with an insane sound. I saw a red on one in Venice (CA not Italy) yesterday and it was so loud and shrieking, in a good way, literally everyone on the street stopped and watched as this thing drove by.

I would love to own one of these one day.

Thanks

JohnTheStigGalt

Jason, I DO realize that. I know exactly what you're saying. The thing is though, with the 458, it's at once brutal AND elegant. Hard to describe really. Think of it this way - the 458 is the hottest woman you've ever seen (pic your own) in a slinky black dress. But strapped to her leg is a pair of .50 caliber Desert Eagles that'll blow you in half... By that analogy, the Z06 is the very cute girl next door, with a pair of .45's. And your R8 would be the hot, foreign exchange student chick with a supressed 9mm...

Love the R8, btw. Saw many in Europe. Beautiful car. Congrats on the Z. It will definitely spank the R8. As you suggest, a lot of German cars are TOO refined (in terms of sports car). That's the consensus on the new M5. The old M5 was a beast. I haven't driven the new one, but the reviews all say it's pretty tame. The same was true with the 911 C4S that I drove. In fact, a German buddy of mine said a lot of C4S owners are actually converting their cars to RWD because the AWD is too sterile. [Although I prefer the styling of the C4S's wider fenders.] The Z06 is STILL the best performance car for the money, IMO. No question of that.

I expected the Ferrari to be refined (which it was, especially the interior). I didn't expect the power (and how it translated that power to the road) to RIP MY FRIKKIN' FACE off!! It was AWESOME! I think with the 430, it's much tamer. Still a beautiful car, but tame. Historically (at least in the last 40 years), Ferrari has been about beautiful cars that are fast enough, but not FAST!! The first Ferrari to do both was the Enzo, which is an F1 car with a body (basically). Obviously, I'd take one in a heartbeat. But I think Ferrari, for the FIRST TIME with the 458, found the perfect balance between race car and luxury car. And the 458 is WHOLE lot cheaper than an Enzo. Yes, fully optioned, they get quite expensive. I parked next to one in the Nürburgring paddock that had this wild irridescent orange paint that was a $30,000 factory option!! I'll take mine in red, thank you.

Of course, using your Formula 1 team for all your production car R&D has it's advantages. I've been to the Monaco Grand Prix twice and am a HUGE F1 fan. Saw the IndyCar Baltimore race a few weeks ago and practically fell asleep. No comparison between the two. F1 comes back to the US next November. Maybe one day we'll get a GM factory F1 team, and they can use what the learn to build the C9 Z06, yet still keep it "affordable"...

JohnTheStigGalt

Thanks! The sound IS something you have to physically experience to understand. Clips on YouTube don't even come close. I think the best way I can describe it is as "symphonius destruction"...

I ABSOLUTELY LOVED the sound of my C5 with LG LT headers. (If I'm honest, the C6Z stock exhaust could use a "little" work, even with the MTW). But to compare my C5 w/header sound to the 458 is like comparing a kid with a kazoo to the London Philharmonic. They can both do a stirring rendition of the 1812 Overture, but there's only one I'd pay $100 to see.

Cheers,
Vaughn

Hirohawa

That is a great analogy. But I'd like to add that the cute girl next door will jump out the window in in her jeans and save your *** as the the hottest woman in the black dress will still be putting her makeup on.

jschindler

Someone once told me "for every hot chick, there is a guy who is just about tired of her sh*t". Because I'll never be able to afford a Ferrari, that is my attitude towards them - it's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Great write-up though.

89vette

LOL. I love the analogies!!

fullmonty

Great write-up, I'd love a chance to get behind the wheel for a road trip, or better yet..track time at Willow Springs big track. I see ( and Hear!!) 458s almost weekly here in LaLa land, saw a couple at a local car meet this past Sunday. When looking at the front the body reminds me of a Manta Ray gliding through the water. Now you've got me daydreaming of the other "woman", I guess I'll have to give my Z a quik detailing when I get home ( to assuage my guilt).

Last night saw replay of one of my favorite Top Gear episodes again, where the guys search for the best driving road...Davos to Stelvia.
Did you dig it?, How would you rank the drive?

Thanks, Mel

ferravette

Excellent post and i agree with almost everything you said. the part that i disagree with is only a matter of personal taste.

By the way you mentioned something about the Enzo in one of your posts. Even before it was released we were told by our local dealer that it was meant to be a little Enzo.

I have owned many exotics including ferraris. Here's what i personally have never liked about ferrari and still don't to some extent but it's getting better. They rely on rev's. I personally like cubic inches, so i've always leaned towards Lamborghinis. Lower redline but alot more torque and at 12 cylinders the sound is a symphony.

Ferrari up to the 360 (the spyder is my favorite) has used timing belts. i like chains.

Yes the 458 is a force to be reckonded with but once again it's a 4.5 liter engine (274 cu in ?) that is squeezed to produce the horsepower that is has. It sounds incredible and it just loves to rev, but after a few weeks, (and i can only speak for myself) of hearing WEEEEE WEEEEE WEEEEE, i was happy to get back in the Z06 or the lambo, just for the torque and hear VRRROOOM.

I did not like the front of the 458 from the moment i saw it and after a few weeks it got worse. For me it's looks like the front was designed in japan. The rest is nicely done. The interior is about the best i have seen.

i can go on and on, and like i said my differences are just a difference of opinion.

Handling is hard to compare. Spend enough time in a midengined car and when you find yourself driving a front engined car you feel like a fish out of water. That is not to say that one handles better than the other.

As far as the shifting there is not even a comparison between ferrari and a Z06 or a gallardo (which i have never been able to warm up to).
It's blistering fast and makes the car feel faster than it is. As far as a race between a stock Z06 and the 458 thats a tough one and i can't comment on it because we have not tried it yet but i believe it will be a driver's race. Actually let me rephrase that (since the 458 has paddle shifting), and say that the Z06 driver has to do everything right to stay in the race. Also the Z06 has a good weight advantage.

In conclusion the 458 is an engineering marvel hard to compete with and ferrari has finally stepped up their game. But i have to confess that no matter what i drive, for the fun factor i'm always coming back to the Z. I can pretty much do anything with it and if it breaks i take it to the dealer, i get it back quick and so on. Exotics are a different story.

I am glad you enjoyed your experience, and i agree with you 100% about the gallardo.



PS i added some pics at the bottom. Enjoy

ferravette

How true.

Vito.A

When we were in Italy last Jun I saw a 458 at one of the perfume factories. It's an awesome car.

Geared

458 looks pretty good. Interior is the ****. Sounds great. Chick magnet blah blah.....but you have to wear Gucci sunglasses and white pants when you drive it....Bleh.

100 grand of that sticker price is simply because it has ferrari logos. for 300,000 i can find a way better way to spend my money.

z06/zr1 - modded to spank the 458 in all regards
ford gt
grocery getter of my choosing

and id still have money left over.

I guess if I had 20 million, id consider buying one, but even then.....id rather have a gt2 or gt3rsr anyday of the week.

70lt102z06

Great write-up.

The 458 is a car to be desired but few will own.

Just like great looking women, you can always dream.

Richor

.

JohnTheStigGalt

Sorry. Not possible. Not unless you source a 458 tranny and adjust the diff to match (and reprogram the Z's computer), and transplant Ferrari suspension/controls arms/steering rack. That's my point. The Z06 is 3 seconds slower than the 458 round the Top Gear test track. 3 seconds is a lifetime. The ZR1 almost made it. Sure, push enough HP into the Z and you'd eventually get beat it, but you'd never get to "spanking" territory, and regardless of the time, the driving experience (independent of the interior) could never compare.

kageryu311

I love when people who can't afford an exotic say that. Most of the people who buy those cars can buy 20 Z06's and still be ahead of their game. If I had the money to afford a 458 I would get an Aventador. When you have the money to afford cars like that,you value quality (458) over quantity (Z06, ZR1, Ford GT). As much as I love the ZR1 at the end of the day its just another C6 compared to the 458 in the aspects of the full car experience.


That is an excellent write up.

rgregory

Well for all you found negative I still love my "baby" lambo (regular one not Superleggera). I always find it funny that the Gallardo is reffered to as that but the 360, 430, 458 never are the baby Ferrari.

Transmission. Did you have the car in sport mode? If not it was not on the fast shift setting. Yes it can be jerky but you learn how to drive it smooth with the throttle.

JohnTheStigGalt

Thanks for all the comments guys.

@RGregory: the reason the term "baby" applies for the Gallardo and not the others is that Lambo for 30 years made only V-12s. Then in an attempt to compete with Ferrari and others at the lower price-points, they dropped 2 cylinders. Ferraris during the same time were all V-8s (until the Enzo). The 360 preceded the Enzo, so it's not a baby of it. The 430 replaced the 360 which in turn was replaced by the 458. The Enzo was such limited production and simply an effort by Ferrari to show what they could do with actual F1 technology in a road car. The 360/430/458 were never intended to be a cheaper alternative to Ferrari's marquee line. They WERE the marquee line, with the Enzo just being a bit of showing off. The opposite is true for Lamborghini. The Countach, then Diablo, then Murcielago were their marquee cars, and the Gallardo was a deliberate downgrade. Not saying it's not a REAL Lambo - it is. It's just a baby Lambo, the same as the H3 is a baby Hummer. Not a criticism, but I'd have much rather have had the chance to hear the iconic Lamborghini 12 cylinders pushing me down the road, which is why I was disappointed that they only had one car to rent. Outside of the Ferrari factory, there were at least 6 different models to rent including a 599.

Yes I had the tranny in sport mode. In fact, I had to insist on it before I even pulled away. The guy repeatedly said no at first, so I actually started to get out of the car to call it off before he finally capitulated. No way I was going to go non-sport-mode.

I'd probably like the regular Gallardo better than the Superleggera, at least in terms of looks, since it has few carbon fiber bits just stuck on randomly... From the outside, the car was gorgeous. I was really amazed at how uncomfortable the seats were though.

If I paid that much for a car, I wouldn't want to have to compensate for the jerky shifting. The Superleggera is the same price point as the 458 (though it's probably easier to actually buy a Lambo), so apples-to-apples, the 458's tranny is light years ahead of the Lambo in terms of quickness and smoothness. Lamborghini had a brief foray into Formula 1 years ago. It's a shame they didn't stick with it because there's no substitute for the testing and R&D edge that gives Ferrari. The 458 came out in 2009, but uses the 2005 F1 tranny. I have to wonder what improvements have been made since 2005 that they may have incorporated in to the new 458 Spyder... Don't see how the tranny could get any better frankly, but who knows.

I also think it's quite likely that had I not just driven the 458 2 hours before, I'd have been far less critical of the Lambo. (I'd still have called the seats atrocious and the interior design chintzy, but I probably would have enjoyed the drive more). At the end of the day, the Lambo's 6-speed flappy-paddle is still better than the C6 coupe auto flappy paddle (but that's not saying a whole lot).

My giddiness over the 458 wasn't entirely uninterrupted. Other than the need for a key with the push-button start, oh and the silly non-sport mode (I mean, why bother??), I was also annoyed by the fact that the shift paddles didn't rotate with the steering wheel. It made shifting during hard cornering much trickier. I guess I'd get used to it eventually, although Alex did say Ferrari offered paddles mounted F1-style but it was special order. That might be tricky too since I'm sure the 458's steering lock isn't nearly as direct as an F1 car... I'd have to try the 458 out on a track before figuring out what would work best for it. I can see why your average rich-dude-driver wouldn't want the F1 mount, though, but that's clearly not me (since I'm neither an average driver NOR rich just yet)....

Jeremy Clarkson criticized the 458 steering wheel for locating all the controls on the wheel and none on the stalk. He even ridiculously demonstrated how in a turn, the turn signal buttons ended up backwards causing you to signal the wrong way. In actual operation, sans hyperbole, I found all the wheel controls to be quite intuitive. I didn't use the Nav system, so couldn't evaluate whether the Nav screen occupying the same real estate as the digital speedo would be an annoyance, as Jeremy suggested. I think he was just trying find something negative to say about the 458 to try to balance his otherwise effusive review. He did the same with the Z06 (which he actually LOVES) by maligning the flexy rear fascia...

@fullmonty: Yes, the Top Gear episode to which you're referring is Series 10, Episode 1. My goal was to retrace their route, with the exception of their unsuccessful Luxembourg excursion and the brief stint in France. The San Bernadino pass, then on to Stelvio was absolutely amazing. Unfortunately, the weather was highly uncooperative, so I had rain and fog for much of it, meaning I couldn't really tear up the road too much. I preferred San Bernadino to Stelvio I think, but that may be because there was a bike race UP the back side of Stelvio (just BRUTAL), which created a bit of traffic. Even with the fog and the rain, the view from Stelvio was spectacular. In a subsequent season, the Top Gear trio drove a road in eastern Europe that supposedly topped San Bernadino/Stelvio. I didn't have time to make it out there. Having driven the Amalfi Coast though sixteen times, it's hard to beat the AC for amazing coastal vistas interrupted by ancient beach towns with a bounty of switchbacks, sweeps and elevation changes binding it all together. I regret not ever getting any real footage of a Vietri-to-Positano run along the AC. Early in the morning, with no traffic, one can scream around the corners in between the towns. If I were rich-rich-rich, I'd buy a villa in Positano and drive the Amalfi Coast every day. Then I guess I'd have a summer home in the mountains of Switzerland and do San Bernadino and Stelvio as much as possible also... Ah well, one can dream.

@Z06SV: obviously automotive styling is very much a personal preference thing. I think the 458 is the most beautiful modern-day Ferrari (nothing beats the old 50's era ones in my mind). But I don't expect everyone else to feel the same way. I have a friend who thinks Angelina Jolie is the most beautiful woman EVER. And while I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating cookies (not that she ever eats), she's not even in my top 25... So, to each his own. Clarkson thinks the 458 is the most beautiful Ferrari since the 308. Not sure why he doesn't like the look of the Enzo. Having seen one in person, it's a STUNNINGLY beautiful car even if it is a little radical. Again, it's the beholder's eyes, isn't it? I do LOVE the 308 though. I also love the styling of the Ford GT (which obviously Clarkson owned for a while before finally tiring of the constant service issues).

I can't WAIT to see a 458 Spyder in person. The 430 Spyder is a much sexier car than the 430 Coupe, so it will be interesting to see if the same holds true for the 458. The auto-roof operation of the 458 Spyder is about as trick as it gets. If you haven't seen that, search for it on YouTube. Very cool.

rgregory

Ok you had sport mode on.. honestly the car shifts pretty fast in sport mode. Yes maybe some of the newer designs do shift faster but you are talking about hundreths of seconds difference. All good. I recently converted my car from AWD to RWD and it is a completely different car now so much more fun to drive. Steering feel is much better now as well as turn in.

Also the jerky shifting in the Gallardo is because it is like a manual in that you have to let off the gas when you shift (not if full throttle I mean normal driving). The car does match revs on downshift but not upshifts. No different than in a manual if you pop the clutch with the engine spining fast. I know the Gallardo system is not the best worked out. I drove a BMW M3 with the f1 and it was much smoother. The Gallardo you have to learn it it make it smooth. In spite of it I am happy I got the F1 trans it is fun.



I can see it using technology from the F1 7 speed transmissions but it cannot be the actually transmission. F1 cars are different. For one thing they have reverse but it is an emergency only gear and would never last in a street application. F1 cars do not use a dual clutch either.