Ferrari and Corvette Prices
03-22-2011, 09:49 AM
#41
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St. Jude Donor '12
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Only that to suggest that most modern Ferraris are not investments and depreciate just like Corvettes and most other cars. The other point is directed at those who like to rant on this forum about how a Corvette is faster than some Ferraris, or wonder if a Ferrari is the better vehicle of choice. etc. Simply trying to bring some things into perspective for those who might believe that a Ferrari is a viable option for those on a Corvette budget. Nothing more. Well, perhaps to suggest things like belt changes and major services in some Ferraris would make the payments for a year or more on a Corvette.
Do I sense some disagreement?
Do I sense some disagreement?
03-22-2011, 01:01 PM
#42
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Ignorance is Bliss!!!! Oh obviously you have never driven either. If you like a front engine Vette (which technically it isn't. The C5 is a mid-engine since the block sits behind the front axle line.) then you would understand the love of the front V12 powered GT's.
I am the proud owner of a 1998 C5 coupe. I enjoy the car quite a bit but I would never confuse it with a Ferrari V12 GT. I am currently looking for a 2003 or 2004 575M Maranello. Would really like to get my hands on a HGTC version. A nice low mileage one can be had in the high 90's. The engine in these cars is nearly bullet proof and most of the work on the car can be done by the owner himself. No fancy trips to the dealer for a plug change or other routine maintenance. The only real big ticket item is the regular timing belt changes. Can't quite understand why they engineered the car like that but they did. Anyways those mid-engine Ferraris you have to drop the engine out to do a plug swap.
The 550 and 575 are probably near the bottom of their depreciation curve. You can pick one up for $90k drive it and enjoy it without putting excessive miles on it and sell it in 3-4 years for pretty much the same amount. Try that with a new Z06 which will cost very near that same amount.
I am the proud owner of a 1998 C5 coupe. I enjoy the car quite a bit but I would never confuse it with a Ferrari V12 GT. I am currently looking for a 2003 or 2004 575M Maranello. Would really like to get my hands on a HGTC version. A nice low mileage one can be had in the high 90's. The engine in these cars is nearly bullet proof and most of the work on the car can be done by the owner himself. No fancy trips to the dealer for a plug change or other routine maintenance. The only real big ticket item is the regular timing belt changes. Can't quite understand why they engineered the car like that but they did. Anyways those mid-engine Ferraris you have to drop the engine out to do a plug swap.
The 550 and 575 are probably near the bottom of their depreciation curve. You can pick one up for $90k drive it and enjoy it without putting excessive miles on it and sell it in 3-4 years for pretty much the same amount. Try that with a new Z06 which will cost very near that same amount.
03-22-2011, 01:52 PM
#43
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Who the hell wants a 4 seater Ferrari? More importantly, who wants to sit in the back?!?
Maybe if I just had a crazy amount of money, I'd buy one. Even then I'd go vintage. Really though I'd be satisfied with a well done kit.
Maybe if I just had a crazy amount of money, I'd buy one. Even then I'd go vintage. Really though I'd be satisfied with a well done kit.
03-22-2011, 02:50 PM
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About the rear seats and depreciation I remember Clarkson from Top Gear making fun of it saying that he would feel like an idiot for buying one because those depreciate thousands per second when he was talking about the F612 Scaglieti wich actually has the engine on the front and its chasis is the base for the 599 GTB.
03-22-2011, 02:54 PM
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St. Jude Donor '12
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About the rear seats and depreciation I remember Clarkson from Top Gear making fun of it saying that he would feel like an idiot for buying one because those depreciate thousands per second when he was talking about the F612 Scaglieti wich actually has the engine on the front and its chasis is the base for the 599 GTB.
03-22-2011, 08:06 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
Resale values on Ferrari's
We bought a 308 Quattro last year from the UK for a bargain now they have jumped in price by around 15k due to the Aussie dollar being strong and people seeing a bargain and snapping them up. In Hong Kong the 430's are practically new car price due to not being able to buy new 458's being spoken for, 360's have even jumped up a bit over there as well because of the chain reaction. It amazes me how little things can determine a second hand market. Stewy
We bought a 308 Quattro last year from the UK for a bargain now they have jumped in price by around 15k due to the Aussie dollar being strong and people seeing a bargain and snapping them up. In Hong Kong the 430's are practically new car price due to not being able to buy new 458's being spoken for, 360's have even jumped up a bit over there as well because of the chain reaction. It amazes me how little things can determine a second hand market. Stewy
03-22-2011, 09:24 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Yes, I showed you one model. Admittedly it was among the least desirable of modern Ferraris, but it was still a front-engined V-12 and yet dropped a lot in terms of actual dollars. Like almost $200K. That was my point to begin with. Go look up 308 Mondials, Say 308 QVs, even the more modern 360/340 series which you suggest bring a premium price.
Now the F355, IMO was a great looking car and, arguably, one of the best looking of the modern Ferraris. If memory serves, it was also one that didn't require a complete engine removal for a major service.
Make no mistake, modern Ferraris are boutique cars - accessories to some. Like a Rolex watch with wheels, dare I offer? I guess it also depends on what one considers to be a "modern" Ferrari, because, say, a nice Dino 246GTS will today bring a price about 5X-8X it's original selling price.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to compare Ferraris to Corvettes in anything but value. You're close to what you believe, but please consider what those models you mention are worth today in terms of their original price.
03-22-2011, 10:34 PM
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St. Jude Donor '06
I beg to differ... you can go on the internet and prove that for yourself. You don't need me to tell you that. What do you mean by a premium? are you suggesting the rate of depreciation is less than other Ferraris or that the asking price is more than the original MSRP? I have yet to see any Ferrari built in the last 25 years - with some exceptions - become anything but an expensive used car. Indeed, a bargain to some.
Yes, I showed you one model. Admittedly it was among the least desirable of modern Ferraris, but it was still a front-engined V-12 and yet dropped a lot in terms of actual dollars. Like almost $200K. That was my point to begin with. Go look up 308 Mondials, Say 308 QVs, even the more modern 360/340 series which you suggest bring a premium price.
Now the F355, IMO was a great looking car and, arguably, one of the best looking of the modern Ferraris. If memory serves, it was also one that didn't require a complete engine removal for a major service.
Make no mistake, modern Ferraris are boutique cars - accessories to some. Like a Rolex watch with wheels, dare I offer? I guess it also depends on what one considers to be a "modern" Ferrari, because, say, a nice Dino 246GTS will today bring a price about 5X-8X it's original selling price.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to compare Ferraris to Corvettes in anything but value. You're close to what you believe, but please consider what those models you mention are worth today in terms of their original price.
Yes, I showed you one model. Admittedly it was among the least desirable of modern Ferraris, but it was still a front-engined V-12 and yet dropped a lot in terms of actual dollars. Like almost $200K. That was my point to begin with. Go look up 308 Mondials, Say 308 QVs, even the more modern 360/340 series which you suggest bring a premium price.
Now the F355, IMO was a great looking car and, arguably, one of the best looking of the modern Ferraris. If memory serves, it was also one that didn't require a complete engine removal for a major service.
Make no mistake, modern Ferraris are boutique cars - accessories to some. Like a Rolex watch with wheels, dare I offer? I guess it also depends on what one considers to be a "modern" Ferrari, because, say, a nice Dino 246GTS will today bring a price about 5X-8X it's original selling price.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to compare Ferraris to Corvettes in anything but value. You're close to what you believe, but please consider what those models you mention are worth today in terms of their original price.
03-22-2011, 11:41 PM
#52
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4...58-Italia.html
Anything can be sold for whatever amount - duh.
However, I talked to guy and he actually sold them for 180k (not 150k as I had thought.) I think that's still a good deal for a 2 year old car since he said the dealers wanted 230 for new ones.
Anything can be sold for whatever amount - duh.
However, I talked to guy and he actually sold them for 180k (not 150k as I had thought.) I think that's still a good deal for a 2 year old car since he said the dealers wanted 230 for new ones.
03-23-2011, 12:35 AM
#53
Le Mans Master
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03-23-2011, 12:42 AM
#54
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St. Jude Donor '06
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/4...58-Italia.html
Anything can be sold for whatever amount - duh.
However, I talked to guy and he actually sold them for 180k (not 150k as I had thought.) I think that's still a good deal for a 2 year old car since he said the dealers wanted 230 for new ones.
Anything can be sold for whatever amount - duh.
However, I talked to guy and he actually sold them for 180k (not 150k as I had thought.) I think that's still a good deal for a 2 year old car since he said the dealers wanted 230 for new ones.
03-23-2011, 12:51 AM
#56
There wasn't a 2009 model - duh. It was launched in fall of '09 in Frankfurt with 2010 models to be available in 2010. Most dealers had a launch mid summer & allocation was available in the fall. The car would have started at a $235 base + prep etc for probably $10k + a minimum of $15k in options. But what do I know...
03-23-2011, 02:07 PM
#57
With back seats as nice looking as these, I'd want to sit there.
03-23-2011, 02:12 PM
#58
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St. Jude Donor '12
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I beg to differ... you can go on the internet and prove that for yourself. You don't need me to tell you that. What do you mean by a premium? are you suggesting the rate of depreciation is less than other Ferraris or that the asking price is more than the original MSRP? I have yet to see any Ferrari built in the last 25 years - with some exceptions - become anything but an expensive used car. Indeed, a bargain to some.
.
.
Yes, I showed you one model. Admittedly it was among the least desirable of modern Ferraris, but it was still a front-engined V-12 and yet dropped a lot in terms of actual dollars. Like almost $200K. That was my point to begin with. Go look up 308 Mondials, Say 308 QVs, even the more modern 360/340 series which you suggest bring a premium price.
.
.
Make no mistake, modern Ferraris are boutique cars - accessories to some. Like a Rolex watch with wheels, dare I offer? I guess it also depends on what one considers to be a "modern" Ferrari, because, say, a nice Dino 246GTS will today bring a price about 5X-8X it's original selling price.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to compare Ferraris to Corvettes in anything but value. You're close to what you believe, but please consider what those models you mention are worth today in terms of their original price.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to compare Ferraris to Corvettes in anything but value. You're close to what you believe, but please consider what those models you mention are worth today in terms of their original price.
Last edited by PeterK; 03-23-2011 at 02:17 PM.
03-23-2011, 08:07 PM
#59
By premium I mean that a used f-car brings a "premium" price compared to other cars of the same vintage. An 85 mondial will still bring about 30% to 40% of its original MSRP as long as it has all the maintenance history. Can the same be said about 1985 corvette?
Many would argue that it was THE LEAST desirable f-car in the company's history because of its V12, made of two dino engines, and its GM-sourced hydromatic slush box. It was also unreliable and very expensive to fix.
F355 still required engine removed for the cambelt service. F360 had a more serviceable engine arrangement where the cambelts could be replaced w/o removal of the engine. All further models came with camchains rather than belts.
I can't comment on how "ferraris are like the rolex watches with wheels"
Many would argue that it was THE LEAST desirable f-car in the company's history because of its V12, made of two dino engines, and its GM-sourced hydromatic slush box. It was also unreliable and very expensive to fix.
F355 still required engine removed for the cambelt service. F360 had a more serviceable engine arrangement where the cambelts could be replaced w/o removal of the engine. All further models came with camchains rather than belts.
I can't comment on how "ferraris are like the rolex watches with wheels"
1985 Corvette MSRP $24891
http://www.corvettelink.com/corvette....asp?Year=1985
Used prices range from $4995 (20%) to about 17k(68%), with the good ones ranging around 10k and above
see for yourself
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search..._type=priceASC
I would say the resale on the 1985 is pretty good considering it is one of Corvette's least desirable models - kind of like the 612.
Nevertheless, this is all fuzzy math and conjecture. Like I said earlier, even if the car still retains it's value, the comparative cost (a dollar's purchasing power) when purchased must also be considered. I can tell you this, Inflation also has much to do with your numbers.
Same goes for the Rolex. Like Ferrari, or Corvette, except for certain coveted models, they don't appreciate.
IMO If you are buying it for any other end than to enjoy the car for what it is (which is to drive it), you are fooling yourself.
03-23-2011, 08:43 PM
#60
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Okay, I stand corrected on some of the things I posted. I had neglected to recognize the current market wherein some used (modern) Ferraris do indeed bring a premium price. I think this may be largely due to the demand for the new editions. Don't know for sure; I've been away from the biz for a long time.
I think however, this may be a temporary market condition owing to simple economics. There may very well be a time, as Ferrari expands production, when the market settles down and, IMO, anything later than a 355 - and maybe even that model - becomes nothing more than a used car. A beautiful and exciting used car to be sure, but with some exceptions I think, eventually, most of the F340, 360, whatever.. will never bring the stratospheric prices of the "Enzo Era" cars, like the 250 series and up through the 246 Dinos.
That said, the sheer number of Corvettes produced will always keep their prices low in the used market, with some exceptions. My original point was simply to illustrate that anyone, especially on this forum, considering - or comparing - their current BG-built ride of choice to a Ferrari - should consider the cost of ownership, not simply the purchase price, and that includes depreciation. BTW, despite some criticism above, I have found the Mondial and the earlier 2+2 308 GT4 to be delightful to drive, the latter being, arguably, a higher performance and better handling car than the 2-seater 308s that followed.
Again, I've been out of the Ferrari business, as a salesman and a broker for many years. I may be rightfully accused of being a bit out of touch with current market trends. What I can tell you from my experience is that I was never able - at least easily - to sell a new, or used, Ferrari to anyone currently driving a Porsche 911 or a decent Corvette.
I'm still not sure about Rolex watches since I only know I can't afford a new one, nor a vintage example. Then, I've never really wanted one.
In some ways I'm almost sorry I started this thread, but it did get a lot of interesting responses and I'm happy about that.
This is a forum, isn't it?
I think however, this may be a temporary market condition owing to simple economics. There may very well be a time, as Ferrari expands production, when the market settles down and, IMO, anything later than a 355 - and maybe even that model - becomes nothing more than a used car. A beautiful and exciting used car to be sure, but with some exceptions I think, eventually, most of the F340, 360, whatever.. will never bring the stratospheric prices of the "Enzo Era" cars, like the 250 series and up through the 246 Dinos.
That said, the sheer number of Corvettes produced will always keep their prices low in the used market, with some exceptions. My original point was simply to illustrate that anyone, especially on this forum, considering - or comparing - their current BG-built ride of choice to a Ferrari - should consider the cost of ownership, not simply the purchase price, and that includes depreciation. BTW, despite some criticism above, I have found the Mondial and the earlier 2+2 308 GT4 to be delightful to drive, the latter being, arguably, a higher performance and better handling car than the 2-seater 308s that followed.
Again, I've been out of the Ferrari business, as a salesman and a broker for many years. I may be rightfully accused of being a bit out of touch with current market trends. What I can tell you from my experience is that I was never able - at least easily - to sell a new, or used, Ferrari to anyone currently driving a Porsche 911 or a decent Corvette.
I'm still not sure about Rolex watches since I only know I can't afford a new one, nor a vintage example. Then, I've never really wanted one.
In some ways I'm almost sorry I started this thread, but it did get a lot of interesting responses and I'm happy about that.
This is a forum, isn't it?