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Almost killed by a Toyota today!

Old 05-03-2010, 01:37 AM
  #81  
Never Say Never
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Originally Posted by m48xhp
Really? Really? Are you serious? You are the more self-contradicting bone-headed person on this forum.

You post this:


Then you post this:


WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I never said anything about asbestos or Asia's business and government culture.


I see you are a psychiatricst, so I am going to take your entire persona on this forum as some kind of joke, purposely saying some of the dumbest things I have ever read, just to see our reaction. If this is the case, then touche!

Think about it. Every time I see you post in any thread, you stick your nose where it was not requested and make everyhing a domestic vs. import debate and get proven wrong by MANY member in every thread. I dont know how the mods haven't caught wind of it. YOU are the outcast, YOU are the one that is wrong.


but go ahead, reply back telling me how i am naive and should read a book. I'll be out driving my Tundra into on coming traffic uncontrollably because all the people in Indiana, California, Alabama that built it and it's componenets are out to kill me.
Maybe you should take a look at just how stupid you make yourself look. Somehow it is not okay for vettesuspension not to bring up import vs domestic and yet you do often? At least make an attempt to look credible instead the fool. As for an outcast here you are in the other cars section where its safe. Go to C6 gen with your rubbish and see who the outcast is.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:59 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Never Say Never
Maybe you should take a look at just how stupid you make yourself look. Somehow it is not okay for vettesuspension not to bring up import vs domestic and yet you do often? At least make an attempt to look credible instead the fool. As for an outcast here you are in the other cars section where its safe. Go to C6 gen with your rubbish and see who the outcast is.
hi. nice to meet you. 1) show me a thread where I started an import vs domestic debate. 2) this thread began in C6 Gen. I never come to Other Cars. But you are right, I look stupid.

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Old 05-03-2010, 09:27 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by m48xhp
hi. nice to meet you. 1) show me a thread where I started an import vs domestic debate. 2) this thread began in C6 Gen. I never come to Other Cars.
But you are right, I look stupid
.

That's a understatement.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:16 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Vette Suspension
I'm not at all swayed by your propaganda. Buy, whatever you want from whomever you want. I have no problem with certain parts or even certain products made from other countries. The issue is people who clearly have a bias for some reason or another against the country they claim to live in the United States. Sadly, people like yourself have no issue bashing American products while frequently propping up products from Asia. Personally, I believe people like this have issues with the country they live in more then the product itself.
Of course your not swayed by supporting evidence. I didn't expect you to be frankly. Your blind bias will not let you move past your uncanny hatred for all things foreign. Obviously we both have a bias here. I am biased against things that destroy us both domestically and foreign. You are not at all bothered by domestic problems but want to focus and spew entirely on things abroad. I'm guessing when OKC was bombed a few years ago and many died you just shrugged it off since someone from the US killed many but, you were deeply moved by anything else. Yeah there is a problem here but you won't ever realize it.

-Alex
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Old 05-03-2010, 02:24 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by AlexSmith
Of course your not swayed by supporting evidence. I didn't expect you to be frankly. Your blind bias will not let you move past your uncanny hatred for all things foreign. Obviously we both have a bias here. I am biased against things that destroy us both domestically and foreign. You are not at all bothered by domestic problems but want to focus and spew entirely on things abroad. I'm guessing when OKC was bombed a few years ago and many died you just shrugged it off since someone from the US killed many but, you were deeply moved by anything else. Yeah there is a problem here but you won't ever realize it.

-Alex
You have the Internet to surf CF. I suggest you use the same to look up the difference between propaganda & evidence.

Search ResultsPropaganda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propaganda is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position. As opposed to impartially ...

Etymology - Types - Techniques - Models
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda - Cached - Similar

Evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the truth of an assertion. Giving or procuring evidence is the ...

Burden of proof - Problems in evidence - Evidence in science
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence - Cached - Similar

As for evidence I'm awaiting yours pertaining to the C5's that blew up and, killed or maimed innocent Americans along with your evidence that GM covered up the defects.


Once again there is a large difference between making a vehicle that has defects and, covering up a defect that kills innocents.

I'm very disturbed when American's die either at the hands of foreign or domestic terrorism. Usually people that have issues with the country and, a bias or hate are the one's that tend to destroy or kill in their own country.

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Old 05-03-2010, 03:14 PM
  #86  
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Here're some facts you may like like to see:

Ford Had 20 Acceleration Deaths as Regulators Cited Human Error
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A By Jeff Green, Margaret Cronin Fisk and Angela Greiling Keane

March 15 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. regulators have tracked more deaths in vehicles made by Ford Motor Co., Chrysler Group LLC and other companies combined than by Toyota Motor Corp. during three decades of unintended acceleration reviews that often blamed human error.

Fifty-nine of 110 fatalities attributed to sudden acceleration in National Highway Traffic Safety Administration records occurred in vehicles other than those sold by Toyota, whose recalls have drawn widespread attention to the issue, according to data compiled for Bloomberg News by the NHTSA.

The agency received 15,174 complaints involving unintended acceleration in the past decade and has run 141 investigations of the phenomenon since 1980, closing 112 of them without corrective action. NHTSA’s repeated conclusion that crashes occurred because drivers mistakenly stomped the accelerator became a policy position that caused investigators to take complaints of runaway vehicles less seriously than they should have, safety advocates say.

“The agency had made a determination that this was primarily a human factor, driver error, and that’s outside NHTSA’s purview,” said Joan Claybrook, a former NHTSA administrator. “The Toyota case has brought new scrutiny to other factors, and NHTSA has to look at other causes.” Claybrook is also president emeritus of Public Citizen, a Washington-based consumer advocacy group that has sued automakers seeking crash information.

Grand Cherokee

NHTSA, which is responsible for ensuring the safety of motor vehicles in the U.S., hasn’t previously disclosed the non- Toyota deaths. After Toyota’s 51, Ford and Chrysler vehicles were linked to the most deaths -- 20 for Ford and 12 for Chrysler.

Ford hasn’t identified any specific safety trends in its vehicles, said Said Deep, a Ford spokesman. In terms of the broader issue of sudden acceleration, “It is the agency’s obligation, if NHTSA believes it’s appropriate, that they investigate it,” he said.

The NHTSA death database included crashes of 56 different models from various years. Among the models generating multiple complaints were Chrysler Jeep Grand Cherokee vehicles that took off and crashed after idling at car washes or service stations and Ford vehicles in which the speed control allegedly failed to disengage or otherwise surged.

Arkansas Accident

One of the earliest sudden acceleration deaths in the NHTSA records prepared for Bloomberg News came on June 7, 1995, when a 1988 Lincoln Town Car in Mountain Home, Arkansas, accelerated in a parking lot and hit two boys, killing one and requiring the amputation of the other boy’s leg, according to a 1999 letter filed to the agency by attorney Sandy S. McMath in Little Rock, Arkansas.

McMath asked NHTSA to review its 1989 acceleration report to consider whether electronics that managed cruise control in Ford and other vehicles might be a cause of some unintended acceleration. NHTSA reviewed the request for two months and rejected it, according to agency records. NHTSA had previously studied complaints of sudden acceleration in 1985 Town Cars in 1987 without taking action.

“They refused to reopen the matter,” McMath said in an interview. “We felt it was administrative malpractice.”

During its investigation, McMath said NHTSA never contacted him. “They never talked to the Reverend and Mrs. Chapman, the parents of the boy who was hurt.”
Twenty Fatalities

The 1995 Arkansas death was the first of 20 fatalities involving Ford vehicles in NHTSA data supplied to Bloomberg. Among the 51 fatalities in Toyota vehicles, 36 were reported after Oct. 5 of last year, when widespread publicity of unintended acceleration in the company’s cars began.

“We monitor the performance of our vehicles on an ongoing basis and we have not seen a safety trend,” said Deep, the Ford spokesman. “But like all manufacturers, we do receive these kind of allegations.”

NHTSA has also fielded repeated complaints about unintended acceleration in Grand Cherokees.

In March 2002, two expert witnesses sent NHTSA an 84-page report on crashes involving Grand Cherokees, asking the agency to reconsider its 1989 sudden acceleration findings. The report was prompted by lawsuits against drivers who had been sued because their Grand Cherokees crashed after accelerating out of control.
Jeep Models

That 2002 report pointed to 665 acceleration complaints involving 1987 to 1998 Jeep models and about 300 complaints each for 1993, 1994 and 1995 models. Many of the complaints focused on cars that accelerated unexpectedly from car washes and service stations, said David Bizzak, an engineer who co-wrote the report.

Chrysler had recalled Jeeps from 1989 and 1990 because of a sensor that could fail and cause a high idle, the 2002 study said. It had also recalled 1984-to-1995 models to add a “shift interlock,” requiring drivers to apply the brake before they can put the car in gear.

In September 2002, NHTSA denied the request to reconsider causes of sudden acceleration. The agency noted fixes Chrysler had made in Jeep recalls and also concluded that driver error, applying the accelerator rather than the brake, was a factor in Grand Cherokee complaints.

Car Wash

Doug Newman, a Milford, Connecticut, car-wash owner, said he has had four sudden acceleration incidents at his businesses since 2000, all involving Jeep Grand Cherokees. “Of the millions of cars I’ve washed, I never had another incident,” Newman said in an interview.

On Jan. 30, a car-wash employee in Albuquerque, New Mexico, was killed after a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee suddenly accelerated and pinned her against a wall, according to a statement a co- worker gave to police investigating the incident.

The co-worker was at the wheel of the Jeep when the accident happened and told police the engine revved when the vehicle was in neutral and took off when he put it into gear.

A similar death in Hamden, Connecticut, in February 2006 prompted the state’s attorney general to ask NHTSA to re- consider Jeep acceleration cases. NHTSA rejected the request in September 2006.

In a statement, Chrysler said studies by NHTSA, Japan’s Ministry of Transportation, Transport Canada and dozens of independent analyses all reached the conclusion that the incidents are caused by driver error.

‘Brakes Always Win’

“Few motor vehicle defect allegations have been more exhaustively investigated and more definitively refuted than claims of sudden unintended acceleration when it involves a shift from park or neutral into a gear,” Chrysler said in a statement.

“Thorough testing to investigate reports of unintended acceleration demonstrates one overriding fact: When the brakes are applied, the vehicle stops; the brakes always win,” the company said in the statement. “Even if the accelerator is nailed to the floor, a driver can stop the vehicle by applying the brakes.”

NHTSA’s repeated denials of petitions seeking new reviews of unintended acceleration have discouraged plaintiffs’ lawyers from reporting new acceleration cases to the agency, said attorney Christopher Brinkley in West Virginia, who has represented plaintiffs in sudden acceleration cases.

“Every time a defect petition was filed with NHTSA and it was denied, it would end up on the defense exhibit list,” said Brinkley, who lost a trial against Chrysler in which NHTSA findings were introduced. “It could absolutely be used against us in court.”

Stepping Up Efforts

LaHood has said in congressional hearings that NHSTA didn’t ignore past complaints and would redouble efforts to consider more causes, such as electronic defects.

NHTSA’s focus remains on Toyota vehicles. The highest death toll for a particular Toyota model was 17 in Camrys. NHTSA records show seven fatalities in Toyota’s Avalon, five in the Lexus ES330, five in the Highlander SUV and three in its Sienna minivan.

“NHTSA’s point of view on this is very similar to ours: The large majority of these cases are closed without finding any evidence of a link to unintended acceleration,” said John Hanson, a spokesman for Toyota’s U.S. unit.

To address the most recent incidents of sudden acceleration, the U.S. will probably need to rewrite the standard for vehicle accelerators, last updated in 1973, and write a new rule requiring a brake override that can shut off uncontrolled acceleration, said Claybrook, the former NHTSA administrator.

‘Kill’ Switch

New rules may also require a “kill” switch in the vehicles for emergency shutdown in sudden acceleration incidents, she said. NHTSA will probably need new staff members or have to hire outside experts, Claybrook said.

NHTSA has two electrical specialists among its 125 engineers and plans to hire one more, LaHood told a congressional committee on Feb. 23. The agency can bring on additional outside expertise as needed, he said at that time.

Toyota is retrofitting seven current models with software that shuts off power from the engine to the drive train if it receives signals both to accelerate and brake, and is considering also adding the software to all “compatible” models, Bob Carter, U.S. group vice president for sales, said this month. The company has said all Toyota models worldwide will be equipped with advanced brake-override systems starting in 2011.

Stock Drop

Toyota ADR shares have lost 8.5 percent of their value this year. Ford has gained 33 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. Toyota shares were little changed on March 12, while Ford rose 3.3 percent. Toyota’s market value is still three times Ford’s.

General Motors Co., Chrysler, Ford, Nissan Motor Co. and European automakers such as Daimler AG have brake override systems in newer models and are increasing their use. Mazda Motor Corp. said it will add the technology as well.

Jim Lentz, Toyota’s president of U.S. sales, told a congressional committee Feb. 23 that the automaker doesn’t know the specific cause for as many as 70 percent of the complaints about sudden acceleration made to a company hotline.

The Japanese automaker has hired Menlo Park, California, testing firm Exponent Failure Analysis Associates to study its designs for other defects that may be causing the incidents, and the automaker is studying continued complaints from vehicles already recalled and fixed.

‘Experience and Technology’

Making a determination of whether a defect in the vehicle was a factor “comes down to both the level of experience and technology that you have in developing the systems to begin with,” Toyota spokesman Hanson said. “Toyota has quite a bit of experience developing these systems and testing them. Toyota does really understand these systems very well,” he said.

Complaints also showed four deaths for Nissan’s Maxima and three deaths for several models from Honda Motor Co., Ford and Chrysler.

Regulators have also included age of drivers as a factor in unintended acceleration cases. An August 2004 report by the National Transportation Safety Board considered the age of the 86-year-old driver when it evaluated a sudden acceleration accident in July of that year that resulted in the death of 10 pedestrians at a Santa Monica, California, farmers market. Ultimately, NTSB said it couldn’t determine age was a factor.

Older Drivers

Among 19 fatal Toyota accidents where the driver’s age is known, 10 were older than 60 and five were older than 80, which may indicate drivers who were more likely to depress the wrong pedal or not brake with enough force. The median age of drivers in fatal accidents in 2008 was 39, according to U.S. fatal accident data. The median age, where the data was available in the Toyota crashes, was 61.
NHTSA will need to fundamentally change its approach to sudden acceleration if the outcome is going to be different than in the 1989 study or subsequent individual probes, said Kam, the former NHTSA official.

“They bought the manufacturers’ response hook, line and sinker,” he said. “The manufacturers said it was impossible -- it couldn’t happen, so the reports by consumers weren’t credible. They were calling it pedal misapplication, even after talking to consumers.”

To contact the reporters on this story: Jeff Green in Southfield, Michigan, at jgreen16@bloomberg.net; Margaret Cronin Fisk in Detroit at mcfisk@bloomberg.net; Angela Greiling Keane in Washington at agreilingkea@bloomberg.net.

Last edited by Dave68; 05-03-2010 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:27 PM
  #87  
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Wow. It looks like the Other Cars section is giving PR&C a run for the money when it comes to emotions overruling ones ability to think rationally! Nothing wrong with being patriotic, but holy xenophobia Batman!
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:24 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Dave68
Here're some facts you may like like to see:
Still looking for the blowing up Corvettes, the deaths attributed to it, along with evidence of a GM cover-up.

Most of us are rational here even in the other cars section which draws the import fans to its threads to kick around how awful the American worker and, it's vehicles are. However, the point has been and, remains a company (Toyota) in modern day has covered up a defect that killed Americans.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:56 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Vette Suspension
However, the point has been and, remains a company (Toyota) in modern day has covered up a defect that killed Americans.
Kinda like the Pinto then.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:56 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Vette Suspension
Still looking for the blowing up Corvettes, the deaths attributed to it, along with evidence of a GM cover-up.

Most of us are rational here even in the other cars section which draws the import fans to its threads to kick around how awful the American worker and, it's vehicles are. However, the point has been and, remains a company (Toyota) in modern day has covered up a defect that killed Americans.
Dude, you have been bashing the Toyota issue and no one is saying it is NOT happening. No one is making it seem like a good thing. Not one person in this thread has tried to make that point. But the fact that you continue to run away from all the supporting evidence that not only myself but others have posted makes you look completely foolish on all accounts. You sit here and spitting fire and brimstone about Toyota's problem, which is fine. I agree it is a disaster. Americans are dying. All I (And the rest of the people in this thread) are pointing out is that you, by denying the hard facts of what is presented, are in fact hypocritical. American cars have "killed" Americans. So why are you only hating on foreign cars?

-Alex
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:02 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by AlexSmith
Dude, you have been bashing the Toyota issue and no one is saying it is NOT happening. No one is making it seem like a good thing. Not one person in this thread has tried to make that point. But the fact that you continue to run away from all the supporting evidence that not only myself but others have posted makes you look completely foolish on all accounts. You sit here and spitting fire and brimstone about Toyota's problem, which is fine. I agree it is a disaster. Americans are dying. All I (And the rest of the people in this thread) are pointing out is that you, by denying the hard facts of what is presented, are in fact hypocritical. American cars have "killed" Americans. So why are you only hating on foreign cars?

-Alex
Hating? You have to be kidding. Is this myspace?


Again, I'm awaiting your evidence of the Corvette's that blow up, kill or injure Americans, and the cover up by GM.

Since we have gone the myspace route. Why you be hatin on American cars then? We know this is a common theme with you.
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:58 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Vette Suspension
Hating? You have to be kidding. Is this myspace?


Again, I'm awaiting your evidence of the Corvette's that blow up, kill or injure Americans, and the cover up by GM.

Since we have gone the myspace route. Why you be hatin on American cars then? We know this is a common theme with you.
What country produces Corvettes?

-Alex
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:43 AM
  #93  
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The real idiots here are the people arguing with Vette Suspension. I took a few debating / skepticism classes in college, and while it wasn't for me, I learned a few things. Mostly just about the tools that these people (usually unknowingly to themselves) use to derail criticism and arguments.

This list about sums it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

For those of you who don't want to read, this is basically the point I'm trying to make.

When you are making a statement, and then someone argues said statement, it's natural for you to counter that with your own argument, in favor of the original statement.

When someone says "My favorite factory z06 color is purple", you might respond with "a Purple z06 ain't possible because that's not a factory color". When the original arguer comes back with "LOL AIN'T IS NOT EVEN A WORD, WE CAN'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY", it's just time to walk away from that argument. You'll never win, and you'll only waste your time and energy trying.
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:07 AM
  #94  
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LMFAO, well I do agree. But you opened this can of worms on yourself, so let's see how ole VS responds to your post. YIKES!

-Alex
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:14 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by cyberslick18
The real idiots here are the people arguing with Vette Suspension.
According to his profile he is a psychiatrist

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Old 05-23-2010, 06:00 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by VorteXGT
Oh sh!!! You're right! I broke out the history books and couldn't believe what I found!

Tonight I'm going to drive my BMW into a lake since BMW is a German company. Then I'm going to light my wife's 350Z on fire (with her in it, because she's 25% German) and watch those Japanese parts burn. Next I'll rip up my Italian leather couch. I'll send pictures of the destruction to my southern Confederate friends with a message "YOU'RE NEXT!", except in a foreign language because I don't want to speak the same language as those filthy English red-coats!

And when I'm done, I'll fill my yard with 1,000 American flags! But when I realize they're all made in CHINA, I'll feel like a dumb***...

like you.
Originally Posted by m48xhp
if i get a lead on some American made American flags, I'll shoot you a PM
woohoo! I found American made USA flags at the HEB Plus in Katy,TX!!!
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:00 PM
  #97  
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I find it remarkable that VS has not responded back yet. Must be banned or something.

-Alex
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:59 PM
  #98  
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Damn ! I bet you cherished both the hug and the steak.
I'm a BOOMER too, 61 years young, but I'm sticking to my Vette, My Cherry '96 Impala SS and my Harley. Screw the rice burners.
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