Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.
Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.
It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.
"This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.
"For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."
He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.
Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.
He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.
"We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.
Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.
But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.
The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.
Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.
"The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.
"It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."
In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.
"For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says. - Herald Sun
You have to remember that the take off advantage from the 4WD system is negated in this mainly high speed track. Its also been shown that a stock GTR isnt a high speed car and easily slaughtered by a stock ZO6/Porsche turbo, yet the Nurburgring GTR was as fast as the Corvette ZR1.
I dont particularly care about slow Porsche mag reviews. Most Porsche reviews had them, especially the GT2 with its tail stepping out on every corner............most often not very good for a fast lap.
Last edited by monaroCountry; 09-30-2008 at 05:38 AM.
now thats funny. kind of obvious I guess, but still worth a chuckle. Nissan went to far with the ringers and Porsche fought back. ultimately, this will be good for the car industry.
The GT-R is an interesting saga. I think more "ringers" will show up, as I wonder if at least a couple/few GT-R owners will run tuned or modd'd cars and present them as stock in 1/4 mile times to prove their expensive new toy is as good as the magazines have said recently. Thats human nature.
But through it all, I like the GT-R more. As an improbable world-beater that can almost keep up with a ZR1, its hard to like a GT-R because it just seems not possible. As a car that is a match for a stock Z06 on a track as long as the Z06 doesn't have sticky tires (short-throw and wanders thread), and runs high 11's stock (but at low trap speeds), the GT-R becomes likeable, because it becomes believable and real. I guess I felt alot like Porsche must have about Nissans ringerized PR campaign. Too much, made it un-credible and un-fun. But, anyway you want to look at it, the big Nissan is an overacheiver. As the view on the car drifts towards realism, I like it more an dmore.
Remember, Monaro, that the ZR1 beat the GT-R in the turns at the ring, and the GT-R ringer made up time on its far faster american competitor on the back straight. So whatever advantage the AWD system gave it, the 'vette was still faster in the turns.
To be fair, Nissan faces a situation where there car probably didn't get the most love from the testers, and probably wasn't tested by people who wanted it to win (obviously) or were bribed to have it win or anything. And for owners of a car, that isn't much fun. The GT-R has gotten plenty of positive bias in its life as well.
Now they know what its like to be a Corvette owner the last 12 months. lol. The Z06 is the forgotten black sheep in all of these comparisons. Constantly the victim of
-drivers who probably don't want it to win (Steve Millen. Any GT-R person that thinks no bias exists there should get a cat scan)
-subjective statements of why the Z06 oculdn't go faster (just didn't feel solid, had to back off, just wasn't confident had to slow down, blah blah blah)
-GMs got no money to bribe anybody these days, lol
-poor tires in stock-to-stock comparisons (hardly something that reflects poorly on the 'vette as a car). And in that one review they ran a mal-aligned car with bad tires... d'oh!
As time goes by, the GT-R will slide from wonderboy in the eyes of reviewers to an old-hat, and it'll stop winning anything. And it'll get some snide comments. And that won't be too much fun for owners. But it'll still be as good of a car as it ever was, justl ike the Z06 is.
Is it 16 secs slower than a 911 turbo around the ring, true-stock to true-stock? Who knows, but is the GT-R a world-beater 7:29 car? I'd bet alot of cash and cars that it isn't a 7:29 car, and I'm not a gambling man.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but did every single C6Z come out at 505hp? I have no idea... but if they didn't that would tell me something. That would tell me that ALL manufacturers foreign and domestic do what they have to do to make money, no magazine test is 100% accurate, no independant private tests are 100% accurate.
To me, proof that Nissan provided ringers to the media would be something like them admiting it at a press conference. Believing any of these "internet facts or proof" is just crazy. Saying that you have proof is insane.
Think about it. Why isn't Nissan seriously responding to any of these 'ringer' claims, porsche nur time claim? I know if I owned Nissan I wouldn't respond either unless I get a lot of complaints from OWNERS of GTR's or if my GTR sales are going bad. Last I checked Nissan GTR owners are as happy as can be (maybe 2 or 3 aren't lol) and GTR sales are STILL doing good. That's kind of amazing even with all the so-called worldwide haters. I don't love or hate the GTR but from the stands it looks like Nissan is having the last laugh with all this free press from the lovers and especially the haters
I highly doubt the GTR will affect the Porsche sales in Germany and C6Z sales in the US. Just like how the Porsche and C6Z never affected R32, R33 or R34 GTR sales in Japan/New Zealand/Australia/Hong Kong still to this day. There's even more GTR's here in S.Korea than there are GT2's or C6Z's combined and most Koreans still hate the Japanese! Not that the GTR is better or anything... it's just not a big deal like it is in the states... everythings gotta be big or a big deal in the states. Since America is a melting pot of sorts.. you also have a Porsche and GTR crowd there as well... maybe that's why so many are taking this so seriously...hmmmmm
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Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring
Sour grapes, or is Nissan really busted? Either way, no standards exist, re. tires, drivers, weather.. so really what difference does it make?
