C6Z vs GT2 vs ACR vs GTR
06-24-2008, 03:45 PM
#81
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I know this is going to come to a shock to many of you..... However, there are a lot of great cars out there. In the last year I have had a Gallardo, 2 Vettes, 997s, Viper, and a couple of Saleens. I would own any of these again! The Z is a great car but go drive a Gallardo, or GT2 or even a GT3 and you will understand. It is A lot more than just times. I have never once had a concern dropping my cars off for service with Lambo or Porsche....
But hey it is your money and if all you are worried about are a second here or there or my car is 3 miles per hour faster than yours then good luck... BTW -- how many of you can make your cars duplicate these numbers produced?
But hey it is your money and if all you are worried about are a second here or there or my car is 3 miles per hour faster than yours then good luck... BTW -- how many of you can make your cars duplicate these numbers produced?
06-24-2008, 05:22 PM
#82
Le Mans Master
I just read the article and was disappointed to say the least. I just don't see my car "sniffing the pavement" when I brake hard. I just don't agree with anything they say. And as an added insult, they think it's the WORST looking to boot.
06-24-2008, 05:45 PM
#83
Drifting
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I see this kind of thing in the mags all the time. I probably will not ever subscribe to another one because of this. If they are going to do tests, then pick the winner from the test results, not opinion. Sheesh.
06-24-2008, 05:51 PM
#84
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Did you know they didnt use the LC and they didnt remove the limiter!!'
that alone will shave atleast .6-.8 sec off the time of the quater and raise the trap by atleast 8-10mph
No one said that the GT-R is a drag racer, but it surely knows how to turn for being 3800+lb and 473hp compare it to the Z06 and you will see how bad *** the car is for the track..
that alone will shave atleast .6-.8 sec off the time of the quater and raise the trap by atleast 8-10mph
No one said that the GT-R is a drag racer, but it surely knows how to turn for being 3800+lb and 473hp compare it to the Z06 and you will see how bad *** the car is for the track..
06-24-2008, 06:01 PM
#85
Drifting
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If you bash C&D, remember they also brought us this. I don't remeber too many Z06 guys upset at the time. 
--> http://youtube.com/watch?v=eMr4QHchkD4
--> http://youtube.com/watch?v=eMr4QHchkD4
When another car such as the GTR comes out with mythical numbers not backed up by the car's characteristics, you will (and should) have a lot of doubters. That is what you have.
People are not balking because they are Vette biased (although they are), but they are saying that the hp/weight of the car does not bear out the claims with the 'ringer' cars that were shipped here.
Cars that are not bought at the dealership or were not produced for sale should be considered ringers. It makes sense to do this so that excitement is generated to increase sales. Next thing you know you buy the car and it's not what you expected. OOps.
Can't blame anyone for doubting, as all the hype is just too much.
06-24-2008, 06:11 PM
#86
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If the GTR turns out to be a lot slower than the ringers, I think we should have a ban on discussing future Nissan vehicles until they actually hit the dealer's lot.
It looks like a lot of time and bandwidth was wasted by discussing this car.
It looks like a lot of time and bandwidth was wasted by discussing this car.
06-24-2008, 09:36 PM
#87
Team Owner
That was by far the weakest 1/4 mile ET and trap I've ever seen for a GT-R. And yet it still beat the Z06 on the road course in spite of weighing 800 lbs more, a stronger example would have been even quicker. That's a very impressive demonstration of the capabilities of the GT-R, too bad it's a pig. The lighter sport version rated at 530 HP should be really nasty. 
06-24-2008, 09:39 PM
#89
Team Owner
The poor trap speeds shown by both the turbo cars is explainable by the test locale.
California has the worst premium fuel in the country. The 91 octane pisswater WILL cause high performance cars to lose power. Turbo cars are by far the most effected. Both the Porsche and the GTR were about 5 mph down on their trap speeds. The Viper and Vette run lower "effective" compression ratios meaning bad fuel isn't going to cause as many problems. A Porsche GT2 runs 9.4:1 static compression + 20 psi of boost = over 20:1 "effective" compression ratio. Turbo cars will run very retarded timing and may even be dropping boost with poor fuel.
Test these cars on 93-94 east cost premium and you'd see better performace out of the turbo cars.
Eitherway, the Z06 did a great job and would still be my choice out of that crowd if I was paying.
California has the worst premium fuel in the country. The 91 octane pisswater WILL cause high performance cars to lose power. Turbo cars are by far the most effected. Both the Porsche and the GTR were about 5 mph down on their trap speeds. The Viper and Vette run lower "effective" compression ratios meaning bad fuel isn't going to cause as many problems. A Porsche GT2 runs 9.4:1 static compression + 20 psi of boost = over 20:1 "effective" compression ratio. Turbo cars will run very retarded timing and may even be dropping boost with poor fuel.
Test these cars on 93-94 east cost premium and you'd see better performace out of the turbo cars.
Eitherway, the Z06 did a great job and would still be my choice out of that crowd if I was paying.
Any smart turbo owner knows fuel is critical and often brings a lil' race gas for the track anyway. I would hate to run crap 91 in my car. Even at stock boost, increased octane will allow the computer to take full advantage of timing for substantial extra HP, I've witnessed this on the dyno many times.
06-25-2008, 09:03 AM
#91
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With Sport Cups on the Z06, it'd probably come very close to the Viper's times. An R compound against the GY runflats is not a fair comparison of the car's capabilities. You've got to at least put the same class of tire on the cars.
In the AX's I participate in, a car with R compound tires (and only that change) is placed in the modified category with cars with lots of other mods to the motor, suspension, etc.
In a 45 second AX, the difference in my times solely due to tires (R compound Goodrich vs Bridgestone Pole Postion S03) is almost 3 seconds. It is all about the tires.
In the AX's I participate in, a car with R compound tires (and only that change) is placed in the modified category with cars with lots of other mods to the motor, suspension, etc.
In a 45 second AX, the difference in my times solely due to tires (R compound Goodrich vs Bridgestone Pole Postion S03) is almost 3 seconds. It is all about the tires.
06-25-2008, 09:21 AM
#92
Pro
As a car buyer, I want to know the true differences between the cars being compared. They've got to be compared on the same track, same time, same driver, same tires.
06-25-2008, 09:31 AM
#94
Le Mans Master
Not me. The only true test of a car vs another car is to have the exact same tires on both cars with the same driver. If not possible, then at least the same type of tires on both cars. Having R compounds on one car and street tires on the other isn't a valid comparison of the car's capabilities. It may represent the stock configuration, but it is not a good comparison.
As a car buyer, I want to know the true differences between the cars being compared. They've got to be compared on the same track, same time, same driver, same tires.
As a car buyer, I want to know the true differences between the cars being compared. They've got to be compared on the same track, same time, same driver, same tires.
No one who does HPDE events or races regularly, uses the stock tires. So tests of stock vs. stock are meaningless. We're not testing tires here. We want to know what the CAR can do. We want to know what the car can do in the REAL world, Not in a magazine.
06-25-2008, 09:50 AM
#95
Race Director
Blame GM for not offering a better tire option on the Z06. These are stock OEM cars, GM should've learned a LONG time ago to offer an optional tire, since they don't they give up time.
Kinda funny, when the Z06 is tested against other cars, like the GT500 or others and wins.....noone complains that the car that lost wasn't running the same tires the Z06 was
BTW another thing, C&D again mentioned the crappy seats.....what do you think will be mentioned as a negative when the ZR1 is tested....yep the seats. Another place GM could've improved the C6 platform, instead of better seat option or higher performance tire, you get bluetooth support.
Kinda funny, when the Z06 is tested against other cars, like the GT500 or others and wins.....noone complains that the car that lost wasn't running the same tires the Z06 was
BTW another thing, C&D again mentioned the crappy seats.....what do you think will be mentioned as a negative when the ZR1 is tested....yep the seats. Another place GM could've improved the C6 platform, instead of better seat option or higher performance tire, you get bluetooth support.
06-25-2008, 09:53 AM
#96
Burning Brakes
Blame GM for not offering a better tire option on the Z06. These are stock OEM cars, GM should've learned a LONG time ago to offer an optional tire, since they don't they give up time.
Kinda funny, when the Z06 is tested against other cars, like the GT500 or others and wins.....noone complains that the car that lost wasn't running the same tires the Z06 was
Kinda funny, when the Z06 is tested against other cars, like the GT500 or others and wins.....noone complains that the car that lost wasn't running the same tires the Z06 was
06-25-2008, 10:04 AM
#97
Pro
Any comparison test (of any kind) requires controlling the variables to the greatest extent possible. This includes the track, the day, the driver, and the tires. Allowing one car to run R tires while the other is on street tires is like having two different drivers - one experienced and one novice.
06-25-2008, 10:23 AM
#98
Drifting
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If the cars ran on the same class of tires, I would have nothing to complain about. But R compounds on one car and street tires on the other is a big no-no when it comes to car comparisons. Had the ACR been on any other street tire (doesn't have to be GY runflats), then OK, but putting Sport Cups on the car and then trying to 'compare' cars is meaningless.
Any comparison test (of any kind) requires controlling the variables to the greatest extent possible. This includes the track, the day, the driver, and the tires. Allowing one car to run R tires while the other is on street tires is like having two different drivers - one experienced and one novice.
Any comparison test (of any kind) requires controlling the variables to the greatest extent possible. This includes the track, the day, the driver, and the tires. Allowing one car to run R tires while the other is on street tires is like having two different drivers - one experienced and one novice.
Out of all the mods, I think tires is the one that should be allowed when testing or comparing performance cars as they make a huge difference. Since all the comparisons seem to always mention the cost of the cars, then simply add the cost of the equiv tires to the test before doing it.
06-25-2008, 11:54 AM
#99
Keep in mind guys. That the Porsche GT2 was on the same tires like the ACR. And the ACR was still 4 seconds faster. IMO, I dont think that the Z06 would of beaten the Porsche GT2 if it sported R compound tires. But, would of ended up in 3rd place in front of the GTR.
06-25-2008, 11:59 AM
#100
Melting Slicks
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Blame GM for not offering a better tire option on the Z06. These are stock OEM cars, GM should've learned a LONG time ago to offer an optional tire, since they don't they give up time.
Kinda funny, when the Z06 is tested against other cars, like the GT500 or others and wins.....noone complains that the car that lost wasn't running the same tires the Z06 was
BTW another thing, C&D again mentioned the crappy seats.....what do you think will be mentioned as a negative when the ZR1 is tested....yep the seats. Another place GM could've improved the C6 platform, instead of better seat option or higher performance tire, you get bluetooth support.
Kinda funny, when the Z06 is tested against other cars, like the GT500 or others and wins.....noone complains that the car that lost wasn't running the same tires the Z06 was
BTW another thing, C&D again mentioned the crappy seats.....what do you think will be mentioned as a negative when the ZR1 is tested....yep the seats. Another place GM could've improved the C6 platform, instead of better seat option or higher performance tire, you get bluetooth support.
Change the tires, change the seats, change the steering wheel...and get rid of the freakin' smell, and now you are talking!
