It is weird why you think Corvette owners are clueless and in some "Corvette closet". When in fact both you and Boost_TT are totally uninformed and lacking the understanding of DSG.
Nobody here said that the DSG is bad. If you read my previous posts, I have wrote that is the best transmission technology in the world.
The discussion was about transmission and drive-line losses.
The DSG won in the BM video because of very fast shifting, not because having less losses.
Think like this: the more complex the transmission, the more losses. DSG is certainly more complex than the T-56 manual. It has way more mechanical and hydraulic components, hence more loses.
Will the DSG faster shifts overcome the extra losses and win against the manual transmission? Yes. That's why is the best.
Also there is no way the GTR has less drive-line losses than the C6 Z06. GTR has 1 more drive-shaft and 2 more differentials. That means significant extra drive-line losses. Any mechanical device has losses. Don't fool yourself that a drive-shaft with 0 degrees angle is a big deal. C6 Z06 has it, most cars have it. The drive-shaft with 0 degrees angle still has losses.
It is sad that the GTR fans cannot have a civilized and intelligent conversation. Writing against the other posters with personal attacks will never make your posts more credible and true.
We both see the plusses and minuses of each setup. They are different ways of doing things, and one will always have some advantage over the other in some way or another.
I have a fair grip on how the DSG operates.
I am not so sure about your comments about the GT-R having more driveline losses due to its extra driveshaft and differential. In this case its YOU who are uninformed and lack understanding but still comment. It seems you are unaware that the GT-R is capable of reducing power to the front all the way down to 0%, which eliminates the drag of the front driveline. Still, neither of us truly know which car has the least drivetrain losses.
These various GT-R threads are fun to kick around but it's all talk until real independent measured testing on the GT-R is performed. Only then will we all REALLY know if the car is anywhere near the threat it is reported so far to be. To be honest I am having a very hard time envisioning its reported performance against its reported power and especially its weight. Maybe there is some serious under-rating or something going on, because I have been racing for 20 years and the laws of physics have held steady the whole way, although a turbo car can run stronger than expected due to greater power under the curve (Grand National, for example, heavier but outran corvettes).
Either way the Corvette is an awesome car and if the GT-R can compete with it that says a lot.
All the way to zero is good, but you cant get rid of ALL of the drag, it's not possible without going RWD. There are still components linked to the front wheels which create drag. Even when there is not power going to them, unless the front drivetrain disconnects itself from the front wheels, there is going to be drag as a result of AWD.
From a stop the GT-R will be impressive, but my opinion hasn't changed since I first saw the stats. Its a GT500 with 4% more power and AWD. It will likely match the GT500 and the C6 coupe/Z51 almost perfectly up to top speed, while being more versatile (AWD will help if you dont put summer tires on it) during winter.
you couldnt be serious, plz dont think this is going to be match for the base/ GT500 which was about similar(lacking rather) to the 400hp ver..
GTR >> Base C6 & GT500
Z06 ~= GT-R (see the ~, i mean Z06 could be up in a lot of areas, but so could the GT-R) lets leave it at that..please dont make ridiculous speculations..
All I will say the amount of mis-information in this thread makes me laugh.
Why are you still active on CF if the forum makes you laugh?
Why hasn't this troll been banned?
On a lighter note.
this month's Motor Trend STILL doesn't have test numbers for the GTR! When and where are we going to get the 1st independent performance numbers for the GTR?
I can't wait to get INDEPENDENT #'s for 1/4 mile, 0-60-0, curb weight, track time.
It is weird why you think Corvette owners are clueless and in some "Corvette closet". When in fact both you and Boost_TT are totally uninformed and lacking the understanding of DSG.
Nobody here said that the DSG is bad. If you read my previous posts, I have wrote that is the best transmission technology in the world.
The discussion was about transmission and drive-line losses.
The DSG won in the BM video because of very fast shifting, not because having less losses.
Think like this: the more complex the transmission, the more losses. DSG is certainly more complex than the T-56 manual. It has way more mechanical and hydraulic components, hence more loses.
Will the DSG faster shifts overcome the extra losses and win against the manual transmission? Yes. That's why is the best.
Also there is no way the GTR has less drive-line losses than the C6 Z06. GTR has 1 more drive-shaft and 2 more differentials. That means significant extra drive-line losses. Any mechanical device has losses. Don't fool yourself that a drive-shaft with 0 degrees angle is a big deal. C6 Z06 has it, most cars have it. The drive-shaft with 0 degrees angle still has losses.
It is sad that the GTR fans cannot have a civilized and intelligent conversation. Writing against the other posters with personal attacks will never make your posts more credible and true.
The fact that you feel you have to attack the civility and intelligence of those who disagree with you proves you are weak in facts to back up your claims. This was no different when you declared there were no cars heavier than the vette that brake better, when the facts show there are many cars that pull off that trick. I have this months Road and Track and in the Road Test Summary there are plenty of cars that are heavier than the Z06 yet stomp it in braking.
The only one here uninformed and lacking understanding is YOU. Where in my post, which you quoted, did I say the DSG has less driveline losses than a manual? I said it comes out on top because of EFFICIENCY. Maybe you can't grasp that efficiency is measured in multiple ways, not just driveline losses. Efficiency in effective launch control, precise and quick shifting, application of power, etc etc. One win by the manual in driveline losses does not make up for all the other hits the manual takes in every other category.
Don't twist my words, and stop acting like others are intentionally passing bad info to discredit them.
The fact that you feel you have to attack the civility and intelligence of those who disagree with you proves you are weak in facts to back up your claims. This was no different when you declared there were no cars heavier than the vette that brake better, when the facts show there are many cars that pull off that trick. I have this months Road and Track and in the Road Test Summary there are plenty of cars that are heavier than the Z06 yet stomp it in braking.
The only one here uninformed and lacking understanding is YOU. Where in my post, which you quoted, did I say the DSG has less driveline losses than a manual? I said it comes out on top because of EFFICIENCY. Maybe you can't grasp that efficiency is measured in multiple ways, not just driveline losses. Efficiency in effective launch control, precise and quick shifting, application of power, etc etc. One win by the manual in driveline losses does not make up for all the other hits the manual takes in every other category.
Don't twist my words, and stop acting like others are intentionally passing bad info to discredit them.
I see that you continue in the same way, making noise.
Again: GTR's GR6 DCT has more losses than a manual, it is less reliable and certainly less fun to drive.
"Just after the third [launch] try, a warning light labeled AWD lit up telling us, "Houston, we have problem". This light show reminded us of Tokyo at night and also brought along a load of heat radiating through the rear center console." http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._r/index2.html
Last edited by TeddyFreddy; 12-02-2007 at 10:10 PM.
Why are you still active on CF if the forum makes you laugh?
Why hasn't this troll been banned?
On a lighter note.
this month's Motor Trend STILL doesn't have test numbers for the GTR! When and where are we going to get the 1st independent performance numbers for the GTR?
I can't wait to get INDEPENDENT #'s for 1/4 mile, 0-60-0, curb weight, track time.
No reason to ban me since I own a Vette. Do you? Keep calling me names....
I see that you continue in the same way, making noise.
Again: GTR's GR6 DCT has more losses than a manual, it is less reliable and certainly less fun to drive.
"Just after the third [launch] try, a warning light labeled AWD lit up telling us, "Houston, we have problem". This light show reminded us of Tokyo at night and also brought along a load of heat radiating through the rear center console." http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._r/index2.html
Blah blah blah blah. I read that same thing, whoopty woo. Try launching your vette a few times at 4500 RPM and see how that works out for you. This board is littered with Corvette part failures, that does not make it a bad car either, no more than a warning light coming on on a single GT-R road test does. The fact that they were able to shut it off and the light went away means the code was not a hard code, and that there was no real damage or the code would come right back.
YES a DSG has more driveline losses than a manual, but the rest of your assertions are pure speculation and opinion which does not make them FACT. If the technology can survive in the 1000+ horse fat pig 4160 pound Veyron then I think it will be fine in the less than 500 horse and 300 pound lighter GT-R.
I see that you continue in the same way, making noise.
Again: GTR's GR6 DCT has more losses than a manual, it is less reliable and certainly less fun to drive.
"Just after the third [launch] try, a warning light labeled AWD lit up telling us, "Houston, we have problem". This light show reminded us of Tokyo at night and also brought along a load of heat radiating through the rear center console." http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._r/index2.html
So just cause it gagged on their 3rd try means its less reliable?? Just cuz soo many chevy tops few off, GM makes the least reliable car bodies?
Did it break? no it just faulted and was reset as soon as the car restarted which means its quite solidly built. It knowns when to prevent any harm done to the car..
Anyhow i think it would still be fun to drive and have a kick equal to the Z..and I cant wait to get my hands on one..
So just cause it gagged on their 3rd try means its less reliable?? Just cuz soo many chevy tops few off, GM makes the least reliable car bodies?
Did it break? no it just faulted and was reset as soon as the car restarted which means its quite solidly built. It knowns when to prevent any harm done to the car..
Anyhow i think it would still be fun to drive and have a kick equal to the Z..and I cant wait to get my hands on one..
OK, it didn't break. But it is still a strong signal about possible reliability problems IMHO. Also about much trumpeted "modifying the GTR to ridiculous HP"
I would not buy a first year GTR no matter what. Too much completely new technologies, especially the GR6 DCT transmission.
As for mentioning the Veyron in the same phrase as the GTR, that's a BIG stretch. The development of the Veyron had almost unlimited funds. The Ricardo built transmission is in a world of its own. When the Veyron sells for $1400K and the GTR for $70K guess who's transmission is better and more reliable.
I agree with Boost_TT, you guys need to get out of the Corvette closet and open your eyes to other technologies. Here is a video testing and demonstrating the DSG vs 6 speed manuals with "expert" manual tranny drivers:
Why are you guys comparing a 7:50 time when they didn't do the supertest? The supertest is when they go for time. The test they got the 7:50 was just driving the car admiring what it has and not pushing its limits to the extreme! This was even mentioned.
when the car gets tested by SA in full out speed test, then you can talk, till then the 7:38 sec is still the main one to talk about.
And if you guys really call Run flats good tires, you make me laugh. Because thats what the GTR had.
You dont invite Horst von Saurma to do an impersonation of driving Miss Daizy. The Nissan GTR as hyped up as it is wont get any special treatment from this particular jurno and Ring expert. You can bet your pretty penny that Saurma drives any car to its absolute potential. Its interesting that a Ring expert being 12 seconds adrift of Nissans Japanese driver.
Personal attacks/hostility toward others
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but it's all talk until real independent measured testing on the GT-R is performed. Only then will we all REALLY know if the car is anywhere near the threat it is reported so far to be. To be honest I am having a very hard time envisioning its reported performance against its reported power and especially its weight. Maybe there is some serious under-rating or something going on, because I have been racing for 20 years and the laws of physics have held steady the whole way, although a turbo car can run stronger than expected due to greater power under the curve (Grand National, for example, heavier but outran corvettes).
