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Old 07-06-2006, 07:52 PM   #1
reddevl
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Default Will not be attending any more track/a-cross events further on.

I will not be attending any more road/track/a-cross events further on hosted by NCCC or open track day events setup privately.

Today i have recieved a email from a member on corvetteforum that several members whether on corvetteforum or non-members of the forum "have voiced concern about some other track events I have been to".

These concerns were about the open track day publicly held by WHRRI and the HPDE event held at grattan recently.

I have screwed up by not attending the HPDE drivers meeting held at grattan. I personally asked some of the attendees whats the passing rule for intermediate group, the only answer i got was "passing on the straight away". on the first lap i did not realize that it was a warmup lap and no passing was allowed and unfortunately i broke the rule and passed 3 cars on the straight away, after the session was complete i was approached by the event manager and i quickly apologized and i said "i am sorry i screwed up". I even went on to further finding who ever i could that was in that session especially a old gen porsche as i went up and personally apologized. The day then started to turn out to be a nightmare for me, as complaints rolled that i was tailing the cars too close, which by then i maintained a minimum of 4-5 car lengths for the rest of the 2 sessions i was on. I met a very nice person with a c4 that rode with me as a passenger and told me that my lines where bad and i am overcooking the tires and i appreciate his honesty for this because my lines did suck and i was overcooking the tires. I even asked him was i trailing the cars too close he said i was doing fine. I realized the day wasnt going to get any better so i just made my 2 hour drive back home.

Now to the open public track day at waterford. I have come to a realization that i dont know where the hell i screwed up or did i even screw up. i went off the track twice on the straight away at under 40mph due to overcooked brakes and couple of cars spun out right in the middle of the track twice during the same session and people are readily concerned about my driving . i realized my brakes were a problem and went home for the day but the group i was with is the 3rd group out of 5 groups in total and i let all the cars pass a head of me.

and the final per se of all my ranting is, it was nice meeting all of you, i am sorry i went from becoming a total stranger to a total nightmare to you. I really appreciate and thank every one that stepped forward that helped me through my exciting days of all the events i been to. I will never be at any NCC or Open track days that are held privately by members on this forum. Its better off i would spend any free days i can at the public events where i stay "public" and not a "concern".

EDIT:
i just wanted to know why no body has even bother to come up and talk to me about the so called "screwups" of mine at WHRRI other than Chris(69autoxer) about my lines and shifting mess ups and Ron(another nice person i have met at the rainy track event at grattan) who gave me a few tips and advices on my screwups. I especially wont and dont want to be involved in any sort of group activity where people talk bad about me even with out my concern.

Last edited by reddevl; 07-06-2006 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:05 PM   #2
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Sorry to hear all about your problems Prasad, I hope you reconsider & if you do my only suggestion is that you get an experienced driver to show you the lines on the track. I know that once you learned these your driving would be better & you car would also handle alot better (brake fade & tire wear). there's more to driving than just stomping on the pedals, I'm learning that myself as I get back into the driving events. I might also suggest running a few auto crosses, these are more technical events that you can learn alot about your car.
Whatever you decide, I hope you enjoy yourself & stay safe.

Jim
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Vette_93
Sorry to hear all about your problems Prasad, I hope you reconsider & if you do my only suggestion is that you get an experienced driver to show you the lines on the track. I know that once you learned these your driving would be better & you car would also handle alot better (brake fade & tire wear). there's more to driving than just stomping on the pedals, I'm learning that myself as I get back into the driving events. I might also suggest running a few auto crosses, these are more technical events that you can learn alot about your car.
Whatever you decide, I hope you enjoy yourself & stay safe.

Jim
Hi jim,
unfortunately at this point its not a question about my driving prowess or how good/bad my lines are. i have become a threat to some off the people out there. I never get discouraged when people tell me i screwed up, some of the members here went out of there way to help my lines. I thank every one again.

EDIT:
Jim after reading your signature it was you who rode with me as a passenger at the recent event at grattan. by the way this was you from my statement.
I met a very nice person with a c4 that rode with me as a passenger and told me that my lines where bad and i am overcooking the tires and i appreciate his honesty for this because my lines did suck and i was overcooking the tires. I even asked him was i trailing the cars too close he said i was doing fine.

Last edited by reddevl; 07-06-2006 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 07-06-2006, 08:21 PM   #4
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Prasad,
I wasn't at any NCCC events with you but we did meet at Grattan in May at the private track rental. From your post, I gather that you got in over your head at the recent events. I am willing to wager that you started going too fast too soon. It happens when you start going to track events with a high powered car. If I may, I would suggest a couple of things to you, if you enjoy track events and want to continue them in the future.

1. Attend a professional high performance driving school. There are many to choose from. Skip Barber, Jim Russell, Bob Bondurant, and so on.
2. Get a lower powered car. A 450+hp Corvette is a bad car to learn proper technique on. I know that you don't want to hear it but a small RWD car is a much better place to learn. (I started doing track days in a Corvette myself but then switched to Miatas, so I know where you're coming from.) Learning to drive a small underpowered car will teach you the fundamentals and conservation of momentum.

That's just my 2 cents. Take it for whatever you will.

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Old 07-06-2006, 08:29 PM   #5
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you couldnt have said it any better matt, i probably did get way over my head but i still want to know why not let me know about things especially about waterford before u go off and tell some one about it. because at this point i have become questionable for my actions for a few hours of fun time.

like i said its not about my driving skills any longer as i just use my driving skill as a reference to how many people helped me improve my line better. I am not good, forget it i am not where near being good. I will also take up your advice on attending there driving schools.

oh well i can still enjoy my self at public open track day events. like i said at this point i would rather stay "public" and not a "concern".
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Old 07-06-2006, 09:02 PM   #6
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Prasad, dont' sweat it ! Whoever these idiots are that are talking smack behind your back must be Formula 1 caliber level drivers!

I would not let their actions hold you from attending events. Go out and have fun! I doubt any of them drove like pros from day 1! People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks!
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Old 07-06-2006, 09:04 PM   #7
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That is crap, stay signed up for Grattan.
You just need more practice and patience. I will ride with you, and do everything I can to help you learn the line, and the car.
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Old 07-06-2006, 11:22 PM   #8
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Hey Prasad,
I met you at the CCM meeting a couple of months ago with Chris and Bruce. Going to venues like Waterford and Grattan it's hard to be spot on without ever being there. It just takes some time to develop and find the right line. I am sure there are people that have been there plenty of times that still have the same issues. Believe me when I tell you I know what it's like to get excited and really having alot of fun when when something un-expected occurs and leaves you in a less than deisreable position. Ask anyone who helped dig me out of the Turn 6 gravel trap when I flew off of 6 going way to damn fast. My personal advice would be to visit some less technical and more driver friendly courses like maybe gingerman. That was the first road course that I did extended lapping and we were just fine. Gingerman also lends itself to more forgiving in the event of an off course excursion. I wouldent get discouraged. Just focus on improving you driving and always keep in mind that your car has limits just as any of us have as drivers. The driving school is a good idea. Just learn the car,brakes,and the tires. Like anything there is always a learning curve. Take all the knowledge you can and enjoy yourself. My recent expirience leads me to think as soon as you dont respect the car or the track that serious things can happen real quick. Just bear that in mind when you on track and with any luck you should do just fine.
AL

Last edited by AUTO_X_AL; 07-06-2006 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 07-06-2006, 11:33 PM   #9
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300cawd,

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, but to set the record straight, neither one of the events you attended were NCCC sanctioned. The only NCCC event in Grattan will be in October. NCCC hosts a driving school at Gingerman every April, focusing, mostly, on new drivers. It includes a classroom session, a lead and follow session by seasoned road racers, and plenty of track sessions with instructors riding with you. You would have loved this school with plenty of friendly people to help and give you advice. You should give us a try next year. CCM, an NCCC club also puts on a similar school at Waterford Hills. We all started somewhere, don't let it get to you, go out there and enjoy your car, have a great time and pick up tips here and there as you go.

Rene
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Old 07-06-2006, 11:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Rene500Z06
300cawd,

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, but to set the record straight, neither one of the events you attended were NCCC sanctioned. The only NCCC event in Grattan will be in October. NCCC hosts a driving school at Gingerman every April, focusing, mostly, on new drivers. It includes a classroom session, a lead and follow session by seasoned road racers, and plenty of track sessions with instructors riding with you. You would have loved this school with plenty of friendly people to help and give you advice. You should give us a try next year. CCM, an NCCC club also puts on a similar school at Waterford Hills. We all started somewhere, don't let it get to you, go out there and enjoy your car, have a great time and pick up tips here and there as you go.

Rene
To this point that school has helped me more than anything else. Danny Kellermeyer is a hell of a racer and an awesome teacher. This year we got 6 parade laps with voice instruction around the whole course taking turns following Danny. That was a ton of fun and I would highly reccommend attending if the oppertunity arises.
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Old 07-06-2006, 11:44 PM   #11
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Prasad,
Don't let the rantings of a few old, crusty retiree's who live and die for their cars discourage you from coming out and enjoying your car!! I started autox/roadracing last summer with CCM and NCCC. There are, and always will be, those who think everyone else is doing it "wrong". SCREW THEM!! Unless you were a complete ass (and this thread's responses seem to say no), then come out and learn from some of the best drivers out there. CCM and NCCC events are all I do; and the members are nothing but first rate. One thing I can add though; check your ego at the door; you won't be needing it. Watch, listen, learn your car, and the fun never stops!

Jamie
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Old 07-07-2006, 03:14 AM   #12
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guys thanks for all the responses. i will still have my conference call with ken and daniele. I want to get to the bottom of this for the only fact to not have my name end up as bad apple.

I definitely do not have anger or hatred to those who liked me and even for those who didnt like me.

Some where down the line it got personal....
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Old 07-07-2006, 08:50 AM   #13
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Prassad,

Let me try to get this all cleared up.

You missing the drivers meeting was not the end of the world. Yes you did pass under the Yellow, a few people made mention, and I talked to you about it. If anything I should have made sure I went over the rules with you before you went out on the track.

Throughout the day however I had more and more drivers come up and express concern over your driving style.

Not being slow, but being dangerous, passing in corners where passing is not allowed, sliding through just about every corner in the back half of the track, going off course, etc...

First and foremost, none of us out there are experts, myself included. I tried to set you up with some other people to go out for rides and drive alongs.

The most dangerous thing you can do is try to drive beyond your abilities and this has more of an effect on other drivers than it does on you. We are all out there in our personal cars but you were driving beyond your abilities.

You also passed a few people on the INSIDE at turn 1, which is hardly a place for anyone who is not truly racing wheel to wheel to do at 80+mph.

You came off the track saying it was your brakes, tires, etc...

I guess my mistake was I tried to sugarcoat things a bit too much in trying to get you ride alongs and others to drive with you. I just should have said you need to slow down, period.

I should have been more clear that you needed to slow down or just taking a slower pace.

We watched you throughout the day and the corner workers even voiced their concern.

You got smoother as the day went on but as soon as you did a few smooth laps you went banzai again

Listen, its nothing personally against you. We're not out there to set any track or lap records. Everyone needs to start at someplace and if you go into the Autocross and Roadracing section a 500hp car is generally not the best place for a brand new driver to start out.

As I said, I did have alot of people come upto me, including some people who worked the Waterford event you were at.

Yes, I did PM BB69 too and told him my suggestion was, and this is in everyones best interest, was that you have an instructor with you.

Road racing is not drag racing and you'll find the crowd alot more humble. You've got a nice car and obviously the financials to make it what it is, you'd get alot more enjoyment out of it by attending some classes or hiring a personal instructor for the day.

I told BB69 that, if you were interested in coming to one of our events again I'd suggest you get an instructor.

There is nothing wrong with that its just something new that has to be learned.

It never got personal, never was meant to be. You do have to realize that this was not a few people coming up and saying something, it was the majority, including the corner workers. We tried as best we could to get other people in the car with you to slow you down a bit, learn the line, and let you build back up speed but your adrenaline seemed to get the best of you in alot of cases instead of listening to the advice that was being given.

I PM'd BB69 as a heads up for everyones safety including your own, you'd do far better and get more enjoyment having an instructor than heads/cam/brakes, etc.

Thats just the way it is and no other way to put it.

Your more than welcome to come back, but again, you really should have some instruction, do some reading, and take a slower pace or hook up with someone on here with some experience to ride along with you.

You were pretty excited that day and that excitement got the best of you

I took alot of stock in what you told me when you first arrived. That Ken(L98Terror) had taken you out, shown you the line, and you had a good grasp on things.

I guess there is a good lesson in this, I should get better at being the "Bad Daddy" and I could have probably saved alot of this confusion but the general impresson we got was that you were more concerned about blaming the car, the brakes, tires, etc rather than the driving style.

We did try to point out your mistakes as best we could but as I said your excitement and adrenaline seemed to get the best of you everytime you got behind the wheel.

Thats why I sent Mike out with you(The guy in the Jetta), Mike is a very patient and smooth driver. He is very smart in his driving style and a pretty calm guy. Even after going out he still voiced his concern about there being more of an interest in going fast than going smooth which leads to accidents.

As far as trailing cars too close, if he told you that, then he was incorrect. The guy in the Porsche did come upto me and say you apologized and all was good. I had to talk to a couple of drivers that day.

Its a practice day, no reason to be bumper to bumper. Please understand, this was not just one or two people, it was nearly the entire group. An accident was going to happen, there was no doubt of that. I was getting to the point of having to sit down with you but you came off the track after going off in corner 9 and said you were done for the day. I left it at that and planned on bringing it up with you if you were interested in attending again.

Figured it was better to speak to you about it outside of the enviroment about it if you decided to return.

There is nothing I'd like to see more than is for someone in your position to get some solid seat time and become a better driver. Its in everyones best interest especially your own.

I believe you still have my cell from the Grattan emails, if you like give me a call.
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Last edited by NoOne; 07-07-2006 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 07-07-2006, 10:14 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by y2k02c5
Prasad, dont' sweat it ! Whoever these idiots are that are talking smack behind your back must be Formula 1 caliber level drivers!

I would not let their actions hold you from attending events. Go out and have fun! I doubt any of them drove like pros from day 1! People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks!
The Hell with them, if they can't talk to you face-to-face then I'd just forget about it.
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Old 07-07-2006, 10:25 AM   #15
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Guys,
I think this thread just shows how easy things can get out of hand online. The people involved are talking to each other. Read the note from NoOne above, he did talk to Prasad.

We are working through this and it will be taken care of. Please keep in mind that the ONLY reason any if this has come up is because we are all concerned about the safety of people participating in track events.

I will tell you now that I should have handled this differently from the start by calling Prasad and talking in person before sending an email. But, we are in direct communication now, and I expect this to have a positive ending.

Prasad,
Daniele and I will contact you as soon as we both have time at work.

Ken
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Old 07-07-2006, 01:39 PM   #16
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Guys,
I think this thread just shows how easy things can get out of hand online. The people involved are talking to each other. Read the note from NoOne above, he did talk to Prasad.

We are working through this and it will be taken care of. Please keep in mind that the ONLY reason any if this has come up is because we are all concerned about the safety of people participating in track events.

I will tell you now that I should have handled this differently from the start by calling Prasad and talking in person before sending an email. But, we are in direct communication now, and I expect this to have a positive ending.

Prasad,
Daniele and I will contact you as soon as we both have time at work.

Ken
ken replied to u sent the same copy to no one.

i am keeping every one in the same loop.

edit:
noone:
unless u have seen me pass any one or even ask the two passengers that rode with I DID NOT PASS any through the turns. i am not that dumb enough to realize where passing was allowed and not allowed. also btw mike with jetta did not volunteer to ride with me, i offered him to take a spin with me and this all happened in what less under 25 laps i was on the track. I think i know who started dishing out all the complaints and from now on i realize who and who not to take with me in my car.
please do read my pm cause some people that have told u i was driving harshly are just being total whiners. Jim if u could please take few mins of ur time and please post the video that u shot that shows HOW harsh i was driving. there is a video proof to all this and jim can clear it up.

Last edited by reddevl; 07-07-2006 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:32 PM   #17
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Prasad...Did I see everything personally? No I did not. Everyone is pretty decent at these events and I don't believe anyone had any reason to lie.

The best I can tell you is I double checked with the corner workers on how you were doing because ultimately it is my concern how the other drivers are doing on the track.

I did watch you through the back straights and its not only my opinion but others that if you did not have AH you would have left the course on more than one occasion.

There is a huge difference between DRIVING fast and BEING fast.

I did ask Mike to drive with you, or I had suggested he drive with you, I forget which but him and I did have a conversation about it.

We just want to see everyone be safe. Taking a few steps back and not only learning the lines but the ultimate grip level of your car without the Active Handling intervening, braking points, etc would make it a lot more fun and a lot safer also.
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Old 07-07-2006, 02:32 PM
 
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