Neo Fender

I’ve been with the forum for some time but I usually don’t post in this section. I have a ’79 that I’ve owned for about a year now. The best way I can describe it is that it’s a 90,000-mile driver. It has its share of leaks and odds and ends that don’t work but I’ve already fixed some of the nickel and dime problems. It still has its original engine that still runs strong. It also has its original paint, which is its weakest point.

When I attend car shows, I see plenty of restored cars that make me envious. I’m torn as to whether or not I want to do a complete restoration on mine. Granted it’s “only” a ’79 but I’m assuming that in five years or so, their value will rise. While I’d love to have a mid year or a ’68 – ’75 roadster, the ’79 is the only thing I could find that would fit my budget.

One of my criteria for buying a Corvette is that it be drivable so that I could immediately enjoy it. I have a family, job and attend school so time and money are major factors. I figure that doing a full restoration would take a nicely running Corvette off the road for two plus years. I belong to a local club that takes trips and cruises throughout the year and I would miss doing that.

Are there any worthy “non NCRS” restorations? I’m not really interested in competing the car (except for maybe local, non NCRS shows) so is there more than one way to restore a Corvette?

How much $$$ and how many man hours should I expect to make a driver look better than it did when it left St. Louis 23 years ago?

Should I just forget it, drive the car and hold out for a perfect (and expensive) restored car?

Thanks for your advice/opinions.

JmpnJckFlsh

In my opinion, Neo, there are ONLY NCRS restorations. Before you jump to the conclusion that I'm snob that doesn't approve of other than NCRS cars, let me say that the word "restoration" means to return to its former condition, i.e. as it came from the factory.

Purchase and installation of aftermarket wheels, special paint jobs, mono-spring suspensions, etc is NOT restoration. Some folks on this forum will argue that it IS restoration, but it has always been called customizing. A car cannot be "restored" to a condition in which it never existed originally. All NCRS cars are not high-dollar, body-off restorations...many cars are not restored at all. It only means that the cars have been maintained as faithful examples of what the Saint Louis factory was turning out. Therefore, a "restoration" can not "improve" a Corvette's looks better than when it left Saint Louis...that would be "over restoration". :D Your car may fit into the NCRS category already; it just may not Top Flight the first time out.

If it were me, I would be very selective in getting the most "bang for my restoration buck" in deciding which "restoration" items to do. Only if I could do the work myself, and only if the parts cost were modest, would I do "restoration" projects. Think of it as a polishing process. The restoration cost for a full blown body off restoration would be about the same order of magnitude for your car as it would for a 68 big block car. The rub is that a restoration would increase the value of both the 68 and the restoration considerably. Unfortunately, I don't believe you would be able to get the restoration cost out of your car soon, maybe never. Don't take this wrong; I am simply talking about the incremental cost of the restoration over what the car would be worth anyway. I guess I now believe in enjoying Corvettes and trading up whenever possible, rather than getting bogged down in total restoration.

Also, if you enjoy driving the car, this approach would definitely be better because you will have the car to drive while these small inexpensive projects are being accomplished.

Neo Fender

I guess my perception of a restoration is screwed up. I've seen some great cars with reproduction stickers under the hood, sanitary engine bay, etc. When you ask about NCRS, they get a confused look in their eyes. I don't know how particular NCRS standards are. For example, if I paint my frame with POR-15, or if my half shafts are painted silver, is that a restoration no-no?

My car is not a basket case but it is NOT a survivor either. Decisions would have to be made about "what color should this be?" etc.

Good point. I think that statment alone answers many of my questions.

Robert N

I have the same issues with a 1970 LT-1 that sat in 98% original condition for 23 years. While the car is rare, I bought it for the pleasure of driving and owning one. I will restore (no aftermarket items, only using parts available when it rolled out of the showroom) over time. Since I do not plan to "shoe" the car, or at least try to win awards, the work is done for me. There is a limit to the $$ I will spend based on the future value of the car and what I paid for it. The goal is to breakeven. I would rather leave some things undone for the next buyer, and get a few less $$ when selling. That gives the new owner a chance to make the car his/her own and offers the car a slightly lower price.

Easy Mike

I agree with Chuck; there really isn't a "non-NCRS" restoration. You can 'build' your Corvette any way you want and suit yourself, but to restore your Corvette, you take it back to state it was in when it left St. Louis. Buy the Assembly Instruction Manual (AIM) for '79. When you get it, sit and study it. Review the drawings, check the part numbers, look at the drawing revision dates, etc. Get the NCRS judging manual for '79 and study it. Compare the information you find with the current condition of your car and determine what she'll need for a restoration. Once you know what the undertaking will comprise, you can decide whether to restore. Good luck.
:)

JmpnJckFlsh

The reproduction stickers are necessary for restoration since you can't get the originals anymore. To the casual observer that never saw a Corvette before, the reproductions may look "exactly" factory, but to those who have seen the original stickers, there may be varying degrees of authenticity of the reproductions. Sometimes, you have to do the best you can with what you can get. :D

One of the goals of NCRS is to restore Corvettes to EXACTLY the same appearance as the cars had when they left Saint Louis. For example, there may be extra effort to make sure there are "runs" in the frame paint, and that the weatherstrip adhesive is applied sloppily because that's the way it was done at the factory.

NCRS members take great pride in knowing HOW it should look if it were fresh from Saint Louis. Even within NCRS, however, there are restorers that can't bring themselves to make a car look WORSE than it could have just because that's the factory did it. If you are neurotic, you begin to rationalize that "it could have happened on a good day" to justify making it look nicer. :D :D

As far as using POR-15 on your frame, there is no problem using any paint you want on your frame SO LONG AS it has the correct gloss and appearance. You can't buy the original frame paint anymore, so you are going to have to use something different. Silver paint on your half shafts? Naw, silver paint was never used on half shafts at Saint Louis, so that item would receive a minor deduct. You can have a number of such deducts, and still receive the top award.

On the other hand, none of the standards of NCRS judging are compulsory for membership...the standards only apply when you submit a car for Flight Judging. In doing so, you are saying "I believe that my car is original enough in appearance and function to its original new state that it will be judge well against NCRS standards." Then, there is no in-between...it has to look like it did when it left Saint Louis; the summation of all the deductions will objectively determine to what degree that goal has been met, if at all. It the car has effectively met the standards, it will be awarded according to how well it has met the standards...Top Flight, Second Flight, Third Flight.

67HEAVEN

If the day ever comes that I submit mine, Chuck, do they have a Tenth Flight? :jester

P.S. I guess that's sorta like "still-on-the-tarmac". :lol:

3X2-427

Granted it’s “only” a ’79 but I’m assuming that in five years or so, their value will rise.

In the same vein as Chucks response the track record for post, say, 71s is abysmal. In the past one could expect a five year old to have reached resale bottom and be on the rise, this hasn't been true since the smog generation of Corvettes.
You can enhance your Corvettes appearance and enjoy a much better looking local show car without succumbing to the expense of a full restoration, unfortunately the single setback to that plan is the paint, the single highest impact improvement is also the most expensive.]
You can paint and detail your undercarriage by simply setting aside a few hours each week and clean a section then paint it, it does not have to be done at one time. The same is true of suspension and interior for that matter.

. I figure that doing a full restoration would take a nicely running Corvette off the road for two plus years.

Not necessarily, A Corvette shop , if operated honestly could achieve a complete restoration in several months but it is very costly.

so is there more than one way to restore a Corvette?

There are many avenues available to refurbish your Corvette. It doesn't sound as if a restoration suits your needs

How much $$$ and how many man hours

Too many variables to answer. I will complete a 65 350 convertible for a customer in Chicago. The car had NO redeeming characteristics other than it was a mid year convert, the first part purchased was a new frame 4k, 6k in paint....getting the idea and I do NOT mark up parts. This restoration will top 40k for a car that is worth, what, 38 to the right guy on its best day
It is my opinion that you can seldom perform a complete restoration and end up with much equity in your car unless it truly is a rare example, and I work VERY cheap. Understand that I am not being self promotional here, I work on nothing newer than 72 with the only exceptions being limited work for friends.
Best of luck :cheers:


[Modified by 3X2-427, 9:43 PM 5/6/2002]

JmpnJckFlsh

Now, THAT was a dang pithy post, Jer. :smash: :cheers:


Ummmm....No, Hvn, there is a minimum requirement hurtle to make Third Flight. If your car doesn't make that minumum hurtle, then it falls in the "nether regions" inhabited by pretenders, wannabees, and usedtabees. Well, at least until somebody has pity on the poor thing and pours money by the five gallon bucket loads into it to transform it into a fairy princess again. Old Corvettes are like hard currency, they never die...they just wait to be resurected by somebody that appreciates them. :D :D :D

67HEAVEN

:lol: :lol: :lol: When I'm dead and gone, Chuck, they can pour milk and honey into her for all I'm gonna care. :D

JmpnJckFlsh

Exactly what I was thinking, Hvn. The Corvette hobby could be described by laws like those in thermodynamics...Corvettes always flow to a place of higher money (Awww, man listen to those customizers bitch, complain, and gnash their teeth), and generally their state will ultimately go back to where they have the most dollar value...factory original. :lol: :lol:

I know you would never do this ;) , but if someone f***s up an old Corvette so bad it can't be reclaimed, then their heirs will sell it to someone cheap and the scavengers will sell every useable part of the carcass for restoration of other old 67 Vettes. Fiberglass monospring suspensions and coil over conversions will most likely end up on the trash heap.

In that regard the Corvette hobby is like the "wild kingdom" or the desert ecosystem...nothing goes to waste. EVERYTHING will be put to good use and consumed to maintain the ecosystem. Hee, Hee, BwahHAHAHAHAHAhahaha. :lol: :lol: :lol:

3X2-427

Ahem.....is pithy a good thing :jester

67HEAVEN

......and in the meantime, I'll be driving the best of both worlds - classic styling combined with the latest in handling and engine technology.

Now if someone wants to get their grimy little palms on ol' 67HEAVEN after I'm gone, so's they can drag out some crummy ol' 40....45....50....55-year-old suspension design, and spend long evenings by the campfire tap...tap...tapping pretend original numbers all over the place....hope they have a ball.

After all the fun I'll have driving a "real" car, why should I object to whatever fun they're gonna have up there on the trailer. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

P.S. After the indoctrination I've put my son through, don't be staying up nights looking for a quick sale after my funeral. :D


[Modified by 67HEAVEN, 10:38 PM 5/6/2002]

JmpnJckFlsh

Why, of course, Jer! :jester

"Pithy" is not to be confused with "pissy": pithy means it consists of or abounds in substance and point (relevance). :D :D :D

A very complete explanation. I believe that has to be maybe the best post I have ever heard you make on any board. :cheers:

67HEAVEN

P.P.S. I just wrote it into my will, Herr Doktor. My son is required to give you at least one ride in ol' 67HEAVEN, just so's you'll know what you've been missin'. :jester

JmpnJckFlsh

Not to worry, Hvn, I am more inclined to seek the "low hanging fruit" with cheaper long term potential. :D :D

Your son will grow tired of it in a few years, and there will be a waiting scavenger only too happy to offer him about what you paid Vette Brakes for that suspension. Might even be that "Red Green's Corvette Emporium" Macsters keeps pumping. Hee, Hee :lol: :lol:

This story reminds me of a thirty-something gal up the street. We got to talking about car restoration at a neighborhood Christmas party. Well, she told her story about inheriting her ole divorced, deceased dad's 80something Camaro, and paying to have it restored just like new...decals and everything. Well, compassion and social tact prevented me from telling her, "Hon, so what? You've spent all that money to restore that thing for sentimental reasons, and guess what...now, it's a piece of doo that looks brand new, but its still just as bad as when it was brand new." :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Robert N

Personally, I was looking for matching numbers only to make sure the car was the "Real McCoy" given what I was buying. On a later model, I would probably modify it for performance and driveability while retaining the classic sytling. That notwithstanding, while the 1970 will be restored to factory improved with changes to urethane bushings, better shocks, etc. The car will maintain the ability to easily (if not expensively) be returned to complete factory specs. I want to maintain as much value as possible, but still be able to enjoy the car for what it can do...heck, a 1970 LT-1 small block with modern suspension, talk about a rush!

3X2-427

wireless
Probably THE absolute best small block engine Chevrolet ever put into production, (or anyone else for that mayyer) was the 70 LT1.
A hypothetical small block was constructed using only the best components, (with a target of all around performance and drivability), without consideration to expenditure, it turned out to be a virtual clone of your engine.
No engine modifications should be necessary, you already have the best
jer

67HEAVEN

Jer,

I've always had a warm spot in my heart for those Mighty Mouse Motors.
:jester
:seeya

Mac

Sounds more like a Honda to me (no fart pipe) :jester