JmpnJckFlsh

What are the pros/cons of prelubing a fresh engine before start-up, and how much is enough/too much? My plan was to use an electric drill with an adapter to drive the oil pump to prelube the engine before start-up, but some worrying doubts are entering my mind.

When rebuilt engines are assembled, the camshaft lobes are typically covered with a special black "break-in" grease before the cam is installed. When you prelube the engine before start-up, doesn't the oil streaming through the engine at close to full capacity "wash" this grease off the camshaft? Doesn't loss of this grease coating compromise a trouble-free break-in of the camshaft and lifters?

clem zahrobsky

pre lube because the cam compound will not wash off. what is more important is to fill the carb float bowls so you do not have to crank the engine waiting for the fuel to get there.make sure to pre oil the rockers ***** if you are using stock chevy type. always change the oil filter after the breakin session because the cam compound will plug the oil filter after the oil cools off

JmpnJckFlsh

Hi Motor, I was hoping you, JohnZ, or SWC Duke, would drop in here and help this nervous novice out. Running the engine is still a ways off, but at least I won't be worrying about it until then.

Based on your advice, I plan to pull the valve covers and pour a quart of oil slowly over the loosened rockers, finish filling the crankcase, adjust the rockers, reinstall the valve covers, and then prelube the heck out it to try an wash the inside of the engine good with clean oil. Or, should I adjust the rockers after the prelube? Will the prelube pump up the lifters?

You must not be able to sleep either. :D

clem zahrobsky

if they are hyd set the rockers before prelube because you may not be able the preload the lifters after pressurizing the oil. also with hyd only install the pushrod you are working on because if you install them all and as you turn the engine over to adj the valves you will collaps some of the lifters that are not already adjusted and when you get to that lifter you may not get the proper adjustment. if they are solid does not make any difference. i always used cam breakin compound on the rocker ***** before installing them.

R1234

Hello Chuck,
I hope your engine break in goes better that mine. Mine was a nightmare.
Starting from the rebuild to the break in, the engine in my car has been a source of agony. It's a long story. Did all the things that people here on the forum have a advised for a good break in.
Prelubed oil system, set timing and points, filled carburator bowls with gas for quickest cranking time. Engine cranked right up, went to break in cam engine started acting as if out of gas. Would only run if gas poured into carb.
Turns out new fuel pump was bad. After buying and installing new fuel pump.
Engine cranked right up and ran. Then the oil pressure at idle was only 12 lbs. Had to pull the oil pan and change out oil pump from a stock unit to a high pressure unit. Now oil pressure at idle is at 40 lbs. and climbs to about 55 at higher rpms. I just hope my cam has survived all this torture. :crazy:

JmpnJckFlsh

New fuel pump bad. That's also been one of my horror scenarios. I don't suppose there is any way to test one except to install it on a running engine and see it keeps up with the engine.

I have extrapolated this thought process on faulty parts and "infant mortality" of parts, and it gives me real concern about being able to start up and drive a fresh restoration without some kind of serious problem. There are so many untried new parts and rebuilt parts on a restoration that AT LEAST ONE, IF NOT SEVERAL, SERIOUS PROBLEMS HAS TO DEVELOP.

Somebody slap me, I'm losing nerve and I'm hysterical. :eek: :eek: :crazy: :crazy: :nonod:

Muttley

Don't the ZZ series engines have hydraulic roller cams? Does a roller require the same break-in procedure as a flat tappet cam?

clem zahrobsky

roller cams do not require a breakin like flat tappets because there is no friction involved. :chevy

JohnZ

The "quick fire-up" is essential with a flat-tappet cam because the lobes don't get pressurized oil (only the journals do); the lobes are lubricated by oil thrown from the rods. Just make sure you've got fuel in the float bowls to run it until the fuel pump fills the line, the initial timing is set as closely as possible so it'll start and stay running, and have a timing light hooked up and ready to go, a distributor wrench, and a screwdriver for the idle speed and mixture screws (and a fire extinguisher). You'll want to keep it running for 20 minutes or so at 2000-2200 rpm, and don't want to have to shut it down prematurely due to overheating, so make sure the cooling system is full (fill it through the thermostat housing, then top off at the radiator) and make sure you've got a box fan available in front of the grille to help the cooling if you need it. It goes a lot smoother with a helper, especially if you have a leak or two to deal with when it fires up - you can't be everywhere at once. Lay out the tools you might need for leaks close at hand (for rad hose clamps, fuel line fittings, etc.) ahead of time just in case. I've been through this 15-20 times over the years, mostly with the engine in a bare chassis before body drop, never had any problems; there will be an article I wrote on it in either the Spring or Summer edition of the "Restorer" magazine. A note on pre-lubing: don't just use a shaft in a drill, or you won't get pressurized oil to the lifters and up the pushrods to the rockers - use the right prime tool (Tavia and others make them, with a sliding collar at the top that plugs the lifter oil gallery openings so they pressurize).


[Modified by JohnZ, 9:37 PM 2/2/2002]

clem zahrobsky

they now have lifters that"pressureize" the oil feed to the lifter/ cam interface by a EDM .025 hole in the lifter face. back in the 60s when we had to run flat tappet cams because of racing rules i would grind a .003 deep flat on the side of the lifter from the oil groove to the base so to get oil sprayed onto the cam lobe when we ran very high spring pressure to get the RPM we needed. i had a surface grinder but not a EDM machine,i told mrs clem i needed a bigger racing budget!!! :D that went over like a fart in church


[Modified by clem zahrobsky, 9:59 PM 2/2/2002]

JmpnJckFlsh

Any tips on setting the initial timing? Intuitively, I would make sure both No. 1 valves weren't moving, set the damper mark on -6 deg (BTDC), mark the centerline position of the rotor terminal on the intake manifold after installing the distributor, and turn the distributor until the No. 1 cap terminal lined up with the rotor mark, and tighten the distributor clamp.

I guess we're also talking about using a feeler guage to set the point opening on the top of the distributor cam lobe until after you get it started and can fine tune it with a dwell meter?

Mac

Why do they use those wooden seats anyway? No wonder they call 'em pews!!

Let us know how things turned out, Chuck!!


[Modified by Mac, 9:59 PM 2/3/2002]

JohnZ

Chuck -

That method will get the timing fairly close (enough to start it), but you can also pre-set it right on the money. Make sure you have #1 at TDC, then turn the crank a bit until your damper index line is right on your desired static setting. Then put a test light across the points and turn the distributor clockwise (from the top view, vacuum can toward the firewall) until the light comes on (points closed); then turn it CCW, slowly, until the light just goes out (points opening), and lock it down. You'll be within one degree of your setting at the timing tab. One less thing to mess with after it fires up.

JmpnJckFlsh

Yowwwsuh!!!!....Thanks, John, that's too cool! :D :D :cheers: :smash:

GregP

Most of it's been covered, but here's my short list:

Prelube - use a special lube drive that includes the portion to close off the oil passages around the distributor (or just make your own from an old distributor). Spin the luber until you read oil pressure, then turn the crank SLOWLY ONE TURN. Some of the oil transfer passages will only line up when the crank is in the correct orientation. If you have pressure up and make a single slow turn you'll be sure to get oil into them all.

Timing - If you have points the "light" method is great. If it's a mag trigger, set the crank to 12 degrees initial (enough to assure it will start and idle) then turn the distributor until the "point" on the wheel is opposite the pickup.

Fuel - Said before but most important, fill the float bowls before you start to crank it. I use an old mustard squeeze bottle and back-fill through the vent (on a Holley). You can check that there is fuel by making sure the accelerator pump is pumping. I also usually give a small squeeze of fuel direct into the carb throat just before starting.

Carb - set to nominal settings, then I crank up the idle a couple of turns so I'm sure it will stay running without having to hold the throttle.

Observor - make sure you have someone else handy who can look for leaks etc while your manning the starter/throttle/checking oil pressure etc. I invarably find a water hose or something that needs an extra turn on the clamp or something.

Also, if it's a new automatic trans, be ready to dump in a quart of oil or two, as once it starts turning and pumping oil through the passages the level in the pan can drop quite a bit.

-Greg

bhawk

chuck--- ensure, as previous posters have noted, that you use a correct pre-lube tool to get oil to all passages. I made mine from an old distributor, and it worked well. YOu will see oil pump out of every hole at end of pushrod,depositing oil into rocker arm. Then you know your ready to fire. I can give more info on how to make one if you wish.
My bad experience in starting my rebuilt was because my thermostat failed to open. She overheated at about the 15 minute mark. I therefore recommend, test your thermostat in hot water before using it, or go without a thermostat for this breakin Also have a garden hose to spray on the rad if it seems to be overheating. I had the hose nearby, and sprayed the rad once she started to steam and I think I saved the motor. Works okay now, but when I removed thermostat it failed to open in boiling water. Good luck, seems scary, but nice feeling when its over, and she pures like a kitten.

JmpnJckFlsh

bhawk, thanks for the comments about the oil pump drive adapter and the thermostat. I bought a brand new Robertshaw performance thermostat. But, if I have to break open the thermostat housing to fill the engine with coolant, a quick test on the kitchen stove couldn't hurt.

I had previously bought a prelube drive adapter from High Tech Innovations, the specialty distributor people. It has a body that is machined to fit in the distributor hole just like a distributor housing. When I heard people talking about using an old distributor shaft to drive the oil pump, I thought I had wasted my money, but from John's, Greg's, and your comments, it now looks like a wise investment I just happened to make. Also, good advice for others. :D


[Modified by Chuck Sangerhausen, 1:59 PM 2/5/2002]